This is not really a ‘tipping point’. More of a ‘we’re holding your head underwater until you comply’ point.
87% of OEM sales.
Onlly 13% of afternarket.
All that shows is that retailers/shops are not putting rim-brake bikes on the sales floor.
The consumer doesn’t really have a choice, so duh, obviously disc sales will dominate.
We already knew this.
IMO, the more telling stat is that folks who already own functional bikes don’t really want this sh*t.
(13% are curious, lemmings, or are building-up a gravel bike.)
Actually…to be fair, I’m sure a big part of the low aftermarket %-age is because the stuff isn’t backwards compatible to the vast majority of existing bikes.
Also, like 98% of existing bikes are no disc bikes, so of course the aftermarket will not reflect the same % as the new market.
I’ve NEVER had to true a rotor on a mountain bike or my cross bike…ever. Not saying they can’t get bent, but I think that’s pretty remote.I’ve had to do it once or twice on my mountain bike, in about 2000 miles. It’s always stick getting jammed in there somewhere. On the road, it should be a non issue.
This is not really a ‘tipping point’. More of a ‘we’re holding your head underwater until you comply’ point.
87% of OEM sales.
Onlly 13% of afternarket.
All that shows is that retailers/shops are not putting rim-brake bikes on the sales floor.
The consumer doesn’t really have a choice, so duh, obviously disc sales will dominate.
We already knew this.
IMO, the more telling stat is that folks who already own functional bikes don’t really want this sh*t.
(13% are curious, lemmings, or are building-up a gravel bike.)
Actually…to be fair, I’m sure a big part of the low aftermarket %-age is because the stuff isn’t backwards compatible to the vast majority of existing bikes.
Also, like 98% of existing bikes are no disc bikes, so of course the aftermarket will not reflect the same % as the new market.
no need to sell your rim bike bike if your happy with it, but if you are buying new you would be dumb not to go disc at this point
Depends on the application…still.
If I was buying a TT/Tri or road racing bike, and my concern was the fastest setup possible? No way I’d buy a (separate braking) disc equipped bike.
However, if it was something I might want to throw some 30mm+ tires on and do some off-pavement exploring on? Disc might be the best solution…
Besides, if you’re commenting on my “lack of choice” statement above, the point isn’t about not being able to choose to keep what I have…the point is having a smaller (or no) selection to choose from if I’m looking for something new. There’s a difference.
I’ve done some pretty gnarly gravel on my aero road bike with 23C Conti 4000S tires but it beat the hell out of me.
I have been looking at a new aero road with hydraulic disc purely so I have an “all road” bike.
This is not really a ‘tipping point’. More of a ‘we’re holding your head underwater until you comply’ point.
87% of OEM sales.
Onlly 13% of afternarket.
All that shows is that retailers/shops are not putting rim-brake bikes on the sales floor.
The consumer doesn’t really have a choice, so duh, obviously disc sales will dominate.
We already knew this.
IMO, the more telling stat is that folks who already own functional bikes don’t really want this sh*t.
(13% are curious, lemmings, or are building-up a gravel bike.)
Actually…to be fair, I’m sure a big part of the low aftermarket %-age is because the stuff isn’t backwards compatible to the vast majority of existing bikes.
Also, like 98% of existing bikes are no disc bikes, so of course the aftermarket will not reflect the same % as the new market.
Shimano: "We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics. There is a good chance we will see disc eclipse rim brake in total sales in 2018.â€
SRAM: “For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales, Zellmann says, compared to 44 percent for model year 2017. (Model years are often a year ahead of the actual calendar. For example, SRAM sold MY2018 brakes during 2017.) Of those MY2018 sales, discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands, according to SRAM. For aftermarket sales, discs represented 13 percent of road bike sales.”
However, a huge percentage of OEM rim brake spec on SRAM and Shimano equipped bikes, especially the lower and mid range, is from Tektro and Promax…
I’ve done some pretty gnarly gravel on my aero road bike with 23C Conti 4000S tires but it beat the hell out of me.
I have been looking at a new aero road with hydraulic disc purely so I have an “all road” bike.
You can run ~28mm tires with most conventional, dual-pivot road brakes. You can run up to 40mm tires with road/cx linear pulls (TRP CX-8.4, CX-9, Tektro RX5, Paul’s Mini-V, etc.), most of which have excellent braking performance when set up properly. Rim brakes aren’t keeping you from running bigger tires on an all-road bike. Did I mention they’re also lighter, (generally) cheaper, easier to set up and maintain?
I wonder if this means it’s only a matter of time before UCI allows disc brakes for all road racing.
I’m not in a hurry to replace my ar5 but my next bike will more than likely have disc brakes. Or I just keep the felt for a handful of UCI races a year.
Tire clearance is definitely not something that (road) frame designers have been focused on in the last couple decades, since most people were using tires no bigger than 25mm until the last few years.
Shimano: "We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics. There is a good chance we will see disc eclipse rim brake in total sales in 2018.â€
SRAM: “For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales, Zellmann says, compared to 44 percent for model year 2017. (Model years are often a year ahead of the actual calendar. For example, SRAM sold MY2018 brakes during 2017.) Of those MY2018 sales, discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands, according to SRAM. For aftermarket sales, discs represented 13 percent of road bike sales.”
However, a huge percentage of OEM rim brake spec on SRAM and Shimano equipped bikes, especially the lower and mid range, is from Tektro and Promax…
Tire clearance is definitely not something that (road) frame designers have been focused on in the last couple decades, since most people were using tires no bigger than 25mm until the last few years.
Yup…lack of clearance on road frames is a fairly recent issue. My '86 Bianchi steel frame (and brakes!) can easily accommodate tires measuring ~28mm+ wide.
It’s funny…but all the current road brakes which everyone complains can’t fit 28mm wide tires are known as “short reach”. Older “standard reach” calipers can easily clear that.
I have done 20,000 km on disc brakes and I have never had to touch them yet. I do a bit more on my mtb, but you are not exactly smashing through rock gardens on your road bike, how the hell do you bend a road rotor outside a crash ?
Just bump it in transit or while hanging it up at home or have someone bump it while a group is stopped at a gas station. It doesn’t take much force to throw a throw a rotor out of true.
The only time I’ve knocked a rotor out of true was when I ran over my front wheel with my car.
I have done 20,000 km on disc brakes and I have never had to touch them yet. I do a bit more on my mtb, but you are not exactly smashing through rock gardens on your road bike, how the hell do you bend a road rotor outside a crash ?
Just bump it in transit or while hanging it up at home or have someone bump it while a group is stopped at a gas station. It doesn’t take much force to throw a throw a rotor out of true.
The only time I’ve knocked a rotor out of true was when I ran over my front wheel with my car.
There seem to be two distinct sets of experiences with rotors coming out of true, those who have it happen routinely, and those who don’t. I think there are some rotors that are untrue out of the box, or that develop a small problem under hard usage due to the heating up and cooling that happens (and often being used while they’re hot). Like a poorly built wheel that comes out of true just with the normal stress of riding.
Also, hydro calipers have very little pad clearance, even less than mechanical calipers from what I can tell. That’s going to make any tiny 1-2mm bend in the rotor result in rubbing.
So if you combine a hydro caliper with cheap rotors that are prone to bend under normal usage, you get a fairly high maintenance braking system. These are the things that I expect will be improved upon in the next several years as the road disc brake systems get more refined and user friendly. Who remembers trying to center road calipers (rim brake) in the days before Shimano dual-pivots? Huge PITA, and you’d still get rub from time to time. Eventually the components got more user friendly. Disc brake systems probably will as well.
“Shimano does not publicly share sales numbers…” “We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics”
So this could mean that there is a high demand that they can’t meet, or there is a really low demand…and they can’t meet it. Until they share some of the actual numbers, this statement doesn’t really mean anything.
“SRAM doesn’t share specific figures either…” “For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales compared to 44 percent for model year 2017.”
Without specifics, we don’t know for sure if this includes MTB and/or CX.
“discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands…” “for aftermarket sales, discs represented 13 percent of road bike sales.”
It should be noted that SRAM on OEM road bikes represents a very small sliver since Shimano dominates the OEM market for road. How often do you see a OEM road bike being offered with Red22 or Force22 rim brake these days as compared to DA or Ultegra rim brake? Also not sure if CX is considered “road” because SRAM has a much bigger market share in the OEM market there because of their 1x system. Again…need some specifics behind these numbers which for whatever reason each manufacturer is hiding. 87 percent seems like an awfully large number considering I know exactly zero people with SRAM hydraulic disc on a traditional road bike.
All this not to say road disc is or isn’t a good solution…just hate the way article writers pick and choose numbers that fit their agenda. If they had the specific numbers that would ultimately prove we have passed the “tipping point,” they would have provided them. They don’t…so instead they choose to present the numbers in a misleading way.
I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.
Oh, there will be fiddling. Trust me, there will be fiddling. So long as you want brakes that don’t pulse or squeak you’ll have to constantly true your rotors. I’m far from some lone voice in the desert on this issue.
What are you talking about? Constantly true your rotors? I ride tons of MTB/CX in gnarly conditions and rarely if ever need to true my rotors. I’m talking like once every two years or so. How often do you do it?
Complete rubbish. I have done two seasons of cyclocross and flown with the bike 5 times. Still on the original discs in both sets of wheels and never had one out of true.
I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.
Oh, there will be fiddling. Trust me, there will be fiddling. So long as you want brakes that don’t pulse or squeak you’ll have to constantly true your rotors. I’m far from some lone voice in the desert on this issue.
What are you talking about? Constantly true your rotors? I ride tons of MTB/CX in gnarly conditions and rarely if ever need to true my rotors. I’m talking like once every two years or so. How often do you do it?
Probably once every two months on my F-Si. Maybe TomA and myself have bad luck. Maybe my rotors are crap (Shimano XT “ice” or whatever).
I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.
Oh, there will be fiddling. Trust me, there will be fiddling. So long as you want brakes that don’t pulse or squeak you’ll have to constantly true your rotors. I’m far from some lone voice in the desert on this issue.
What are you talking about? Constantly true your rotors? I ride tons of MTB/CX in gnarly conditions and rarely if ever need to true my rotors. I’m talking like once every two years or so. How often do you do it?
Probably once every two months on my F-Si. Maybe TomA and myself have bad luck. Maybe my rotors are crap (Shimano XT “ice” or whatever).
Weird. I’ve got those same rotors in my hard tail and I don’t think I’ve ever had to true them. I’ve got the sram/avid rotors on my CX bike. I had to true them several times a few years ago, but got new ones with new wheels recently and haven’t trued since I got those new wheels (new for the 2016 CX season). Possibly just the luck of the draw on that. Or maybe I don’t ride hard enough.
I’ve got the TRP rotors on my Andean (because they came with the TRP brakes) and Shimano rotors on my road bike, and I haven’t trued those either. (Yes, all my bikes have disc, that was the main driver behind me buying the Andean a year ago).