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Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong?

 

   


Gator1736

Aug 8, 06 7:38

Post #1 of 21 (2394 views)
Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? Quote | Reply

So I come off the bike at Steelhead this year feeling great 3:03 into the race. I'm thinking I'm going to crush the run (for me) as that is my strongest discipline (did about a 1:37 last year). About a 1 1/2 miles in my hamstring starts cramping. Then I get a terrible case of slosh stomach. I try to relieve that at the portapotties with only minimal success. Then I feel very dehydrated and my calves start cramping. Then I just plain bonk.

Background. Consumed about 1-2 bottles of fluids/hr on the bike (I know that's low). Also went through about 4 gu's. At about mile 8 I started feeling very hungry so although not part of the plan, I ate 1/2 a banana (wouldn't have usually gone for solids in a HIM). Drank as much water and gatorade as possible at the aid stations on the run as I felt incredibly thirsty.

So, what happened? what causes slosh stomach? Too much fluid or not enough? Give me your best diagnosis.


MOP_Mike

Aug 8, 06 7:45

Post #2 of 21 (2373 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm not a nutrition expert by any means, so keep your BS meters running....

But, I've heard that low electrolyte intake causes both of your symptoms -- cramps and slosh stomach. When the sodium level in your gut gets too low, the osmosis in your stomach stops and you can't absorb fluids any more. The trick is to keep electrolytes up before this happens.



"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.


desert dude

Aug 8, 06 7:46

Post #3 of 21 (2371 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

what was in the bottles? were you doing gatorade + gels at the same time?


Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching :: @accelerate3 :: Like us on Facebook
AeroCamp 3.0 Carson (LA area) Velodrome Feb 28-Mar 1. PM for more info.


Gator1736

Aug 8, 06 7:49

Post #4 of 21 (2360 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [desert dude] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yes. Is that bad? I've done it a million time before and never had a problem.


(This post was edited by Gator1736 on Aug 8, 06 7:58)


Scott McMillan

Aug 8, 06 7:54

Post #5 of 21 (2341 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Low water = dehydration = stomach problems and predisposes you to cramping.

If you drink enough water, then you won't have problems with the concentrations of your drinks and therefore your gut will keep working. Take salt whenever you take water to aid with hydration.

Remember that cramping is also related to pacing mistakes and/or lack of race specific fitness.



Cheers,

Scott

http://www.bluemoosecoach.com

------
Scott McMillan, M.Sc
Twitter@Factor9Coaching | Factor9Coaching.com | Facebook


chainpin

Aug 8, 06 8:02

Post #6 of 21 (2314 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

How was your hydration going into this race? Did you take in enough water with your carbo loading regimen--assuming you loaded at all? As a general rule of thumb, I avoid Gatorpiss at all costs due to mixing issues at the water stops. If I resort to coke in a race at least I know what I'm taking in and can adjust accordingly. Gatorade is also just sugar, but too much can mess with your stomach, especially if your downing Gu's too. One other question what is your technique for eating GU?


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



Kevin in MD

Aug 8, 06 8:05

Post #7 of 21 (2303 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [skm] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Slosh stomach mostly related to exertion. It takes a bit to realize that in many cases your rate of absorption through your stomach is actually the limiter in half and ironman racing. In shorter races the limters are muscular or related to muscular pH, so it is a shock to the ego to find in longer races t is not the case.


desert dude

Aug 8, 06 8:06

Post #8 of 21 (2292 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

rule of thumb, gel + water OR gatorade/sports drink/soda.


Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching :: @accelerate3 :: Like us on Facebook
AeroCamp 3.0 Carson (LA area) Velodrome Feb 28-Mar 1. PM for more info.


reggiedog

Aug 8, 06 8:17

Post #9 of 21 (2252 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Classic stomach "shutting down". I think slowman has a good article on it somewhere on the site. Cause is usually exertion and the only solution is 'stand down'.

While nututrition make-up/content is always very personal, my favorite motto is: "Stomach shut down is your body telling you your pace is too fast."


gavnunns

Aug 8, 06 8:21

Post #10 of 21 (2242 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I would put money on Low electrolyte levels as the primary cause. Salt tablets save my race at steelhead big time, helped me process water and prevent some nasty cramps that started to set in on the run.

One mistake I made was going from Heed (complex sugars) to Gatoraid (simple sugars) made me feel prety crapy in the middle of the bike.

---------------------------
http://www.nunnsontherun.com


ride 'em

Aug 8, 06 8:31

Post #11 of 21 (2227 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think it could be too high a concentration of calories (gu + gatorade) and/or lack of electrolytes. Sounds like you are getting the fluids in, but then they are just not getting processed. So they slosh in the stomach and do not relieve thirst or hunger. It'll probably take some trial & error to figure out which of the two (or combo) will help you.


----
Suffering on the the bike is always more fun than suffering on the run.


desert dude

Aug 8, 06 8:53

Post #12 of 21 (2193 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [reggiedog] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
"Stomach shut down is your body telling you your pace is too fast."
Or that your mix is too strong, or you are ingesting too much. Going fast and taking in a good number of calories are not mutally exclusive.


Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching :: @accelerate3 :: Like us on Facebook
AeroCamp 3.0 Carson (LA area) Velodrome Feb 28-Mar 1. PM for more info.


reggiedog

Aug 8, 06 9:00

Post #13 of 21 (2171 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [desert dude] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

dude, I am not thinking 4 gels, 3 bottles of water, and a banana in 2.5 hours plus some gatorade being too strong a concentration by any means.


Gator1736

Aug 8, 06 9:02

Post #14 of 21 (2160 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [desert dude] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I certainly didn't feel like I was pushing too hard. I hadn't really tapered much that week as Steelhead was really more of a glorified training day for IMOO and it had been very hot here, so perhaps there was some lingering dehydration? Maybe in my attempt to make up for it at the last minute I drank too much. I have never taken salt tabs and, as far as I know, never suffered from it. However, I will definitely try mixing it up a bit on my next long training day. I'll try salt tabs, gu and water (no gatorade). I need to get this nailed before IMOO.


CCF

Aug 8, 06 9:10

Post #15 of 21 (2134 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I certainly didn't feel like I was pushing too hard. I hadn't really tapered much that week as Steelhead was really more of a glorified training day for IMOO and it had been very hot here, so perhaps there was some lingering dehydration? Maybe in my attempt to make up for it at the last minute I drank too much. I have never taken salt tabs and, as far as I know, never suffered from it. However, I will definitely try mixing it up a bit on my next long training day. I'll try salt tabs, gu and water (no gatorade). I need to get this nailed before IMOO.


I was in the exact same boat last summer before my first IM in Wisconsin. I had never taken a salt pill, and I didn't think I needed to. I was wrong. Start taking them. If it's hot in Madison (and you know it will be), you will need to take some on the bike and the run unless you basically don't sweat.

-C

------------------------------------------------------------
Sworn enemy of the Cylons, the Dalek, and all the citizens of Gilder.


Gator1736

Aug 8, 06 9:20

Post #16 of 21 (2107 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [CCF] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

[reply][reply]
If it's hot in Madison (and you know it will be), you will need to take some on the bike and the run unless you basically don't sweat.

-C[/reply]

Oh, I sweat, boy do I ever—a ridiculous amount actually. I think I read somewhere that if you have very salty sweat (which I do) you weren't supposed to load up on the salt pills as the salty sweat was a sign that your body had enough. Sounds like I've been reading the wrong crap.


Trichiquita

Aug 8, 06 9:25

Post #17 of 21 (2094 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I certainly didn't feel like I was pushing too hard. I hadn't really tapered much that week as Steelhead was really more of a glorified training day for IMOO and it had been very hot here, so perhaps there was some lingering dehydration? Maybe in my attempt to make up for it at the last minute I drank too much. I have never taken salt tabs and, as far as I know, never suffered from it. However, I will definitely try mixing it up a bit on my next long training day. I'll try salt tabs, gu and water (no gatorade). I need to get this nailed before IMOO.
Temperature of the fluids can also be a factor. I generally have better success avoiding 'slosh stomach' if I have cold drinks rather than the warmer fluids usually available at the aid stations.


CCF

Aug 8, 06 9:33

Post #18 of 21 (2068 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Trichiquita] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I certainly didn't feel like I was pushing too hard. I hadn't really tapered much that week as Steelhead was really more of a glorified training day for IMOO and it had been very hot here, so perhaps there was some lingering dehydration? Maybe in my attempt to make up for it at the last minute I drank too much. I have never taken salt tabs and, as far as I know, never suffered from it. However, I will definitely try mixing it up a bit on my next long training day. I'll try salt tabs, gu and water (no gatorade). I need to get this nailed before IMOO.
Temperature of the fluids can also be a factor. I generally have better success avoiding 'slosh stomach' if I have cold drinks rather than the warmer fluids usually available at the aid stations.


Totally true, but where do you get a cold drink at mile 85 of an ironman?

-C

------------------------------------------------------------
Sworn enemy of the Cylons, the Dalek, and all the citizens of Gilder.


MOP_Mike

Aug 8, 06 9:42

Post #19 of 21 (2041 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [CCF] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

>> Totally true, but where do you get a cold drink at mile 85 of an ironman?

http://www.maxchill.com/

Keep your fuel in here and "recharge" it every 90 minutes or so at an aid station -- it'll keep your drink cold all day!



"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.


immyfish

Aug 8, 06 10:33

Post #20 of 21 (1986 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here's Dan's article on this:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/coachcorn/racefuel.html
Very interesting.


Scott McMillan

Aug 8, 06 16:40

Post #21 of 21 (1893 views)
Re: Slosh stomach, calories, dehydration and bonking; what went wrong? [Gator1736] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
[reply][reply]
If it's hot in Madison (and you know it will be), you will need to take some on the bike and the run unless you basically don't sweat.

-C[/reply]

Oh, I sweat, boy do I ever—a ridiculous amount actually. I think I read somewhere that if you have very salty sweat (which I do) you weren't supposed to load up on the salt pills as the salty sweat was a sign that your body had enough. Sounds like I've been reading the wrong crap.


Hi there,

Before IM Moo (which is notoriously hot and humid). I would have figured out:

1. How much you sweat by measuring your wt loss before and after workouts in the heat. Sweat a lot? Likely need over 40 ounces per hour.

2. GET ON THE SALT! If you sweat a lot then you likely need a lot. The salt also helps absorb the water you are drinking. Otherwise you lose a lot to pee.

3. Again, if you take in a lot of water, you don't have to worry about the amount of calories/salt (well, at least 400 calories/hr on the bike won't be too much and 200-250/hr on the run) you take in b/c it well be very diluted (low osmolality). Unless you are having steak and eggs.

4. Get used to drinking and eating a lot. Can only do this in training.

------
Scott McMillan, M.Sc
Twitter@Factor9Coaching | Factor9Coaching.com | Facebook

   
 
 
 



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