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Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri?

 

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PaulC

Aug 16, 05 10:04

Post #1 of 57 (4845 views)
Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? Quote | Reply

Gidday Slowtwitchers,

What's the fastest ever run split in an olympic distance triathlon? Chris Emme (a x-country runner from Stanford) put in a 31:02 at the Folsom International Triathlon in California last weekend. That's exactly 5 minutes per mile.

Announcer Brad Kearns mentioned that Simon Whitfield ran faster at Sydney to claim gold. Does anyone know of any faster runs in an olympic distance tri?

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t2k

Aug 16, 05 10:08

Post #2 of 57 (4819 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

check out the splits for the London triathlon. ridiculously short course i am guessing....


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h2ofun

Aug 16, 05 10:21

Post #3 of 57 (4780 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I heard Brad make these comments on Sunday. I could not believe it!! Wasnt like the run course is totally flat either. I was wondering the same question.



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Allan

Aug 16, 05 10:38

Post #4 of 57 (4736 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It is impossible to tell since the accuracy of many "10k" legs of triathlons can vary significantly. I remember the Guelph course in Ontario was alway listed as 10k (they now advertise as 9.5k which is closer). I ran 31:15 there my first time racing. The km splits were pretty accurate up to 9k and I still remember looking at my watch and laughing since I covered the final "km" in around 2:00. I also remeber hearing people talking about how fit they must be getting since they ran faster at the end of a tri than they normally do in a 10k road race :)


marcusgeorge

Aug 16, 05 10:47

Post #5 of 57 (4684 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
Chris Emme (a x-country runner from Stanford) put in a 31:02 at the Folsom International Triathlon in California last weekend. That's exactly 5 minutes per mile.
Chris Emme passed me with about 200 meters to go on the run at Folsom. He was moving! I suppose trying to out-kick someone that fast would have been an exercise in futility. The funny thing was we came out of water at exactly the same time and finished in nearly the exact same time.

--Marcus George
UCLA Triathlon
http://www.triathlon.ucla.edu/


OT in CA

Aug 16, 05 11:38

Post #6 of 57 (4557 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [marcusgeorge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Well, one look at the splits makes it clear he hasn't worked on or had much experience with transitions. He gave up 1:30 to you right there...

The run course was legit (the swim was damn long though)...Kevin Kennedy remarked how startlingly fast that Emme went by him.

ot


marcusgeorge

Aug 16, 05 11:43

Post #7 of 57 (4527 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [OT in CA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
Well, one look at the splits makes it clear he hasn't worked on or had much experience with transitions. He gave up 1:30 to you right there...


The announcer said it was his first triathlon. They probably don't give you much time to practice such things when you run for Stanford...

--Marcus George
UCLA Triathlon
http://www.triathlon.ucla.edu/


G-man

Aug 16, 05 11:57

Post #8 of 57 (4486 views)
Accurate course? [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Pretty tough to tell as sometimes courses vary and older races incurred T2 in the run split. I would guess 30 and high change? I am just thinking that in the old Desert Princess series there were 5 or six guys running 30-31 min splits Souza, Molina, Allen. Christian Bustos has run around 30 flat for a 10 k. I don't think there will ever be an established "fastest" time that I would be 100% convinced on in a tri split.


Cousin Elwood

Aug 16, 05 13:58

Post #9 of 57 (4378 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [OT in CA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That was not only his first tri ever, it was also the first time he swam in a wetsuit. Not bad for a rookie...

I didn't realize there were so many STers there...

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Flanagan

Aug 16, 05 14:44

Post #10 of 57 (4327 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

   



Class Rank Class First Name Last Name Sex Swim Swim Rank Trans1 Bike Bike Rank MPH Trans2 Run Run Rank Pace Final Overall Rank 1/26 M PRO CONRAD STOLTZ M 00:21:57 2 00:00:14 00:54:22 1 27.3 00:00:18 00:31:28 3 00:05:04 01:48:21 1/39 2/26 M PRO GREG BENNETT M 00:21:47 1 00:00:13 00:57:04 7 26.0 00:00:14 00:30:01 1 00:04:50 01:49:21 2/39 3/26 M PRO MARC LEES M 00:22:20 10 00:00:16 00:56:26 4 26.3 00:00:18 00:31:03 2 00:05:00 01:50:26 3/39



Chicago Triathlon 2001. 30:01 is ridiculous, and he didn't even win.


Rappstar

Aug 16, 05 15:29

Post #11 of 57 (4273 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Bevan Docherty, Hunter Kemper, Tim Don, and some others have all run in the 29:30-range during races. Problem is, there is no way to know if that is legit or not in terms of being EXACTLY 10K. And that is for ITU races, usually ones with a very flat bike course. Not sure what the fastest non-drafting 10K is.

You have to remember, distances are VERY suspect in triathlon. So that 31:02 might have been 31:02 or it might have been like 33:02. No way to know... It is sad, because I think this is one of the things that is somewhat shameful to triathlon as a whole. I understand why it happens (connecting three loops of exact distance is very hard, even with long transitions), but it is still unfortunate.


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OT in CA

Aug 16, 05 15:35

Post #12 of 57 (4248 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think the RD said this guy posted a 13:40(?) 5k at the end of the Stanfurd track season. I *might* be able to keep up with him on the run leg...if I'm on my bike. ;)

ot


Lew Kidder

Aug 16, 05 15:37

Post #13 of 57 (4243 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

29:54 for Bevan Docherty and 29:56 for Ivan Rana at 2004 ITU Worlds in Madeira. All the stars were aligned: big race (for which people tapered), Olympic year (when the best were peaking), extremely competitive field, high stakes (several teams, including the U.S., were using the race as an Olympic qualifier), major prize money ($160,000 overall, plus major bonus money from sponsors and national feds), sunny, cool, virtually no wind, huge pack on the bike, shortish bike course. I can't be sure about measurement of the run course itself - but they had used the same run course for several world cups in previous years and the women's splits were spot on for what those women had been doing at a number of other world cup races during 2005.
Lew


Rappstar

Aug 16, 05 15:40

Post #14 of 57 (4229 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [OT in CA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm sure this guy could run a 31:02. The point is, with triathlon, you just don't know. Especially for a guy who is doing his very first tri, it is entirely possible that he would run significantly slower than his XC/Track times. Even if the run was a hair short, that is still a smoking time, especially for a first tri. My point was only that 10K in a tri is RARELY 6.22 miles... I did not mean to discredit this fellow's run in any way. My answer was more, with regard to the *fastest* triathlon 10K, it is almost impossible to say, since the courses, in general, are not very accurate...


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ajm44

Aug 16, 05 15:52

Post #15 of 57 (4213 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If people are really running sub 30 10K's, then they are in the wrong sport. I know it is possible (ie Mottram started as a triathlete) but, realistically, 29's can be lowered alot with focused run training only and no swim or run before the race. Considering Meb and Abdi as well as the other top US runners aren't running much faster than 28, these people running splits that fast could be making a killing on the road circuit.





Go Faster


Rappstar

Aug 16, 05 16:00

Post #16 of 57 (4200 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [ajm44] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That's debatable. They already are doing LOTS of focused run traning. They are running those kind of times at the top of their game (these guys are not the "newbies" on the ITU circuit). And they are running them in races where the swim/bike portion is *somewhat* easier (i.e. they are sitting more in the draft and not blitzing the 40K). They are also, quite possibly, running them on slightly shortened courses. All those guys I mentioned can definitely go mid-to-low 29's on a track if they train specifically for a 10K. But they are all tremendously efficient at all three sports, so there is not as much upside potential as for an age-group athlete. They don't run much faster not-off-the-bike than they do off-the-bike.

Plus, Meb didn't win an Olympic medal in the 10K. And he has never won a 10K world championship. Simon Whitfield is a great runner, but he would not win a gold on the track. But he did in triathlon. That also counts for a lot.

And all those guys that I mentioned are also multiple world-cup winners. The money for a top-level triathlete who is consistently winning world cups is probably on par and maybe even better than for a mid-level road circuit runner.


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ajm44

Aug 16, 05 16:10

Post #17 of 57 (4181 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think you might have misunderstood me, I am agreeing with you. I was insinuating that the runs are definitely shorter than 10K. While there is absolutely no doubt these guys are legit, those times are comparable to a much more than mid level road racer.





Go Faster


BMANX

Aug 16, 05 16:32

Post #18 of 57 (4156 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [ajm44] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I remember Simon Whitfield being interviewed and saying that he and Greg Bennett wanted to try to break 30 minutes in an olympic distance triathlon. I believe he said that no one had done that yet on a measured course.


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Tribato

Aug 16, 05 21:59

Post #19 of 57 (4057 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

As previously stated, run courses in tri are suspect at best. That being said, Greg Welch was a member of the Aussie Junior National XC team and had (assuming the were legit courses) more than a few run splits that were high 29 minutes. If I recall correctly Mark Allen ran sub 30 at the SD Intl Tri about 13 years ago. While not tri, Benjamin Paredes of Mexico was a 2:16 marathoner and did a few duathalons where he posted 10k times that were 30 flat.

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paulthomas

Aug 17, 05 11:24

Post #20 of 57 (3902 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [PaulC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

This is something that I often wonder....I do think most of those ITU run legs must be short. When I see mid 29's, I wonder why these guys cxan not run thaty fast in an open 10k. Can the swim/bike warm one up for their best 10k? If so, Ritzenheim should invest in a bike and some goggles before he is off to his next 10k.

My guess is that some of these race directors like fast times on their courses.

In 1999 I ran 15:27 for a 5k at the end of a Dannon Race. The course was not long or short. I felt like Superman that day. If these guys are running double the distance, at 15 sec/mi faster, please let me bow down.

When I asked Simon Lessing what he can run for an open 10K, I was surprised to hear him say mid 30's. He also said the 29 min runs off the bike are bunk.

The real question is, what will Souza run for his 30k in Zofingen?!


Lew Kidder

Aug 17, 05 13:01

Post #21 of 57 (3814 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [paulthomas] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

With all due respect, Simon L. hasn't been the gold standard for Olympic distance run speed since the late 1990's. Dmitri Gaag, Peter Robertson, Ivan Rana, Simon Whitfield, Bevan Docherty (who together have won five of the last six worlds, plus a gold and a silver in the Olympics) are all significantly faster runners than Mr. Lessing ever was. I don't know their pr's for 10,000 meters fresh - but I'll wager that nearly all of them are capable of 28:xx. [That's not unheard of for a triathlete, by the way - if I remember correctly, Harald Robinson (4th at the 1991 worlds) ran 28:xx while on the track team at Cornell.]

The appearance of these burners has coincided with triathlon's admittance to the Olympic Games. As Sydney approached, the quality (and quantity of quality) of athlete entering ITU racing escalated by multiples. This should have been no surprise, of course - the Olympic dream (and the money that often comes with realization of the dream) has been a powerful stimulant in nearly all of its member sports.

The woman I coach is a good example. She entered the sport in 1999, having run very little in the first 29 years of her life - and having never even owned a bicycle. But she did have an olympic engine and the body-in-space control of a gymnast - and after five years of training, clocked a legit 33:40 at the 2004 Toyota Runners Classic at Disneyworld (beating one of the four invited runners and nearly catching two more). I think she had the potential to go 32:xx fresh - but age and injury and other ambitions are going to get in the way.

Sheila is but an example of the quality of athlete attracted to triathlon by the Olympic dream - but even better ones are on the way. IMO, the new group of Aussie women (very young Aussie women) have significantly more potential than anything the sport has experienced thus far.
Lew


BottomFeeder

Aug 17, 05 13:19

Post #22 of 57 (3785 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Lew Kidder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Lew, just out of curiosity, what did Sheila run in 1999?

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Lew Kidder

Aug 17, 05 13:50

Post #23 of 57 (3737 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [BottomFeeder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Actually, her very first running race, after just a few weeks of training, was the 10K on July 4, 1998, at Whitmore Lake, Michigan. To hear her recount, "I went out fast and died like a dog". Time was near 42 minutes. In her first year of triathlon (1999), she had a couple of 38's, some that were slower, and one where she passed out in the heat (St. Anthony's). In September, however, she ran 36:xx while winning The Triathlon at Pacific Grove.
Lew


BottomFeeder

Aug 17, 05 14:02

Post #24 of 57 (3704 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Lew Kidder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

From 42:xx to 33:xx in five short years is stupendous progress, especially later in life.

I remember chatting with her on one of the group rides in Orlando last summer about her running. She said there was a long period she wasn't able to run more than ~25 mpw due to injuries. Not many people can claim that kind of progress on that kind of mileage. She must have been well coached. :-)

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klehner

Aug 17, 05 14:03

Post #25 of 57 (3698 views)
Re: Fastest ever run split in an olympic distance tri? [Lew Kidder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
[.That's not unheard of for a triathlete, by the way - if I remember correctly, Harald Robinson (4th at the 1991 worlds) ran 28:xx while on the track team at Cornell.]


Considering that the Cornell school record is 29:00, I think you don't remember correctly.

Ken "Class of '80" Lehner

P.S. I was a teammate of Pfitzinger when he missed the school record by :04 (29:23).
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