Symptoms of being too far forward?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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Symptoms of being too far forward?

EvenOlder

Jul 24, 12 8:29

Post #1 of 17 (1618 views)

Symptoms of being too far forward?	Quote \| Reply

Any personal experiences with being too far forward on the bike? (Ie, STAs going past 78*)
I've read some vague "it's not good" statements, but nothing too concrete.
What are some things I should note that let me know I've passed the line going forward?

Thanks,
steve

tigerpaws

Jul 24, 12 8:32

Post #2 of 17 (1608 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [EvenOlder] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Falling off the front feeling, at least until I got on an Adamo and got my pelvis stable.

(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Oct 22, 12 4:08)

Rappstar

Jul 24, 12 8:57

Post #3 of 17 (1545 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [EvenOlder] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Generally, it's one (or several) of the following:

- too much weight on the forearms/elbows. interestingly, people describe it as "too much weight on the shoulders," which is weird because there's no actual weight on the shoulders. But what they mean is that the upper back / neck / shoulders are supporting to much load to stabilize and support the upper body.

- hip angle is too open. You can't get low enough and still actually see up the road to get an appropriate hip angle

- can't see up the road because you need to get too low (sort of like above)

- a sense of "falling" or "tipping over the front wheel."

- a sense of no support from your saddle (because you have too little weight on it)

- on the road, you have a lack of control because the front wheel is "stuck" with a ton of weight, making it hard to steer, and the rear doesn't have enough, so it seems as if it will wash out

Big

Jul 24, 12 9:39

Post #4 of 17 (1456 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Rappstar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

"- hip angle is too open. You can't get low enough and still actually see up the road to get an appropriate hip angle"

^^^^^

This is one of the biggest issues I see with a lot of the TT bike fits I see (especially with less experienced riders who don't have a good feel for their body and how it generates force/power)...Sometimes riders notice a significant problem trying to generate power, because they are too steep for the amount of drop (how low) they should be riding...Really foward + non-rotated pelvis = a lot of stress on the quads and potential anterior knee pain...

Often, riders try to remedy this with raising there seat too high...

brider

Jul 24, 12 9:41

Post #5 of 17 (1450 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Rappstar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Rappstar wrote:

- on the road, you have a lack of control because the front wheel is "stuck" with a ton of weight, making it hard to steer, and the rear doesn't have enough, so it seems as if it will wash out

Seems to me this is a shortfall of the frame design, not the rider position. If this is the only symptom (which I've run into), then it's clear to me that the front-center needs to be longer, and the chainstays shorter. My case-in-point for the need for 650 wheels.
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"People are always envious of those who are richer or those who are fitter, yet they are unwilling to do the same work as those who they choose to shoot down. " devashish_paul

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AndrewSaar

Jul 24, 12 9:47

Post #6 of 17 (1428 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [brider] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Ummmmm...the best designed frame on the planet can be ruined by someone putting a HUGE stem on it and planting all of their weight over the front wheel. Where the heck did the frame design come into play on this?

-Andrew Saar
It is better to do the right thing and be paid poorly,
than to do the wrong thing and be rewarded richly.

brider

Jul 24, 12 9:56

Post #7 of 17 (1404 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [AndrewSaar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

AndrewSaar wrote:

Exactly. Some people ride slack, some very steep. They won't fit on the same frame. I had to search long and hard to find a frame that had good geometry/weight balance for riding at 82 degrees.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"People are always envious of those who are richer or those who are fitter, yet they are unwilling to do the same work as those who they choose to shoot down. " devashish_paul

http://www.bridersplace.com/
http://www.luckycausesports.org/

EvenOlder

Jul 24, 12 10:03

Post #8 of 17 (1381 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Big] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Big wrote:

...Really foward + non-rotated pelvis = a lot of stress on the quads and potential anterior knee pain...

This is what I don't understand. I went to a 120mm stem (From 90mm), then slid the seat forward 3cm, then reset the BB-Saddle height to be the same, no other changes. I feel more comfortable on the bike now, and my times have remained the same. I don't feel unbalanced.
BUT-
Just at the lower edge of my kneecap, it's a little sore after riding, only if I palpate it, and it's gone in the morning. This is for two rides following the stem change.

So I'm wondering if it's just a getting used to it, or if I should slide the seat back a cm or two (Can you be too stretched out?)

Thanks for all the responses,
steve

morey000

Jul 24, 12 10:12

Post #9 of 17 (1355 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [EvenOlder] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tighter positioning seems to be the new name of the game.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...riathletes_1603.html

Big

Jul 24, 12 10:21

Post #10 of 17 (1337 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [EvenOlder] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yes, you can be too far stretched out, but this wouldn't be the issue with respect to knee pain (at least directly)...The issue here is cycling mechanics. If your pelvis doesn't rotate foward to allow you to rotate around the bottom bracket then you will get anteroir knee pain if you are too steep (proportionetely)...

Without seeing any video it is really hard to help, but if we are talking about pelvic tilt and riding with respect to effective seat tube angle (steepness)...going longer in the front and moving your seat forward probably just gave you the same position (pelvic/tilt) but in a more forward postioning which probably made your cycling mechnics worse (ability to generate power/force properly).

Typically the move to make for pelvis rotation would be to go down in front....and stay more compact...You would only go longer if you were not comfortable once you got your saddle postion/height dialed in first optimal power...With that said though...your pelvis won't rotate unless is aloud to...simply going lower or longer may make things worse if your saddle is uncomfortable and won't allow for it...Your body will try to sit up more and curl back to avoid soft tissue pressure....

Again, back to the original problem...people move there seats forward for comfort not to actually rotate around bottom bracket (get low)...by moving seat more underneath them and making/keeping pelvis more upright....

and not that you need to be really low (not what I am saying because some of the other factors listed above posts will come into play as well)...just that everything has to move proportionetely (sp?) together

EvenOlder

Jul 24, 12 10:30

Post #11 of 17 (1307 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Big] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Big wrote:

...going longer in the front and moving your seat forward probably just gave you the same position (pelvic/tilt) but in a more forward postioning which probably made your cycling mechnics worse (ability to generate power/force properly).

Thanks! That's my aha moment, the pelvic tilt. I'm on an Adamo Road saddle, so I should be able to tilt, I just need to check that out now. I feel better in my new position, i'll pay attention to the tilt as I move the saddle back/forward.
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
steve

DamonHenry

Jul 24, 12 11:31

Post #12 of 17 (1232 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Rappstar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Complaints of digestion issues, and food returns?

tigerpaws

Oct 10, 12 15:53

Post #13 of 17 (861 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Big] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Do you feel the more ones pelvis rotates forward the steeper they feel they want to ride?

(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Nov 2, 12 4:49)

FuryUs

Oct 10, 12 16:08

Post #14 of 17 (824 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [morey000] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

morey000 wrote:

Tighter positioning seems to be the new name of the game.

That's what she said...

(This post was edited by FuryUs on Oct 10, 12 16:38)

Rambler

Oct 11, 12 7:37

Post #15 of 17 (638 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [EvenOlder] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I seem to remember a few bike with near 90 degree STA back in the 1980's or so. I wonder what issues riders had with them?

nightfend

Oct 11, 12 10:55

Post #16 of 17 (521 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [Rambler] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Bike handling really suffers as you put more and more weight on the front of the bike. Cornering in the wet while riding so heavily weighted towards the front of the bike is just asking for your wheels to slide out.

TriTrev

Oct 11, 12 11:19

Post #17 of 17 (459 views)

Re: Symptoms of being too far forward? [nightfend] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

nightfend wrote:

Totally....and thats why Triathletes get laughed at by roadies for our lack of riding skills.......when you are cornering in the wet, just slide back on your saddle, putting more weight over the rear tire, the whole bike feels more solid.....but oh no, that would mean actually going out in the rain, rather than riding on the trainer.....real cold around freezing, I understand.

I was at a big H.I.M. a few years ago when not 1, but 3 guys took there bikes off the 6 person bike rack that I was on, because they "don't ride in the rain" (add a few swear words).........it actually stopped raining during the swim, and the roads were totally dry within 2 hours....I figured that each guy was out about $1000 covering entry fees, hotels, travel costs, etc.

To the OP....my 2 cents, you are too forward if your power decreases, or your knees scream for mercy
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