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Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 5:48

Post #1 of 21 (1250 views)

Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions	Quote \| Reply

So I think I need a new chain. Measured the links and I think its time.

few questions:

1) Is there such a thing as an inferior chain? If I get a Shimano Ultegra chain, am I missing out on anything? Which chain comes with the P1 stock? The CN-6701?
2) I think I need a new cassette because the chain might have stretched too bad. How is a Shimano Ultegra 6600 (12-25)? Similar to my previous question am I really missing out on anything going with the stock Cervelo P1 part? Or do I need a new cassette? It's 2 years old.
3) Is it absolutely necessary to replace the big and small chainring if I replace the chain? How about the rear sprockets? They don't appear to be worn too badly.

Edit: I am not sure I know what I am doing. A Shimano Ultegra 6600 (12-25) - that's a 10 speed right? Do they even make these anymore? Am I missing something?

OR

Do I just need to clean my chain? I've never cleaned it before. 2500 miles or so. Just put lube in it every once in a while

(This post was edited by Cervelo Apple on Jul 24, 12 6:00)

GREG_n_SD

Jul 24, 12 6:06

Post #2 of 21 (1217 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cervelo Apple wrote:

So I think I need a new chain. Measured the links and I think its time.

few questions:

1) Is there such a thing as an inferior chain? If I get a Shimano Ultegra chain, am I missing out on anything? Which chain comes with the P1 stock? The CN-6701?
2) I think I need a new cassette because the chain might have stretched too bad. How is a Shimano Ultegra 6600 (12-25)? Similar to my previous question am I really missing out on anything going with the stock Cervelo P1 part?
3) Is it absolutely necessary to replace the big and small chainring if I replace the chain? How about the rear sprockets? They don't appear to be worn too badly.

Edit: I am not sure I know what I am doing. A Shimano Ultegra 6600 (12-25) - that's a 10 speed right? Do they even make these anymore? Am I missing something?

Yes some chains are better than others but it all really comes down to personal preference. Pretty much every manufacturer recommends running their chains with their components, but I've had luck running pretty much any compatible chain with others (i.e. SRAM 10 with Shimano 10 etc, KMC with either as well as Campy).

My recommendation is get a KMC 10 speed chain, they have good durability and come with a quick link which makes them easy to install.

Try the new chain out on your old cassette, if it skips you'll need a new cassette. It is very unlikely that you will need new rings.

In regards to cassettes, 6600 is the older version of Ultegra 10sp but nothing wrong with it.

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Brushman

Jul 24, 12 6:07

Post #3 of 21 (1216 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

1. Shimano Ultegra chain is good.
2. Cassette and chain "wear" together, that is, they should be replaced at the same time. Mileage/wear is the determinant, not time.
3. Front chain rings only replaced upon inspection (not as often as cassette and chain).

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 6:15

Post #4 of 21 (1203 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Brushman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Brushman wrote:

Shimano Ultegra 6600 chain - is that essentially the "default" chain? Where as the 6700 is the newer version?

Brushman

Jul 24, 12 6:19

Post #5 of 21 (1192 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cervelo Apple wrote:

Shimano Ultegra 6600 chain - is that essentially the "default" chain? Where as the 6700 is the newer version?

Correct - 6700 is the "newer" version - I can't tell a difference.

tigerpaws

Jul 24, 12 6:22

Post #6 of 21 (1182 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Since KMC is has been the OEM chain supplier to Shimano since the mid 80's you can feel good about buying one and passing on Shimano....that is unless you just like lighting money on fire;)

As was mentioned KMC is great and it comes with a quick link which is so much nicer compared to that stupid pin setup Shimano likes so they can create another revenue stream only they can fill.

Also maybe pick up a 'go no go' chain checker as that is the quickest and easiest way to find an out of spec chain. Skipping chains can be 2 clicks on a barrel adjuster.

(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Jul 24, 12 6:30)

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 6:25

Post #7 of 21 (1178 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Brushman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Brushman wrote:

Cervelo Apple wrote:

Shimano Ultegra 6600 chain - is that essentially the "default" chain? Where as the 6700 is the newer version?

Correct - 6700 is the "newer" version - I can't tell a difference.

And does the same thing apply to the cassette? I see a "6700" vs "6600".

What about the gear ratio? Pretty sure I have 12-25, need to count later, but is that pretty much fine with what my other options are?

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 6:30

Post #8 of 21 (1161 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [tigerpaws] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

tigerpaws wrote:

Since KMC is has been the OEM chain supplier to Shimano since the mid 80's you can feel good about buying a one and passing on Shimano....that is unless you just like lighting money on fire;)

As was mentioned KMC is great and it comes with a quick link which is so much nicer compared to that stupid pin setup Shimano likes so they can create another revenue stream only they can fill.

Also maybe pick up a 'go no go' chain checker as that is the quickest and easiest way to find an out of spec chain. Skipping chains can be 2 clicks on a barrel adjuster.

1) They are slighty more expensive than Shimano, no? At least on Amazon..

2) the Shimano pins don't come with the chain?

3) Skipping chains can be 2 clicks on a barrel adjuster - not sure what that means explain? My chain doesn't skip now.

tigerpaws

Jul 24, 12 6:37

Post #9 of 21 (1145 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cervelo Apple wrote:

tigerpaws wrote:

1) They are slighty more expensive than Shimano, no? At least on Amazon..
ebay you can get 10 speed narrow KMC's for no more than $30 shipped....my last was $25. Shimano can be had a bit more than that, but I was referring to LBS pricing mainly. No shops in my entire town carry KMC chains in stock. An 105 chain at my LBS is $50.
2) the Shimano pins don't come with the chain?
They do, but they are not a lot of fun to install vs a quick link. The real issue comes when/if you take your chain off to clean it....you have to break the pin and go buy a new one. I can re-use a master link 4-5 times....let's just say it lasts the life of my chain.
3) Skipping chains can be 2 clicks on a barrel adjuster - not sure what that means explain? My chain doesn't skip now.
A post had alluded that a skipping chain means a worn cassette. It can, but very often it can just be a slightly out of aligned derailleur.

(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Jul 24, 12 6:39)

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 6:45

Post #10 of 21 (1126 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [tigerpaws] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

tigerpaws wrote:

Cervelo Apple wrote:

tigerpaws wrote:

Thanks.

So explain these KMC quick link.
1) It comes with the chain during purchase?
2) Basically mean's no tool is required to get the chain on or off?
3) Is the chain any weaker due to the quick link.
4) My chain does not skip at all. It does make a loud noise if not lubed, still deciding if I need a new cassette. I know the mantra is if there is any doubt, change the chain since its cheaper, but besides visually checking the cassette and looking for skipping, is there any sure-tell signs that the cassette needs replacing?

(This post was edited by Cervelo Apple on Jul 24, 12 6:52)

beston

Jul 24, 12 7:01

Post #11 of 21 (1115 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

This isn't really a cervelo question... There is nothing specific about the drivetrain on this bike that will be uniquely specific to Cervelo.

-Shimano 6700 is the new series. For the chain and cassette, both the 6600 and the 6700 Ultegra series can be used interchangeably
-If you have worn your chain to the point that it will damage the drivetrain, you should seriously examine the wear on the chain rings as well. If your chain has stretched more than 1/8" (as per below), you have likely started the process of damaging your drive train. If it's worn enough, a new chain will no longer mesh well with the worn parts. If you measured the links, how stretched is it?
-Generally speaking 2500miles is about the max that I get. Ultegra 6700 chain is a good choice, but as others have said, generally any KMC, SRAM, Shimano 10 speed chain will do the trick.

Originally from Sheldon Brown:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

The normal technique is to measure a one-foot length, placing an inch mark of the ruler exactly in the middle of one rivet, then looking at the corresponding rivet 12 complete links away. On a new, unworn chain, this rivet will also line up exactly with an inch mark. With a worn chain, the rivet will be past the inch mark.

Stretch Recommendations Less than 1/16� (<1.6mm) No need to replace the chain. Chain is fine. 1/16� (1.6mm) Replace NOW! 1/8� (3.2mm)

A bit late but still must replace the chain. Favourite gears already worn. New chain may wear out faster due to worn gears unless you also change the gears.

More than 1/8� (>3.2mm) Too late! New chain will skip on badly worn gears. Need new chain and new gears.

Cervelo Apple

Jul 24, 12 7:03

Post #12 of 21 (1107 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [beston] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

came out to about 1/16.

beston

Jul 24, 12 7:05

Post #13 of 21 (1096 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Then you are likely o.k. to get away with just replacing the chain.

Dave in Canada

Jul 24, 12 7:19

Post #14 of 21 (1065 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

1) The type of frame has no bearing on whether the chain, sprokets or rings need to be replaced.
2) Ultegra is very good quality and you are not missing anything running ultegra over DA, Red or other.
3) You should clean your chain and re-lube on a regular basis. You say you have had the bike for 2 years and 2500miles and never cleaned it...mine would be thick as a rope if I didn't clean it at least every 2 weeks. When cleaning also clean the small gears in the rear deraileur.

Ultimately, 2500miles is not enough riding to cause chain wear if the chain has been cleaned and maintained.

I wash and clean my entire bike every 2 weeks (or after a wet ride). I clean the full drivetrain with chainbrite and a toothbrush. Then I lube with White Lightning (a dry wax lube).

Dave

Bob Loblaw

Jul 24, 12 8:13

Post #15 of 21 (1018 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Brushman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Brushman wrote:

2. Cassette and chain "wear" together, that is, they should be replaced at the same time. Mileage/wear is the determinant, not time.

do you really change your cassette every time you change your chain?
i'm no pro mechanic, but everything i've come across tells me that cassettes should last way longer than chains.

tigerpaws

Jul 24, 12 8:29

Post #16 of 21 (997 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Bob Loblaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My current SRAM 12-25 has about 8K miles on it and it's still golden. I have never swapped chains with cassettes. *Maybe* if one rides the titanium cassette offerings, but that's still a *maybe*.

nightfend

Jul 24, 12 10:12

Post #17 of 21 (930 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Bob Loblaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Bob Loblaw wrote:

i'm no pro mechanic, but everything i've come across tells me that cassettes should last way longer than chains.

Bob, you are correct. If you change your chain before it stretches out too far, then you won't have to change your cassette at the same time. What people often do is end up using a chain too long and then once it has stretched out it begins to damage the cassette. Then, when they put on a new chain, the cassette skips all over the place.

Cassettes are expensive. Save some money and change your chain every 2000 miles or less. Or, get a chain checker tool.

Also, DON'T remove your chain to clean it. That's ridiculous. You can clean the chain just fine without ever removing the chain. Shimano chains works well and are pretty easy to install. KMC's are nice as well, but I would not recommend opening and closing the quicklink on a regular basis as you will severly weaken the chain. I treat quicklinks just like Shimano pins and try not to re-use them.

matto

Jul 24, 12 10:20

Post #18 of 21 (909 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

What does this have to do with Cervelo Bike Mechanics?

hullcb

Jul 24, 12 10:42

Post #19 of 21 (883 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [nightfend] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

nightfend wrote:

Also, DON'T remove your chain to clean it. That's ridiculous. You can clean the chain just fine without ever removing the chain. Shimano chains works well and are pretty easy to install. KMC's are nice as well, but I would not recommend opening and closing the quicklink on a regular basis as you will severly weaken the chain. I treat quicklinks just like Shimano pins and try not to re-use them.

Man... really? I used to do on-the-bike chain cleaning and never again... I use my KMC link all the time. I've had the same one on my chain now since day one, and I'm well overdue for a new chain. I've never heard that using the quicklinks weakens the chain... Why does it?

tigerpaws

Jul 24, 12 10:45

Post #20 of 21 (878 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [hullcb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have been re-using quick links on my MTB and road bikes for a good 15 years and never had one break. Doesn't make it right per se, I'm sure it can and does weaken it every time you take it apart. Like you I never clean mine on the bike b/c even with a handy chain cleaner from Park it's still messy. I just take it off and let it soak in a bath overnight, slap it back on. Especially with dirt and chunks I never had success getting an MTB chain as clean as taking it off vs leaving it on. Do it for road by habit with MTB. YMMV>

(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Jul 24, 12 10:47)

nightfend

Jul 24, 12 11:32

Post #21 of 21 (841 views)

Re: Cervelo Bike Mechanic Questions [hullcb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I usually just wipe the chain down with a cotton rag after washing the bike, then re-lube the chain. If I REALLY want to get it super clean, I'll degrease it first with diesel fuel or wd-40 or something similar, wipe the chain down, then re-lube the chain. But I find I can do this perfectly well while leaving the chain on the bike. I definitely do not use those goofy chain cleaner systems.

But, if you do like removing the chain, then I can see why you would hate the Shimano and for that matter Campy chains.