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How many of us don't have health or auto insurance?

 

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oldandslow

Jul 1, 12 8:55

Post #1 of 46 (2340 views)
How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? Quote | Reply

Just wondering (maybe this has been asked before). Also, how many of you don't presently have auto insurance?

I'll go first: For a time in my early 20's I had to pay for school. I worked part-time as a contractor. I didn't have the money to afford auto or health insurance, so I didn't have it. In that time, I was fortunate, I only had one small fender bender (cost a couple hundred dollars out of pocket 30 years ago), and minor sports injuries (cuts/strains/pulls, and one hairline fracture that I self-diagnosed and treated). For the past several decades I have had both types of insurance ( auto accident repairs have become much more expensive, and my wife and I have each had major bike crashes). I could obviously get away with not having either, but it would be a bad economic choice. I assume that I will have auto and health insurance for many decades to come. How about everybody else?


(This post was edited by oldandslow on Jul 1, 12 9:15)


Blacktocomm

Jul 1, 12 11:01

Post #2 of 46 (2291 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Well... I am doing about the same as you did, paying for college myself and working, so I have auto insurance, but health insurance???.. uhhh... Well I don't have the money for it, so I live without it.


big kahuna

Jul 1, 12 11:16

Post #3 of 46 (2286 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

oldandslow wrote:
Just wondering (maybe this has been asked before). Also, how many of you don't presently have auto insurance?

I'll go first: For a time in my early 20's I had to pay for school. I worked part-time as a contractor. I didn't have the money to afford auto or health insurance, so I didn't have it. In that time, I was fortunate, I only had one small fender bender (cost a couple hundred dollars out of pocket 30 years ago), and minor sports injuries (cuts/strains/pulls, and one hairline fracture that I self-diagnosed and treated). For the past several decades I have had both types of insurance ( auto accident repairs have become much more expensive, and my wife and I have each had major bike crashes). I could obviously get away with not having either, but it would be a bad economic choice. I assume that I will have auto and health insurance for many decades to come. How about everybody else?


The two aren't analogous and you know it. What are you trying to say, given that? Technically, you're breaking the law these days if you own a vehicle, are a licensed driver, and operate that same vehicle without being covered by at least minimum levels of auto insurance. It's not yet against the law to NOT have health insurance, though the ObamaCare tax-that's-a-"penalty" (but actually a tax, by legal decree) is beginning to push us towards criminalization of non-possession of health insurance.


(This post was edited by big kahuna on Jul 1, 12 11:34)


Record10Carbon

Jul 1, 12 12:00

Post #4 of 46 (2265 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Depending on where you are - I would get some cheap car insurance. I want to say that in Illinois it is a multi-thousand dollar ticket, and they tow your car if you dont have insurance. The car towing thing may be a Winnebago county thing but I know it was in the news.

As for health insurance, chances are the only time you would need it is in the case of a liability injury. However, you may want to check with your health dept. and see if you qualify for Medicaid as a buffer (but then again, if you are an educated, working white guy chances are slim).
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Duffy

Jul 1, 12 13:51

Post #5 of 46 (2222 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No auto from age 18-30.

Medical off and on (mostly off) until I started my business at age 35.

Since I've had both I haven't been in an accident or gone to a doctor.


____________________________________________________
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Record10Carbon

Jul 1, 12 13:54

Post #6 of 46 (2221 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [Duffy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Duffy wrote:
No auto from age 18-30.

Medical off and on (mostly off) until I started my business at age 35.

Since I've had both I haven't been in an accident or gone to a doctor.


There you go - being an average American. I think that we need to raise your taxes, you shall PAY and pay till it hurts. ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------

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oldandslow

Jul 1, 12 14:00

Post #7 of 46 (2218 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [big kahuna] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I merely asked a basic question: What have your choices been, and what determined those choices? It's pretty simple, and hopefully more interesting and enlightening as to the choices and decision-making processes that real people make. Methinks thou dost protest too much....


triguy98

Jul 1, 12 14:19

Post #8 of 46 (2199 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Not an option here to own a car without insurance. Basic coverage is pretty much nothing if you own a crappy car. I didn't have health insurance for a long time (about ten years.) Of course, I got hurt a couple times MTBing and got an massive ear infection from volunteer diving. Since I have gotten health insurance, I have gotten hurt once MTBing, my wrist injury and surgery was workers comp. That's it. But I know as soon as I go without, I'll get cancer or something. I do have supplemental cancer and accident policies, too.


CW in NH

Jul 1, 12 14:35

Post #9 of 46 (2186 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [big kahuna] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
Technically, you're breaking the law these days if you own a vehicle, are a licensed driver, and operate that same vehicle without being covered by at least minimum levels of auto insurance.

Umm, no. but maybe where you live


Rodred

Jul 1, 12 14:52

Post #10 of 46 (2165 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [CW in NH] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

CW in NH wrote:
Quote:
Technically, you're breaking the law these days if you own a vehicle, are a licensed driver, and operate that same vehicle without being covered by at least minimum levels of auto insurance.


Umm, no. but maybe where you live

You are lightyears into minority territory.

You are also being a little dishonest.


Unlike almost every other state, New Hampshire does not automatically require motorists to carry an auto liability insurance policy or provide some of financial backing in order to drive a vehicle within its boundaries.
However, you may be forced to carry liability insurance if you have:

  • Been involved in an accident.

  • A conviction for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

  • Multiple reckless driving convictions.

Ways to Establish Financial Responsibility If the state does insist that you prove you're financially responsible enough to operate a vehicle, your only option is to carry acceptable levels of bodily injury and property damage SR-22 liability insurance. You'll likely have to carry the coverage for three years, although the terms vary.





State-by-State Minimum Requirements

  • Alaska 50/100/25
  • Alabama 25/50/25
  • Arkansas 25/50/25
  • Arizona 15/30/10
  • California 15/30/5
  • Colorado 25/50/15
  • Connecticut 20/40/10
  • Delaware 15/30/10
  • Florida 10/20/10
  • Georgia 25/50/25
  • Hawaii 20/40/10
  • Idaho 20/50/15
  • Illinois 20/40/15
  • Indiana 25/50/10
  • Iowa 20/40/15
  • Kansas 25/50/10
  • Kentucky 25/50/10
  • Louisiana 15/30/25
  • Maine 50/100/25
  • Maryland 30/60/15
  • Massachusetts 20/40/5
  • Michigan 20/40/10
  • Minnesota 30/60/10
  • Mississippi 25/50/25
  • Missouri 25/50/10
  • Montana 25/50/10
  • Nebraska 25/50/25
  • New Hampshire 25/50/25
  • New Jersey 15/30/5
  • New Mexico 25/50/10
  • Nevada 15/30/10
  • New York 25/50/10
  • North Carolina 30/60/25
  • North Dakota 25/50/25
  • Ohio 12.5/25/7.5
  • Oklahoma 25/50/25
  • Oregon 25/50/20
  • Pennsylvania 15/30/5
  • Rhode Island 25/50/25
  • South Carolina 25/50/25
  • South Dakota 25/50/25
  • Tennessee 25/50/15
  • Texas 30/60/25
  • Utah 25/65/15
  • Virginia 25/50/20
  • Vermont 25/50/10
  • Washington 25/50/10
  • Wisconsin 50/100/55
  • West Virginia 20/40/10
  • Wyoming 25/100/15


~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


oldandslow

Jul 1, 12 15:47

Post #11 of 46 (2127 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:

Quote:
(CW in NH said) Umm, no. but maybe where you live

You are lightyears into minority territory.

You are also being a little dishonest.


Hey, at least he answered the question! Certianly more honest than some folks .... ;).


(This post was edited by oldandslow on Jul 1, 12 17:17)


BarryP

Jul 1, 12 17:11

Post #12 of 46 (2094 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was without health insurance for exactly 4 months out of my life. I graduated college in May, got a teaching job that summer that started in September, and the health insurance kicked in October. I worked my way through college, and a ton of loans, and a single poor parent who couldn't loan me $20,000 to start my own business (that's why I got the education degree, yaknow) let alone pay for health insurance.

I had my knuckle knocked off of my hand that cost me $5,000 worth of surgery. Glad it wasn't a tumor.
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CW in NH

Jul 1, 12 17:17

Post #13 of 46 (2091 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here's the rub. Since insurance is not mandatory (and its pretty easy to fall into the "not required" category), our uninsured motorist coverage is significantly higher than it is in most other places where I've lived. So basically, if you have auto insurance, you're paying for those that don't.

See any parallels.


atl_tony

Jul 1, 12 17:18

Post #14 of 46 (2089 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [BarryP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Always had auto insurance - well, at least since I was 16 and started driving.

Never not had health insurance. My folks taught me early you always need health insurance - never know when something bad is going to happen.
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IzzyG

Jul 1, 12 17:35

Post #15 of 46 (2074 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Never had health insurance until I came to the US. Coincidentally I've never used it or gone to the doctor since coming here either. Ok, it's not coincidental, I've just avoided it. I've always had auto insurance since it's the law. If I wasn't married or have a child, I would skip health insurance and chance it. If it was bad enough, I would fly back and get public healthcare. And I don't even have to wait for weeks ;)


realAlbertan

Jul 2, 12 0:22

Post #16 of 46 (1980 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No auto insurance = no driving. $2875 fine around here.
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JSA

Jul 2, 12 5:57

Post #17 of 46 (1929 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [CW in NH] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

CW in NH wrote:
Here's the rub. Since insurance is not mandatory (and its pretty easy to fall into the "not required" category), our uninsured motorist coverage is significantly higher than it is in most other places where I've lived. So basically, if you have auto insurance, you're paying for those that don't.

See any parallels.

I don't see the parallel.

If YOU don't have auto insurance and you crash YOUR car, no one is going to step in and pay to have it fixed. If you don't have insurance and you smack into me, my uninsured motorist coverage covers ME and YOU still do not have anyone paying to repair your car. I am not paying to have your car covered or repaired in the event of an accident.

If we refused medical treatment to those without insurance, then I could see the parallel.

You wanna see a parallel with ObamaCare? Ok - Assume I don't carry auto insurance until we have the accident described above (and neither to to you). Once we have our collision, we both obtain auto insurance to pay for the damage. See any problems with that?
_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


CW in NH

Jul 2, 12 6:04

Post #18 of 46 (1924 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [JSA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think that you're smarter than that. One of the reasons that HC costs are high is that if people dont have it, hospitals are "required" to provide care. That cost is part of their cost basis, which drives up the cost for everyone that can pay/does have insurance (hence it drives up the cost of insurance). In my State, I pay more for auto insurance (specifically uninsured motorist) because if one of those people hit me, at fault, I pay for it, through my insurance. Since we have more of them, (because its all the people that choose that route + all of the people who break the law), the odds are higher that I'll submit an uninsured motorist claim then you will in WI.


In either case, the people who don't pay/have insurance, drive up the cost for those that do.


JesseR

Jul 2, 12 6:10

Post #19 of 46 (1921 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Had auto insurance since I got my license. Always been with the same company too.

Almost always had health insurance. There was about 14 months when I didn't have it when I was younger and didn't qualify through my employer. Now I pay for my health insurance completely out of pocket (independent contractor) and I sure do miss the days when somebody else was footing the bill. Though it looks like I'm just ahead of the curve since ObamaCare is going to make most companies pass the joys of finding and paying for health care to their employees.

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MJuric

Jul 2, 12 6:22

Post #20 of 46 (1913 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [CW in NH] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

our uninsured motorist coverage is significantly higher than it is in most other places where I've lived. So basically, if you have auto insurance, you're paying for those that don't.

I'm in Illinois where insurance is mandatory. It's also punishable by a minimum of 500$ fine if you're found driving without insurance. Yet, despite all of this, according to THIS Insurance cost in Illinois averages 1290$ and NH averages 1334$. Illinois is ranked 40th cheapest and NH is 34th. Almost all states have mandatory insurance and 33 of them have more expensive insurance than NH.

Basically if you have auto insurance you ARE paying for those that don't, but fact of the matter is that making something mandatory doesn't seem to have much of an effect on how many people actually get insurance and certainly less of an effect on cost than all the other factors.

Health care will be no different.

~Matt




JSA

Jul 2, 12 7:42

Post #21 of 46 (1866 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [CW in NH] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

CW in NH wrote:
I think that you're smarter than that. One of the reasons that HC costs are high is that if people dont have it, hospitals are "required" to provide care. That cost is part of their cost basis, which drives up the cost for everyone that can pay/does have insurance (hence it drives up the cost of insurance). In my State, I pay more for auto insurance (specifically uninsured motorist) because if one of those people hit me, at fault, I pay for it, through my insurance. Since we have more of them, (because its all the people that choose that route + all of the people who break the law), the odds are higher that I'll submit an uninsured motorist claim then you will in WI.

In either case, the people who don't pay/have insurance, drive up the cost for those that do.


You don't get it. You are not paying to cover those without insurance. You are paying to cover yourself. There are a lot of people who could afford auto insurance, but, do not carry it. If one of those individuals hits your car, you can sue them and still have them pay for your damage. Even if they have no money, you can still sue them and get a judgment on which you may or may not be able to collect. But, you are paying to cover yourself, not them.

You want another fun analogy with ObamaCare? Ok. How about this - Auto insurance is mandatory, but, we know not everyone can afford it and we know that the pool may be insufficient to pay out for all the minor fender-benders that are not reported to insurance companies and/or not fixed under the "old" plan. So, what we are going to do is impose a "fee" on kids, age 12 - 15 to kick into the auto insurance pool. I like that idea! Kinda like what ObamaCare is doing to 20-somethings ...
_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


________

Jul 2, 12 7:52

Post #22 of 46 (1861 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I have both now. When I was poor (and younger) I had neither. I couldn't afford it, and what I mean is this.

There was no way I was gonna pay money for something that could not get utility out of.

Perhaps I could have afforded it, but my life would have been this: no car, no chicks, no friends, no fun, no hope. Go to work, come back home on the bus and go to sleep. No cable, no cell phone. Buy eveything at Walmart and bring it home on the bus. Wear shoes with holes in them, No races, no concerts, nothing. No Christmas gifts to give. You either have insurance or some kind of a life.

If I had an auto wreck or got sick . . . I'd cross that bridge when I get there. One time I wrecked into someone's car and gave him $1,000I'd saved several yearsfor. I would never go to the doctor even if I was sick. There were times that I though I was dying. I didn't.

Life must be more than merely staying alive.


oldandslow

Jul 2, 12 7:52

Post #23 of 46 (1861 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [JSA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

So, do you have auto and/or health insurance coverage presently? Was there ever a time when you didn't? I'm not really interested in seeing any parallels (there are some analogies that can be carefully made, but few parallels), as much as getting more information about people's actual choices, and So far the answers have been interesting. It appears having auto insurance be "mandatory" has little effect on some people, and a great effect on others.


JSA

Jul 2, 12 8:03

Post #24 of 46 (1851 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [oldandslow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yes, I have both. I do not believe there was ever a time I was without either.

Auto - Got on my parents' plan (USAA) at age 16-20. Was on my own plan (USAA) from 20 until present.

Health - Was on parents' plan until age 18. Got on the Purdue student plan at the start of collect. Got on Tri-Care (I think it was Tri-Care back then) at age 20 when I enlisted in the Army. Was able to stay on that when I returned to college and through law school, then my time in the JAG Corps. Once out of the Army, I got on a single plan through my employer and eventually a family plan through my firm.
_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


CW in NH

Jul 2, 12 8:07

Post #25 of 46 (1849 views)
Re: How many of us don't have health or auto insurance? [MJuric] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

 
Quote:
Yet, despite all of this, according to THIS Insurance cost in Illinois averages 1290$ and NH averages 1334$. Illinois is ranked 40th cheapest and NH is 34th. Almost all states have mandatory insurance and 33 of them have more expensive insurance than NH.
You need to look at uninsured motorist specifically. There are a lot of things that drive auto (and HC) insurance cost. I was being very specific wrt the piece that is affected. You also have no-fault states, so in those cases, I would imagine that insurance would be even higher (but that's just a guess).

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