Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... (Page 10): Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava...

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rruff

Jun 20, 12 7:44

Post #226 of 247 (1445 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I do all that by actually riding with others.

That's great if you can get a group together at the same time. One huge benefit of Strava for newbs, is that they can see where they rank fitness wise and connect with other cyclists who have similar abilities, if they want. And if they'd rather ride alone they can still "compete". Way safer than group riding... and less disruptive of drivers.

Tri-Banter

Jun 20, 12 7:48

Post #227 of 247 (1442 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Fleck wrote:

I do all that by actually riding with others. Challenging myself with others on hard rides and in races! :)

Maybe I'm weird!

I didn't know there were others. People ride with others? Who are these others that you speak of?

____________________________________
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Fleck

Jun 20, 12 7:58

Post #228 of 247 (1430 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [rruff] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

That's great if you can get a group together at the same time

I get this, believe me. Just having a bit of fun.

Not sure if it's a cart and horse thing with me. With cycling in particular - Either by chance, planning or circumstance, no matter where I have been and wherever I have lived, whatever stage of my sports career I have been in for 30 odd years, I have always had other people to train with near-by.

I do ride on my own - did a 4 hour solo ride a few weeks ago. To me riding with a good group and good friends and competitors - it's always been the best part of cycling.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog | EventsOnline | Bibnumbers.com

kdw

Jun 20, 12 8:27

Post #229 of 247 (1403 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Murphy'sLaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

"Not everybody has "others" around to train and race with. Or at the times they are available to do so."

This is not a new development for ML, as evidenced by his recently discovered 1st grade class photo:

kmh1225

Jun 20, 12 8:33

Post #230 of 247 (1397 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [WelshinPhilly] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

WelshinPhilly wrote:

Do broke people now get to sue Foursquare for encouraging them to go to Starbucks multiple times a day to get their Mayor badge?

lol. good analogy.

gregf83

Jun 20, 12 8:42

Post #231 of 247 (1384 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Fleck wrote:

Not everybody has "others" around to train and race with. Or at the times they are available to do so.

Mike,

As I said, perhaps I am the weird one then! Feel lucky, because I love riding with others and have ample opportunity to do so, but I guess I'm a bit of an oddball! :)

I don't use Strava a lot, but the KOMs I've had usually resulted from group rides. It's much easier to push hard with a group than on my own. Strava allows you to compare your performance with others you might not otherwise ride/race with.

AlanShearer

Jun 20, 12 10:22

Post #232 of 247 (1342 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [link5485] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

link5485 wrote:

If the rider is responsible in the one case why wouldn't he or she be responsible if there's a third party injured?

Because the rider assumed the risk, shared in the negligence, is without clean hands, etc. Whereas the third party did not.

This may not be a great example, because states have generally dealt with it statutorily one way or another, but compare this case to one where a bartender, knowing a patron plans on driving himself home, continues to serve him alcohol and makes no effort to find alternative transportation.

AlanShearer

Jun 20, 12 10:24

Post #233 of 247 (1340 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Murphy'sLaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Strava is not a party to either a person doing a dumbass thing and hurting or killing themselves, or a person doing a dumbass thing and hurting or killing another.

Your example is poor. Why am I not surprised?

How is it not a party, when Strava is arguably encouraging the dumbass behavior.

AlanShearer

Jun 20, 12 10:33

Post #234 of 247 (1324 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [riltri] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

riltri wrote:

What does that have to do with a third party victim? I'm all for holding the rider responsible for his or her actions. But what about holding Strava responsible for its actions too?

What actions? They have done absolutely nothing except to provide information. What morons then do with that information is the moron's resposibility.

Absolutely nothing except to provide information? It's my understanding that their marketing encourages competitive behavior, beating your friends, etc.

Seeking a KOM on a descent is an accident waiting to happen. I would not call encouraging that kind of activity responsible.

bobloblaw

Jun 20, 12 10:39

Post #235 of 247 (1318 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Fleck wrote:

Seriously? The black-and-white attitude some people on this site have is amazing.

YOU CAN DO BOTH. Most people who use Strava also ride in groups and even *gasp* race. Every week after our local training crit, half the guys upload their race files to Strava.

Murphy'sLaw

Jun 20, 12 10:42

Post #236 of 247 (1310 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [AlanShearer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

AlanShearer wrote:

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

How is it not a party, when Strava is arguably encouraging the dumbass behavior.

Alan, keep posting!!! You're kind of a big deal! Get out there and show them what you can do!!

Love,
Strava

See - there they go again, arguably encouraging dumbass behavior.
;-)

float , hammer , and jog

Fleck

Jun 20, 12 10:45

Post #237 of 247 (1304 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [bobloblaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

YOU CAN DO BOTH. Most people who use Strava also ride in groups and even *gasp* race. Every week after our local training crit, half the guys upload their race files to Strava.

*Like*

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog | EventsOnline | Bibnumbers.com

Bigringonly

Jun 20, 12 10:45

Post #238 of 247 (1303 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [kdw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Well, he does have on a UM sweatshirt!

kdw wrote:

rruff

Jun 20, 12 13:12

Post #239 of 247 (1237 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

With cycling in particular - Either by chance, planning or circumstance, no matter where I have been and wherever I have lived, whatever stage of my sports career I have been in for 30 odd years, I have always had other people to train with near-by.

Depends on where you live. Even though the cycling is great, I live in a place where there aren't many riders. There is only one guy who has a similar performance level, and he is moving away next month.

When I lived in LA, me and 100 of my close friends would do training races 4 times a week. Speaking of racing on public roads with no "safeguards"... yes, we did that all the time... in huge packs.

tri_yoda

Jun 20, 12 14:45

Post #240 of 247 (1198 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Murphy'sLaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

LOL.

He must be a lawyer.

PT

Jun 20, 12 16:33

Post #241 of 247 (1162 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [davearm] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Appreciate what you're trying to here but you just contradicted yourself and proved my point. In your last post you said that it was irrelevant how the segments come to exist on Strava and now you're saying Strava is wholly responsible. Doesn't work. The nature of how the posts appear and where they appear is completely relevant - along with many other factors.

FWIW, a couple more points apropos the topic in general

Google, Facebook and Youtube have all hosted material showing the poster doing something illegal which was then used by the courts to prosecute the poster. Speeding, violence... there are plenty of cases. However, its all about the state prosecuting the person who broke the law, not the site itself. The site is merely used as evidence as far as I know.
In this case, the deceased broke the law (speeding) and died in the process. If he hadn't, perhaps the state could pursue him for speeding, using Strava as evidence. They could do this for anyone who posts a segment that shows them travelling above the legal limit.
Strava did not speed nor did they compel the deceased to take any actions. The issue of culpability here (as per Kang, the deceased's lawyer) would seem to be extremely tenuous and relying on the court overlooking most legal precedents and conventions.

Its a very curious matter but I still fail to see how Strava can be culpable.

davearm

Jun 20, 12 17:42

Post #242 of 247 (1120 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [PT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

???

I didn't contradict myself at all. Strava is responsible for whatever appears on its website. Period. Just like any other website. That creates a high burden of responsibility for certain sites that allow users to control content, such as youtube. The sites are responsible to monitor that content for appropriateness. They don't get to say, "well we didn't put that there!" Sorry, no. Your site, your responsibility.

Where you see a contradiction in any of that, I fail to see.

tbrahana

Jun 21, 12 17:46

Post #243 of 247 (1024 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [BrianPBN] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I thought this whole lawsuit thing was a load of crap, but then read another story just today about a guy in SF who was racing downhill blowing stop signs and stop lights to set a surprisingly "Strava-esque" downhill record when he plowed and killed a pedestrian, though he himself survived. This first lawsuit is but the tip of the iceberg...

If I were Strava I'd immediately remove all downhill segments from KOM eligibility.

ck1

Jun 21, 12 17:52

Post #244 of 247 (1015 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [davearm] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Really? What happened to personal responsibility? Grow up America.

If in doubt, give it heaps!

indianacyclist

Jun 21, 12 17:52

Post #245 of 247 (1014 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [tbrahana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It's not Strava's responsibility to protect idiots. Most decent and experienced cyclists can descend without putting themselves or others in danger. The people who are going after downhill KOM's and endangering themselves or others are the same morons who cut off cars, blow through lights, and make the public have a negative perception about cyclists.

djb_rh

Jun 21, 12 19:20

Post #246 of 247 (977 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [tbrahana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

tbrahana wrote:

If I were Strava I'd immediately remove all downhill segments from KOM eligibility.

And you'd lose customers. Why? Because YOU are forgetting that the entire world, or even the entire cycling world, DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND ROAD CYCLISTS.

I was an early Strava user, and at least some of the functionality that exists now is due to my suggestions from a MOUNTAIN BIKING point of view. It was designed and built by road cyclists initially, and as such really didn't work well for trail data as well as made some assumptions that aren't true. I'm STILL begging them for better lap support (and I'm sure the crit guys are, too) as it's terrible now.

But the reality here is that MTB DH guys are even using Strava now for regular trail DH runs, and it's not unreasonable for them to do so. What you're asking would break that unless they also added an algorithm to only eliminate DH segments that are on top of a road. Possible, but not fool-proof given how variable GPS data can be. And sometimes roads *are* closed or cyclists *can* still descend them with wild abandon without breaking any laws. It's a silly thing to try to enforce, IMHO.

I'm surprised the T&C doesn't have more specific language that you shouldn't break any laws. But should it *have* to? REALLY? I don't think so.

The dude CHOSE to BREAK THE LAW in pursuit of some community prize on a social network. That's not the fault of the social network if the network itself didn't create the contest he was competing in. IMHO, since they did not create the segment, they have no culpability.

--Donnie

mv2005

Jun 21, 12 22:14

Post #247 of 247 (941 views)

Re: Family of Dead Cyclist Sues Strava... [Saundo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I don't know what's worse....
1) lawsuit itself
2) lawyer that takes the case
3) the legal system that allows valuable tax dollars to be consumed by such a frivolous claim.

2), followed by 2) and then last but by no means least, 2).

The litigation stream of the legal fraternity seems to have no moral compass. They have f**ked up society on so many levels and unfortunately the greed that started in the USA has spread globally as more and more of these leaches latch on to the concept on getting rich at the expense of communities.

So many areas of communities have vanished because charities or councils cannot afford the liability insurance brought about because lawyers take on (and encourage) ridiculous claims. Here local councils are pulling down tree houses and rope swings in verge trees etc. But on the plus side they get their Porsche and another opportunity to have people focus on them talking. Me, me me!

Society needs to unite and say enough is enough.

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