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Specialized -- a RANT!
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bobby11
May 1, 12 4:19
Post #101 of 127
(2072 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [tetonrider]
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every shop has a specialized lockring tool, and one can order one.
If by "one" you mean "anyone," that's just plain and simply NOT TRUE. Please READ THE THREAD!
tetonrider
May 1, 12 7:07
Post #102 of 127
(2004 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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bobby11 wrote:
every shop has a specialized lockring tool, and one can order one.
If by "one" you mean "anyone," that's just plain and simply NOT TRUE. Please READ THE THREAD!
"one" in that sentence referred back to "any shop".
npage148
May 1, 12 7:24
Post #103 of 127
(1989 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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I know we are way past the point of no return but it seems others on the internet have used Park Tools' Green Pin Spanner get the lockring on/off
bobby11
May 1, 12 7:38
Post #104 of 127
(1970 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [npage148]
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I considered resorting to that, but between the two cranksets, there were more dollars involved than I paid for my first nice road bike not all that long ago. Decided to hold out for the "right tool for the job."
Specialized's head of customer service has been in touch. A spider lock ring tool is on its way to me.
bobby11
May 1, 12 7:41
Post #105 of 127
(1964 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [tetonrider]
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Then you've apparently missed the points that:
a) Specialized won't allow the dealer to order it for drop shipment to me.
b) It's a 3 hour round trip to the nearest authorized Specialized dealer ... a trip I've already had to make twice because of this fiasco, and
c) The tool I need is only sold as part of a $300 (plus shipping) set that includes tools I don't need and don't anticipate ever needing.
Fleck
May 1, 12 7:47
Post #106 of 127
(1951 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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Then you've apparently missed the points that:
a) Specialized won't allow the dealer to order it for drop shipment to me.
b) It's a 3 hour round trip to the nearest authorized Specialized dealer ... a trip I've already had to make twice because of this fiasco, and
c) The tool I need is only sold as part of a $300 (plus shipping) set that includes tools I don't need and don't anticipate ever needing.
Not trying to be an ass and I know this does not help you, but it does address the larger issue, that bikes, particularly the so-called super TT bikes have become extraordinarily complicated. That's why my only bike these days is a basic road bike - a Cervelo R3 with straight-up Dura Ace kit( nothing funky or proprietary). I can service and fix anything and everything on the bike from front to back myself with basic bike tools and just a modest amount of mechanic skill/knowledge!
I was in the Bike Barn last summer during IMC race week and there was a Trek Speed Concept that needed some work done on it and a mechanic I know, and is very accomplished, was cursing the pain-in-the ass it was to do something on the bike that is normally pretty straight forward!
Steve Fleck
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(This post was
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tetonrider
May 1, 12 7:52
Post #107 of 127
(1939 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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bobby11 wrote:
Then you've apparently missed the points that:
a) Specialized won't allow the dealer to order it for drop shipment to me.
b) It's a 3 hour round trip to the nearest authorized Specialized dealer ... a trip I've already had to make twice because of this fiasco, and
c) The tool I need is only sold as part of a $300 (plus shipping) set that includes tools I don't need and don't anticipate ever needing.
with all due respect, none of those 3 points have anything to do with the point i was making: specialized WILL sell the tool to the shop. i get that you're upset and i understand why, but i've not missed the point.
regarding (c): you may not like how they sell it (part of a package), or the price, or whatever, but what i said is any shop can order one for you.
regarding (a): whether the shop ships to you is between you and the shop. cannondale will neither sell nor ship to you, either. dealers may order a tool and ship to you.
regarding (b): that your dealer's mechanics screwed up is part of your problem but not central to the issue.
if i saw your post when you first wrote it, i'd have overnighted you my lockring tool and none of this would have been as big a stink. you ordered some self-service parts but were unprepared, which stinks.
when i had my first bike with specialized cranks, the dealer i worked with (outside of my very remote area) knew i'd be working on them myself and recommended that $300 set. i balked at the price. i wound up figuring out alternate tools for installing and removing the bearings, as well as for installing the cranks. it was years before i needed the lockring tool, but then i found a solution. one point of a dealer is to help consumers with these decisions. you bought direct and didn't do research beforehand; don't worry--that happens to me all the time. the downside is it costs a little time.
had you ordered from the dealer instead of direct, maybe the shop would have told you all you needed, maybe they would have also shipped to you, and ultimately it may have taken a few days longer but saved you time overall.
Robert Preston
May 1, 12 8:07
Post #108 of 127
(1920 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [Fleck]
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You know what, there's a lot to be said for the very points you raise here, Fleck.
bobby11
May 1, 12 9:21
Post #109 of 127
(1872 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [Fleck]
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Steve,
That's why I purchased the Shiv. In one of these posts, I mention that. And Rappstar has mentioned it as well ... that the Shiv is actually a pretty simple machine. Unfortunately, I think I've found the one exception ... the bottom bracket/crankset area.
Aside from this issue, I'm LOVING the Shiv! I got to do my first ride with the new cranks on it yesterday and I arrived home very, very happy. I haven't raced it enough yet to state this without reservation, but I'm thinking it may be the best TT bike I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot of 'em).
I just posted a comment on a status update Jackmott put up on Facebook where I said I wasn't getting goose bumps or anything over the Cervelo P5, mostly because I'm suspicious of "Simply Faster." I'm skeptical on both counts. ;-)
(This post was
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by bobby11 on May 1, 12 9:24)
cidewar
May 1, 12 11:51
Post #110 of 127
(1825 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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Can I ask you why need it now? you have the spider fixed right? and you can replace the rings if they wear out without the lock ring tool.
jackmott
May 1, 12 12:02
Post #111 of 127
(1810 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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if you had ordered a p5 you wouldn't have had any of these problems!
(of course you wouldn't have a bike at all)
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prattzc
May 1, 12 12:14
Post #112 of 127
(1784 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [Fleck]
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One of the reasons I bought the TM01 (besides fitting me perfectly and it's SEXY as hell) is because it's very easy and adjustable. The same size allen key for most bolts, a simple wrench for the saddle.
The major problem the shiv and cannondale and TM01 have (and potentially the P5) are the cranksets. Between BB30 and BBright, the tools are not as universal (due to being relatively new) as most BB's that are out in the market. Once they become the standard, then it won't be an issue too.
http://www.teamprattz.com/
nickwhite
May 1, 12 12:15
Post #113 of 127
(1782 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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Quote:
they tried to arrange to have the tool ordered and shipped to me and Specialized wouldn't do it.
I would contact the owner of the bike shop, explain my situation clearly, and see if the shop could order the tool and have it shipped directly to the shop. Then, they could sell it to you, and the shop could ship it out. This doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request for the owner of the LBS. Have you explored taking this route? It seems that since they screwed up, and you're so far away, (not to mention you've likely spent a LOT of money with them), they'd be apt to accommodate you in this request.
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JV99
May 1, 12 23:25
Post #114 of 127
(1684 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [nickwhite]
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Have you read the thread?
(This post was
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Tom A.
May 2, 12 7:19
Post #115 of 127
(1577 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [prattzc]
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prattzc wrote:
The
major problem
the shiv and cannondale and TM01 have (and potentially the P5) are the cranksets.
Between BB30 and BBright, the tools are not as universal
(due to being relatively new) as most BB's that are out in the market. Once they become the standard, then it won't be an issue too.
Ummm...what special (or not easily attainable) tools are required to install a PF30 BB into a BBright or BB30 frame and then install the crankset? A headset press (or, just a length of all-thread and some appropriate washers and nuts works fine - that's what I used) along with an allen key and a torque wrench.
Now then, the bearing removal tool is not something that most folks would have...but, I was able to order one off of Amazon (it was only ~$30 shipped) and have it in hand in less than a week. My bike shop had the tool and would have let me use it, BTW...however, I decided I'd rather have one of my own, especially since it also comes with a set of installation "spacers" that would do a slightly better job than just the flat washers I had used previously.
I'm not seeing how this is a "major problem" for all of those bikes. The problem Bob had was related to the specific crankset he was using in a BB30 frame and tools required to take that particular crankset apart...NOT any result of the particular BB configuration.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
(This post was
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by Tom A. on May 2, 12 7:20)
bobby11
May 2, 12 7:48
Post #116 of 127
(1539 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [cidewar]
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Because I also have a Venge. And I now also have a set of crankarms in a different length that what I'm currently running on the Venge. I have the opportunity to do some experimentation I'd like to do. I'm always tweaking and changing my setups to find what feels optimal to me. Being able to do my own wrenching makes that possible. I hate being locked into reliance on an LBS that's 90 minutes away.
bobby11
May 2, 12 7:50
Post #117 of 127
(1533 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [nickwhite]
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Why would I want to pay $300 for a toolset that includes several tools I'll likely never need to get the one tool that I DO need, then pay shipping twice?
nickwhite
May 2, 12 7:56
Post #118 of 127
(1519 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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bobby11 wrote:
Why would I want to pay $300 for a toolset that includes several tools I'll likely never need to get the one tool that I DO need, then pay shipping twice?
I agree, it's ridiculous. Seems if the LBS wants your business, they'll find a solution.
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GonnaHurt
May 2, 12 8:25
Post #119 of 127
(1486 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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I actually read your entire thread during a conference call here at work so now that I'm up to speed I'm going to put in my $.01 worth. I'm not giving any advice because you seem to know what you can/can't do at this point.
1st - I don't blame you for being irritated. I live an hour from the nearest Specialized dealer and had some similar issues with a top of the line mountain bike several years ago. Living rural has more advantages than living in the city in my humble opinion; ACCEPT when issues like this arise.
I bought a P3 early last year (on closeout) and after driving 1 hour one way to pick it up was told that I needed to put about 150 miles on it and bring it back in to have a part on the headtube glued on. I'm not a mechanic but do enough to be dangerous; but wasn't going to dink with something to screw up any of the warranty. It was a bit irritating, but understood the need.
Hope the bike works out good for you in the long run. Considering Mr. Rapp (whom I've never spoken to but appreciate he chimes in on things to give his opinion) has one that says something. Maybe you'd lke to trade straight up for a beautiful P3 for your broken, beat to heck, not shifting, something else is bound to break soon Shiv :).
(I said I wasn't going to offer any insight, just wanted to keep the string alive in an attempt for the dealer to give you some swag for your troubles.)
prattzc
May 2, 12 8:29
Post #120 of 127
(1481 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [Tom A.]
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Removing the Cannondale Hollowgram BB30 Crankset. I COULD use a hammer, but I'm suppose to use the cannondale tool.
The point being similiar to an automotive repair shop. Yes, most auto repair shops have the tools to fix most problems on a car, but there are specialty tools as well that not ALL shops carry. Point in case, most places do NOT have a Land Rover Range Rover 2009+ tool to turn off the warning sign for the oil change. I can get my oil changed ANYWHERE, but that damn message keeps coming up. I COULD get a tech geek to figure out a way to hack the system and get rid of the message for me, but I would rather just have the tool myself to turn the damn message off. But Land Rover won't sell it to me. So I have to make an appointment to turn off a message for a problem that doesn't exist because I already got the oil changed.
The Jeep Wrangler has a similiar PC in the 2010+ editions. However, EVERY oil company I have gone to to get an oil change has the tool or knows a way to turn off or reset the message.
The Jeep is more ubiquitous than the Range Rover. THerefore more companies know about the message and how to adjust/fix it.
My point being, the more popular or standardized cranksets and BB's get, the more likely there are available tools and knowledge on how to address such problems without major loss of hair, time, money....
http://www.teamprattz.com/
styrrell
May 2, 12 9:03
Post #121 of 127
(1441 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [prattzc]
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You don't demonstrate that Bob shouldn'tbe pissed at Specialized ,just that you should be equally pissed at RR. There really isn't an excuse for a bike company to not make proprietary tools and replacement parts reasonably available to a home mechanic or shop.
In RR case its a car with a warrantee. They want you to take the care for its $100 oil change. They want the mark up and they don't want to be responsible for a warrantee repair if another place messes up. Its just not the same with bikes.
Styrrell
prattzc
May 2, 12 9:27
Post #122 of 127
(1421 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [styrrell]
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Actually, I'm pretty sure that is the reason why Specialized and others use proprietary tools. Force you to an "expert" so they don't screw it up and have a warranty issue or fight about it.
I do sympathize with Bob and his situation. Maybe I wrote that too fast and didn't convey exactly what I was trying to explain.
I think the root cause of this rant is the ability to have the right tool available to the general public to be able to handle problems in a timely manner regardless of location or proximity or "expertise". A parts list and a standardized work instruction or tool list would be nice too.
http://www.teamprattz.com/
bobby11
May 2, 12 9:58
Post #123 of 127
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Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [GonnaHurt]
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1) First, please don't blame me if you get fired for reading this entire thread while you're at work.
2) You had to take your P3 back in after 150 miles to have something glued to the head tube? WHAT??? I've owned four P3s (a P3, P3sl, 51 cm p3c in 700c and a 48cm p3c in 650c). I have no idea what in the world your dealer could be up to, but I'd ask a WHOLE lot of questions!
;-)
albush1
May 18, 12 19:28
Post #124 of 127
(1142 views)
Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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whoa, I just read your reply, even considering what you said, if I were the shop, as THE DIRECT REPRESENTIVE of Specialized, I would have driven to your house. You said, "The dealer installed the spider wrong." thereby placing the cause of your delimma squarely on the dealer, case closed. I have used snap ring pliers as others mentioned with Lock-Tite to repair these same cranks. The shop has poor customer service and have you brain washed I respectfully believe.
(This post was
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campled
May 18, 12 20:41
Post #125 of 127
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Re: Specialized -- a RANT! [bobby11]
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Wow, am I glad that the nearest bike shop is 5 mins away.
There are about 20 bike shops within 15 mins drive...depending on Manila traffic.
Try writing Lightning, i believe they make the cranks that Specialized got.
They should have the same tool?
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The New Specialized Wind Tunnel
Will this be a game changer for Specialized, in both sales and product design, or will it not move the sales and design needle versus those in Specialized's competitive set?
Yes, Game Changer
Minor move forward
Won't budge the needle
