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Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping?
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matto
May 4, 12 5:38
Post #1 of 30
(1842 views)
Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping?
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I currently have just one tri bike that I use for both training and racing.
I recently bought a Zipp 808 carbon clincher which comes with its own funky brake pads so you don't destroy the carbon rim.
I assume this means that I have now signed up to swap my brake pads every time I race, right? From what I can find these pads are not meant to be used with aluminum rims. Or is there something I'm missing?
And don't say "train on your zipp" because even if I wanted to do that (which I don't) it would mean swapping my race tire off the wheel, which is on the same level as changing the brake pads.
It's certainly not a big deal, but it is somewhat of a minor annoyance. If the 2012 Hed Jet 9 is as fast as an 808 FC (which I think we don't know because there's no data right?) this would certainly be a good tie breaker to go with the Hed.
(This post was
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by matto on May 4, 12 5:41)
Livetotri
May 4, 12 5:53
Post #2 of 30
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Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [matto]
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You have those special brake pads because it's a "Carbon Clincher" with a carbon brake track.
So yes, swapping the pads is necessary in between wheel swaps, unless you wanted to get aluminum shards in your carbon. Which you don't.
Another option is to check before each swap. If there's no aluminum, good to go (pretty risky, since the aluminum can be buried in the brake pad and then resurface while braking, or you may just miss it). Or, you can file it down a bit before every ride.
But your best bet is just swapping them. It really only takes 5 minutes max, takes me 2 minutes per wheel, and if you don't have one of those super annoying BB-brakes, ala the felts, sc, P4/5 (I think?), then it's not so tough.
What bike are you riding.
Oh and yes, the 808 fc is fast. Real fast. But some people opt for an aluminum brake track to avoid this minor...annoyance. Hey, bike maintenance is half the fun anyways, amiright?!?
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Eli Curt Fuld
concededpenguin
May 4, 12 5:53
Post #3 of 30
(1816 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [matto]
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Yeah you need to swap pads every time. The pads are meant for carbon rims (they're silver Tangente pads, or maybe cork pads, right?). Even if you have a pad that's designed to function with both carbon and aluminum, with those wheels you shouldn't use the pads as such as it apparently voids the warranty.
List of approved non-warranty-voiding pads:
http://zipp.com/...enance/brakepads.php
I just train on my 808 carbon clinchers because they stay on my tri bike, I hate changing pads, and my Powertap is built into the rear.
joshatzipp
May 4, 12 6:20
Post #4 of 30
(1795 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [concededpenguin]
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Unfortunately this is the nature of any carbon rim, the risk to the rim of having aluminum shards embedded in your pad is too great for most.
on the plus side for you, there IS great independent data on the 808FC vs Jet9 and many others from Tour Magazine Germany.
http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011
article starts on P96
Enjoy your wheels!
Josh
jackmott
May 4, 12 6:22
Post #5 of 30
(1789 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [joshatzipp]
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unfortunately the Jets changed in 2012! so we need tour to get at it again!
joshatzipp wrote:
Unfortunately this is the nature of any carbon rim, the risk to the rim of having aluminum shards embedded in your pad is too great for most.
on the plus side for you, there IS great independent data on the 808FC vs Jet9 and many others from Tour Magazine Germany.
http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011
article starts on P96
Enjoy your wheels!
Josh
Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
concededpenguin
May 4, 12 6:22
Post #6 of 30
(1787 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [joshatzipp]
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That article is why I sprung for the Firecrest 808s!
1ontrack1
May 4, 12 6:30
Post #7 of 30
(1764 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [matto]
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I'm in the same boat. Bought new FC 808s as race wheels this year. Have been training with them but on really windy days swap out the front 808 for my not so deep training wheel so I have to swap out the pads. I bought a second set of brake shoes so I have brake shoes with the black rubber for my training rims and now have a set of brake shoes with the SwissStop yellow pads for my carbon rims. Swapping shoes now takes just a matter of minutes because I'm not having to take the pad out of the shoe.
Going to take a bit of getting used to the 808 up front, I find it really squirrly in any crosswind. Just a matter of gaining confidence thats all...I hope.
btmoney
May 4, 12 6:34
Post #8 of 30
(1752 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [concededpenguin]
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You dropped $2500 based on one article?
Must be nice...
____________________________
concededpenguin
May 4, 12 6:35
Post #9 of 30
(1746 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [btmoney]
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Nope, I spent the extra money over what I would have spent on something like HED on Zipps instead.
jackmott
May 4, 12 6:36
Post #10 of 30
(1741 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [btmoney]
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btmoney wrote:
You dropped $2500 based on one article?
Must be nice...
based on an article with a fairly well designed objective test.
whereas most people drop $2500 based on brand recognition or 'personal experience'.
So, this man is in fact a hero of sensibility and of logic and science. In comparison.
Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
grosso27
May 4, 12 6:44
Post #11 of 30
(1723 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [matto]
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Yep. Swap pads every time you swap wheels. Takes all of 2 minutes tops though, so it's hard to classify as even a minor inconvenience.
Do yourself a favor & leave the little screws out to save time.
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btmoney
May 4, 12 6:50
Post #12 of 30
(1711 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [jackmott]
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Whats your approx flight time today? (Taped cup and all...)
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jackmott
May 4, 12 6:51
Post #13 of 30
(1705 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [btmoney]
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btmoney wrote:
Whats your approx flight time today? (Taped cup and all...)
don't know yet, around 10:00am or so, mountain time
thats my wife's flight time, not mine.
I'm just spectating.
Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
btmoney
May 4, 12 6:53
Post #14 of 30
(1698 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [jackmott]
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Ah damn I thought you were going out there too. Well much luck to her! Hope she has recovered from yesterday.
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jackmott
May 4, 12 6:55
Post #15 of 30
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Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [btmoney]
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btmoney wrote:
Ah damn I thought you were going out there too. Well much luck to her! Hope she has recovered from yesterday.
right now she wishes she was dead! lol
Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
matto
May 4, 12 7:27
Post #16 of 30
(1662 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [joshatzipp]
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joshatzipp wrote:
Unfortunately this is the nature of any carbon rim, the risk to the rim of having aluminum shards embedded in your pad is too great for most.
on the plus side for you, there IS great independent data on the 808FC vs Jet9 and many others from Tour Magazine Germany.
http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011
article starts on P96
Hi Josh, thanks for chiming in.
Like I said, I consider it a tie-breaker, not a deal breaker. I'm willing to jump through some hoops to have the fastest equipment. That way when I don't win I have no excuse other than my lack of talent.
But as Jack pointed out the 2012 Hed are new so that data is no longer relevant. More testing needed!
(This post was
edited
by matto on May 4, 12 7:28)
joshatzipp
May 4, 12 8:07
Post #17 of 30
(1620 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [matto]
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Having done that testing already I can say that you're in great shape!
Additionally the 9mm reduction in depth gives the 808 roughly 10% less side force, and despite the remarkable similarity in the SCT shape to the Firecrest shape the 808 maintains a much more neutral and stable center of pressure across a wide range of yaw angles.
Enjoy them!
dededon
May 4, 12 8:19
Post #18 of 30
(1606 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [joshatzipp]
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no one's mentioned swiss stop yellow:
The
Yellow King
pad compound is specifically made for use with carbon fiber rims. They provide unparalleled stopping power in both wet and dry conditions. They give you high durability, quiet braking, and perhaps best of all, excellent stopping power with aluminum rims as well. SwissStop makes it clear that there's no need to swap out pads from carbon-specific to non if you switch wheels from your carbon race-day gems to your aluminum training set. However, we'd recommend always checking your pads and removing aluminum debris before installing your carbon racing wheels. Any metal flakes embedded in the pads could be disastrous for your composite rims!
concededpenguin
May 4, 12 9:21
Post #19 of 30
(1545 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [dededon]
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SwissStop Yellows are on Zipp's approved carbon pads list, but who would take a chance with not switching pads and potentially ruining very expensive carbon rims?
Record10Carbon
May 4, 12 9:23
Post #20 of 30
(1535 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [Livetotri]
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I have seen lots of stuff, I mean lots and lots and lots of wacky JRA shit....I have not however, ever seen these mysterious "Aluminum Shards"...hell, I have seen staples in brake pads (that the rider did not remove to take out before the installation). But never these Aluminum Shards.
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Livetotri
May 4, 12 9:26
Post #21 of 30
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Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [R10C]
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R10C wrote:
I have seen lots of stuff, I mean lots and lots and lots of wacky JRA shit....I have not however, ever seen these mysterious "Aluminum Shards"...hell, I have seen staples in brake pads (that the rider did not remove to take out before the installation). But never these Aluminum Shards.
Nor have I.
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http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/linear-pull-brake-service-v-brake-type
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Record10Carbon
May 4, 12 9:28
Post #22 of 30
(1523 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [Livetotri]
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That is off of a mountain bike...an old old old poorly maintained mountain bike. I have never seen them on a road bike - period. MTN, sure. Cross, sure. Road? Never.
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Livetotri
May 4, 12 9:29
Post #23 of 30
(1520 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [R10C]
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The difference being?
..not arguing, learning.
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Eli Curt Fuld
Record10Carbon
May 4, 12 9:37
Post #24 of 30
(1509 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [Livetotri]
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There is much more shit on a MTN bike rim (used to be anyways, now with Disks it is no longer a rim worry). So, you get your rim covered in mud, that mud get between your pad and rim - then you grind it in. Then, you go season after season on your old rims (another thing is the new rim facing SUP and the such). So,l you have this wacky grinding every time you hit the brakes - and just leave it, for a year or five. The Shards dont start till you have either eaten into the seam, or caused a circular track around the entire surface of the rim (again, because you are deaf or careless). So, then you go to the LBS because you keep patching your tube that keeps popping off of the rim....the shop explains to you that you keep getting flats because a big chunk of the sidewall of the rim is missing...and it is then displayed with a toothless smile by the proud owner of the Free Spirit mountain bike in question - "This was hitting the bar thing" (holding a section of the sidewall). So, you offer to sell him a used rim for $20 (wheel and all)...but he is far more intent on beer and smokes than the bike and leaves pissed (with out the bike).
Only on later inspection do you notice that the brake pad has these devastating "Aluminum Shards" embedded into it.
----------------------------------------------------------
What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
concededpenguin
May 4, 12 10:49
Post #25 of 30
(1465 views)
Re: Zipp carbon clincher + one tri bike = lots of brake pad swapping? [R10C]
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Funny response!
However, I always assumed that the shards to which people referred weren't giant, easily-visible pieces of metal, but more like little slivers of aluminum that you might see with a flashlight that would eventually eat away the brake track of your carbon rim. I figured the problem was less that a big metal shard would get stuck and gouge a trench in your brake track and just that lots of barely-visible shards would eat away the carbon over a fairly short period.
Is this incorrect?
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