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Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case?
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Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 13:03
Post #76 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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PS and as a citizen in no way am I obligated to answer some random guys question as to what I am doing or where I am going
PPS what kind of man feels the need to kill a giraffe?
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 13:03
Post #77 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Sure, but say Zimmerman walked up to this kid (who was on his way from Eagle Scouts to MENSA meetings) and the kid did throw a punch, and the kid was on top of Zimmerman - as some claim...then Zimmerman did the exact right thing.
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
rick_pcfl
Apr 25, 12 13:05
Post #78 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
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Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
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dannynoonan
Apr 25, 12 13:14
Post #79 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [burnman]
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I must be one of the few who doesn't see "we don't need you to do that" as a command not to.
If I was telling you not to do something I would say "don't do that" or "please don't do that".
The top is a suggestion. The bottom is a command.
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 13:21
Post #80 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [rick_pcfl]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
and where would that right be enumerated?
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 13:22
Post #81 of 201
(969 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [dannynoonan]
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Regardless - if some kid was in YOUR neighborhood, looking at your (or your neighbors
crib
), he was an innocent enough looking
gangsta
and you were calling the police (and we of course presume that there was action a bit more intense than bipedal forward motion on a sidewalk to give you a suggestion that potentially you should call the police). So anyways, this well adjusted kid (when he is not in special schools and suspended) is JWA (just walking along) and you call the police about his curious - um - posture? They ask you to not follow him (again, this is an operator, not a lawful order). So, the 911 operator is now fearful that if they do instruct you to follow the Eagle Scout, you too may possibly get....what? Bad posture?
No, hell no. ANY TIME you are following someone they tell you to stop, even if it is a drunk driver. If there was a 911 tape where he was told to follow and then the "perp" turned and shot - that is one hell of a suit. They always always always tell you to not follow - of course again, for fear of catching bad posture. The impetus however lies on you if you want to persist in your efforts or let the police drive in an hour later and claim to not have seen anything.
Knowing many many people on this site - I can say that I bet most of us would investigate what was going on. He would in "our" hoods....just not in the "'jects".
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
M~
Apr 25, 12 13:25
Post #82 of 201
(963 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [rick_pcfl]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
Public street. Pretty sure you can drive wherver the heck you want. Same with a public sidewalk.
Although this was a gated community wasn't it? So I don't know how that works
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 13:27
Post #83 of 201
(961 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [M~]
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Gated, you mean as in the neighborhood that our favorite scholar Trevon had no business being in? Is that the one?
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
rick_pcfl
Apr 25, 12 13:27
Post #84 of 201
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Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Rufus T. wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
and where would that right be enumerated?
You're getting desperate now. I think you'd be better off going to another thread.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com
M~
Apr 25, 12 13:29
Post #85 of 201
(959 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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R10C wrote:
Gated, you mean as in the neighborhood that our favorite scholar Trevon had no business being in? Is that the one?
I guess, I have no idea. Is a gated community considered private property (street included)?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 13:33
Post #86 of 201
(957 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [dannynoonan]
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dannynoonan wrote:
I must be one of the few who doesn't see "we don't need you to do that" as a command not to.
If I was telling you not to do something I would say "don't do that" or "please don't do that".
The top is a suggestion. The bottom is a command.
I don't see it as a command, I do see it as instruction
see the guy was on the neighborhood
watch
, not the neighborhood interrogate, not the neighborhood detain
and if he was on the official neighborhood watch I'm pretty sure there are instructions as to what they are and aren't supposed to do I would guess that he most likely knew that what he was doing was beyond the scope of what he was supposed to do
so I don't choose to believe that he knew what he was doing was "wrong", but that's my belief not proven fact, I guess when the trial starts we'll know if he had any "watch" training
any of you who are on a neighborhood watch feel free to chime in on what your instructions are
Danno
Apr 25, 12 13:40
Post #87 of 201
(949 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Rufus T. wrote:
burnman wrote:
"
911 dispatcher
" and "
police
" are not interchangeable terms.
I stand corrected, I guess that when the 911 dispatcher said "we do not need you to do that" the "we" referred to the collective of 911 dispatchers and not the police
You might also take note that "we do not need you to do that" is not an instruction to stop doing it. At best, it's a suggestion. If the 911 dispatcher (or the police for that matter) wanted to instruct him not to follow, they could have -- and should have -- said "stop following him." I know a few cops and none of them have any trouble issuing clear orders when they want a citizen to do (or stop doing) something.
Edited to add
: I see dannynoonan beat me to the punch. What he said.
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Member, Guru Cartel, eh?
"If Jens Voigt was a country, his principle exports would be Pain, Suffering, and Agony."
(This post was
edited
by Danno on Apr 25, 12 13:42)
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 13:42
Post #88 of 201
(946 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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How about this guy....lets have a RIOT baby!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOP2TuanjMA
----------------------------------------------------------
What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 13:59
Post #89 of 201
(933 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [rick_pcfl]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
Rufus T. wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
and where would that right be enumerated?
You're getting desperate now. I think you'd be better off going to another thread.
that's odd.... I'm somewhat fluent in desperation and my translation sounds more like "I don't have any idea where that is enumerated and my quick Wikipedia search didn't help so I'll try and throw him off with a vitriolic and demeaning response"
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 14:05
Post #90 of 201
(928 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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R10C wrote:
Gated, you mean as in the neighborhood that our favorite scholar Trevon had no business being in? Is that the one?
it's been widely reported that the kids dad, who he was visiting, lived in said gated community
is it your contention that the dad didn't live in the community or that kids have no business visiting their fathers?
CruseVegas
Apr 25, 12 14:28
Post #91 of 201
(919 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
Quote:
It didn't make the news until it became a huge story in the black community. Why was it a huge story when plenty of other blacks got murdered as well? Because they are sick and tired of the imbalance in justice in America. It's not difficult to go look up the stats, but white on black crime has historically come with far different penalties than black on white crime.
None of this changes the facts of the Martin/Zimmerman incident, but it explains the REAL reason why it made the news.
Zimmerman isn't white.
Dude, Rodred covered this in great detail some time ago,,,, he is a Tan Cracker!
************************
"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 14:29
Post #92 of 201
(916 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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So the kid was not way out of the direction of the store or home then, is that your contention. He was after all just going to the store to get a tea and some skittles....
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
BarryP
Apr 25, 12 14:31
Post #93 of 201
(912 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Rufus,
There were a lot of issues that lead to this problem. Assuming, the best we can, that the information we have now is correct and Zimmerman stalked Treyvon, maybe yelled at him and pointed stern fingers at him, and Treyvon jumed him and attacked him, here's what we can say:
Treyvon likely had every right to be in that community.
Zimmerman had every right to approach him.
Zimmerman had every right to hastle him, even *if* solely or being black on a Friday.
Had the dispatcher wanted Zimmerman *not* to engage Treyvon, he should have firmly stated it. What gave was a suggestion, not an order. The is a subtle but important difference.
Treyvon had every right to look lik eless than a respectable upstanding citizen.
Zimmerman had every right to carry a conceled weapon.
Where things went wrong - assuming Treyvon intitated the attack, treyvon did not have the right to jump zimmerman....even if zimmerman said "your mom's pussy stinks."
Zimmerman had the right to shoot zimmerman if necessary to avoid serious bodily harm (the head wound looked pretty serious).
Zimmerman was foolish, iresponsible, and negligent at least in so far as he shoul dhave been able to better protect himself and avoid getting jumped in the first place.
Treyvon was a stupid teenager that thought (again, to th ebest of our knowledge) that he could just beat up an old man because he didn't like the guy's attitude.
Again, it's very unfortunate the way it turned out and I think Zimmerman could have controlled the situation so that it woul dnot have resulted in this. However, there are far too many stupid teenagers who think they can solve their problems with fighting.
Now if Zimmerman grabbed him, made a threatening move toward him, or pulled his gun on him, then Treyvon had every right to defend himself.
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
rick_pcfl
Apr 25, 12 14:34
Post #94 of 201
(906 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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that's odd.... I'm somewhat fluent in desperation and my translation sounds more like "I don't have any idea where that is enumerated and my quick Wikipedia search didn't help so I'll try and throw him off with a vitriolic and demeaning response"
You may need to upgrade your translation software then. I'm pretty sure that the founding fathers realized that they did not need to spell out every specific right, nor could they. so, I didn't bother searching Wikipedia nor anything else.
You seem to be the legal scholar though, can you point me to the case where the SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to approach strangers and ask them if they belonged in the neighborhood? While you're at it, can you point me to the case where the SCOTUS ruled that an appropriate response to such a question is punching them and then trying to ground their head in the sidewalk?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com
CruseVegas
Apr 25, 12 14:36
Post #95 of 201
(901 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [rick_pcfl]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
And I don't know how you'd like to characterize the confrontation, but when an armed guy is following somebody and
gets out of his car (against police instruction)
to
pursue
his subject of foot I would characterize it as he initiated the confrontation.
here we go again...
This just goes to show how powerful and persuasive it is to continue to repeat a lie and how it will become fact in the minds of those who are like Lemmings.
************************
"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 14:39
Post #96 of 201
(890 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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Can I send you a prize?
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 14:40
Post #97 of 201
(889 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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R10C wrote:
So the kid was not way out of the direction of the store or home then, is that your contention. He was after all just going to the store to get a tea and some skittles....
You said he had no business being there, I pointed out that his dad lived there, that was about the extent of of it.
I didn't say anything about where he was inside the neighborhood.
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 14:43
Post #98 of 201
(884 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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I both hope, and fear the day that Zimmerman walks out of court a free (unconvinced) man. The riots should be entertaining to watch....
----------------------------------------------------------
What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Danno
Apr 25, 12 14:44
Post #99 of 201
(882 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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R10C wrote:
Can I send you a prize?
At least he didn't ask you to marry him. ;-p
-------------
Member, Guru Cartel, eh?
"If Jens Voigt was a country, his principle exports would be Pain, Suffering, and Agony."
CruseVegas
Apr 25, 12 14:46
Post #100 of 201
(878 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Rufus T. wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
So you don't think that someone who is driving in their neighborhood has the right to question another person in the neighborhood if they don't recognize them or think they should be there?
On a different note. I think we found who Tasha Texas was.
and where would that right be enumerated?
You don't think people have the right to start a conversation with a stranger on the street?
************************
"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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