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Torhans straw mast
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PaperChase
Apr 25, 12 12:25
Post #51 of 109
(1654 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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According to this article from Lava magazine (Sept. 2011), a bottle mounted horizontally on aerobars is the most aerodynamically effective method of hydration. This was tested in the wind tunnel.
"
Conclusion
So what did we learn from all of these tests? The big lesson was that a bottle mounted horizontally between your arms (but it must be between your arms, not too high or low) makes you faster—even faster than no bottle at all! That should probably be your first choice for regular drinking. The aerodynamics of this position combined with the fact that it is always in front of you reminding you to drink makes it a great choice.
Read more:
Free Speed: Cervélo’s Tips on Aerodynamic Hydration : LAVA Magazine
http://lavamagazine.com/...ation/#ixzz1t58NQY60
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 12:30
Post #52 of 109
(1650 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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Well aware of that article. However, they never tested our system. We have tested a bottle between the arms in a very fair and objective test. Our airfoil shaped systems will always be fast, no matter what the position, length or width of the aero bars.
A cylinder between the arms can be fast like the article and Cervelo mentioned. But it will not be as fast as ours in all set ups. They may sound bold, but we have done enough testing, other manufactures have tested our bottles, and even a well known coach tested his athletes using the chung method, to the point we're we are very confident on making that assertion.
I hope Lava, Cervelo, Triathlete Mag tests our products in the near future.
Hans
http://www.torhans.com
PaperChase
Apr 25, 12 12:44
Post #53 of 109
(1642 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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I don't believe you.
Has your product ever been tested by an unbiased third party? Not sure if Lava magazine is exactly unbiased, but even though they did not test your product, their conclusion says that a horizontal bottle set up between the arms is faster than having no bottle at all, which is at odds with your claim.
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 12:55
Post #54 of 109
(1634 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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PaperChase wrote:
I don't believe you.
Has your product ever been tested by an unbiased third party? Not sure if Lava magazine is exactly unbiased, but even though they did not test your product, their conclusion says that a horizontal bottle set up between the arms is faster than having no bottle at all, which is at odds with your claim.
Actually, yes our products have been tested by other frame manufactures, and they have told me their results are the same as ours. I have some of those results, but we are not going to publish 3rd party data, that is not fair for a number of reasons. But no, Lava or any other publication has not. Probably because our products are so new to the market.
I don't dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info. If an athlete likes this system then great.Use it. It is very cheap to do.
I do know for a fact, that if you do not 'hide' this bottle in this way (flat,narrow extensions, hands in front of the bottle, an airfoil shape (Aero 20/30) of equivalent volume will be faster than the cylinder shape of a bottle on all set ups.
Again, I hope this is tested by 3rd party media/blogsite in the near future. I will even send them the bottles for the test.
Hans
http://www.torhans.com
The_Mickstar
Apr 25, 12 13:03
Post #55 of 109
(1625 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Did you do any testing of your bottle on bikes with non-aero headtubes? If so, care to share the results?
I would guess that it may actually improve the aerodynamics. However, alot probably depends on the length of the headtube and just how close you get the bottle to the headtube.
Steve
"If you ain't first, you're last."
Ricky Bobby
Talladega Nights
PaperChase
Apr 25, 12 13:10
Post #56 of 109
(1619 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Your two responses seem to contradict each other...
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I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike.
Quote:
I don't dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info.
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 13:16
Post #57 of 109
(1617 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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PaperChase wrote:
Your two responses seem to contradict each other...
Quote:
I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike.
Quote:
I don't dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info.
Nope. I believe we would have had similar or better results on the mannequin. They did not test it, and I'm just pointing out that I don't dispute their results.
Tell you what, if you ever go to the wind tunnel yourself, or have a friend that is going, I'll send you bottles to test. Fair enough?
http://www.torhans.com
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 13:17
Post #58 of 109
(1614 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [The_Mickstar]
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Hey Steve,
We do have another test planned this September. I'll test this and share the results then.
Thanks,
Hans
http://www.torhans.com
PaperChase
Apr 25, 12 13:19
Post #59 of 109
(1612 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Are you saying that your products will make the rider faster than if they didn't have any bottle at all? Is this what your tests show?
If not, then your statements contradict each other.
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 13:25
Post #60 of 109
(1609 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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Ok man, this will be my last post on this. Check out our aerodynamics section to see how we conducted our test. Also check back on our new website that will be launched in a week or so that will also have our CFD results.
To directly answer your question. No the only time our test showed no increase in drag, including a bottle between the arms, was our Aero 30 at 15 degrees yaw, it achieved a high side force (max lift) at this yaw.
Would our products have tested as well during Cervelo's test? I think they would've, but that is only my opinion. We were not there, and they did not test our products.
http://www.torhans.com
PaperChase
Apr 25, 12 13:27
Post #61 of 109
(1608 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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Hans, why don't you send me some bottles when you have all the bugs worked out. Or you can use me as a beta tester on future versions and I can give you some more feedback. Fair enough?
In the meantime, please send me two splash barriers when they become available.
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 13:32
Post #62 of 109
(1602 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
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Sure, email me. Hans@torhans.com
http://www.torhans.com
RedLizard
Apr 25, 12 13:44
Post #63 of 109
(1594 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Ted Striker wrote:
Sure, email me. Hans@torhans.com
If I piss and moan long enough in a public forum with nothing constructive to add, can I get some, too??
waupaca11
Apr 25, 12 14:06
Post #64 of 109
(1586 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [RedLizard]
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RedLizard wrote:
Ted Striker wrote:
Sure, email me. Hans@torhans.com
If I piss and moan long enough in a public forum with nothing constructive to add, can I get some, too??
Pissing and moaning contradict each other. Please send me a free bottle now, dammit!
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 14:12
Post #65 of 109
(1584 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [RedLizard]
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RedLizard wrote:
Ted Striker wrote:
Sure, email me. Hans@torhans.com
If I piss and moan long enough in a public forum with nothing constructive to add, can I get some, too??
Because you are a funny dude...yes. Hans@torhans.com
http://www.torhans.com
Alfalfameister
Apr 25, 12 15:36
Post #66 of 109
(1567 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Ted Striker wrote:
RedLizard wrote:
Ted Striker wrote:
Sure, email me. Hans@torhans.com
If I piss and moan long enough in a public forum with nothing constructive to add, can I get some, too??
Because you are a funny dude...yes. Hans@torhans.com
LOL!
Too bad I have to wait for the local distributor (Philippines) to get some (I have the Aero30). And, I will have to pay for it.
BUT, even if I pay for it, I ain't bitchin' and moanin'... Haha!
Bmanners
Apr 25, 12 16:59
Post #67 of 109
(1531 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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Ted Striker wrote:
PaperChase wrote:
Your two responses seem to contradict each other...
Quote:
I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike.
Quote:
I don't dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info.
Nope. I believe we would have had similar or better results on the mannequin. They did not test it, and I'm just pointing out that I don't dispute their results.
Tell you what, if you ever go to the wind tunnel yourself, or have a friend that is going, I'll send you bottles to test. Fair enough?
I will be going to the A2wind tunnel and will take you up on that offer
__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
Ted Striker
Apr 25, 12 19:53
Post #68 of 109
(1497 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Bmanners]
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Sure, when are you headed out there. I'll send A2 some new bottles. I think they just have an old Aero 30 there.
Hans
http://www.torhans.com
Bmanners
Apr 26, 12 5:07
Post #69 of 109
(1457 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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I probably will not have a chance till late summer early fall.
__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
JSong
Apr 26, 12 14:24
Post #70 of 109
(1425 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [calsbeek]
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Purchased a 2nd generation Trohans 30 because my old one was turning black on the inside. Decided to give the mast a shot. Ended up tossing it away at the first bike aid station.
LSUfan4444
Apr 27, 12 5:47
Post #71 of 109
(1380 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [PaperChase]
(Deleted by LSUfan4444)
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LSUfan4444
Apr 27, 12 6:23
Post #72 of 109
(1369 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [JSong]
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I'd like tp purchase a couple of the internal splash guards - does anyone know if they sell them? I looked on the site and didn't see anything.
PaperChase
Apr 27, 12 6:41
Post #73 of 109
(1357 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [LSUfan4444]
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All you've got to do to get free Torhans stuff is complain a lot and accuse Hans of contradticting himself. Raise some hell! It worked for me.
Just kidding. Send Hans an email and he'll take care of you. Their customer service is top notch.
Ted Striker
Apr 27, 12 7:21
Post #74 of 109
(1341 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [LSUfan4444]
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Less than 30 days for the all new splash barriers. !00% splash proof hard snap cover should be around July 1.
Hans
http://www.torhans.com
KP-NJ
Apr 30, 12 13:13
Post #75 of 109
(1251 views)
Re: Torhans straw mast [Ted Striker]
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A quick side-bar to horizontal between the arms mounted bottles: While I can't dispute that bottles mounted between the arms is aerodynamically superior in many setups, shorter riders (myself included) may have shorter aerobar extensions that sometimes can not accommodate a bottle. For me, the screw top portion of a bottle mounted horizontally, comes to about where a watch band would be on my wrist. Since I'm most comfortable riding with my hands touching together out front, a horizontal mount is not possible. Needless to say, I ordered a Torhans 20 this morning...we'll see what happens! If anyone has any other options, fire away!
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