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6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes
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big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 12:37
Post #1 of 70
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6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes
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Well, not everyone. Certainly not responsible gun owners, and some of the smart folks here on both sides of the gun control debate. But a lot of the gun grabbers I've known buy into many of these myths, especially #5.
http://www.cracked.com/...hanks-to-movies.html
6. Dropped guns go off (yeah, right).
5. Full-on ceramic guns are an actual thing.
4. Bullets make everything spark.
3. Shotguns are room-clearing murder factories.
2. Deadly on the gun range, deadly in real life (not hardly).
1. Bullets turn people into pulp
("The impact of the bullet upon the body is no more than the recoil of the weapon. The ratio of bullet mass to target mass is too extreme.")
This last one always makes me laugh, because I've seen cases of guys taking two or three .38 or .45 or 9mm rounds and still turning around and being able to run like they were Carl Lewis at the '84 Olympics. That's one reason why you're trained to follow blood trails after a fire fight. Unless, of course, the bad guy takes one right in the brain housing group, but chances are that, these days, he's probably a zombie and would get right back up and eat your arm off or something.
Hubblesmith
Apr 16, 12 12:48
Post #2 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Here are some additional ones that I run into:
* Machine guns are illegal.
* Silencers (suppressors) are illegal.
* Shooting a propane tank will make a giant explosion.
* Civilians are less competent with firearms than government employees.
* Shooting out a window on an airliner will take down the plane.
* Teflon coated pistol rounds will penetrate a ballistic vest.
YaHey
Apr 16, 12 12:52
Post #3 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Another myth, "guns" aren't a reference to your arms
JSA
Apr 16, 12 12:54
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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#5 is bullshit. I have seen them myself:
_______________________________________________
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YaHey
Apr 16, 12 12:56
Post #5 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Another myth - guns are edible...
Wait, these are made of ice, so I guess they are edible!
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 12:56
Post #6 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [Hubblesmith]
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Hubblesmith wrote:
Here are some additional ones that I run into:
* Machine guns are illegal.
* Silencers (suppressors) are illegal.
* Shooting a propane tank will make a giant explosion.
* Civilians are less competent with firearms than government employees.
* Shooting out a window on an airliner will take down the plane.
* Teflon coated pistol rounds will penetrate a ballistic vest.
I love those, especially the ones about the suppressors (handguns and rifles with them are still loud), the propane tank (lots of folks think that) and the window on the airliner (that one's been a staple of movies since at least 1970's "Airport," though it actually was more grounded in physics than other depictions of a decompression event. I mean, look at that Aloha Airlines flight in 1988, in which the top forward third of the fuselage's skin peeled away. And a lot of folks believe that gag about teflon-coated bullets. Nope, give me Hydra-Shok hollow points any day of the week. They're really good for zombie Olympics events. ;-)
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 12:59
Post #7 of 70
(2293 views)
Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [YaHey]
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YaHey wrote:
Another myth - guns are edible...
Wait, these are made of ice, so I guess they are edible!
Some of 'em are wooden, too. John Dillinger's famous fake gun he used to bust out of the joint:
Old Hickory
Apr 16, 12 13:07
Post #8 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Re: #2. A friend of mine goes to a shooting farm where they practice what might be typical in a gun fight. He also competes in these types of things.
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 13:14
Post #9 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [Old Hickory]
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Old Hickory wrote:
Re: #2. A friend of mine goes to a shooting farm where they practice what might be typical in a gun fight. He also competes in these types of things.
Well, you fight like you train, so the more real-world simulation you can get the better for you if you're in a real gunplay type situation. Adrenalin, confusing tactical pictures, the lack of cover and concealment and so forth all comes into play in these kinds of deals so I can see why #2 would apply. Out in the field we used to secretly laugh at the doctors and nurses running around with their sharp-looking M9s in their nicely polished black leather shoulder holsters because, man, if it ever got down to where we were going to need the help of the nurses with their 9mms to regain the initiative from the enemy putting pressure on their position then we also should think about teaching them all how to throw the damn things at the bad guys because that would probably do more damage. ;-)
veganerd
Apr 16, 12 13:19
Post #10 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Both 6 and 2 are certainly not inaccurate, dropped guns can fire and guns are deadly.
enemy of epilepsy
Rambler
Apr 16, 12 13:32
Post #11 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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#6 Maybe so but the scene where Walter drops the Uzi in the Big Lebowski is still funny as shit.
The other one I like on the old cops shows: Bad guy with a scoped rifle takes careful aim at the hero, misses, hero pulls out out a .38 with a 2" barrel and drops the bad guy.
TheForge
Apr 16, 12 13:34
Post #12 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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big kahuna wrote:
Hubblesmith wrote:
Here are some additional ones that I run into:
* Machine guns are illegal.
* Silencers (suppressors) are illegal.
* Shooting a propane tank will make a giant explosion.
* Civilians are less competent with firearms than government employees.
* Shooting out a window on an airliner will take down the plane.
* Teflon coated pistol rounds will penetrate a ballistic vest.
I love those, especially the ones about the suppressors (
handguns and rifles with them are still loud
), the propane tank (lots of folks think that) and the window on the airliner (that one's been a staple of movies since at least 1970's "Airport," though it actually was more grounded in physics than other depictions of a decompression event. I mean, look at that Aloha Airlines flight in 1988, in which the top forward third of the fuselage's skin peeled away. And a lot of folks believe that gag about teflon-coated bullets. Nope, give me Hydra-Shok hollow points any day of the week. They're really good for zombie Olympics events. ;-)
Yes and no. Any supersonic bullet will still break the sound barrier and make a crack sound. However, it will do it at the point of impact for the target and point of origin for the shooter. The gas escaping will not make the boom, only the action will make a sound at the source of the gun fire. This prevents triangulation for locating snipers. Now if you have subsonic loads, they are virtually soundless. But most 9mm, some .40 and almost all rifle loads that get you distance are supersonic.
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 13:37
Post #13 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [veganerd]
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veganerd wrote:
Both 6 and 2 are certainly not inaccurate, dropped guns can fire and guns are deadly.
It's exceedingly rare for any dropped pistol or rifle, even a semi-automatic (hell, especially a semi-automatic) to fire if it's dropped. I never saw a rifle or handgun dropped in the field -- either by my own guys or by the enemy, who in the first Gulf War, would drop them and run almost as soon as they came into contact with opposing fire -- go off, and these were "cocked, locked, and ready to rock" type weapons we're talking about. Of course, range safety and rules for weapons safety always assume that a loaded weapon when dropped could fire, and they should, but the actual "mis-fire event" is so rare it's...well, rare.
As far as any handgun or rifle being "deadly" per se, yes, but they're just inanimate objects that are wielded by their operators. It's the people using the weapons that are deadly, and most people caught up in an actual tactical situation -- even many police officers and other security type personal -- won't be as deadly as they might think. Handguns are more personal sidearms, and they're almost completely combat ineffective, in my experience. Like I said: Better you learn how to throw them very hard at an onrushing enemy troop than to spend hours and hours firing them at a range because you have a better chance of beaning, and knocking out cold, the bad guy you hit with the pistol than the bullet you might, by chance, put into him.
That's why I'm a big fan of 15 and 17-round handguns, because I'm a "maximum rounds downrange" kind of guy rather than a "stopping power" guy. I'd rather be able to just throw out a big lead (copper, actually) curtain in front of the person doing the menacing in hopes of him or her running into that curtain than to chance on trying to hit the guy with a bigger round with more so-called "stopping power" based on my awesome pistol prowess. ;-)
(This post was
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by big kahuna on Apr 16, 12 13:40)
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 13:40
Post #14 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [TheForge]
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TheForge wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Hubblesmith wrote:
Here are some additional ones that I run into:
* Machine guns are illegal.
* Silencers (suppressors) are illegal.
* Shooting a propane tank will make a giant explosion.
* Civilians are less competent with firearms than government employees.
* Shooting out a window on an airliner will take down the plane.
* Teflon coated pistol rounds will penetrate a ballistic vest.
I love those, especially the ones about the suppressors (
handguns and rifles with them are still loud
), the propane tank (lots of folks think that) and the window on the airliner (that one's been a staple of movies since at least 1970's "Airport," though it actually was more grounded in physics than other depictions of a decompression event. I mean, look at that Aloha Airlines flight in 1988, in which the top forward third of the fuselage's skin peeled away. And a lot of folks believe that gag about teflon-coated bullets. Nope, give me Hydra-Shok hollow points any day of the week. They're really good for zombie Olympics events. ;-)
Yes and no. Any supersonic bullet will still break the sound barrier and make a crack sound. However, it will do it at the point of impact for the target and point of origin for the shooter. The gas escaping will not make the boom, only the action will make a sound at the source of the gun fire. This prevents triangulation for locating snipers. Now if you have subsonic loads, they are virtually soundless. But most 9mm, some .40 and almost all rifle loads that get you distance are supersonic.
I agree with you about subsonic rounds and you see them used in the "door kicker" business sometimes (like with an MP5-SD, which is made with that purpose in mind), but there's really still no such thing that I've seen where the bullets exiting the barrel do so with only a "pffffft!" or other shussing-type sound. Still, what's that saying? "You never hear the round that takes you out," right? ;-)
TheForge
Apr 16, 12 13:40
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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big kahuna wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
Re: #2. A friend of mine goes to a shooting farm where they practice what might be typical in a gun fight. He also competes in these types of things.
Well, you fight like you train, so the more real-world simulation you can get the better for you if you're in a real gunplay type situation. Adrenalin, confusing tactical pictures, the lack of cover and concealment and so forth all comes into play in these kinds of deals so I can see why #2 would apply. Out in the field we used to secretly laugh at the doctors and nurses running around with their sharp-looking M9s in their nicely polished black leather shoulder holsters because, man, if it ever got down to where we were going to need the help of the nurses with their 9mms to regain the initiative from the enemy putting pressure on their position then we also should think about teaching them all how to throw the damn things at the bad guys because that would probably do more damage. ;-)
I was really into 3-gun shooting until I got addicted to triathlons. You adjust to it accordingly. The first few matches and the adrenaline can be overwhelming. But soon you committ your movements to muscle memory. Like fighting in the ring. People always wonder why we taught combinations. Well when you get hit and your plan goes to shit, your primal instincts kick in and go to programmed moves. Funny thing was I started boxing at 8 and got in the ring for the first time at 12. At the age of 16 - 18 I got into kickboxing and then did nothing for a couple years. When I got back in the ring, I went on autopilot and did fine until I got grappled. A legal but annoying move in boxing. Instead of letting the ref break us up, knees and elbows slipped into the action. I was penalized, but it was uninentional. I've always if I was attacked while carrying, how much would all that training and muscle memory take over.
Duffy
Apr 16, 12 13:41
Post #16 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [Hubblesmith]
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Quote:
* Shooting a propane tank will make a giant explosion.
You're not doing it right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV09OgDDy6Q
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"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 13:45
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [TheForge]
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TheForge wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
Re: #2. A friend of mine goes to a shooting farm where they practice what might be typical in a gun fight. He also competes in these types of things.
Well, you fight like you train, so the more real-world simulation you can get the better for you if you're in a real gunplay type situation. Adrenalin, confusing tactical pictures, the lack of cover and concealment and so forth all comes into play in these kinds of deals so I can see why #2 would apply. Out in the field we used to secretly laugh at the doctors and nurses running around with their sharp-looking M9s in their nicely polished black leather shoulder holsters because, man, if it ever got down to where we were going to need the help of the nurses with their 9mms to regain the initiative from the enemy putting pressure on their position then we also should think about teaching them all how to throw the damn things at the bad guys because that would probably do more damage. ;-)
I was really into 3-gun shooting until I got addicted to triathlons. You adjust to it accordingly. The first few matches and the adrenaline can be overwhelming. But soon you committ your movements to muscle memory. Like fighting in the ring. People always wonder why we taught combinations. Well when you get hit and your plan goes to shit, your primal instincts kick in and go to programmed moves. Funny thing was I started boxing at 8 and got in the ring for the first time at 12. At the age of 16 - 18 I got into kickboxing and then did nothing for a couple years. When I got back in the ring, I went on autopilot and did fine until I got grappled. A legal but annoying move in boxing. Instead of letting the ref break us up, knees and elbows slipped into the action. I was penalized, but it was uninentional. I've always if I was attacked while carrying, how much would all that training and muscle memory take over.
You'd do better, to tell the truth, than somebody with no training or only with the training they got during the class they took on gun safety and other things in order to get their concealed carry. Training for a tactical situation always helps, no doubt, but how much depends on a lot of factors that nobody can completely prepare for. One of the righties here has as his tagline "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't ask questions" or something like that. To me, that's the smartest thing you can do, or to do what you do ("go on autopilot") or be able to dissect the tactical situation and then act in both proactive and reactive ways. Me? I always look for a rapid egress if at all possible (i.e. "run away").
jriosa
Apr 16, 12 13:52
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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I would generally agree with you about the dropped gun - except I think you should qualify that the gun is at factory settings. I used to shoot ISSF, and you could mod the trigger pull down to 2.25 lbs - about half of a factory setting. I have seen semi-autos dropped and have a single round go off when settings are that light - again safety off, round in chamber and cocked. However that is not your typical setting.
Once when I was doing my first free pistol competition (now there is a tough sport in its own right) I saw a guy lose a round downrange when he set the gun down too hard on the firing table - mind you the trigger pull was under 1/4 lb.
And totally agree with you an the range vs life. I was a good target shot, but god knows you wouldn't want to rely on me in a firefight for all the reasons you mentioned. Maybe after a lot of practice, but not out of the box.
Jim
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TheForge
Apr 16, 12 13:56
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Actually it scares the shit out of me more than anything. Just like when I got hit from behind in my teenage years. After effectively defending myself I suffered amnesia 15 minutes after the event when I got to the safety of my friends home. Don't know whether it was a result of the head trauma or the adrenaline rush. But witnesses said I did a good job of defending myself.
A lot of people don't realized that these tactical assault teams spend the 24 - 36 hours before the assault practicing the assault over and over again in a mockup. First with no guns, then with unloaded guns to ensure all guns are pointed in the right direction and everybody is in place. The elite teams then use live rounds. It is 95% memory, based on intelligence. 5% planning for if something goes wrong. That is why when something is out of place, things go really bad really quick. Innocent people get shot, the assaulters get shot. Or the bad guys get away.
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 13:56
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [jriosa]
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jriosa wrote:
I would generally agree with you about the dropped gun - except I think you should qualify that the gun is at factory settings. I used to shoot ISSF, and you could mod the trigger pull down to 2.25 lbs - about half of a factory setting. I have seen semi-autos dropped and have a single round go off when settings are that light - again safety off, round in chamber and cocked. However that is not your typical setting.
Once when I was doing my first free pistol competition (now there is a tough sport in its own right) I saw a guy lose a round downrange when he set the gun down too hard on the firing table - mind you the trigger pull was under 1/4 lb.
And totally agree with you an the range vs life. I was a good target shot, but god knows you wouldn't want to rely on me in a firefight for all the reasons you mentioned. Maybe after a lot of practice, but not out of the box.
I remember during my stint as the armory officer we used to constantly conduct trigger pull tests on everybody's issue weapons up through the M16 because we were finding a lot them had had some "modifications" of their triggers to reduce trigger pull (never mind that it's relatively high on a military pistol or rifle for a damn good reason). But, yes...you get a match or other competition pistol down to so low a trigger pull and there could be some problems, especially if they're weapons hot with one in the pipe and the thing cocked and un-safed.
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 14:04
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [Rambler]
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Rambler wrote:
#6 Maybe so but the scene where Walter drops the Uzi in the Big Lebowski is still funny as shit.
The other one I like on the old cops shows: Bad guy with a scoped rifle takes careful aim at the hero, misses, hero pulls out out a .38 with a 2" barrel and drops the bad guy.
That's what John McClane did in the third "Die Hard" movie ("With a Vengeance," with Samuel L. Jackson). At the end of the movie, where the bad guys in the helo have McClane's helo down on the ground. McClane borrows the helo pilot's .38 with the 2-inch barrel and jumps out of the helo to draw fire away from Samuel L. and the other folks in his own helo. He then dodges a little "Ma Deuce" (or M60, I can't remember which) fire from the bad guy's helo, before taking his .38 -- a weapon he had never touched prior to borrowing it -- and shoots down a cable tethered to a building from, like, 50 yards, said cable then falling into the rotors of the bad guy's helo and bringing it down. You gotta love that kind of nonsense. ;-)
(This post was
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TheForge
Apr 16, 12 14:12
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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I've seen low speed .22 bounce back of that particle board stuff when somebody used it as a backer for their target at 25 yards. That was some scary stuff. I heard them shoot and then I heard pings behind my head. I once recall hearing that a propane can or even a fire extinguisher can send a bullet in the wrong direction if the angle is just right/wrong. I know if you hit a full fire extinguisher dead on, it will blow the contents out of the entrance hole. I've seen the aftermath.
Rodred
Apr 16, 12 14:12
Post #23 of 70
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [big kahuna]
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Please add "holding a pistol sideways "gangsta style" makes you a killing machine. Even Steven Segal fell for that one.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
big kahuna
Apr 16, 12 14:16
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [Rodred]
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Rodred wrote:
Please add "holding a pistol sideways "gangsta style" makes you a killing machine. Even Steven Segal fell for that one.
Ah, the whole 'gangsta horizontal gun stance.' ;-) Too bad handguns are sighted in in a vertical position, and those idiots will be even less effective at hitting whatever it is they're firing at (hopefully, another gang-banger) than if they did it right and went Weaver or modified Weaver, but thank you-know-who for their stupidity, right?
Hubblesmith
Apr 16, 12 14:17
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Re: 6 Stupid Gun Myths Everyone Believes [TheForge]
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TheForge wrote:
I've seen low speed .22 bounce back of that particle board stuff when somebody used it as a backer for their target at 25 yards. That was some scary stuff. I heard them shoot and then I heard pings behind my head. I once recall hearing that a propane can or even a fire extinguisher can send a bullet in the wrong direction if the angle is just right/wrong. I know if you hit a full fire extinguisher dead on, it will blow the contents out of the entrance hole. I've seen the aftermath.
I've seen .38 special bounce back off of a bowling pin.
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