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Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models

 

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vitalstatistix

Apr 11, 12 6:01

Post #1 of 71 (1260 views)
Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models Quote | Reply

49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

Select excerpts from the letter:


  • “The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
  • “We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
  • “We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”
  • With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/...than-climate-models/


Francois

Apr 11, 12 6:06

Post #2 of 71 (1245 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] (Deleted by Francois) [In reply to]

 


Rodred

Apr 11, 12 6:07

Post #3 of 71 (1243 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Ev-i-de-nce?

What is this word???

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


Eppur si muove

Apr 11, 12 6:10

Post #4 of 71 (1240 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I can already imagine Jack's response to the above: "This isn't rocket science, folks."
-----
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin


Francois

Apr 11, 12 6:19

Post #5 of 71 (1229 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Eppur si muove] (Deleted by Francois) [In reply to]

 


Rodred

Apr 11, 12 6:23

Post #6 of 71 (1224 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Francois wrote:
Data and evidence don't stand a chance against beliefs.

Amen.

And here I thought you were a man made global warming proponent. Who knew.

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


mojozenmaster

Apr 11, 12 6:26

Post #7 of 71 (1218 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

FTMFW!!


**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**


vitalstatistix

Apr 11, 12 6:38

Post #8 of 71 (1195 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Francois wrote:
Anthony Watts lost any right to make claims..

If you read it very closely you'll realise that Anthony Watts makes no claims whatsoever.
The letter was not written by Anthony Watts, but by 49 scientists and astronauts.


Quel

Apr 11, 12 6:42

Post #9 of 71 (1190 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

What are their climate science credentials?


Eppur si muove

Apr 11, 12 6:42

Post #10 of 71 (1190 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anthony Watts lost any right to make claims when he first said that he would gladly accept the work of Berkeley Earth as it was 'really independent work',
and then when the papers came out, he said it was crap work, that these guys didn't know what they were talking about, and on and on...his post on the topic
was truly embarrassing, and incredibly hypocritical. But I let you all go back to your conspiracy theories...


So are you saying that Watts faked the letter (speaking of conspiracy theories)?
-----
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin


Hubblesmith

Apr 11, 12 6:49

Post #11 of 71 (1170 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

vitalstatistix wrote:
Francois wrote:
Anthony Watts lost any right to make claims..


If you read it very closely you'll realise that Anthony Watts makes no claims whatsoever.
The letter was not written by Anthony Watts, but by 49 scientists and astronauts.

Well, yeah...but that's Francois' strawman and he's sticking to it!


LorenzoP

Apr 11, 12 6:52

Post #12 of 71 (1162 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

since no one is motivated to make any changes in consumption - regardless of what the science says or does not say - it's full speed ahead, onwards to the brick wall.


Francois

Apr 11, 12 6:55

Post #13 of 71 (1144 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [LorenzoP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm motivated to stay out of senseless debates. Not sure why I answered in the first place thus my deleting my posts. Enjoy your discussion.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fmcoaching.com

http://www.elpasotricoaching.wordpress.com


Rodred

Apr 11, 12 9:25

Post #14 of 71 (1063 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Francois wrote:
I'm motivated to stay out of senseless debates. Not sure why I answered in the first place thus my deleting my posts. Enjoy your discussion.

Bull pucky. You know you want to join in now get back over here.

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


Quel

Apr 11, 12 9:26

Post #15 of 71 (1061 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm still waiting to hear what their qualifications are.


MJuric

Apr 11, 12 9:29

Post #16 of 71 (1059 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Quel] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm still waiting to hear what their qualifications are.

which includes seven Apollo astronauts


DUDE! They're Astronauts...don't question astronauts.

~Matt


(This post was edited by MJuric on Apr 11, 12 9:30)


Francois

Apr 11, 12 9:45

Post #17 of 71 (1034 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Actually, I'd love to join in. I will as soon as we talk about science. 'I don't agree with this statistical test', 'I think the imprecision of the data cannot be dealt with using
interval arithmetic', 'I think the p-value is borderline and we cannot conclude'...Then we can have a discussion...
-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fmcoaching.com

http://www.elpasotricoaching.wordpress.com


MJuric

Apr 11, 12 10:00

Post #18 of 71 (1027 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Huhhuh...he said p-value....said in my best Beavis and Butthead voice.

~Matt


Eppur si muove

Apr 11, 12 10:04

Post #19 of 71 (1019 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Bull pucky. You know you want to join in now get back over here.

Don't you have it when you delete all your posts in a fit of pique, only to realize that other people have been quoting what you said in their replies, so your comments remain out there for the world to see? ;)
-----
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin


jackmott

Apr 11, 12 10:20

Post #20 of 71 (1009 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [vitalstatistix] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

haha
astronauts!

vitalstatistix wrote:
49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

Select excerpts from the letter:


  • “The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
  • “We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
  • “We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”
  • With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/...than-climate-models/


Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


jackmott

Apr 11, 12 10:22

Post #21 of 71 (1008 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [Francois] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Francois wrote:
Actually, I'd love to join in. I will as soon as we talk about science. 'I don't agree with this statistical test', 'I think the imprecision of the data cannot be dealt with using
interval arithmetic', 'I think the p-value is borderline and we cannot conclude'...Then we can have a discussion...

Exactly, what evidence based claims have these authors brought to the table for us to discuss? Let us discuss them.

Is co2 NOT the main driver in current climate change? why not?


Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


Rodred

Apr 11, 12 10:31

Post #22 of 71 (994 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Where the hell have you been?

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


Rodred

Apr 11, 12 10:32

Post #23 of 71 (992 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I just sighed.

Alert the co2 police.

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


MJuric

Apr 11, 12 10:32

Post #24 of 71 (993 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply


Is co2 NOT the main driver in current climate change? why not?

I had this discussion via E-mail with a friend of mine who is a borderline "Denier" but largely just a "Don't tell me what to do" kind of guy.

I likened the discussion of deniers and "It's not CO2" to Christians and the existence of god. "Something else" is causing these things to happen just like "God made it happen". The "Something else" however can not be identified, located and thus not proven to exist...or not exist.

Maybe CO2 isn't causing these effects, if not then what? All of the "What's" I've seen have been pretty much proven to not be the cause.

~Matt



jackmott

Apr 11, 12 10:36

Post #25 of 71 (985 views)
Re: Engineers, scientists, astronauts ask NASA administration to look at evidence rather than climate models [MJuric] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

MJuric wrote:
Maybe CO2 isn't causing these effects, if not then what? All of the "What's" I've seen have been pretty much proven to not be the cause.

This argument might lead some to think that we just assume it is Co2 because that is the most likely candidate and we can't think of any other reason for the temperature rise.

When in fact we can directly watch it happening from satellite observations.

Aside of course from just doing some basic math given the basic physics of the damn gas.


Boardman Bikes now in the USA
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

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