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Garmin Vector release delayed
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bartturner
Apr 11, 12 5:52
Post #1 of 38
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Garmin Vector release delayed
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I actually am not surprised by this news.
http://www.bikeradar.com/...e-pushed-back-33677/
(This post was
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jaretj
Apr 11, 12 6:24
Post #2 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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That's too bad, I wasn't even thinking of buying them but I feel for the people waiting on them :(
jaretj
JoeO
Apr 11, 12 6:40
Post #3 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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If you look at the bottom of that page, you'll see a link to a related story titled:
"
Delays Push Metrigear Vector Release to mid-2010"
camaleon
Apr 11, 12 6:51
Post #4 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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my cheap,and trusty PT said: I don't care...
----------------
You'll learn when you're over your head you CAN dig deeper despite what your legs are telling you.
echappist
Apr 11, 12 6:59
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [camaleon]
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camaleon wrote:
my cheap,and
trusty PT said: I don't care
...
+1
my quarq was a bit pretentious and said: haha, vapourware
PeaTearGriffin
Apr 11, 12 7:05
Post #6 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [camaleon]
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camaleon wrote:
my
cheap
,and trusty PT said: I don't care...
since when are PT's considered cheap?
camaleon
Apr 11, 12 7:08
Post #7 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [PeaTearGriffin]
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PeaTearGriffin wrote:
camaleon wrote:
my
cheap
,and trusty PT said: I don't care...
since when are PT's considered cheap?
u can buy a PT for $200-300 (wired) or you can buy an ANT+ for $600-800... That is def < 1500 Pedals, < 1800 Quarq, < 2200 Polar, < too much money SRM...
----------------
You'll learn when you're over your head you CAN dig deeper despite what your legs are telling you.
nickwhite
Apr 11, 12 7:19
Post #8 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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This really sucks. I've been waiting on this thing to come out so I can start bike training.
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The Guardian
Apr 11, 12 7:20
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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It looks like my P5 build with Flo wheels and Garmin vector pedals is going to take longer than I thought....
wickert
Apr 11, 12 7:24
Post #10 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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At the same time, I commend and lament what Garmin is doing.
I lament because I was once (somewhere around distant 2010...) very interested in this solution, and very likely still would be, but the growing history of push-backs severely undermined whatever hope or trust I could have had in their release estimates. At least, this time, "it's now been pushed back indefinitely" - this I can believe.
However, I also commend them for having the patience (read: resources) to keep delaying it until (so they say, or I'd hope) the units are really glitch-free, mature enough to hit the market without the need for a recall or firmware update in the first few months of the product's life. As we know, Polar's pedals have been recalled (
sorta
), and
if Tom A. was responsible for Power2Max's quality control
, then quite likely their sensors wouldn't have reached the market yet :)
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Azr43l
Apr 11, 12 8:02
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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Garmin Vector - the Duke Nukem Forever of cycling.
FatandSlow
Apr 11, 12 8:17
Post #12 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [The Guardian]
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Ranks right up there with Zero Gravity cranks...
Very disappointing.
bartturner
Apr 11, 12 8:30
Post #13 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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Considering the delays it also makes you have to consider how reliable this will be when it is finally released. These things tend to go hand in hand.
Rappstar
Apr 11, 12 9:33
Post #14 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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bartturner wrote:
Considering the delays it also makes you have to consider how reliable this will be when it is finally released. These things tend to go hand in hand.
I'd agree. The problems with putting a powermeter in the pedal are not insignificant.
The pedals are part of the drivetrain, but they are subject to all kinds of non-useful load. You simply don't have that problem with a crank-based or hub-based system. As an example, if you are standing on the pedals - but not pedaling - there is significant load (but no useful work). And you have to parse that out. That's simply a non-issue with the crank. And the whole left/right thing is not easy.
To me, it just seems a like of work for pretty minimal practical gains in the field. Especially since, contrary to what some might have you believe, how you actually apply force to the pedals doesn't seem to matter much in terms of pedaling efficiency. This based on tests in the lab with pedal-based powermeters (that are demonstrably non-portable)...
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stevej
Apr 11, 12 10:29
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [Rappstar]
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Rappstar wrote:
bartturner wrote:
Considering the delays it also makes you have to consider how reliable this will be when it is finally released. These things tend to go hand in hand.
I'd agree. The problems with putting a powermeter in the pedal are not insignificant.
The pedals are part of the drivetrain, but they are subject to all kinds of non-useful load. You simply don't have that problem with a crank-based or hub-based system. As an example, if you are standing on the pedals - but not pedaling - there is significant load (but no useful work). And you have to parse that out. That's simply a non-issue with the crank. And the whole left/right thing is not easy.
To me, it just seems a like of work for pretty minimal practical gains in the field. Especially since, contrary to what some might have you believe, how you actually apply force to the pedals doesn't seem to matter much in terms of pedaling efficiency. This based on tests in the lab with pedal-based powermeters (that are demonstrably non-portable)...
Am I missing something? What does it matter if the pedals are receiving a non-useful load. Power = torque * angular velocity. If you aren't pedaling, rpm (angular velocity) = 0, therefore power = 0. You shouldn't have to parse anything out.
(This post was
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climber7
Apr 11, 12 10:51
Post #16 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [stevej]
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stevej wrote:
Am I missing something? What does it matter if the pedals are receiving a non-useful load. Power = torque * angular velocity. If you aren't pedaling, rpm (angular velocity) = 0, therefore power = 0. You shouldn't have to parse anything out.
unless they've installed some kind of sensor in the spindle - which seems like it would be a huge pain in the butt when you have to remove/reinstall the pedals - pedals have no idea if they're turning; all they can measure is the force currently being applied. a crank or hub can tell when it's rotating and when it's not. that's my best guess, but i could be wrong.
also, this was already pretty ridiculous. i don't blame garmin for wanting to iron out the kinks before they send the product to market, but it seems like they made some serious miscalculations in the development process.
i notice that there's still no firmware update for NP/IF on the edge 500, either, which dcrainmaker said was supposed to happen by march at the absolute latest...
AndyF
Apr 11, 12 11:01
Post #17 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [nickwhite]
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nickwhite wrote:
This really sucks. I've been waiting on this thing to come out so I can start bike training.
Fixed that for you. ;-)
AndyF
http://alphamantis.com
nickwhite
Apr 11, 12 11:25
Post #18 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [AndyF]
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AndyF wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
This really sucks. I've been waiting on this thing to come out so I can start bike training.
Fixed that for you. ;-)
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Tom A.
Apr 11, 12 11:43
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [climber7]
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climber7 wrote:
unless they've installed some kind of sensor in the spindle - which seems like it would be a huge pain in the butt when you have to remove/reinstall the pedals - pedals have no idea if they're turning; all they can measure is the force currently being applied. a crank or hub can tell when it's rotating and when it's not. that's my best guess, but i could be wrong.
"could be wrong"? Nah...definitely wrong. I guess you missed it that there's an orthogonal set of accelerometers in there. There should be no problems detecting pedal rotation.
edit: Minor correction, I meant
crank
rotation (since the spindles are fixed to the crank)
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(This post was
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Grungir
Apr 11, 12 11:45
Post #20 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [climber7]
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climber7 wrote:
stevej wrote:
Am I missing something? What does it matter if the pedals are receiving a non-useful load. Power = torque * angular velocity. If you aren't pedaling, rpm (angular velocity) = 0, therefore power = 0. You shouldn't have to parse anything out.
unless they've installed some kind of sensor in the spindle - which seems like it would be a huge pain in the butt when you have to remove/reinstall the pedals - pedals have no idea if they're turning; all they can measure is the force currently being applied. a crank or hub can tell when it's rotating and when it's not. that's my best guess, but i could be wrong.
also, this was already pretty ridiculous. i don't blame garmin for wanting to iron out the kinks before they send the product to market, but it seems like they made some serious miscalculations in the development process.
i notice that there's still no firmware update for NP/IF on the edge 500, either, which dcrainmaker said was supposed to happen by march at the absolute latest...
I believe they have accelerometers in them (would help measure pedal rotation about the crank axis not the spindle)
coopdog
Apr 11, 12 11:48
Post #21 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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This thread should suffer the same fate as the FLO threads IMO. Vaporware...
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stevej
Apr 11, 12 12:00
Post #22 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [Grungir]
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I figured there were accelerometers in the spindle. It doesn't matter how the pedals get angular velocity(accelerometers, magnet, etc), it will still equal zero when you aren't pedaling.
climber7
Apr 11, 12 12:42
Post #23 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [Tom A.]
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Tom A. wrote:
climber7 wrote:
unless they've installed some kind of sensor in the spindle - which seems like it would be a huge pain in the butt when you have to remove/reinstall the pedals - pedals have no idea if they're turning; all they can measure is the force currently being applied. a crank or hub can tell when it's rotating and when it's not. that's my best guess, but i could be wrong.
"could be wrong"? Nah...definitely wrong. I guess you missed it that there's an orthogonal set of accelerometers in there. There should be no problems detecting pedal rotation.
edit: Minor correction, I meant
crank
rotation (since the spindles are fixed to the crank)
well, ok then. happens to the best of us...
i suppose that's what i get for not doing any research.
earthling
Apr 11, 12 14:39
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [bartturner]
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bartturner wrote:
I actually am not surprised by this news.http://www.bikeradar.com/...e-pushed-back-33677/[/quote[/url]]
Not read the bike radar piece, but I was told the problem was software not hardware. They were struggling to get rid of the road noise developed in the system which the software picks up but cannot deal with. Heard that at a Hunter Allen conference on training with power last month.
Born to Tri - forced to work..........
bartturner
Apr 11, 12 15:00
Post #25 of 38
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Re: Garmin Vector release delayed [coopdog]
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I totally do NOT agree. Wheels are a lot different than building power meter pedals. A product that has never existed before. Totally differnet, IMHO
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