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How much can I train without breaking?

radelj44

Apr 5, 12 9:52

Post #1 of 19 (1820 views)

How much can I train without breaking?	Quote \| Reply

What a question, right?

Okay but seriously. I work a desk job (8:30am - 6pm ish) 5 days a week and, trust me, there's little to no stress (lucky me!). I can train every second from 6:15pm to 7:30am. I'm young. I train 15-16 hours per week right now and I'm tired every so often but never enough to hurt a workout. I'm training for IM-Wisconsin in September. I only have a couple of halfs before than.

In your opinion, how many hours can I put in a week where it is going to give results? Most coaches are saying not to put in more than 15 hours now and 20 maxed out this summer. I think I can max out way higher than that.

OneGoodLeg

Apr 5, 12 10:04

Post #2 of 19 (1783 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Only one way to really find out... Many of us butt up against some other external limiter like family/work schedules, etc, before we physically top out (or maybe we get injured from trying to squeeze too much intensity within those time constraints without building up to it), but if you don't have a wife/GF/family or some other outside demands competing for that time, then go for it.

I think the major caveats are not ramping up too much too soon, eating & sleeping well enough (remember, it's the recovery part where the improvement actually takes effect), and avoiding burning out on the mental side even if your body holds up fine.

(This post was edited by OneGoodLeg on Apr 5, 12 10:07)

phil combs

Apr 5, 12 10:19

Post #3 of 19 (1728 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [OneGoodLeg] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The funny thing to me is that this is the best question up on the forum right now but no one is posting because they are busy worrying about whether Lance ate a Pop-Tart in 2004.

I am sure that you could train more than 15 hours if you want to. I ride with guys that train 20+ with families and often see posts here from long course athletes that are way above 20. (I'm a middle-aged, short course guy, with a family and a stressful job, so I don't even consider these kinds of questions!)

The most important questions IMO are: (a) will you enjoy it; (b) are you willing to make intensity/volume trade-offs to permit it? If the answer to both those is yes, I'm sure you can do it as long as you are sensible about it (reasonable ramp-up, less intensity, good sleep, good nutrition, etc.).

I'm sure that the long course specialists can and will help you a lot on this issue. If you don't get many responses, just start PM'ing them, many of them will go out of their way to help you get where you want to be. Good luck!

jrd5497

Apr 5, 12 10:23

Post #4 of 19 (1712 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Your body will definately let you know when it is tired. I work a desk job as well. I swim tuesday and thursday mornings. Then either ride or run every day during the week. I get my long ride/runs in on the weekend. Just keep it fun so you will stay motivated.

radelj44

Apr 5, 12 10:26

Post #5 of 19 (1697 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [phil combs] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

phil combs wrote:

The funny thing to me is that this is the best question up on the forum right now but no one is posting because they are busy worrying about whether Lance ate a Pop-Tart in 2004.

Hilarious!!

jaretj

Apr 5, 12 10:59

Post #6 of 19 (1629 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Look at the amount of time you have available for training, remember that you have work, meals, family time, relaxing time, house project time and other misc time.

Look at your 8 highest consecutive training weeks from a prior time. Start by matching that average time for 4 or so weeks then add ~1-2 hours for a few weeks and see how you are doing...Adjust as necessary.

For me it's about 17 hours max, mostly around 14-15 but I'm 45 this year.

jaretj

STP

Apr 5, 12 11:30

Post #7 of 19 (1573 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The most I ever did was 4 or 5 months at a stretch of 18-22 hours a week back when I was a swimmer. We had pretty much unlimited time (this was before any NCAA practice limits) but that was about as much one could do at any intensity without getting into a huge downward spiral of major fatigue and diminishing returns. Its not the hours, it what you do with the hours that matters most. If you can do 20 and keep your job, I would suggest going harder rather than trying to just hit a crazy hours/week total.

RustyJones

Apr 5, 12 12:40

Post #8 of 19 (1490 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [jaretj] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Great question. I was thinking the same thing but reading the posts for entertainment value. Okay so I don't have a very stressful job. I would go so far as saying under-employed but my current gig does allow me time to train.
I'm 48 and have run 40 full and a handfull of ultra marathons and now signed up for B2B full as I cannot afford the 700 dollar entry fees of other events. Besides the last 10-12 years I've enjoyed the smaller marathons. Cheaper, easier logistically, and more intimate as I'm a chatterbox for 26.2 (you notice the same folks). I guess I should be running faster but I got all that sub 3.30 (fast for me) out of my system while in my late 20's and 30's. If I feel good I run faster, if not then I'm gonna enjoy the view and company.
I used to be able to and to my suprise can still basically call-in a marathon. "I did a long run 6 months ago, I'm good." With that said I'm starting to take this IM training seriously. Hired a swim coach as I thought that being a retired Marine who was a combat water survival instructor I could swim pretty good. Yeah = I sucked!!! So this woman is kicking my ass once a week for an hour in one of those fancy Endless Pools. I sold my road bike to get a wetsuit. Sold a drumset to get a Blue Triad SP. Need to sell something else to get a computer and pedals (left those on the bike I sold). SPD's are working for now.
Current Schedule: (I will add more running after the MS150 in a few weeks)
-5:00 - 7:30 on Tues and Thursday mornings. (track workout Tuesday followed by Swim, Thursday's are intervals on the bike, either outside or Sufferfest fun and a short run)
-1.5 hours for lunch most days. (lately it's been swimming and or spinning on the trainer)
-2-4 hours early Saturday/Sunday mornings. (I have a wife and a 3yr old so it's gotta get done early in the morning. Road rides start a 5:30AM.)

I have the time however I haven't put all the pieces together as I am noticing that it is taking me longer to recover at 48 than it did just a few years ago. I am also a little more sore following a hard bike workout and track workout which has been tough for the longer weekend training days.
Realistically on a week where I don't have a gig (I play drums) I can commit to about 16 hours. I can probably squeeze in another 2 hours max if need be but like most of us I need a training/life balance. 14 hour weeks is pretty sustaninable. 16 hours requires a little negotiating. 18 requires going to bed by 8:30 Tuesday and Thursday nights so I can train and be done by 6am (wife works out 6-7 MWF).

Just thinking about what do and what intensity level makes me dizzy as I like the laid back approach to life so if I can get some more paying music gigs I may hire a coach starting next month. Coaching fees are kind of $$$$$ but the woman coaching my swim is in her 1st trimester and will probably need the extra cash for diapers and coffee. We were coffee addicts after our son was born.

I haven't been able to break myself yet with 20 years of running marathons and don't want to start. I have noticed that since I've stopped lifting weights except pool side pushups/dips my shoulders have been pain free. 1st time in years. That's important when you are playing grab-ass with a 3 year old.

I know - I'm rambling...not so busy at work and I've been contemplating how much I need/want/can realistically train. Right now I'm having a blast, except the track workouts. Those fast woman are killing me. For me it is all about the f'word. Fun!

Anyone want to buy a drum set? I've got a cocktail set and some snares to sell. I need speedplay pedals/shoes and a computer - bike upgrades would be great too. Poopy! Maybe I should just sell my Jeep. My commute is only 3 miles and the wife has a fancy VW Tiguan. A gigging drummer without a car-that would be awesome! Dude can I borrow your car - I got a gig tonight.
Okay-So anyone want to buy my "woody?" 1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer with wood grain trim. Klassic!!!

apexendurance

Apr 5, 12 13:36

Post #9 of 19 (1393 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Check out this post on training peaks blog:
http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/3/29/ask-the-experts-building-chronic-training-load.html

ghostrider1tm

Apr 5, 12 15:50

Post #10 of 19 (1277 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

there's far more to consider than just hours and numbers....most coaches just give you that stuff cause it's easy, you need to consider massage of muscles, recovery type foods, hydration, sleep patterns, and stretching just name a few....if you can do all these daily the hours of training will be more effective, if you coach can't help you with these get a better coach

timeforacompact

Apr 5, 12 17:20

Post #11 of 19 (1231 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

you need to factor in intensity with duration. you could do a lot more at a light intensity, maybe not so much more if doing more intense workouts.
check out TSS. http://support.trainingpeaks.com/...g-stress-scores.aspx

______________________________________
"Competetive sport begins where healthy sport ends"

Ultra-tri-guy

Apr 5, 12 20:34

Post #12 of 19 (1152 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

radelj44 wrote:

---

Nobody can tell how much you can bear though some will try...I know people who literally eat,sleep and breathe training with work being the necessary evil required to pay for it all..Your weekly training hours are what they do on the weekend..Trial and error is the way to go....That and good medical insurance..;-)

----

(This post was edited by Ultra-tri-guy on Apr 5, 12 20:39)

radelj44

Apr 6, 12 9:15

Post #13 of 19 (977 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [timeforacompact] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I get that. Right now I'm still in base training and will be for another 5 or 6 weeks. My thought is if I keep ramping up my base training; how far can I go before I start including intensity?

timeforacompact

Apr 6, 12 17:10

Post #14 of 19 (884 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

radelj44 wrote:

I get that. Right now I'm still in base training and will be for another 5 or 6 weeks. My thought is if I keep ramping up my base training; how far can I go before I start including intensity?

i think you should have some intensity work in the base phase. just not too much. then go into it deeper as you peak. it's hard to know how much you can take, it's usually more than you think, until you get there.
there are some good books on periodization, http://www.amazon.com/...-Bompa/dp/0880118512 , but it's still hard to figure it out. there is no formula that fits everyone. i think you'll find most successful athletes have screwed it up a few times before they got it right.

______________________________________
"Competetive sport begins where healthy sport ends"

danfunk

Apr 6, 12 17:21

Post #15 of 19 (869 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Kind of piggybacking on what someone else said... add intensity, more hours, longer distances... as long as its fun.

I give you a piece of advice that a friend-of-the-family PGA teaching pro once gave me when I was a teenager and sulking my way through a round of golf with him. After one miserable shot and subsequent temper tantrum, he looked at me and said:

"You're not good enough to get mad at yourself."

And he was absolutely right. At that moment, I've just tried to play golf the best I can...know that there are people far, far better and far far worse, people who play far far more and far far less... and I just play. And I have a great time.

So...

Don't mean to be critical of you. Just trying to say... don't worry about the little details so much (I know, kind of antithetical to ST)... it looks like you have a long way to go to learn your limits. Don't train 40 hours a week.. but bumping it up a bit, cranking out some intensity, etc... will not hurt you.

And like someone else said... you're body will tell you. So make sure you listen to it.

Have fun and kick ass.

Bad Fish

Apr 6, 12 17:40

Post #16 of 19 (847 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

IMO this forum is way to dependent on more cowbell. To get "results" you might be better with 10 or 12 hours a week. I guess some people respond to consistent big volume, but other people respond better to less volume. 16 hours every weekis a lot of work. Fatigue is a funny thing. You can dig yourself a fatigue hole and not even know it because your body can do the work you are asking it to do and you might even be improving, but you are putting yourself in a hole non the less. You might not be tired enough to hurt your workouts, but you could be tired enough to hurt you racing.

bluepoint

Apr 6, 12 17:49

Post #17 of 19 (836 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think you can physically put in more hours. It might end up coming down to how do you get it all in around what I'm assuming to be a 9-5 job and not get fried. Even with a job that isn't stressful it's still got to take some toll.

If you were to average 4 hours a day, 6 days a week that's 24 hours of training. The bulk of that would not be intense...just getting in the miles particularly on the bike.

Then you add in a 35-40 hours a week of work and that brings you to a total of almost 60 hours. Not a ton of extra time for chores, fun, etc. Also, at that level of training I personally would spend some time on things like self massage, range of motion/stretching.

I guess give it a go and if you start to get worn down (physically or mentally) then it's time for a recovery week.

Let us know how it goes.

Big

Apr 6, 12 19:18

Post #18 of 19 (762 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just a thought...but if you are young look at the total training hours you could do over the next 3 years...I would rather see an athlete keep the training hours on the lower side (relative of course)...stay around 12-15 hours/week and see if you can do that for 48 to 50 weeks out of the year the next 3 years and see what happens....

tribaleno

Apr 6, 12 19:57

Post #19 of 19 (731 views)

Re: How much can I train without breaking? [radelj44] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Nice thread. Ive hadperiods in my tri life where i trained 18-24/ wk and many seasons where i rarely topped 10 but diet, rest, stretching, and intensity of key workouts were on point. On point, well rested, nimble me kicks super impressive training log me (s) ass on race day. Having said that, im a half guy, multiple sub 4:40's at that distance but no 140.6 to brag abt, several finishes...none to Q