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Race Wheels

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jonnydubaya

Mar 29, 12 12:04

Post #1 of 27 (2815 views)

Race Wheels	Quote \| Reply

Hello,

I am going to get a set of race wheels for a tri bike, and I was interested in opinions on the models I am looking at.

Sram S80 (or 60/80 combo) about $1200 on ebay
Zipp Firecrest 808 about $2200 on ebay
Hed Jet 6/9 MSRP around $2000.

My thought is that the Zipps are the best of those listed, they have a great reputation, seem to me to be the standard in aero wheels, but they are also $$$
Sram is built by Zipp, so they are good wheels, but heavier and maybe less "advanced" than the firecrest tech, but they are also cheapest.
Hed...also great wheels...expensive just like the Zipps, similar reputation.

Sram has an ALU braking track, which is nice for control...so I see that as a plus
The Sram wheels are heavier

I am interested in clinchers because I dont want to deal with tubular gluing or changing a tubular flat during a half/full ironman.

I am 6'1" 160-65lb. Because of that, I generally seek out hilly courses because I get more of an advantage in the power :: weight area.

I realize that theoretically the Sram wheels will be slower than the Zipp wheels (or HED)...because they are heavier (and maybe slightly less aero) but the Sram wheels are a spectacular value for the money. So I guess what I want to know is, what would the time savings be for the extra grand I would spend on the Zipp. If its 1 minute over the 56mile bike ride (2000ft climbing), its not worth it...if its 10 minutes, it starts to matter (at least in my opinion).

I would appreciate thoughts/feedback.

hankscorpio

Mar 29, 12 12:07

Post #2 of 27 (2799 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I doubt the 808s are that much faster than HEDs, but I would personally gravitate toward them because of the supposed easier handling in crosswinds and the ease of installing tubes/tires.

3Dealz

Mar 29, 12 12:16

Post #3 of 27 (2767 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jonnydubaya wrote:

I am 6'1" 160-65lb. Because of that, I generally seek out hilly courses because I get more of an advantage in the power :: weight area.

.

I think you answered your own question. I would go with the lighter option.

sak35

Mar 29, 12 12:26

Post #4 of 27 (2734 views)

Re: Race Wheels [3Dealz] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

FLO FLO FLO!

jackmott

Mar 29, 12 12:26

Post #5 of 27 (2733 views)

Re: Race Wheels [3Dealz] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

3Dealz wrote:

I think you answered your own question. I would go with the lighter option.

Sure, if you have the money the lightest disc wheel and lightest 808 firecrest you can find.

=)

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Cervelo Apple

Mar 29, 12 12:32

Post #6 of 27 (2709 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jonnydubaya wrote:

I was/am in same situation as you. You certainly did all the HW behind the choices.

I fail to see how the difference between SRAM and Zipp would equal 10 minutes on a 56 mile bike. I might be assuming incorrectly, but if the course is not point to point, wouldn't the heavier SRAM wheels actually be better for the downhill portions?

duffman

Mar 29, 12 12:56

Post #7 of 27 (2651 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think the difference between all those wheelsets would be hard to even measure, less than a minute for 56 miles almost certainly. Maybe a couple of minutes vs. $300 stock wheels. You might try the classifieds if money is an issue. I bought a pair on there a year ago for $800 and have been pretty happy.
__________________________

Oh yeah!

jonnydubaya

Mar 29, 12 13:17

Post #8 of 27 (2596 views)

Re: Race Wheels [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cervelo Apple wrote:

Well it would usually be a loop or out/back. I think downhill, the Zipp wheels would still do better if you believe they are more aero. So, I think the zipps would theoretically out perform the SRAM wheels both uphill and downhill. Zipp will also tell you that they are better in X-Winds. But my question is how much of an advantage, and is that advantage worth $1k?

If its 10 minutes of savings over a 56mile ride, than its worth it, if its only 1 minute, I'll keep my $1k. Now, if I were a pro, and my livelihood depended on my finish position, I'd go with the lighter wheels (and I probably wouldn't pay for them anyways)...but I'm not a pro....So that $1k = 4 more 70.3 race fees.

mrtrik

Mar 29, 12 13:19

Post #9 of 27 (2580 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

FWIW... I got a NIB FC808's for $1850 on ST Classifieds so better deals exist than $2200....

I do have a Hed Jet 9C2 (front) for sale if interested... about 500 miles on it.

--
WeBike.us | 2012 IMAZ Race Report

Cervelo Apple

Mar 29, 12 13:28

Post #10 of 27 (2552 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I assume the difference between box wheels and the fastest zipps are 4-5 minutes for a 56 mile course. This is a complete guess but I got to think the Zipps won't be more than 1-1.5 minutes faster than the SRAMs.

It sounds like you have your mind made up on not spending top $$ for marginal time and I wouldn't say you are making a horrible decision.

(everyone then talks about latex and good race tires as counting down on time - so maybe you can buy those with left over money?)

obohlman

Mar 29, 12 14:18

Post #11 of 27 (2504 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I was considering some of the same options you are about a month ago. I ended up going w a set of dimpled Zipp 404's that I can use for everyday training rides. I'll be getting a disc cover from Wheelbuilders for races, I think they are about $90! I found a gently used set of 2008 Tubular 404's on craigslist for under $1k including brand new tires. They are great....and the resale on Zipps is very strong if you ever want to sell them.

Lots of rolling hills where I train, and usually some winds, the 404's have been manageable in everything I've seen thus far, including 20mph sustained and gusts to about 30...not fun but I managed to stay upright!

Use the money you save to get an aero helmet if you don't have one and maybe something nice for your spouse! (I need to remember that one!)

OneGoodLeg

Mar 29, 12 14:32

Post #12 of 27 (2472 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jonnydubaya wrote:

Cervelo Apple wrote:

Well it would usually be a loop or out/back. I think downhill, the Zipp wheels would still do better if you believe they are more aero. So, I think the zipps would theoretically out perform the SRAM wheels both uphill and downhill. Zipp will also tell you that they are better in X-Winds. But my question is how much of an advantage, and is that advantage worth $1k?

If its 10 minutes of savings over a 56mile ride, than its worth it, if its only 1 minute, I'll keep my $1k. Now, if I were a pro, and my livelihood depended on my finish position, I'd go with the lighter wheels (and I probably wouldn't pay for them anyways)...but I'm not a pro....So that $1k = 4 more 70.3 race fees.

Nobody else can tell you what $1000 (or whatever amount) is "worth" to you. Once upon a time (no kids, no mortgage, university job), I had more spare time than money (of course I *thought* I was busy then, just broke). Since then, a couple different years I've spent $100-150 to pay a guy to rake all my leaves in the fall when I decided it wasn't worth my time, or pay $200 to a pizza joint to host my kids birthday party instead of having it at my house so I can just drive away when it's over instead of having to clean up. That would have been a preposterous thought to me 20 years ago.

As for the wheels, this question comes up here almost daily; certainly at least a couple times a week for years and years, and everyone seems to be looking for a concrete number when no such answer exists. Too many variables... nobody publishes a test that controls for all manner of tires, terrain, environmental conditions, etc. And that's just drag, which is relatively objective (how's that for an oxymoron?) even if it's cluttered with too many confounding variables, compared to other criteria. I've had both Heds and Zipps, and I didn't like the Heds as much because I decided the Jet's fairing construction (shallower structural rim, longer spokes) felt more 'mushy' when cornering compared to the Zipps, which felt stiffer and sharper handling, but I can't honestly tell you how much of that was all in my head just knowing the difference in their construction design. That actually seemed to be a more palpable difference to me than trying to tease out how much of a time difference from week to week on our local TT was due to the wheels' drag numbers.

If you like, I'll give an honest guess that the range of difference for those wheels (each with good tires/tubes and everything else equal) is on the order of a minute for a HIM split, maybe 2. The difference between that ballpark and an ordinary set of 32h box-section wheels with stock tires & tubes might be more like 5-7 minutes. Another way of looking at it, again very sloppy numbers depending on your base speed, but you might get close to ~1mph from a nice set of wheels/tires compared to stock training wheels, but the difference among the higher-end HEDs/Zipps/SRAMs, etc will be much less, maybe in the tenths.

For ballpark math, if you're doing around 20mph for a HIM, that's ~3min/mile for a little under 3 hours... So an easy way to look at it is that a 0.5mph gain would put you 1 mile further down the road in 2 hours, thus that'd be worth somewhere around 2-1/2 to 3 minutes total for 56miles. Again, the diff between good race wheels & tires and a run-of-the-mill training set-up is probably a little more than that unless you train on nice wheels or race on sluggy tires, but the diff between high-end Brand X and high-end Brand Y is smaller for sure. No way it's anywhere near 10 minutes.

And back to the first point, the time savings calculation and how easily you can afford $XYZ are really separate questions even though it's easy to commingle them in a purchasing choice.

wes mantooth

Mar 29, 12 14:37

Post #13 of 27 (2458 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jonnydubaya wrote:

Hello,

I am going to get a set of race wheels for a tri bike, and I was interested in opinions on the models I am looking at.

Sram S80 (or 60/80 combo) about $1200 on ebay
Zipp Firecrest 808 about $2200 on ebay
Hed Jet 6/9 MSRP around $2000.

My thought is that the Zipps are the best of those listed, they have a great reputation, seem to me to be the standard in aero wheels, but they are also $$$
Sram is built by Zipp, so they are good wheels, but heavier and maybe less "advanced" than the firecrest tech, but they are also cheapest.
Hed...also great wheels...expensive just like the Zipps, similar reputation.

Sram has an ALU braking track, which is nice for control...so I see that as a plus
The Sram wheels are heavier

I am interested in clinchers because I dont want to deal with tubular gluing or changing a tubular flat during a half/full ironman.

I am 6'1" 160-65lb. Because of that, I generally seek out hilly courses because I get more of an advantage in the power :: weight area.

I realize that theoretically the Sram wheels will be slower than the Zipp wheels (or HED)...because they are heavier (and maybe slightly less aero) but the Sram wheels are a spectacular value for the money. So I guess what I want to know is, what would the time savings be for the extra grand I would spend on the Zipp. If its 1 minute over the 56mile bike ride (2000ft climbing), its not worth it...if its 10 minutes, it starts to matter (at least in my opinion).

I would appreciate thoughts/feedback.

That's high for the HED Jet's. I just got hte 6/9 combo from trizone.com for about $1,500 if you sign up to be a member. And you get a portion of your purchase cost back in store credit.

spadddd

Mar 29, 12 14:39

Post #14 of 27 (2455 views)

Re: Race Wheels [OneGoodLeg] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

sram s80 front, rear disc cover, aero helmet, and a set of fast race tires is the most aero bang you can get for your buck.

GonnaHurt

Mar 29, 12 14:44

Post #15 of 27 (2441 views)

Re: Race Wheels [spadddd] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

spadddd wrote:

sram s80 front, rear disc cover, aero helmet, and a set of fast race tires is the most aero bang you can get for your buck.

This is what I did (almost). Just went S80 front/read, aero helmet and GP4000's (on clinchers).
I'm happy with how things turned out.

(This post was edited by GonnaHurt on Mar 29, 12 14:45)

Tri or Die

Mar 29, 12 15:36

Post #16 of 27 (2373 views)

Re: Race Wheels [spadddd] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

spadddd wrote:

sram s80 front, rear disc cover, aero helmet, and a set of fast race tires is the most aero bang you can get for your buck.

but in order:

1. professional fit.

2. proper race clothing.

3. aero helmet.

4. disc cover or disc.

5. 80'ish front or H3 front.

6. tires (bead matches wheel)

7. flat black frame with gloss black logos

Canadian

Mar 29, 12 15:50

Post #17 of 27 (2343 views)

Re: Race Wheels [sak35] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

sak35 wrote:

FLO FLO FLO!

Thanks for the mention. We appreciate that.

Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | Twitter: http://bit.ly/bOQ08x | Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

Oz_in_Canada

Mar 29, 12 16:45

Post #18 of 27 (2289 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have a set of the Firecrest and haven't had an issue with them in any cross-winds to date.

jonnydubaya

Mar 29, 12 17:43

Post #19 of 27 (2248 views)

Re: Race Wheels [Canadian] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Canadian wrote:

sak35 wrote:

FLO FLO FLO!

Thanks for the mention. We appreciate that.

Wow, those look impressive. Same weight as SRAM wheels but cheaper. Too bad you guys are sold out until July??

dwesley

Apr 1, 12 21:10

Post #20 of 27 (2010 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I don't know if you saw this, but Competitive Cyclist is having a great sale on 2011 Jet 9s right now. Might change which way you go.

jackmott

Apr 1, 12 21:11

Post #21 of 27 (2009 views)

Re: Race Wheels [jonnydubaya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

same weight!!!

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Aralo

Apr 2, 12 6:00

Post #22 of 27 (1906 views)

Re: Race Wheels [dwesley] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dwesley wrote:

I don't know if you saw this, but Competitive Cyclist is having a great sale on 2011 Jet 9s right now. Might change which way you go.

They've this deal for 2 weeks. They also had the 2012 Jet 6 for $900 and the 2012 Jet 3 for $900. But they were sold out pretty quickly

(This post was edited by Aralo on Apr 2, 12 6:01)

jonnydubaya

Apr 2, 12 9:38

Post #23 of 27 (1803 views)

Re: Race Wheels [dwesley] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dwesley wrote:

I don't know if you saw this, but Competitive Cyclist is having a great sale on 2011 Jet 9s right now. Might change which way you go.

Was not aware, thanks for the info. Made my decision really easy!

jkahan

Apr 2, 12 9:50

Post #24 of 27 (1781 views)

Re: Race Wheels [Tri or Die] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

x2. correct order.
******************************************
Have Fun ** Tri Hard ** Be Kind
******************************************

CP78

Apr 2, 12 13:50

Post #25 of 27 (1641 views)

Re: Race Wheels [GonnaHurt] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

First post on slowtwitch, I went with the S80s too, front and rear, I got these because they are more durable from what I read because of the alloy rim, also aluminum braking surface makes them easy to switch out from my training wheels. I tend to ride these all the time though unless its really windy,which it can be by the beach here.

I was thinking for wind or hill courses like Wildflower, the SRAM s27 al comp (found for $200) on the front, and leave the S80 in the rear? Asking the experts on ST would that make sense??? I wanted the wheels to match somewhat thats why I was thinking use the same brand :-) (S30 spint is also an option at $275)
I would do the S40 front but Ive heard theirs issues with the spoke reliability plus its heavier and Id have to fork out $500.

My friend got the grey ones, called stealth, match his bike better

(This post was edited by CP78 on Apr 2, 12 14:18)

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