Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go?

GreekPT

Dec 14, 11 14:26

Post #1 of 14 (3196 views)

Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go?	Quote \| Reply

I need a rear disc for IM Canada - does anyone have info/knowledge/feedback on the William Cycling disc? 1,100grams, tubular and $900 with a skewer and pads. I'll be going with tubulars vs. clinchers. I already have a pair of newer 404's.

Why or why not please?

http://www.williamscycling.com/williams_disc_road.html

FatandSlow

Dec 15, 11 7:43

Post #2 of 14 (3059 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [GreekPT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I suspect that a wheel cover on your current 404s will be much less expensive, maybe 150 grams heavier, and since it mimics the sub9 shape, more aerodynamic. But I am speculating...

jackmott

Dec 15, 11 7:47

Post #3 of 14 (3047 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [GreekPT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

couple of approaches here

put a cover on your 404s, it will be a touch heavier but not a big deal, and it saves you $900, it will also have comfort/handling properties of your 404s that you are used to, which is nice.

otherwise it comes down to splitting hairs between a few grams of weight and which shape will be faster on your particular frame, and which ones might handle a little better than the other.

Honestly I can't think of a reason not to just use a cover on the 404s. The hed stinger disc would save you some weight I guess, and still handle like a spoked wheel since that is what it is (stinger9 with a carbon cover basically)

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Fastyellow

Dec 15, 11 8:28

Post #4 of 14 (2995 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [GreekPT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cover on the 404....done.....

Unless you want the "cool" factor of running a disc. From a performance and value standpoint, cover the 404.

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Sam Apoc

Dec 15, 11 20:15

Post #5 of 14 (2827 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [GreekPT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Do the disc. Wheel covers are ghetto and suck.

SeasonsChange

Dec 15, 11 20:32

Post #6 of 14 (2816 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [Chuck Finley] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Chuck Finley wrote:

Do the disc. Wheel covers are ghetto and suck.

/FAIL

Grant.Reuter

Dec 15, 11 20:35

Post #7 of 14 (2814 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [SeasonsChange] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

SeasonsChange wrote:

Chuck Finley wrote:

Do the disc. Wheel covers are ghetto and suck.

/FAIL

I've determined one thing, anytime chuck answers a question about something. Aero, take the opposite and you'll be pretty close to the right direction.
-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

PrivateAddress

Mar 22, 12 16:21

Post #8 of 14 (2345 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [FatandSlow] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It's all good and well to suggest a cover, BUT .... I suspect that most people recommending it have not tried it.... I purchased a Wheelbuilder "aerojacket" for a pair of 2012 Zipp Firecrest tubulars. First cover they sent didn't fit at all -- lots of warpage, lumps all over the place. They then sent a second cover, which was just a bit better in terms of warpage (but not by much, still the case that pushing one location caused a lump to pop up elsewhere) but the center hole on the non-drive side was cut so large that the spokes were showing. On top of that, the cover was sticking out at least a centimeter laterally relative to the hub flange so there was a gaping hole for air to enter and get trapped in the cover. I never used the cover because it only seemed to make the 404 wheel less aerodynamic rather than more.....

OneGoodLeg

Mar 22, 12 16:25

Post #9 of 14 (2340 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [PrivateAddress] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

PrivateAddress wrote:

It's all good and well to suggest a cover, BUT .... I suspect that most people recommending it have not tried it.... I purchased a Wheelbuilder "aerojacket" for a pair of 2012 Zipp Firecrest tubulars. First cover they sent didn't fit at all -- lots of warpage, lumps all over the place. They then sent a second cover, which was just a bit better in terms of warpage (but not by much, still the case that pushing one location caused a lump to pop up elsewhere) but the center hole on the non-drive side was cut so large that the spokes were showing. On top of that, the cover was sticking out at least a centimeter laterally relative to the hub flange so there was a gaping hole for air to enter and get trapped in the cover. I never used the cover because it only seemed to make the 404 wheel less aerodynamic rather than more.....

Please to be e'splaining how more air can get into the hole if it's already full of previously 'trapped' air...?

jackmott

Mar 22, 12 19:33

Post #10 of 14 (2268 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [PrivateAddress] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

air doesn't really work like you are imagining.

that said, on most wheels there isn't any gap. perhaps they haven't dialed in the cur for the firecrest 404 yet.

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

fs16scott

Mar 22, 12 21:25

Post #11 of 14 (2210 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

have you thought about just using a deep rear wheel instead? If you use HED's wheel calc it shows only 3-5 second difference on total time savings for an IM distance race. I was going to purchase a disk and saw this...now, I wonder why even bother with a disc, if a rear deep dish is lighter anyway...just a thought...maybe it's the 'cool factor' more than true time savings. I don't know for sure though

PrivateAddress

Apr 16, 12 9:58

Post #12 of 14 (1896 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [OneGoodLeg] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

OneGoodLeg wrote:

Please to be e'splaining how more air can get into the hole if it's already full of previously 'trapped' air...?

Don't you worry about the "e'splanation" -- during your next time trial, just install an open umbrella behind your bike. If you are right, this set-up won't increase drag and it won't slow you down, because the concave space is already full of air before you start. So there should be no problem.

FatandSlow

Apr 16, 12 21:29

Post #13 of 14 (1747 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [PrivateAddress] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I do run a cover from Wheelbuilder. And have for more than 4 years. Jon (sp?) Carron (former pro, JonnyO on this forum) did some testing on them a few years ago and reported that a cover on an 808 was faster than the 900 disk.

Not sure why you'd speculate about people recommending a cover don't run them.

Karl

Apr 16, 12 21:45

Post #14 of 14 (1733 views)

Re: Zipp/HED disc vs. Williams - which way to go? [GreekPT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I chose and like my covers from wheelbuilder. I wanted a power tap and didn't want to get a disc with power tap- Zipp-$3100.
Having said that, I like the Hed disc and the Williams wheel for the price. I talked to Williams in Oceanside and he said he will have some wind tunnel numbers for us soon. He may chime in a he does occasionally.