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Lance Interview and wattage
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eelie
Mar 16, 12 11:54
Post #26 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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no accusations, just curious. someone tried to post that article to the forums and you/dan removed it?
Ryon
Mar 16, 12 12:04
Post #27 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [gregf83]
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gregf83 wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Ryon, although the percentages change, what about the
absolute
amounts?
Don't people actually burn a higher absolute amount of fat at LT as compared to lower levels, but the % is lower because the amount of Glycogen being used up increases at a faster rate?
Not addressed to me but I think this graph shows the relationship between the absolute rate of fat oxidation and power. I forgotten what %VO2Max corresponds to LT but I assume it is higher than 65%.
Thanks. This is the phenomenon I was referring to. Not all calories are equal, and the metabolic demands (and thus, re-fueling demands) can differ by intensity.
At FTP I go through ~1300 calories in an hour. Lance, probably more so. The greater the amount of glycogen used, the more risk to bonk. I guess what I am trying to say is, although lance might be racing well under his threshold or FTP, there's no way he could actually raise his power output as much as he implies. I'm basically calling his bluff.
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dongustav
Mar 16, 12 12:04
Post #28 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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that's all fair. I actually didnt do the math for the 16 & 15kph paces he talked about...
While I don't think using Lance's NY Marathon is a valid gauge of his current fitness & body comp, I'm in agreement that 2:37 and 2:48 being the "conservative" pace are a bit optimistic given the likely conditions in kona.
devashish_paul
Mar 16, 12 12:04
Post #29 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [wink]
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wink wrote:
One thing about Leito, he races to win. He puts himself out there to win, and often doesn't come out on top. I'd rather go out with a shot to win, than like every other runner saving himself for the run. I've raced Lance, he's a freaking machine. I have no doubt he can crush the bike and crush the run.
If we put the bike last and the run second, would you still say lieto races to win, or would you say he's dogging the run and pacing the run to strategically save enough energy to win on the bike. The reason I mention this is that we all tend to look at each leg in isolation. I'm not sure I would not say he races to win. When the field is a bit weaker, he gets away with this strategy. If we changed the order, I bet he runs a lot hard and perhaps bikes less hard and that's enough for the win, but he seems to think that he NEEDS to bike that hard. I doubt he'd race that way if the run came before the bike.
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eelie
Mar 16, 12 12:35
Post #30 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [devashish_paul]
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devashish_paul wrote:
wink wrote:
One thing about Leito, he races to win. He puts himself out there to win, and often doesn't come out on top. I'd rather go out with a shot to win, than like every other runner saving himself for the run. I've raced Lance, he's a freaking machine. I have no doubt he can crush the bike and crush the run.
If we put the bike last and the run second, would you still say lieto races to win, or would you say he's dogging the run and pacing the run to strategically save enough energy to win on the bike. The reason I mention this is that we all tend to look at each leg in isolation. I'm not sure I would not say he races to win. When the field is a bit weaker, he gets away with this strategy. If we changed the order, I bet he runs a lot hard and perhaps bikes less hard and that's enough for the win, but he seems to think that he NEEDS to bike that hard. I doubt he'd race that way if the run came before the bike.
That's a hard comparison to make but it is very interesting. He'd absolutely run faster and probably have enough on the bike in that scenario to win. The problem is that by holding back a bit on the bike (with the run being last) I don't think he'd necessarily be any faster on the run. Those 7-12 minute leads off the bike in Kona will result in the same run IMO than if he had held back and came in with crowie. He's playing to his strengths.
I'm also sure he's thought about holding back. Either he's too stubborn to give it a try or he absolutely knows based on his training that it wouldn't make a difference.
camaleon
Mar 16, 12 12:53
Post #31 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Ryon]
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Ryon wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Ryon, although the percentages change, what about the
absolute
amounts?
Don't people actually burn a higher absolute amount of fat at LT as compared to lower levels, but the % is lower because the amount of Glycogen being used up increases at a faster rate?
Not addressed to me but I think this graph shows the relationship between the absolute rate of fat oxidation and power. I forgotten what %VO2Max corresponds to LT but I assume it is higher than 65%.
Thanks. This is the phenomenon I was referring to. Not all calories are equal, and the metabolic demands (and thus, re-fueling demands) can differ by intensity.
At FTP I go through ~1300 calories in an hour. Lance, probably more so. The greater the amount of glycogen used, the more risk to bonk. I guess what I am trying to say is, although lance might be racing well under his threshold or FTP, there's no way he could actually raise his power output as much as he implies. I'm basically calling his bluff.
I think he is talking about his projected new FTP (thru training) and not 50 more watts over his ***current*** FTP
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mrmoosey5
Mar 16, 12 13:12
Post #32 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [eelie]
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X2
I know this isn't a popular view, but I go through phases where I don't visit the site because the censorship [deleted] me. [moderator's edit].
http://snappletriteam.com/
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Travis R
Mar 16, 12 13:20
Post #33 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [camaleon]
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I'm curious if some of that 50 watts could be "made" by improving his position? He probably could go a little bit more aggressive than he did in Panama.
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need4speed
Mar 16, 12 13:23
Post #34 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Travis R]
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Travis R wrote:
I'm curious if some of that 50 watts could be "made" by improving his position? He probably could go a little bit more aggressive than he did in Panama.
Probably not on position/equipment alone for Hawaii because he will lose the disc.
Rappstar
Mar 16, 12 14:06
Post #35 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [eelie]
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eelie wrote:
no accusations, just curious. someone tried to post that article to the forums and you/dan removed it?
Yes. Someone posted it in isolation - something along the lines of "Check out what Michael Ferrari has to say about Lance," and we removed it for two reasons - the first one is our general policy of not allowing posts that simply serve to drive traffic to another site - i.e. check out this link, and the second was that we really don't have any interest in promoting Ferrari, even in a second or third hand fashion. I'd refer you to this article Dan wrote, which I think hopefully might give some insight into what we try to do with regards to obeying a moral compass on this site -
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ith_a_View_2178.html
There are (at least) two sides to every story, but I think it's worth considering that the Italian Cycling Federation banned Ferrari for life from coaching. On a personal level, I was uncomfortable with our own articles on the front page about Brett Sutton, who has also been banned for life from coaching, by the Australians. I would not have chosen to run those articles, but Dan did, though I respectfully disagree with that choice.
We've never made an effort to prohibit talk of Brett Sutton on this forum, though we've certainly had to shut down many discussions that have inevitably devolved into those who believe his past transgressions should not be held against him and those who do. I - personally - see Ferrari and Sutton in different lights, and while I certainly would concede there is probably a lot to learn from each, I'd also say that neither is an individual that I feel comfortable promoting.Though perhaps it was inappropriate to simply remove the link to Ferrari's post. I don't know. I spoke with the person who linked the article, and he thought it a reasonable decision. Maybe it wasn't. I'm not sure. Dan, Herbert, and I make decisions that often seem right at the time. Doesn't mean they were, and it doesn't mean they are. But that was the thought process behind taking that link down when it first appeared.
I suppose it was inevitable that the article came up again, and we didn't want to get in the habit of deleting it every time it was referenced, but anyway...
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ninesixfour
Mar 16, 12 19:42
Post #36 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [jackmott]
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jackmott wrote:
Lance at panama:
41.49kph aka 2 hour 10 minutes
using some reasonable wild ass guesses as to his CDA/weight this would imply maybe something like 315 watts that he put out at panama
if he raised that to 365 his speed would increase to:
43.7kph aka 2 hours and 3 minutes
this assumes idealized windless, hill-less courses.
so he probably put out more than 315 watts. but the time difference would on the order of 7 minutes either way.
I doubt a 50w increase in his one hour power would translate into a 50w gain in his 2+ hour power.
There is a Competitor Radio podcast with Carmichael from a few years ago where he talks about Lance's comeback and how quickly his power went up after very little training so if he has indeed been slacking off on the bike he may well have a good bit still to gain.
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Ex-cyclist
Mar 16, 12 20:01
Post #37 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Travis R]
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Travis R wrote:
I'm curious if some of that 50 watts could be "made" by improving his position? He probably could go a little bit more aggressive than he did in Panama.
Several thousand dollars spent at the San Diego LSWT says he's probably ok with his position.
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JimmyRiccitello
Mar 16, 12 20:31
Post #38 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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Man, you think too much.
Jimmy
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Garc
Mar 16, 12 22:49
Post #39 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [JimmyRiccitello]
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JimmyRiccitello wrote:
Man, you think too much.
Finally a voice of reason. Anyone who thinks Lance is going to Kona and embarrass himself by riding too hard/fast, etc. is crazy. He has nothing to prove by winning the bike leg.He will know exactly how hard to ride to optimize his ability to run off the bike--nothing more, nothing less. Rarely has there been an athlete who painstakinly attends to training and racing details as much as Lance has done. He will apply this same approach to his preparation for Kona. Lance is probably too old and inexperienced to be on the top podium step in Kona, but if he stays healthy he'll be in top 5.
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Trexlera
Mar 16, 12 23:36
Post #40 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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Jordan,
I agree with your reluctance to discuss Ferrari.
To be fair to the article, though, I think he's saying what it takes to win generally (e.g. the likely number of the winner), not that Lance can definitely knock out 2:40. The thought experiment proceeds from the winning time backwards.
I also agree that Lance doing that pace in Kona is hardly a given.
adal
Mar 17, 12 0:24
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [trexleradam]
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So the current assumption is, that Lance can process only so may carbs per hour, so he has to limit his biking to not deplete his fuel stores too much before the run.
I think this assumption misses an obvious point: Lance is a genetic freak and has money to support his needs. Maybe (I am speculating here) the powerbar ads of delivering more calories per hour actually work for Lance. Or maybe he can process 600-800 cal intake per hour. This would totally change the game and I think this is what will happen.
camaleon
Mar 17, 12 3:46
Post #42 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Garc]
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Garc wrote:
JimmyRiccitello wrote:
Man, you think too much.
Finally a voice of reason. Anyone who thinks Lance is going to Kona and embarrass himself by riding too hard/fast, etc. is crazy. He has nothing to prove by winning the bike leg.He will know exactly how hard to ride to optimize his ability to run off the bike--nothing more, nothing less. Rarely has there been an athlete who painstakinly attends to training and racing details as much as Lance has done. He will apply this same approach to his preparation for Kona. Lance is probably too old and inexperienced to be on the top podium step in Kona, but if he stays healthy he'll be in top 5.
this
I think that second place is the best thing that happened for him... That will fuel his fire to train harder
he is not half-in... He is going for the kill in Kona (IMO)
----------------
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Tri or Die
Mar 17, 12 6:30
Post #43 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [camaleon]
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How many Lance posts/hits does ST now have?
...I think 68,000+ Anyway to find out?
dongustav
Mar 17, 12 7:01
Post #44 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [JimmyRiccitello]
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cmon jimmy, post some more videos & pics from your man-cation w/ Lance. the one the other day was great.
btmoney
Mar 17, 12 7:22
Post #45 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Travis R]
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Travis R wrote:
I'm curious if some of that 50 watts could be "made" by improving his position? He probably could go a little bit more aggressive than he did in Panama.
I'd say lance knows more about his position than most of us know about, well anything.
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Travis R
Mar 17, 12 8:32
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [btmoney]
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Oh yeah, no doubt. I do recall an interview with him before Panama (and, of course, I can't find it now to back up my point, so maybe I'm completely full of it... lol!) where he opted for comfort over aggressiveness. I guess I took that to imply that maybe he could get some more out of it. It could be 3 watts, for all I know. lol! The flipside is obviously more aero isn't necessarily great if it's too uncomfortable to hold it.
In my attempt to find that article again, I did find this one, which has some interesting comments from Steve Hed:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...s_Tri_Bike_2568.html
"He's not that low," Hed continued. "Lance has always been better aerodynamically if he doesn't go that low in front. He's really comfortable in that position. Also, real narrow elbows don't help him much."
So, I guess we can totally disregard my Monday morning aerodynamicisting. I meant to add something to the conversation, but totally screwed that up. Sorry, I didn't try to act like I knew better than him. I'm just naturally this dumb. lol!
_______________________________________
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btmoney
Mar 17, 12 8:54
Post #47 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Travis R]
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Eh no worries. For 56 (and esp 112), I'd go for comfort over aggressiveness as well. This is especially important considering the run is his weakest leg.
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Rappstar
Mar 17, 12 10:14
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [JimmyRiccitello]
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JimmyRiccitello wrote:
Man, you think too much.
Thank you.
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bonesbrigade
Mar 17, 12 10:29
Post #49 of 68
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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Rappstar wrote:
JimmyRiccitello wrote:
Man, you think too much.
Thank you.
Funny, I read it as a compliment too!
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severinj
Mar 17, 12 14:47
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Re: Lance Interview and wattage [Rappstar]
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Well done.
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