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Legal advice: Re: Paypal

 
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Livetotri

Mar 14, 12 16:00

Post #1 of 138 (6765 views)
Legal advice: Re: Paypal Quote | Reply
I don't know if this belongs in the Lavendar room or what, if it does, mods please move it.

It's a long story but in short...I sold something to a buyer. He asked me to ship it to the Phillipines.

I didn't realize, but it wasn't his confirmed address on paypal.

Buyer requests that I insure the item (worth $3,800) for only $150 so he doesn't have to deal with customs. I do, to make him happy.

I move the money from paypal to my bank account (I never leave money in paypal, just in case something like this happens) and then receive an email telling me there was a chargeback on the buyer's credit card, I have a -3,850 balance in paypal.

I tell them what happened, after "buyer" opened a dispute, show them emails between me and the actual buyer...it turns out the credit card digits had been stolen.

Since I didn't ship to a confirmed address, I'm in trouble. I got a call today telling me they're going to turn to an outside collection agency if I don't begin to fill my negative balance.

What's my next move? What legal action can I take, and on whom?

Thanks very much guys, this is more money than I can afford to lose...

Various junk for sale

Eli Curt Fuld


KingJulian

Mar 14, 12 16:05

Post #2 of 138 (6733 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
First!


Half Fast

Mar 14, 12 16:05

Post #3 of 138 (6733 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Was the sale through ST?


(This post was edited by Commando on Mar 14, 12 16:06)


Livetotri

Mar 14, 12 16:12

Post #4 of 138 (6708 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Commando] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
No.

Various junk for sale

Eli Curt Fuld


elecengrman

Mar 14, 12 16:14

Post #5 of 138 (6702 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Can't you just provide proof of shipment and some proof of what you sent?
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Livetotri

Mar 14, 12 16:16

Post #6 of 138 (6690 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [elecengrman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
The problem is that the credit card was stolen and the man who I shipped it too isn't the owner of the credit card.

I asked the same thing you did, well, I yelled the same thing you did. He told me that since I operated outside of paypal and the address was unconfirmed, there's no further action to be taken.

...bs. Being robbed feels terrible.

Various junk for sale

Eli Curt Fuld


yimmy

Mar 14, 12 16:17

Post #7 of 138 (6687 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Commando] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Where did you sell the item? Did you see anything on the transaction page stating the transaction was "eligible" or "partially eligible"?


(This post was edited by yimmy on Mar 14, 12 16:18)


mopdahl

Mar 14, 12 16:19

Post #8 of 138 (6674 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Was it thru ebay? There are some seller protections there. Some. But paypal is owned by ebay.....

Honestly, if you shipped to an unconfirmed address you are probably screwed. Paypal will send to collection agency. You will get dinged on your credit (but in 99% likelihood that is all that will happen--most collection agencies are lazy). You will be harassed with phone calls from them for the next 1-3 years, and then they'll stop.

If you don't want to pay it make sure you close all the bank accounts & credit cards associated with paypal & ebay so they can't ding them. Open up new accounts at a different bank.

You also will likely never be able to sell or buy on paypal, and possibly ebay again.

Or pay them. You aren't the first this has happened to, and they'll likely accept long-term arrangement (possibly at zero or low interest) IF you talk with them.

Or fight them in small claims court. And raise a VERY public stink. Paypal/ebay HATE bad publicity, probably more than not getting paid.
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7718

Mar 14, 12 16:29

Post #9 of 138 (6633 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
so you sold something and you were paid with a stolen credit card? but didn't know?


CruseVegas

Mar 14, 12 16:37

Post #10 of 138 (6601 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I believe you are liable for the amount based on the info you provided.

I would contact the local authorities and report the "theft" and contact your homeowners insurance co. I don't know that this will be covered but you don't have anything to lose at this point.

Good luck and sorry to hear you are having to deal with this.
************************

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012


Thomas Gerlach

Mar 14, 12 16:38

Post #11 of 138 (6597 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
 
Livetotri wrote:
What legal action can I take, and on whom? .
It is a terrible situation but I think you should take responsibility for your own mistakes instead of looking to act upon someone else. It isn't paypal/ebay's fault that you shipped to non-confirmed address, and it isn't their fault that you didn't insure the package for the appropriate amount. Likely doing this wouldn't have offered a lot of recourse but it may have prevented the deal from going through in the first place.

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Livetotri

Mar 14, 12 16:45

Post #12 of 138 (6560 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [7718] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Yes, I didn't know.

Various junk for sale

Eli Curt Fuld


Livetotri

Mar 14, 12 16:46

Post #13 of 138 (6554 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [yimmy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I had the item listed on eBay, buyer offered to pay outside to save fees.

Various junk for sale

Eli Curt Fuld


Jamaican

Mar 14, 12 16:50

Post #14 of 138 (6535 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Livetotri wrote:
Buyer offered to pay outside to save fees.

Red flag

You'd be surprised how many deals fall through & buyers disappear when you insist on keeping the transaction 'legit', regardless of fees/customs etc. I think ebay even suggests that you don't execute the transaction outside because then you won't be protected.

Good luck with your case.

I'm sorry I offended you when I called you stupid. I honestly thought you knew.
For Sale: TT Helmet |

(This post was edited by Jamaican on Mar 14, 12 16:51)


MSantos

Mar 14, 12 16:54

Post #15 of 138 (6515 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
It's a case of the credit provider protecting the cardholder from fraud. They back charge PayPal who now shifts that burden towards you. This among others is a way of Paypal bullying members. It's David vs Goliath. Worse, it will hurt your credit, which can potentially cost more than $3850. Best of luck with this.


running2far

Mar 14, 12 17:12

Post #16 of 138 (6467 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
You're liable...

There are a lot of red flags

1. Contact outside of ebay
2. unconfirmed address
3. philippine - scam hot bed.


You've taken away all your safety nets with ebay and paypal here (same company anyway).






(This post was edited by running2far on Mar 14, 12 17:14)


MSantos

Mar 14, 12 17:20

Post #17 of 138 (6434 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
You can report the person associated with that eBay account. If push comes to shove PayPal/eBay will have to protet itself from these folks and this guy will set precedent.


MSantos

Mar 14, 12 17:23

Post #18 of 138 (6423 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [running2far] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
3. philippine - scam hot bed.

May I ask what's your basis for this?


jonahsdad

Mar 14, 12 17:33

Post #19 of 138 (6379 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Livetotri wrote:
I had the item listed on eBay, buyer offered to pay outside to save fees.

Sorry to be the mean guy, but posting the item on ebay and then selling it outside to avoid fees is essentially stealing from ebay. Karma sucks. I wouldn't expect them to be very helpful after you just cheated them out of their fees.


running2far

Mar 14, 12 17:39

Post #20 of 138 (6364 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [MSantos] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Every few weeks someone asks about a website and is it real..they're all based out of Indonesia or Philippine area. The websites look real with unbelievable prices and they are....scam city. I personally had a craigslist posting and got a note from a "local guy" that wanted to ship to the Philippines so the bike would be waiting for him....


MSantos

Mar 14, 12 17:46

Post #21 of 138 (6343 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [running2far] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Like I told livetotri this is not representative of our country but I understand how these crooks make a bad name for their own people.

One bad apple spoils the bunch


rroof

Mar 14, 12 17:53

Post #22 of 138 (6321 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Sorry to hear. I rarely ebay any longer and I don't use PayPal anymore at all. I'll sell/buy on a couple of forums that I'm on (including ST, but only to people I "recognize" and I've had nothing but good buys and sells here).
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Bmanners

Mar 14, 12 18:02

Post #23 of 138 (6281 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [rroof] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
X2 btw.....i am looking for a wind tunnel:0) eli sorry to hear about what happend.
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triathlonshots

Mar 14, 12 18:11

Post #24 of 138 (6253 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I have read all the info you have told us. I feel bad for you as it is theft. Paypal should really try and do something but chasing criminals in Phillipines is no doubt outside their jurisdiction.

You have made a lot of mistakes with this trade. I am not convinced full insurance would have helped you, and I wouldn't rely on that.

One point I didn't see above is the option of a tracked signature on receival shipping method. And you must keep the sale within ebay. I will have to read up ebay to find out more about registered addresses as I don't look at that aspect.

I sell a lot of triathlon gear world wide and have had no issue with the 3 or more sales i recall to Phillipines. I have sold a dozen or more times to Brazil and mostly Sao Paulo and only half those items got through. I tried to keep all country sale points open but Brazil is the only one I am blocking so far. Using tracked post from where I am based is cost prohibitive to distant countries so I wouldn't send anything expensive to them.

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(This post was edited by triathlonshots on Mar 14, 12 18:24)


cswim10

Mar 14, 12 18:13

Post #25 of 138 (6247 views)
Re: Legal advice: Re: Paypal [Livetotri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I'd hire a lawyer and give them a small retainer upfront and see what they can do for you.

I know you probably don't want to hear this. But, the way it stands, it's not looking like you are going to get out of this cleanly. Hiring a lawyer sends paypal and the collection agency the message that you are serious about this and a lot of times just having a lawyer advocate on your behalf is going to get you much more favorable treatment and terms than if you do it yourself.

But, too many people end up paying more in attorney fees than if they had just paid up front. So, if you do go the lawyer route, just make sure you tell them upfront to not go crazy on this. Have them make a few phone calls and see what they can do.

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