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Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control

 

   


FLA Jill

Mar 13, 12 6:33

Post #1 of 25 (1898 views)
Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control Quote | Reply

http://www.aclu.org/...-control-youre-fired

Quote:
Sadly, that isnít even the half of it. You may want to sit down for this one. Arizona legislators know that whether or not her insurance covers it, a woman may get the prescription she needs to prevent an unintended pregnancy. They want to give her boss the right to control that too. The bill they are pushing would not only allow employers to take the insurance coverage away, but it would also make it easier for an employer who finds out that his employee uses birth control to fire her. You heard me right . . . to fire her.

In Tennessee, I had coworkers who had an Accutane baby before the really horrible birth defects from the drug were widely known. They loved their son dearly, but if they'd had full knowledge of that possible side effect of her medication, then they would have definitely gone the pill plus barrier method while she was finishing the course of treatment in order to prevent conception until it was safe to do so.

So yeah, call the example a strawman if you want, but it's the kind of bad legislation that can have some really awful consequences.


Brick

Mar 13, 12 6:38

Post #2 of 25 (1886 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I did not see a link to the bill. Do you have one?


Quel

Mar 13, 12 6:38

Post #3 of 25 (1882 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I can't help but notice that nearly every controversial health insurance issue that seems to come up is directly tied to one simple fact: health insurance is tied to your employment.


Brick

Mar 13, 12 6:49

Post #4 of 25 (1852 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I spent a few minutes looking for the text of the bill but could not find it. However, none of the other reports on the bill that I found mentioned that it permits an employer to fire someone for using birth control. Curious.


FLA Jill

Mar 13, 12 6:58

Post #5 of 25 (1840 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Found the bill here:

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/596074

The ACLU's complaint is that the bill removes the following line from existing legislation on the issue:

"E. A religious employer shall not discriminate against an employee who independently chooses to obtain insurance coverage or prescriptions for contraceptives from another source."


Brick

Mar 13, 12 7:06

Post #6 of 25 (1824 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I see. Thanks.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I wonder if there is any clause in any other law in Arizona that prevents a religious employer or any employer from discriminating against anyone who uses birth control? Even with this clause in place, could a non-religious employer discriminate against a person who used birth control?


Rodred

Mar 13, 12 7:10

Post #7 of 25 (1816 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The fact it is coming from the ACLU makes it even more curious . Hmmmmmm.......


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson


Rodred

Mar 13, 12 7:11

Post #8 of 25 (1816 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No. It would be kicked out in a nano second and rightfully so.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson

(This post was edited by Rodred on Mar 13, 12 7:11)


STP

Mar 13, 12 7:15

Post #9 of 25 (1808 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

So, the change is that under current state law, if you are working in the rectory of a Catholic church, or at a parish school, say as the directory of religious education, the priest running the parish can not fire you for using birth control or publicly advocating about birth control but under the proposed law, with that section deleted, he might be able to?

Seems like the kind of change the ACLU, if it was true to its mission, would embrace.


klehner

Mar 13, 12 7:29

Post #10 of 25 (1787 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Brick wrote:
I see. Thanks.


It seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I wonder if there is any clause in any other law in Arizona that prevents a religious employer or any employer from discriminating against anyone who uses birth control? Even with this clause in place, could a non-religious employer discriminate against a person who used birth control?


I think this is the offensive section:

Z. NOTWITHSTANDING SUBSECTION Y OF THIS SECTION, A CONTRACT DOES NOT FAIL TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF SUBSECTION Y OF THIS SECTION IF THE CONTRACT'S FAILURE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE OF SPECIFIC ITEMS OR SERVICES REQUIRED UNDER SUBSECTION Y OF THIS SECTION IS BECAUSE PROVIDING OR PAYING FOR COVERAGE OF THE SPECIFIC ITEMS OR SERVICES IS CONTRARY TO THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OF THE EMPLOYER, SPONSOR, ISSUER, CORPORATION OR OTHER ENTITY OFFERING THE PLAN OR IS BECAUSE THE COVERAGE IS CONTRARY TO THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OF THE PURCHASER OR BENEFICIARY OF THE COVERAGE. IF AN OBJECTION TRIGGERS THIS SUBSECTION, A WRITTEN AFFIDAVIT SHALL BE FILED WITH THE CORPORATION STATING THE OBJECTION. THE CORPORATION SHALL RETAIN THE AFFIDAVIT FOR THE DURATION OF THE CONTRACT AND ANY RENEWALS OF THE CONTRACT. THIS SUBSECTION SHALL NOT EXCLUDE COVERAGE FOR PRESCRIPTION CONTRACEPTIVE METHODS ORDERED BY A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER WITH PRESCRIPTIVE AUTHORITY FOR MEDICAL INDICATIONS OTHER THAN FOR CONTRACEPTIVE, ABORTIFACIENT, ABORTION OR STERILIZATION PURPOSES. A CORPORATION, EMPLOYER, SPONSOR, ISSUER OR OTHER ENTITY OFFERING THE PLAN MAY STATE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OR MORAL CONVICTIONS IN ITS AFFIDAVIT THAT REQUIRE THE SUBSCRIBER TO FIRST PAY FOR THE PRESCRIPTION AND THEN SUBMIT A CLAIM TO THE CORPORATION ALONG WITH EVIDENCE THAT THE PRESCRIPTION IS NOT IN WHOLE OR IN PART FOR A PURPOSE COVERED BY THE OBJECTION. A CORPORATION MAY CHARGE AN ADMINISTRATIVE FEE FOR HANDLING THESE CLAIMS.


I think the fact that an employee who gets contraceptives through the plan must affirm that said contraceptives is not for, well, contraception. If the affidavit isn't provided, that would amount to a violation of the contract (insurance fraud?) and subject the employee to termination. But I'm not a lawyer. This section is repeated half a dozen times in the amended bill.

http://www.azleg.gov/...m&Session_ID=107

Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy


jkca1

Mar 13, 12 7:33

Post #11 of 25 (1775 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Any business promoting this mentality loses my business.


"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."


AutomaticJack

Mar 13, 12 7:35

Post #12 of 25 (1768 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Quel] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quel wrote:
I can't help but notice that nearly every controversial health insurance issue that seems to come up is directly tied to one simple fact: health insurance is tied to your employment.

Yep. Make it a Federal program paid by your Federal Taxes each year and all these silly ass problems go away.

Oh wait, that supposedly violates the Constitution, that thing getting bashed in the DOJ thread because in that case they don't like it.


vibrolux

Mar 13, 12 7:38

Post #13 of 25 (1765 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [klehner] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

How the hell does this not violate the HIPPA laws? I smell tons of lawsuits.

I'm so sick of hearing about birth control I can't stand it anymore.


Brick

Mar 13, 12 7:40

Post #14 of 25 (1760 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [klehner] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think the fact that an employee who gets contraceptives through the plan must affirm that said contraceptives is not for, well, contraception. If the affidavit isn't provided, that would amount to a violation of the contract (insurance fraud?) and subject the employee to termination. But I'm not a lawyer. This section is repeated half a dozen times in the amended bill.

The affidavit is provided by the entity or employer who objects to providing birth control benefits. The person using birth control for other medicinal reasons may be required to front the costs and then seek reimbursement. The claim for reimbursement must include the normally required medical information for coverage of any illness, injury or malady.

I think the piece that they are suggesting allows someone to be fired is the removal of an antidiscrimination clause directed at religious employers.




MJuric

Mar 13, 12 7:40

Post #15 of 25 (1761 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [vibrolux] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm so sick of hearing about birth control I can't stand it anymore.

Condom...Pill...IUD...you're gonna snap aren't you...withdraw...norplant....ha, ha...you're close aren't you?

~Matt




STP

Mar 13, 12 7:47

Post #16 of 25 (1747 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [AutomaticJack] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Why don't we just have people pay for their own health insurance?

If the answer is "its too expensive," having the government pay does not fix that problem, only sweeps it under the rug.

There are lots of good arguments in favor of making birth control widely and cheaply available, but there is not one single sound argument in favor of mandating that employers provide insurance coverage for it.


(This post was edited by STP on Mar 13, 12 7:48)


Duffy

Mar 13, 12 8:20

Post #17 of 25 (1714 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If my employees don't like the health plan I offer they can buy their own fucking plan.


Did you surf today?


Brick

Mar 13, 12 8:21

Post #18 of 25 (1710 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Duffy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Duffy wrote:
If my employees don't like the health plan I offer they can buy their own fucking plan.

Pun intended?


AutomaticJack

Mar 13, 12 8:29

Post #19 of 25 (1700 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [STP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

STP wrote:
Why don't we just have people pay for their own health insurance?

That's more or less what the Obama Health Plan does, only if forces people to pay.

Everyone wants it, nobody wants to pay for it, and a very vocal group resents being told they have to pay for it. (Even though I bet most of them are already paying for it)


Quel

Mar 13, 12 8:56

Post #20 of 25 (1673 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Duffy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Duffy wrote:
If my employees don't like the health plan I offer they can buy their own fucking plan.


Yet another piece of information that reinforces my opinion that the employer-based insurance model is dumb.

I would gladly consider dropping my employer's coverage if I could get the equivalent cash compensation. I can't. I think the company I work for gives you $25/mo cash if you don't join the coverage. It's basically a small benefit for those who have better coverage through their spouse, but that's it. And even if I could get the cash equivalent, you can't buy even CLOSE to as good of a plan for the money as an individual.


(This post was edited by Quel on Mar 13, 12 8:57)


realAlbertan

Mar 13, 12 8:56

Post #21 of 25 (1671 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [STP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Government care is cheaper and just as effective for the average citizen. Insurance & for profit care is why the US spends the most per capita in the world, but somehow can't provide coverage for all.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M - 400 & 1500 m Freestyle/200 m Butterfly


STP

Mar 13, 12 9:18

Post #22 of 25 (1646 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [realAlbertan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think the reason we pay so much here is that no one involved in the process knows how much anything cost nor do any of the partcipants have any real interest in trying to cut costs.

Here is how our system works here. My wife had some elective surgury a couple months ago. Now, if it had been my car instead of my wife, I could very easiyly shopped around gotten mutliple estimates and then picked based on some combination of price and repuation on who was going to do the work. Or, being that this was elective, I could have chosen to put it off or try a cheaper alternative. (And, with my car, I also have some incentive to change the oil and keep up on regular maintanence since I have to pay for repairs, but I digress)

But, here in the US, just try finding out how much medical treatment will cost. On my wife's thing, we never did find out how much the actual cost was. It took 2 weeks worth of getting shuttled back and forth between the hospital, doctor and insurnace company just to find out how much our out of pocke would be after insurnace. Shockingly, the doctor had no clue how much the surgery cost. The hospital presumably had some idea but would not tell us. Eventually, I found out the procedure was covered and what my co pay would be but I still have no idea what I really "spent" in terms of the total cost. All I know at this point is what I personnally have to pay but that is only a fraction of the cost. And, under our system, I have absolutely no incentive to shop around or, even any real economic incentives to engage in practices that might avoid medical expenses.

This is no way to run a system if you want to have any prayer of getting costs under control. We don't even know what the costs are.

Someone is going to have to make cost decisions. They are painful. But, we are going towards a system where 100% of the decision is in the hands of the government. I would prefer that I have a hand in that. I think that would work better. I do not believe the government is going to have my personal interests in mind when they make decisions (do any of you?) I am going to get screwed on both ends. My care will be less and at a lower standard. And, I am going to have to pump more tax dollars into the government program to keep it afloat.

How can this be the best solution?


realAlbertan

Mar 13, 12 9:44

Post #23 of 25 (1618 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [STP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here's my take. We have one set of unions to deal with a single employer, not each hospital leap frogging the next like you probably have. The medical association collectively bargains for their fee schedule, they have to charge that fee no matter what. We do have some cost escalations and hard choices, but nobody loses their house paying for care.

There is no way to fix your system without price control regulation IMO.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M - 400 & 1500 m Freestyle/200 m Butterfly


Duffy

Mar 13, 12 9:49

Post #24 of 25 (1612 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [Quel] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quel wrote:
Duffy wrote:
If my employees don't like the health plan I offer they can buy their own fucking plan.


Yet another piece of information that reinforces my opinion that the employer-based insurance model is dumb.

I would gladly consider dropping my employer's coverage if I could get the equivalent cash compensation. I can't. I think the company I work for gives you $25/mo cash if you don't join the coverage. It's basically a small benefit for those who have better coverage through their spouse, but that's it. And even if I could get the cash equivalent, you can't buy even CLOSE to as good of a plan for the money as an individual.

My guys are given the choice. They can take the plan or the money (my cost). No one takes the money. I'd rather they did because it's one less headache.


Did you surf today?


STP

Mar 13, 12 10:06

Post #25 of 25 (1595 views)
Re: Arizona bill allows employers to fire people for using birth control [realAlbertan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Maybe so. The problem down here is we are not changing anything, just moving it from emplopyers and insurance companies (a less than ideal setup) to the government telling employers and insurance companies what they have to do.

The birth control thing perfectly illustrateds how guffy this is. Its gotten lost in the politics but basically, we are taking a pill that costs (for most, but not all women) about the same per month as a case of beer and the government is requiring insurance companies to pay 100% of the cost. Since 90% of the woman in America can surely afford a case of beer per month, why is the government mandating that evey one of them (millionaire 1 percenters included) get free pills?

I'm fine with helping out the poor folks but no one, and I mean no one, who can afford to pay $15 a month for anything should be getting it for "free" from the goverment or under a government mandate put on employers or insurance companies.

   
 
 
 



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