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Wiggins vs. Schleck
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jackmott
Mar 5, 12 18:37
Post #101 of 180
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Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Shoopdawoop]
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that one is close, but not quite p3 with the shape and the huge gap.
interestingly though, the shape is close to the p5!
Memorial day sale at ATC and Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed - Sat May 25 - Captex!
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jackmott
Mar 5, 12 18:39
Post #102 of 180
(2816 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Carl Spackler]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Jan had plenty of help and was more successful as a pure TTer. So the supply side argument doesn't play
Poor Jan, born just a little later and he might have won 3 or 4 tours.
Memorial day sale at ATC and Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed - Sat May 25 - Captex!
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Power13
Mar 5, 12 19:17
Post #103 of 180
(2789 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Carl Spackler]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Yeah,
see here
. Stokes is legit on reporting.
Contador was also linked to Movistar when that team formed, which makes sense like Cav > Sky. There was also a CyclingNews article citing a report that said he was done with Saxo, which all parties denied. That probably means it's accurate.
Sheesh...how the hell did I miss that?
Spot on w/ your last sentence....LOL!!
__________________________________________________
“I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign." - Greg Lemond
rufio
Mar 5, 12 19:49
Post #104 of 180
(2765 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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i will 100% admit to being half drunk when i started this thread the other night. i never expected over 100 responses, and certainly not one from somebody who actually helped schleck with his fit!
i'll echo what Tom A. said...it can be tough making a horse drink. andy looks way better in the photos from his retul fit than he does at paris-nice. granted looks aren't everything, but in this case i think a convincing argument can be made that his position has deteriorated since those pictures were taken.
i really, really, really, really want to like andy schleck. unfortunately i get the feeling that he's not fully committed to improving as a time trialist, and that is disappointing.
%FTP
Mar 5, 12 20:19
Post #105 of 180
(2748 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Carl Spackler]
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I see you, and I raise 2 more.
If what Mat says is true, I say that Andy won't be able to pull out a top 5 slot.
I want him to, but he lost so much time to Cadel in 1 TT last year. How much more could he lose? I'm thinking of 2010 Kona now, and how Macca just buried the bike to mentally target Crowie. You better believe every GC guy will be targeting the TT to tank Andy mentally.
Carl Spackler wrote:
3/5/12: put me on the record that Andy doesn't even make the TdF podium this year.
Rick in the D
Mar 5, 12 20:30
Post #106 of 180
(2740 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Carl Spackler]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
3/5/12: put me on the record that Andy doesn't even make the TdF podium this year.
There's 60 miles of ITT in this years' tour.
I buy this.
------------------
- I do all my own stunts
Mat Steinmetz
Mar 6, 12 6:26
Post #107 of 180
(2639 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Tom A.]
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I think part of the problem, is that the help is in and out...like in my case. I made changes, but was not able to see them through. I'm biased, but I feel that I can help improve his TTing skills...However, so do many others. Who do you listen to? Andy listened to me enough to make big changes, but am I a familiar face to him? No. In steps someone Andy knows and trusts...they may or may not know what they are doing, but want to leave their mark on the problem. The position or technique changes again. Maybe Andy sticks with that...maybe it doesn't work and because he doesn't know what to do...reverts back to what he'd done in the past.
What needs to happen...is that someone who knows what they're doing. Someone who's not going to be scared to force change. Someone who can see it through and make the small adjustments along the way via rider feedback.
These changes were first made in December when we were out in Calpe for the first camp. Several weeks later, we went back to Spain for Radioshack's second camp. I asked Andy how the changes were and he said that he had not ridden his TT bike since. Therein lies part the problem. The TT position is an adaptable one. Ask anyone who rarely rides the position to go out and ride it for an hour and they'll come back complaining. Tell them to keep doing it and soon enough, those early complaints will be gone.
Mat Steinmetz
FiftyoneSPEEDSHOP.com
@matsteinmetz
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(This post was
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by Mat Steinmetz on Mar 6, 12 6:40)
jackmott
Mar 6, 12 6:29
Post #108 of 180
(2631 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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It is pretty fascinating that a guy can focus so carefully and sacrifice so much in general, and fail to address the primary problem that prevents him from winning the tour.
I mean the guy clearly forgoes *eating*,and deals with an insane grind of training and suffering. But ride the TT bike twice a week? No, can't be bothered!
Memorial day sale at ATC and Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed - Sat May 25 - Captex!
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Mat Steinmetz
Mar 6, 12 6:29
Post #109 of 180
(2629 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [jackmott]
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from Indiana, living in Boulder.
Mat Steinmetz
FiftyoneSPEEDSHOP.com
@matsteinmetz
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jackmott
Mar 6, 12 6:31
Post #110 of 180
(2627 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
from Indiana, living in Boulder.
next time I visit I'm bringing my tri bike. See if I can talk you into fitting me. I promise to have ridden the bike many times several weeks later =)
Memorial day sale at ATC and Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
damon_rinard
Mar 6, 12 6:32
Post #111 of 180
(2626 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [jackmott]
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Yes, it's amazing isn't it?
But remember, these guys travel a lot, and don't always have the bike with them. They ride whatever bike the team arranges to be wherever they're going.
It's another example of how we stay-at-home (for the most part) amateurs have a not insignificant advantage over pros. Less chaos in our lives.
===========
Damon Rinard, Senior Advanced R&D Engineer
Vroomen.White.Design
http://www.cervelo.com
http://www.bbright.net
Mat Steinmetz
Mar 6, 12 6:35
Post #112 of 180
(2616 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [devashish_paul]
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Hard to say about who's giving the advice. I don't think seeing up the road is a problem...if it is, he needs to practice and learn how to hold that position while navigating. Many others do it and Andy is not an anomaly.
Mat Steinmetz
FiftyoneSPEEDSHOP.com
@matsteinmetz
facebook
camaleon
Mar 6, 12 6:44
Post #113 of 180
(2601 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Rick in the D]
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Rick in the D wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
3/5/12: put me on the record that Andy doesn't even make the TdF podium this year.
There's 60 miles of ITT in this years' tour.
I buy this.
I'll third the motion!
----------------
You'll learn when you're over your head you CAN dig deeper despite what your legs are telling you.
Tom A.
Mar 6, 12 6:51
Post #114 of 180
(2585 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
These changes were first made in December when we were out in Calpe for the first camp. Several weeks later, we went back to Spain for Radioshack's second camp. I asked Andy how the changes were and he said that he had not ridden his TT bike since. Therein lies part the problem. The TT position is an adaptable one. Ask anyone who rarely rides the position to go out and ride it for an hour and they'll come back complaining. Tell them to keep doing it and soon enough, those early complaints will be gone.
Thanks Mat...that above paragraph is golden :-)
You would think that if a top rider's main focus for the year is the TdF, and they've actually
won it
in the past, that looking at this year's parcours SOMEONE in the team management would make sure that Andy scheduled adequate TT training and had the bikes available to him.
I'm sure Andy probably doesn't like to train on the TT bike. I'd bet he'd rather go out climbing cols...but, as we all know, you don't get better at the things you don't train. Unfortunately, if left to our own devices, most of us revert to training our strengths (because we're GOOD at them!) as opposed to working on our weaknesses.
C'est la vie...<shrug>
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Devlin
Mar 6, 12 7:07
Post #115 of 180
(2563 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [styrrell]
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styrrell wrote:
For protour guys I wouldn't think trading off climbing for TT work would pay off. They spend way more time climbing and a bad day on a climb can cost tons of time. I think AS is doing what he can and should. His position has improved a ton over the years, get him on the right equipment and have him ride the TT bike on many of his easy days so he is comfortable on it.
He'll never take time on any of his current comp in a TT but he may not lose enough to matter.
He lost a minute+ in a ~ 6 mile TT. Multiply that by 10. No way anyone can lose 10 minutes to the leaders (in the TdF) and still podium without a miracle in the mountains.
John
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Insidious
Mar 6, 12 7:20
Post #116 of 180
(2545 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Devlin]
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Despite all this I am still pulling for a AS win. Something about his energy on the good days is just awesome to behold. I don't think hes a weak racer by any means, just young and still developing his mental game. Maybe he stays a pure climber and never really changes his stripes for GC (or can't). Hampsten comes to mind, one of the most brilliant American talents of the last era but needed a climbers race to pull off the win(s). What can I say, I was a fanboy the first time I saw him race :).
I wonder what a year or two of focused weights and plyometrics would do for Schleck? Ruin his climbing grace and make him not much faster in the TT? Or put five-ten lbs of muscle on his frame and up his watts enough to compensate for it? He's got a rare engine anyway......
The tour gave him his shot with the course last year however an alpdhuez tt and all that climbing again might be an even bigger favor.
bwain
Mar 6, 12 7:26
Post #117 of 180
(2536 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
Anyone know what extensions those are?
Mat Steinmetz
Mar 6, 12 7:27
Post #118 of 180
(2535 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [bwain]
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Hed ski bend
Mat Steinmetz
FiftyoneSPEEDSHOP.com
@matsteinmetz
facebook
bwain
Mar 6, 12 7:27
Post #119 of 180
(2532 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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thanks!
Power13
Mar 6, 12 7:42
Post #120 of 180
(2505 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Devlin]
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Devlin wrote:
styrrell wrote:
For protour guys I wouldn't think trading off climbing for TT work would pay off. They spend way more time climbing and a bad day on a climb can cost tons of time. I think AS is doing what he can and should. His position has improved a ton over the years, get him on the right equipment and have him ride the TT bike on many of his easy days so he is comfortable on it.
He'll never take time on any of his current comp in a TT but he may not lose enough to matter.
He lost a minute+ in a ~ 6 mile TT. Multiply that by 10. No way anyone can lose 10 minutes to the leaders (in the TdF) and still podium without a miracle in the mountains.
John
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way.....different efforts required for a <6 mile TT vs. a longer one. So the time differences per mile become smaller over longer distances....
__________________________________________________
“I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign." - Greg Lemond
devashish_paul
Mar 6, 12 7:45
Post #121 of 180
(2507 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Mat Steinmetz]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
Hard to say about who's giving the advice. I don't think seeing up the road is a problem...if it is, he needs to practice and learn how to hold that position while navigating. Many others do it and Andy is not an anomaly.
Thanks Mat....yes, obviously guys ride positions like that in Grand Tour TT's which is why I posted the picture of Boardman on his Corima. He road his Cougar Road TT bike in a very similar position to numerous TdF Prologue victories on very technical courses (Jackmott will love this picture....complete with downtube shifters).
It's actually shocking that he has not ridden the TT bike. Putting aside the travel woes, the rest of us who are professioanls at 'something else' when we go on business travel we have the right tools with us to win and beat the competition. If he does not have his TT bike handy on business travel this is clearly a failing of not only him, but his company.
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Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
Power13
Mar 6, 12 7:55
Post #122 of 180
(2488 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [devashish_paul]
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I don't think he ever rode the Cougar frame in TdF prologues.
Side note - he only has a DT shifter on the left side. He is running Mavic Zap for the RD.
__________________________________________________
“I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign." - Greg Lemond
devashish_paul
Mar 6, 12 8:03
Post #123 of 180
(2481 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [Power13]
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The image shows it was ridden at the Grand Prix Eddy Merckx, so you are probably correct. I don't know how technical the course is/was at GP Eddy Merckx, but I suppose the main point is that you can navigate a bike riding like he did.
Here is a position picture on his Look....was it KG386?
cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
Dreadnought
Mar 6, 12 11:39
Post #124 of 180
(2372 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [rufio]
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rufio wrote:
What say you all to this..valid comparison or no?
Is Wiggins' position the deciding factor?https://twitter.com/...s/176423304838660096[/quote[/url]]
Anyone noice the chainring on Wiggins' bike? Looks like an O'Symmetric. How much of a factor is it?
[img]http://p.twimg.com/AnLID5-CQAIJfJw.jpg:large[/img]
AWC3
Mar 6, 12 12:46
Post #125 of 180
(2317 views)
Re: Wiggins vs. Schleck [rufio]
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Lets see he has had Cervelo, Specialized, Trek resources to improve his TT'ing, as well as several teammates who were/are excellent at TT.
If he was going to be a contender in the time trial it would of happened by now.
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