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Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem

 

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SU-27

Feb 27, 12 2:05

Post #1 of 43 (8523 views)
Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem Quote | Reply

Just bought new e118 and experienced the problem: can not fix aerobars firmly, especially with spacers, which I need. Aerobars always running horizontal way, even if I fix it tighter then produced suggests.


gabbiev

Feb 27, 12 3:24

Post #2 of 43 (8483 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

SU-27 wrote:
Just bought new e118 and experienced the problem: can not fix aerobars firmly, especially with spacers, which I need. Aerobars always running horizontal way, even if I fix it tighter then produced suggests.

I'm building an e118 right now--are you talking about the extensions, or are the basebars rotating?


SU-27

Feb 27, 12 3:34

Post #3 of 43 (8473 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [gabbiev] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Extensions. It fixed by two screws each and it is not enough. At least in my case? Let me know if you have same probs when you get to this stage of your bike building. Will try to post fotos.


TimAndrus

Feb 27, 12 3:39

Post #4 of 43 (8469 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Not familiar with your bike or problem. But it sounds like the clamp is slightly larger than the extensions. A shim of electrical tape or a slice of an aluminum soda can might be the trick to tightening that gap up a smidgen

But that's just my answer from my couch at the moment

Tim
Rev3Rush


gabbiev

Feb 27, 12 3:43

Post #5 of 43 (8465 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

SU-27 wrote:
Extensions. It fixed by two screws each and it is not enough. At least in my case? Let me know if you have same probs when you get to this stage of your bike building. Will try to post fotos.

I did a couple of things--first, I made sure that I used the silver shim that sits inside of the extension's socket, beneath the aerobar extension, so that the set screw pushes up against it, and not the aerobar. Cover the end of the bar that goes into the socket with carbon paste; I used normal toothpaste (seriously) as simple replacement for the carbon paste in this application. Finally note that the e118's extensions require a wider diameter extension than what is used by Hed, Zipp, Profile, and others--there are only a limited number of aftermarket extensions that will work easily with the Argon bars.

As I don't need the height adjustment that the Argon bars offer, I ended up swapping in a set of Vison's integrated bars. I didn't have a problem with the bars moving, though, when I originally configure the bike with Argon's.


Duncan74

Feb 27, 12 8:48

Post #6 of 43 (8374 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [gabbiev] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hmm, interesting. One of mine on my E114 came loose on teh course recce at IMNZ 2 weeks ago. Rough road, but had been fine up to then. The actual bolt in the bottom kept working loose, even after I stopped and tightened. I'm hoping a mix of threadlock and carbon paste will do the trick.


renolaw

Feb 27, 12 10:10

Post #7 of 43 (8335 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Duncan74] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'd loctite/carbon paste every bolt on your Argon. I previously had a E114 and had problems with lots of things rattling loose (bars, extensions, front derailleur mount, etc.) even after tightening and just a short ride. Loctite fixed everything, it's a must do on Argons.


undies

Feb 27, 12 13:01

Post #8 of 43 (8282 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

you mean the whole extension and elbow pad support unit moves/rotates inwards and outwards (transverse plane) don't you? yep, i've seen it.
couldn't happen on the 114 as the elbow pads were essentially bolted to the basebar, not to a unit 'supported' by 2 long bolts.
apparently argon have a fix coming out very very soon.
'to give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift'...Pre

(This post was edited by undies on Feb 27, 12 13:02)


Mulen

Mar 2, 12 22:27

Post #9 of 43 (8170 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [undies] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

All E118s have this problem, which seems to worsen the more spacers you put under the bar. We asked A18 and that was the answer we got :(

I have the E118 and "fixed" it by installing a Xlabs Torpedo (between arms bottle mount) which then fixes the bars´horizontal movement. The bars are fixed Alu-to-alu, so you can tighten those screws a lot. I can only come to think as this as a design issue, which to me seems totally weird! Sorry for the bad news. Tom


Duncan74

Mar 2, 12 22:30

Post #10 of 43 (8166 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Mulen] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Mulen wrote:
All E118s have this problem, which seems to worsen the more spacers you put under the bar. We asked A18 and that was the answer we got :(

I have the E118 and "fixed" it by installing a Xlabs Torpedo (between arms bottle mount) which then fixes the bars´horizontal movement. The bars are fixed Alu-to-alu, so you can tighten those screws a lot. I can only come to think as this as a design issue, which to me seems totally weird! Sorry for the bad news. Tom

Someone posted the recall notice yesterday applicable to the NZ/Aus market for this very issue.


gabbiev

Mar 3, 12 4:19

Post #11 of 43 (8104 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Duncan74] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Duncan74 wrote:
Mulen wrote:
All E118s have this problem, which seems to worsen the more spacers you put under the bar. We asked A18 and that was the answer we got :(

I have the E118 and "fixed" it by installing a Xlabs Torpedo (between arms bottle mount) which then fixes the bars´horizontal movement. The bars are fixed Alu-to-alu, so you can tighten those screws a lot. I can only come to think as this as a design issue, which to me seems totally weird! Sorry for the bad news. Tom


Someone posted the recall notice yesterday applicable to the NZ/Aus market for this very issue.

Naw, different issue altogether. The recall has to do with the two cosmetic covers that are adhered to either side of the space stem. This is a three minute repair, assuming that you're interrupted by your five year old daughter who wants to help....


Jeff_Argon18

Mar 3, 12 18:15

Post #12 of 43 (8042 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Mulen] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hola Mulen,

If you are saying excessive lateral flex with max spacers, we are working on an accessory computer mount. This will act as a brace and stabilize the bars. We are awaiting production to be ready and will likely ship to our distributors in 30-45 days.

Note though that the flex is perceived more when the bike is not with rider in motion where it takes very little force to turn the wheel.

If it is another isue, message me but I am travelling to Taipei tomorrow so will check in early next week.

If anyone else has a question please go ahead but try to be as specific as possible in your description.
Optimal Balance makes the world go 'round!


Jeff_Argon18

Mar 3, 12 18:23

Post #13 of 43 (8037 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Privyet,
If you are saying extension bars are loose/can't be tightened, you may have received bars that should be replced under warranty. Depending on how certain early production bars are cut have an area that was not reinforced enough.

Please contact your retailer for replacement. If it is easier, message me and I will get it followed up for you.

Note that you can always go to our website for info and email us with any product questions at http://www.argon18bike.com.
Optimal Balance makes the world go 'round!


Jeff_Argon18

Mar 3, 12 18:31

Post #14 of 43 (8030 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [gabbiev] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

gabbiev wrote:
SU-27 wrote:
Extensions. It fixed by two screws each and it is not enough. At least in my case? Let me know if you have same probs when you get to this stage of your bike building. Will try to post fotos.


I did a couple of things--first, I made sure that I used the silver shim that sits inside of the extension's socket, beneath the aerobar extension, so that the set screw pushes up against it, and not the aerobar. Cover the end of the bar that goes into the socket with carbon paste; I used normal toothpaste (seriously) as simple replacement for the carbon paste in this application. Finally note that the e118's extensions require a wider diameter extension than what is used by Hed, Zipp, Profile, and others--there are only a limited number of aftermarket extensions that will work easily with the Argon bars.

As I don't need the height adjustment that the Argon bars offer, I ended up swapping in a set of Vison's integrated bars. I didn't have a problem with the bars moving, though, when I originally configure the bike with Argon's.

You are a 'vrai patenteur' as we would say in Québec! ...good thing

Guys, we post our Assembly Guide on our website, we have made some modifications to stem bolt torques (top 6, bottom 8), changed bolts and the new spacer fix so make sure you are using the latest reference matierial.

Use of carbon paste is a must with all carbon on carbon components....but you guys don't need anyone telling you that!
Optimal Balance makes the world go 'round!


SU-27

Mar 4, 12 23:54

Post #15 of 43 (7943 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Jeff_Argon18] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

  

You are a 'vrai patenteur' as we would say in Québec! ...good thing

Guys, we post our Assembly Guide on our website, we have made some modifications to stem bolt torques (top 6, bottom 8), changed bolts and the new spacer fix so make sure you are using the latest reference matierial.

Could you give me the link. Cos on homepage of Argon nothing changed in Assemble guide . Sorry, missed, you mentioned stem bolt torques.


(This post was edited by SU-27 on Mar 4, 12 23:59)


SU-27

Mar 5, 12 0:23

Post #16 of 43 (7936 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Jeff_Argon18] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I m waiting for the new redesigned set of brackets wich argon presents in Taipei this time. Hope this will solve the problem. Dealer which sold me the bike promised to send it to me shortly.
Did not use this bike in Adu Dhabi unfortunately .


PINGBEN

Mar 14, 12 15:32

Post #17 of 43 (7760 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I face the same problem. The aerobars are moving ( horizontal). And the Argon local assistance is claiming it is normal !!

I wrote to Argon Canada and expect that they will react !!


SU-27

Mar 15, 12 1:12

Post #18 of 43 (7696 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [PINGBEN] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I ve sent the request to Head office of Argon Canada three weeks ago, but have no reply yet.
The dealer which sold me the bike reacted very fast, expect to have the set to solve the problem in 5-7 days. Will check how it works then post description .
But in general, I think it is not fair from Argon side. This is one of the most expensive bike on the market ( I paid 11k usd with Zipp 808 and DI2 dura ace) and having this problem just damaging Argons reputation.
In Reply To:


Maca944

Mar 15, 12 3:21

Post #19 of 43 (7657 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [SU-27] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm within a couple of days of ordering an E 118, but would really appreciate some positive feedback first from buyers who have this aerobar issue solved. On a bike this expensive I don't want to fiddle around myself, it ought to be perfect when I buy it.


gabbiev

Mar 15, 12 8:24

Post #20 of 43 (7616 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Maca944] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Maca944 wrote:
I'm within a couple of days of ordering an E 118, but would really appreciate some positive feedback first from buyers who have this aerobar issue solved. On a bike this expensive I don't want to fiddle around myself, it ought to be perfect when I buy it.

Honestly, I haven't had issues with the stock Argon bars. Pull the cosmetic covers off of the stem spacer, and make sure that you use both the included shims and carbon paste when installing the aerobar extensions. The carbon paste is good practice with any extension; the cosmetic spacer covers are no big deal; a whole lot less problems building this bike that I've had with similar price point offerings from other manufacturers. I'll post a photo of my build tomorrow.


PINGBEN

Mar 15, 12 13:56

Post #21 of 43 (7572 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [gabbiev] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

To be honest, there is a problem with the aerobars. The erection of the bike has been checked and approved by Argon local assistance but the aeorobars are moving. The Argon local assistance told to my bike retailer that the movement was normal !!

I can accept that Argon has a problem with the aerobars and that they need to change some parts but, I am upset that they ignore the problem.

( the cosmetic spacer cover recall is not linked to my problem and is not a big deal).

Argon solves this issue or, I send the bike back....


undies

Mar 15, 12 13:59

Post #22 of 43 (7564 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [gabbiev] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

the problem isn't with the stem (other than the recall on the spacer!!), but with the extension fitting, (with the 2 vertical bolts per side). With any riser spacers it is impossible to stop the extension fitting rotating left/right, so bar ends move together and apart!
'to give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift'...Pre


PINGBEN

Mar 16, 12 15:08

Post #23 of 43 (7498 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [undies] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

undies wrote:
the problem isn't with the stem (other than the recall on the spacer!!), but with the extension fitting, (with the 2 vertical bolts per side). With any riser spacers it is impossible to stop the extension fitting rotating left/right, so bar ends move together and apart!

I agree the design with 2 vertical bolts (aligned with the extension fitting) is too weak. A design with 3 bolts in triangle would have been safer ( but then there would have been very little side adjustements possibilities).
I am not confortable with the aerobars even without riser spacer.

Today, ESM ( the Importer for Argon in France) had accepted that there is a problem. They mentionned that they ( Argon18) are working to design a new piece that would improve the system. A part will improve the system.

They also mentionned that we perceive a high flex in the aerobar when we are static and that it is not that bad when we are on the bike.
[ I will reply to them - in curve , it is unconfortable!!]


Jeff_Argon18

Mar 19, 12 12:09

Post #24 of 43 (7372 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [PINGBEN] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

PINGBEN wrote:
undies wrote:
the problem isn't with the stem (other than the recall on the spacer!!), but with the extension fitting, (with the 2 vertical bolts per side). With any riser spacers it is impossible to stop the extension fitting rotating left/right, so bar ends move together and apart!


I agree the design with 2 vertical bolts (aligned with the extension fitting) is too weak. A design with 3 bolts in triangle would have been safer ( but then there would have been very little side adjustements possibilities).
I am not confortable with the aerobars even without riser spacer.

Today, ESM ( the Importer for Argon in France) had accepted that there is a problem. They mentionned that they ( Argon18) are working to design a new piece that would improve the system. A part will improve the system.

They also mentionned that we perceive a high flex in the aerobar when we are static and that it is not that bad when we are on the bike.
[ I will reply to them - in curve , it is unconfortable!!]

Re: East-West movement of extension bars some of you may be experiencing at raised position:

We are in the midst of producing a computer mount that will be shipped to all our distributors/dealers world-wide in the coming weeks. This will not only be a good accessory for your computer set-up but also serve as a bridge between the bars as it is designed by Argon 18 specifically for our configuration.

We do want to maintain as much adjustability as possible and this is a common issue with spacers installed however it is much more noticeable when the bike is stationary without a rider in motion. It takes very little force to turn the wheel in motion. That said we are providing a solution for this, it is coming soon, we will advise our retailers as to shipping timing in the coming weeks. It should be available at your LBS in May however we are working to get it done sooner.
Optimal Balance makes the world go 'round!


regnihe

Mar 19, 12 13:54

Post #25 of 43 (7334 views)
Re: Argon 18 E 118 (2012) aerobars problem [Jeff_Argon18] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Jeff;

Do you have a drawing or rendering of the new solution? Will it interfere with hydration systems that are mounted between the aero extensions?

Don

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