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Venge more aero than an s5?
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duncan
Jan 27, 12 12:20
Post #126 of 165
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Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Ex-cyclist]
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I meant on the tops. (Just not quite with it today.)
duncan
Jan 27, 12 12:25
Post #127 of 165
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Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Ex-cyclist]
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It also seemed to me that some jerseys became tighter and more sophisticated in 2011 (e.g. Leopard Trek). Even so, until I see Cancellara sporting something like this in Paris Roubaix...
T-TownRocks
Jan 27, 12 12:26
Post #128 of 165
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Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [duncan]
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Local shop just got in a few venges and the head mechanic got a limited edition flat black with green logos like Cav rode in the tour. The mechanic has been a loyal derosa fan for years and swears the Venge is the best bike ever. I can't wait for them to get a demo that I can try. You can read all the reviews and forums you want but there is no substitute for a live test ride. Everyone body and riding style is different - that's why so many choices..
jackmott
Jan 27, 12 12:31
Post #129 of 165
(2595 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [duncan]
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well the current world champ was sporting something like that, but this has already been discounted =)
duncan wrote:
It also seemed to me that some jerseys became tighter and more sophisticated in 2011 (e.g. Leopard Trek). Even so, until I see Cancellara sporting something like this in Paris Roubaix...
Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Epic-o
Jan 27, 12 12:43
Post #130 of 165
(2581 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [damon_rinard]
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damon_rinard wrote:
DZ's fixed legs are in the position that matches the same average drag as pedaling legs.
Hi Damon,
I suppose that the position that matches the same average drag depends of the yaw angle, which angle did you choose as representative? I have been searching for data about this but I have only found Mark Cote's data but it was limited to 0 yaw
http://www.hupi.org/HPeJ/0014/0014.html
BICYCLE DESIGN AND +
http://cds-0.blogspot.com/
damon_rinard
Jan 27, 12 13:52
Post #131 of 165
(2541 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Carl Spackler]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Right. Gilbert seemed to do ok without an aero frame.
Hi Carl,
If you're talking about Phil Gilbert, he rode a Canyone Aeroad last year.
Edited to add: Tom beat me to it.
Cheers,
===========
Damon Rinard, Senior Advanced R&D Engineer
Vroomen.White.Design
http://www.cervelo.com
http://www.bbright.net
(This post was
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by damon_rinard on Jan 27, 12 13:58)
trail
Jan 27, 12 14:02
Post #132 of 165
(2524 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [duncan]
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>particularly in the situations that often count, such as uphill grades.
Wouldn't aero road frames be least useful on uphill grades? It's not power output that matters, but effective wind speed.
jackmott
Jan 27, 12 14:10
Post #133 of 165
(2510 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [trail]
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trail wrote:
>particularly in the situations that often count, such as uphill grades.
Wouldn't aero road frames be least useful on uphill grades? It's not power output that matters, but effective wind speed.
50g of drag reduction,on a 10% grade,350 watt, 75kg rider is about 5 seconds per 40k time savings
would be more for a pro-tour rider up around 400 watts
Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
(This post was
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by jackmott on Jan 27, 12 14:11)
trail
Jan 27, 12 14:20
Post #134 of 165
(2495 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [jackmott]
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>50g of drag reduction,on a 10% grade,350 watt, 75kg rider is about 5 seconds per 40k time savings
I didn't say "not useful" I said "least useful."
Your 40 MPH sprint or 30MPH solo attack would be the most useful.
Grinding uphill at 15MPH on a beyond-category, not so much.
The "2" on the V^2 term is a big freakin' deal.
styrrell
Jan 27, 12 14:27
Post #135 of 165
(2481 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [damon_rinard]
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Isn't that the same aeroroad that most all the aero weenies laughed at when it was released? I like aero road bikes for some applications, but cannondale also calls the Evo aero, but i don't know that I would credit its aeroness with a win.
Styrrell
SavageHouck
Jan 27, 12 15:19
Post #136 of 165
(2461 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [styrrell]
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COuldn't the EVO actually be pretty aero? The tube shapes are certainly not optimized, but isn't it super narrow? There isn't much ever hitting the wind.
styrrell
Jan 27, 12 15:28
Post #137 of 165
(2450 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [SavageHouck]
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I don't doubt that its aero compared to other Cannondales, but compared to aero frames from the last 3 years or so I'd be shocked. And thats the thing, if a small diameter round tubed bike is "pretty aero" why not just go back to tigged steels bikes? They really do ride well and are cheap.
Styrrell
Tom A.
Jan 27, 12 15:37
Post #138 of 165
(2438 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [styrrell]
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styrrell wrote:
I don't doubt that its aero compared to other Cannondales, but compared to aero frames from the last 3 years or so I'd be shocked. And thats the thing, if a small diameter round tubed bike is "pretty aero" why not just go back to tigged steels bikes? They really do ride well and are cheap.
Here's the key reason why not (which is some basic aerodynamics that apparently many tend to forget). For equal frontal areas, a round tube has 5X the drag of a "streamlined" shape:
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Tom A.
Jan 27, 12 15:45
Post #139 of 165
(2429 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [KEAU]
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KEAU wrote:
doo-dads= Heres 4 of them. Would Goss not shuttin the door be considered a doo-dad?
Yeah...and I see 4 dudes wearing "road skinsuits", shoe covers, covered helmets, and deep wheels. Hmmm...and so your point was?
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
PhilDBasket
Jan 27, 12 16:08
Post #140 of 165
(2394 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Tom A.]
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Tom A. wrote:
Here's the key reason why not (which is some basic aerodynamics that apparently many tend to forget). For equal frontal areas, a round tube has 5X the drag of a "streamlined" shape:
Not sure I follow. Wouldn't it be 10x for equal R values: 1.2/0.12?
Tom A.
Jan 27, 12 16:16
Post #141 of 165
(2385 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [PhilDBasket]
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PhilDBasket wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Here's the key reason why not (which is some basic aerodynamics that apparently many tend to forget). For equal frontal areas, a round tube has 5X the drag of a "streamlined" shape:
Not sure I follow. Wouldn't it be 10x for equal R values: 1.2/0.12?
No. Look at the 3rd and last figures. You want to compare an airfoil of the same thickness "d" as the cylinder diameter.
edit: Doh! Now I see what you're getting at...Yes.
I
was looking at the wrong plot.
10X it is then! BTW, IIRC that Re (1x10^5) is about right for typical bike frame sections at "race speed"...
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
(This post was
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by Tom A. on Jan 27, 12 16:26)
BMANX
Jan 27, 12 16:22
Post #142 of 165
(2376 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [trail]
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If you can only have a bike as light as 6.8kg then you might as well have the most aero 6.8kg bike that you can get. It will be faster (hills and flats) even if only by 1 second.
Sorry for UCI events.
For us mortals, I want the lightest aero bike I can have and it will be less than 6.8kg
AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT
Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.
(This post was
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Carl Spackler
Jan 27, 12 16:30
Post #143 of 165
(2362 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [duncan]
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And where was Cav's aero advantage in this tight finish ;) ?
Thank you.
Btw, I think the Champs finish with that camera angle is one of the coolest images in all of cycling.
__________________________________________________
Carl Spackler
Jan 27, 12 16:39
Post #144 of 165
(2350 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [damon_rinard]
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Right, my bad.
__________________________________________________
jackmott
Jan 27, 12 18:18
Post #145 of 165
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Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Carl Spackler]
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I am sad that you are not cat1 at the internet, I'm pretty sure you are intending to post cool videos.
Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Carl Spackler
Jan 27, 12 18:27
Post #146 of 165
(2271 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [jackmott]
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I'm a Internets Cat 6.
This is the one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCUD0CPKJSM
Good comparison of aero vs non-aero frames here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-PcVbeGdI
__________________________________________________
jackmott
Jan 27, 12 18:30
Post #147 of 165
(2266 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [Carl Spackler]
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one thing notable in both those videos is how Mark's position at full sprint is better than Tom's TT position!
I wonder if it would even matter though, he is so much stronger.
Carl Spackler wrote:
I'm a Internets Cat 6.
This is the one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCUD0CPKJSM
Good comparison of aero vs non-aero frames here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-PcVbeGdI
Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Carl Spackler
Jan 27, 12 18:37
Post #148 of 165
(2257 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [jackmott]
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No question. He also has wicked leg speed from his BMX/track days.
__________________________________________________
tetonrider
Jan 27, 12 19:09
Post #149 of 165
(2238 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [officespaced]
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officespaced wrote:
I have the Venge and my understanding was the frame shape is the same between the McLaren and the other Venge frames. The difference is in the carbon layup which is what McLaren provided their expertise in optimizing to make it lighter and maintaining stiffness. The parts included on the two models will drasticly affect the aerodynamics such as the 404 carbon clinchers vs the Roval wheels on the pro.
there's a thread over on weight weenies where someone FINALLY weighed a mclaren (production) frame set.
an apples-to-apples comparison vs my plain-old s-works venge showed that my s-works is 44g LIGHTER than the mclaren. i'm not arguing whether 44g is significant or not, but the point is that the mclaren was to be 100g lighter than the s-works, and 100g would have been about 10% of the frame weight.
turbocarr
Jan 27, 12 22:22
Post #150 of 165
(2172 views)
Re: Venge more aero than an s5? [asad137]
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Where did this drag chart come from?
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The New Specialized Wind Tunnel
Will this be a game changer for Specialized, in both sales and product design, or will it not move the sales and design needle versus those in Specialized's competitive set?
Yes, Game Changer
Minor move forward
Won't budge the needle
