P5 spy shot (Page 24): Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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P5 spy shot

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Tom A.

Jan 17, 12 18:14

Post #576 of 694 (3372 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [dave_w] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dave_w wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

The point is, I was responding to an assertion that hydraulic tubing can't be routed much differently than traditional cabling, which isn't necessarily true. Just look at a "banjo fitting" at the end of a hydraulic line. Are you going to be able to make a cable do a 90 deg turn like that in the same space? I don't think so...

close, with a "travel agent" or Avid's roll-a-ma-jighttp://www.universalcycles.com/...61&category=1613

Yes, I'm intimately familiar with the travel agents from my Proflex MTB. Sorry...not even close ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

(This post was edited by Tom A. on Jan 17, 12 18:14)

yme

Jan 17, 12 18:20

Post #577 of 694 (3346 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Tom A.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tom, come on, get real, you know that tubing is reqiured to get there. Do you really think they cross drilled the whole frame.

Tom A. wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

CruseVegas wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Quote:

You are limiting yourself by thinking of a hydraulic run only being accomplished in tubing...

I've operated a lot of hydraulic heavy machinery. Other than filling an entire frame tube (which is certainly possible, but not so light), there is flexible tubing and rigid tubing. Are there other realistic options? If yes, what are they?

I believe the flexible "tubing" is called hydraulic hose.

Yes, good point, that is what it is correctly called. But, short of filling a whole frame element with hydraulic fluid, other than a small "tube" (rigid, flexible, whatever) how else do you move fluid? If there is another practical way to transmit hydraulic pressure on a bike, I'd be interested to hear it.

Any sort of passageway is fine. Have you ever looked at the valve body of an automatic transmission? ;-) (slightly off-topic...I LOVE how non-electronically controlled automatic transmissions are designed. Fluid logic, baby!)

The point is, I was responding to an assertion that hydraulic tubing can't be routed much differently than traditional cabling, which isn't necessarily true. Just look at a "banjo fitting" at the end of a hydraulic line. Are you going to be able to make a cable do a 90 deg turn like that in the same space? I don't think so...

(This post was edited by yme on Jan 17, 12 18:21)

10-4

Jan 17, 12 18:24

Post #578 of 694 (3323 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [dave_w] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dave_w wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

close, with a "travel agent" or Avid's roll-a-ma-jig

http://www.universalcycles.com/...61&category=1613

Not close at all. A banjo fitting on a mountain disc brake makes a 90* turn in about 2mm.

ericM40-44

Jan 17, 12 18:28

Post #579 of 694 (3305 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [DarkSpeedWorks] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

for the love of science it's not about the stopping power it's about the brake lines you can run and the aerodynamics you can get with a brake freed up from the mechanical cable construct.

BMANX

Jan 17, 12 18:29

Post #580 of 694 (3302 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Tom A.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Or you could take it even one more step and use them for shifting (yes I know there is already a system out there) which would end the stupid loop that you need for the rear derailleur and make it even more aero. You could run all of the lines internal and just exit right at the RD and FD with no exposed cables. I am actually surprised that Shimano Di2 does not use a 90 degree connector to eliminate the loop and have it tight to the chainstays.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

ericM40-44

Jan 17, 12 18:32

Post #581 of 694 (3284 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Jack, please please please stop using 50 grams of drag, etc. to explain this.

100 watts = 10 watts = 1 second/km = so much easier to understand.

Ex-cyclist

Jan 17, 12 18:32

Post #582 of 694 (3281 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [BMANX] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BMANX wrote:

I am actually surprised that Shimano Di2 does not use a 90 degree connector to eliminate the loop and have it tight to the chainstays.

I think this has been discussed quite a bit when it first came out. The consensus is that they wanted it to "look" right. Same reasoning behind two buttons on the front shifter. Only one is really needed there.

My Blog: Life On and Off the Rivet
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bobby11

Jan 17, 12 18:34

Post #583 of 694 (3273 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [BMANX] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

All3sports.com is advertising the tri frameset at $4,495 and available in March! Can't tell you what all that includes. Presumably NOT the group. Brakes? Who knows.

BMANX

Jan 17, 12 18:41

Post #584 of 694 (3240 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Ex-cyclist] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I love that they did it for looks. Maybe they will do better next time.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

CruseVegas

Jan 17, 12 18:42

Post #585 of 694 (3228 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [dave_w] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dave_w wrote:

What would make hydraulic brakes a leap, is if they incorporate ABS. Excellent braking, and idiot proof (lots of triathletes seem to be idiots as far as mechanics and handling/braking skills). I doubt this is part of the new Magura offering, but with electrics now onboard bicycles, this is a future possibility...no I'm not kidding.

Dave, I was wondering if it's a possibility that they could be electric over hydraulic either wired or wireless. Having the electric switch in the brake levers and an electric operated hydraulic cylinder in the head tube connected to the slave cylinder/caliper?
************************

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Grant.Reuter

Jan 17, 12 18:42

Post #586 of 694 (3223 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [bobby11] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

bobby11 wrote:

All3sports.com is advertising the tri frameset at $4,495 and available in March! Can't tell you what all that includes. Presumably NOT the group. Brakes? Who knows.

I would say with bars and brakes. Which would be about right. If it doesnt it would be way more then what they were acting like it was gonna be.
-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

BMANX

Jan 17, 12 18:44

Post #587 of 694 (3209 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [CruseVegas] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You should be able to. We do this at work with pnuematics. Why would it not work with hydraulics.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

Grant.Reuter

Jan 17, 12 18:49

Post #588 of 694 (3175 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [ericM35-39] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

ericM35-39 wrote:

Jack, please please please stop using 50 grams of drag, etc. to explain this.

100 watts = 10 watts = 1 second/km = so much easier to understand.

Well hell now I'm more confused with 100 watts equalling 10 watts
-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

CruseVegas

Jan 17, 12 18:51

Post #589 of 694 (3163 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [BMANX] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BMANX wrote:

You should be able to. We do this at work with pnuematics. Why would it not work with hydraulics.

It would be pretty sweet if they did, the two things that I think go against that are 1. cost and 2. the pic that looked like the brake levers and the calipers were connected by a hydraulic line/hose.
************************

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

ericM40-44

Jan 17, 12 18:55

Post #590 of 694 (3139 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Grant.Reuter] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Ughh, grams

gtingley

Jan 17, 12 18:56

Post #591 of 694 (3133 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Grant.Reuter] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Quote:

I would say with bars and brakes. Which would be about right. If it doesnt it would be way more then what they were acting like it was gonna be.

I would expect it to fall withing a range of

$5400 http://www.trekbikes.com/...ncept_9_9_frameset/#

to

$6100 http://www.specialized.com/...1101&scname=Road

Gary Tingley, M.S., USA Cycling Level 2 / Certified Power-based Training Coach
http://garytingley.com | Wattage training for Road, Criterium, Time Trial

BMANX

Jan 17, 12 18:56

Post #592 of 694 (3131 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [CruseVegas] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I know that the pnuematic version to do this is not very expensive, I am not sure about hydraulic versions. So costs might not be as bad as you think.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

dave_w

Jan 17, 12 19:07

Post #593 of 694 (3072 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [10-4] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks, I'm familiar with hydraulic fittings, have several different brands of hyd discs, and owned Magura rim brakes back when they were around.

mojozenmaster

Jan 17, 12 19:15

Post #594 of 694 (3025 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [bjorn] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The P5 is the first bike that I have seen in the 6 years since my P3C purchase that makes me want to stop wasting money on bitches and save my money for a new bicycle.

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

dave_w

Jan 17, 12 19:15

Post #595 of 694 (3027 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [CruseVegas] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

CruseVegas wrote:

dave_w wrote:

Yeah, the "fly by wire" concept, and coupled with Di2, could get rid of cabling all-together. Clean, but I doubt we're making that much of a leap here.

JPDMD25

Jan 17, 12 19:20

Post #596 of 694 (2989 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [Mojozenmaster] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

X2....Best comment I've read thus far
__________________________
Eleonore Rocks Triathlon Team http://www.eleonorerocks.org

mfrassica

Jan 17, 12 19:27

Post #597 of 694 (2940 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks for the links, I've gone through the first two papers. Interesting.

bobby11

Jan 17, 12 19:28

Post #598 of 694 (2934 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [gregn] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Well the current record appears to be held by a thread affectionately known as the Official Speed Concept Repair Manual which is nearing half a million views and has over 3800 replies to date.

CLASSIC! Goes directly to why I'm following the P5 intro with such interest.

10-4

Jan 17, 12 19:29

Post #599 of 694 (2928 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [dave_w] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dave_w wrote:

Thanks, I'm familiar with hydraulic fittings, have several different brands of hyd discs, and owned Magura rim brakes back when they were around.

If you're familiar with banjo fittings you know that the Avid Roll-a-ma-jig doesn't make a 90* nearly as tight as the banjo, then. Not even close. The 90* turn with the Roll-a-ma-jig is what, 14-16mm or so vs 2-4mm for a banjo bolt. Not to mention the 90* bend on these brakes is behind the brake rather than hanging off the side....

Side note that not a ton of people know, but Magura still makes a ton of the hydro mtb rim brakes. I thought that was pretty cool that you could order a new set today.

chaparral

Jan 17, 12 19:32

Post #600 of 694 (2905 views)

Re: P5 spy shot [CruseVegas] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

CruseVegas wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Quote:

You are limiting yourself by thinking of a hydraulic run only being accomplished in tubing...

I believe the flexible "tubing" is called hydraulic hose.

Actually, there is "flex tubing". It is special titanium tubing that is designed for a limited amount range of motion. Generally though tubing refers to a rigid line. Hoses can be used for installations that require a larger range of motion. If you need to route the tubing around a point that will pivot, a banjo or swivel will be used.

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