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St. Croix - wheels and tires

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highflyer

Oct 19, 11 7:33

Post #1 of 26 (2511 views)

St. Croix - wheels and tires	Quote \| Reply

I have searched this here.

With the St. Croix winds - 404 or 808 front? are discs allowed?

With the really rough road surface - are latex tubulars out?

Thanks!

Mack Truck

Oct 19, 11 10:18

Post #2 of 26 (2468 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I ran a 404/disk last year and wasn't too bad. I think I only saw one other disk at the race.

highflyer

Oct 19, 11 10:46

Post #3 of 26 (2453 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [Mack Truck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Mack Truck wrote:

I ran a 404/disk last year and wasn't too bad. I think I only saw one other disk at the race.

Are the winds too sketchy to run an 808 in the front?

What tires did you run?

Mack Truck

Oct 19, 11 10:54

Post #4 of 26 (2448 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I was fine with bontrager race X-lites and gonna use 808's next year. I also weigh over 185 though.

labala

Oct 21, 11 13:24

Post #5 of 26 (2366 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [Mack Truck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

If i had a choice i would use 404 and 808.
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TriChris14

Oct 22, 11 9:39

Post #6 of 26 (2289 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I don't think discs are allowed, and you will regret it if you do. The roads are rough and course. Had latex tubies years ago, and didn't like them cus they were too porous (lose 25-40psi in about 5 hrs). Used them on garbage roads, never flatted, but, St. Croix roads might be even extra garbage than the roads I road the tubies on. As for a puncture, I was under the impression that both latex and butyl don't have too much difference in terms of puncture resistance. I have heard arguements for both. If I were you I would go with a tire that has proven well under garbage road conditions.

As for front, I am 135 lbs and would do 404. If you are really interested in what people have used, look at some pictures of the pros on asiorders. Keep in mind a lot of the winds are cross winds as you will be riding along the coast. Also, you will be riding on the opposite side of the road if you are from USA.

eganski

Oct 22, 11 11:21

Post #7 of 26 (2267 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

How much do you weigh?

I used 808/Disc with Tangente Tubular tires. Worked fine for me, but I'm a bit heavier (175lbs) and the roads are a bit rough for the little guys.
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jackmott

Oct 22, 11 11:23

Post #8 of 26 (2266 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

latex tubies would make the rough roads less rough.

i would encourage their use.

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highflyer

Oct 23, 11 5:35

Post #9 of 26 (2229 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [eganski] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

eganski wrote:

How much do you weigh?

I used 808/Disc with Tangente Tubular tires. Worked fine for me, but I'm a bit heavier (175lbs) and the roads are a bit rough for the little guys.

I race at 112lbs/50kg. I have had good luck racing with a disc on hilly courses so will probably stick with that.

As to the front wheel, for Kona/IMSG in super gusty winds a 404 works best for me. Winds were fairly strong at Oceanside 2010, I was fine with an 808 front there, but not sure how the St. Croix winds compare to those courses? Any ideas?

As to the tires, did you put any Stans in those Tangente's?

When you arrived race week, did you do your pre-race rides on the Tangente's you were racing on? I always worry about getting a nick/cut in the tire while training race week on the course. This happened in Kona and 2 hours before bike check closed (with a Tangente with Stans) and I was at the bike shop getting a new tire put on.

Thanks!

phil combs

Oct 23, 11 9:32

Post #10 of 26 (2209 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have a really, really strong opinion on this one.

Rear: Disc if you have it. There are numerous threads on ST explaining the myth that a disc on the rear will be a problem.

Front: Do not go deeper than the 404 UNLESS you are very experienced with riding in coastal conditions and know it won't be a problem. I did St. Croix last year and got absolutely murdered by the fact that I rode my 90mm front. (I weigh 70kgs and live in an area that has very little wind and the only race wheel I have is 90mm.) I got blown around so much with the cross-winds that I was constantly out of the aero position--it really screwed me up and led to a bike split that was far below my fitness. I don't care what anyone else says on this whole frigging thread--do not ride the 808 unless you personally have a lot of experience riding it on the coast and have had no problems.

Road surface: I did not think it was as bad as everyone said it would be.

FYI, the Beast: Not as hard as I thought it would be.

Phil

(This post was edited by phil combs on Oct 23, 11 9:33)

highflyer

Oct 23, 11 11:10

Post #11 of 26 (2190 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [phil combs] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

phil combs wrote:

eganski

Oct 23, 11 11:46

Post #12 of 26 (2185 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

112? I loved grade school ;^)

I was able to pack my training wheels in my bike box because I didn't want to pre-ride the course on my race wheels.

I raced with an 808 and didn't find the winds an issue, but at 112 el beez, I'd go shallow if I were you. You've raced Kona, so you have experience-rely on and trust that experience. This course is so difficult that it's really about who slows down the least, not who makes the best equipment choices. It's the most honest race I've ever done-the strongest always win.

It's worth riding the first 20 miles/Beast-I found the beast lived up to it's reputation, and then some. But the last 20 miles are incredibly difficult.

Just writing about it makes me want to go back-maybe I will! Either way, good luck.
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cat

Apr 23, 12 13:01

Post #13 of 26 (1695 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [eganski] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

i was wondering what you guys thought was better-23mm 404 clinchers or 21mm 404/808 tubular? since its chip sealed and windy, i was thinking the 23mm clinchers... ideas?

phil combs

Apr 23, 12 13:08

Post #14 of 26 (1689 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] (Deleted by phil combs) [In reply to]

JimmyRiccitello

Apr 23, 12 14:57

Post #15 of 26 (1654 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

When I was young and in shape, I used to ride fast there.

Last year the fastest pro male averaged 23.5mph. Fastest pro female (Angela Naeth - who is super fast) averaged 21.8mph.

For St. Croix, weight is more of a consideration than aero.

For the front - Go for lightness vs aero, or light and aero - if you can afford it. A HED Stinger 3 (clincher) would be my choice. If using a wide rim (23mm) such as found on HED wheels and most others, now - use a 23mm tire and 80psi for your weight.

Unless you have the lightest disc available and are going to have the fastest male bike split - a disc is too heavy. For the rear I would use nothing deeper than 50mm, and would select 30mm for myself - also 23mm clincher tire and 80-85 psi.

Take full advantage of your power/weight!
Jimmy
http://www.Riccitello.com

MTL

Apr 23, 12 15:19

Post #16 of 26 (1631 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [JimmyRiccitello] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

JimmyRiccitello wrote:

When I was young and in shape, I used to ride fast there.

Last year the fastest pro male averaged 23.5mph. Fastest pro female (Angela Naeth - who is super fast) averaged 21.8mph.

For St. Croix, weight is more of a consideration than aero.

For the front - Go for lightness vs aero, or light and aero - if you can afford it. A HED Stinger 3 (clincher) would be my choice. If using a wide rim (23mm) such as found on HED wheels and most others, now - use a 23mm tire and 80psi for your weight.

Unless you have the lightest disc available and are going to have the fastest male bike split - a disc is too heavy. For the rear I would use nothing deeper than 50mm, and would select 30mm for myself - also 23mm clincher tire and 80-85 psi.

Take full advantage of your power/weight!

Jimmy,

Why would you ride this low psi on this particular course? More tire/road surface? Better control on the bike due to crosswinds? Possibility of early morning showers? Rough road surface? Is low psi = faster climbing the "Beast" and the rest of the hills?

Thanks.

JimmyRiccitello

Apr 23, 12 16:10

Post #17 of 26 (1605 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [MTL] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The wider rims (compared to my era) being used these days allow more air volume and therefore lower psi and therefore better traction on bumpy roads and a more comfortable ride (helpful in St. Croix) - AND less chance of pinch flats (due to more air volume) even with lower psi.

I weigh 140lbs and never ride >85psi (82psi most typically) anymore. And based on my own roll-down field tests on Mt. Lemmon - have less rolling resistance compared to my narrower rims and 110psi.

So better traction, more comfy ride, better rolling resistance, faster ride - up and down and flat.

For people 140lbs and under, using 23mm rims (and tires), I'd recommend 85psi on any road.

This person weighs a buck-12. 80psi is plenty, but 85psi will work (depending on the wheel/tire choice).
Jimmy
http://www.Riccitello.com

IronDoc947

Apr 23, 12 16:21

Post #18 of 26 (1595 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [JimmyRiccitello] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Jimmy, thanks for your input. How high PSI would you go for a larger (e.g. 180 pounds) if using 23mm? I have always used 21mm at 110 PSI for racing, but switching to 23mm for St Croix. I am a strong cyclist and used to hills, but not rough roads.

Thanks

devashish_paul

Apr 23, 12 18:04

Post #19 of 26 (1548 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [JimmyRiccitello] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Alex/MTL....looks like we got our marching orders from Jimmy! I was actually trying to decide how many Psi and was thinking 90-100 psi, but now Jimmy says that is waaaay high for our weight!!!

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gabyraff

Apr 23, 12 18:13

Post #20 of 26 (1538 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [highflyer] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I raced twice there 2009/2011, I think the best option is 808 rear-404front! Go light, it has some steep climbs, wind is not a real factor there! Also go with a 25 or 27!

cat

Apr 23, 12 19:08

Post #21 of 26 (1516 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [gabyraff] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

please excuse my lack of knowledge but should small riders -sub 115lbs.-go with narrower wheels 21mm or wider wheels;23mm?

JimmyRiccitello

Apr 23, 12 19:25

Post #22 of 26 (1509 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [IronDoc959] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

IronDoc959,

It depends. The width of the rim needs to be considered along with the width of the tire.

For your weight I would recommend 110-120psi if you have a "narrow" rim and 23mm tires. I would recommend 95psi if you have a wide rim, such as you'd find on the HED clincher rims, and a 23mm tire.

A guy I was helping in Kona a few years back used 95psi in HED Jet 6 (C2 rim) and he weighed 95kgs (~210lbs). He had the fastest men's (duh) bike split (13th overall - 1st in the Clydesdale Division). At his weight, he was very hesitant to use clinchers (pinch flat fear), let alone 95psi. But as stated earlier - it all worked out fine: no flats and fast riding.

My two cents.
Jimmy
http://www.Riccitello.com

devashish_paul

Apr 24, 12 5:19

Post #23 of 26 (1438 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [JimmyRiccitello] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Jimmy....on a standard 808 tubular rim, how many psi should I go with @ 138 lbs? 90?

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JimmyRiccitello

Apr 24, 12 10:52

Post #24 of 26 (1388 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Dev,

I used to race on Continental Sprinters or Competition GPs, 23mm and 90-110psi depending on the roughness of the road and the weather. I used the Contis because the side-wall was less vulnerable. I don't remember ever flatting on a Conti (I can't believe I just said that).

My tubular of choice was the Vittoria Corsa CX (back in the day). Because I felt the tire was more vulnerable to flats (both tread and sidewall), I only used it on clean and relatively smooth surfaces because I was afraid to use "low" pressure due to the perceived increased risk of puncture. I used 110-130psi (depending on road surface and weather) for 23mm Vittoria CX. I used this tire in the draft legal (loop courses and neutral support) races too. I loved the traction (and suspension) that the supple side-wall provided.

With regard to weather and to state the obvious: less psi in the wet and more psi in the dry. With regard to road surface: less psi in the bumpy stuff and more psi when smooth.

Don't tell all these high psi riders.

On a similar note - my mtb friends were shocked the other day at the trail when I mentioned I was running 32psi in a tubless 2.1 tire. At their urging, I tried the loop at 26psi (and could've gone a little lower). Holy Moly, what a difference for the better. Better rolling, better traction in the turns and on the bumpy climbs. In the old days, I would never consider running less than 40psi on a rocky trail. And mtb tires are waaay fatter (and faster) now, than in my era.

My point - road and mtb tires and rims have improved over the years (along with mtb suspension) and lower psi is now possible without the increased puncture risk and with better rolling resistance and better traction. I have not tried tubeless clincher road wheels, but maybe they're the way to go for us small people.
Jimmy
http://www.Riccitello.com

SusanH

Apr 24, 12 14:16

Post #25 of 26 (1326 views)

Re: St. Croix - wheels and tires [JimmyRiccitello] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Jimmy,
What wheels should I use for St.Croix? I am 6 ft tall, blonde and a bit thin, except for my rack. This makes me a tad front heavy and affects bike handling. I like to race in a thong and bikini top so I want my wheels to be fast but have good grip. Road rash makes for terrible tan lines and could jeopardize my modeling career.

And I like all my stuff to match. Does your recommendation come in pink?

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