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Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force

-Mike-

Oct 17, 11 12:30

Post #1 of 20 (1489 views)

Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force	Quote \| Reply

1. Are there definitive shifting differences between Sram red and force? While climbing? Under load? I ask about climbing because i love to climb and am choosing road races with lots of elevation change.

2. Is there a difference between the force and red road shifters or is the RD the most important component? In other words, should i buy a red RD but force shifters to save some money? Or the other way around?

I would appreciate your thoughts, i am focusing on road racing this year and want a groupo that will provide quality shifting, but if i can save some money that is a plus!! I have decided on sram because i have to use a bb30 crankset and i like their prices.

I have been on quite a few different forums and conflicting opinions abound as to if there is a difference or not. I know that the FD of red might be suspect, but overall most people think that force delivers the exact same quality other than the crankset. Would you agree?

(This post was edited by -Mike- on Oct 17, 11 12:32)

Tom Demerly

Oct 17, 11 12:32

Post #2 of 20 (1480 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I've ridden both extensively and am on Force now since I frankly couldn't tell the difference between the two in terms of shift quality.

Tom Demerly
Editor, TriSports University
http://university.trisports.com/

FatandSlow

Oct 17, 11 12:36

Post #3 of 20 (1461 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Like Tom, I can't tell the difference either. But I have had 3 right Force shifter stop working. All replaced by SRAM under warranty. The third one they replaced with Red. No problems since.

fishgo

Oct 17, 11 12:39

Post #4 of 20 (1455 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Same as Tom. Go with all Force -- I'd value it as the sweet spot between price, performance and weight. Same internal mechanicals, only a touch heavier, big price point savings. I also use the 1070 cassette, not the noisy all-piece one.

tigerpaws

Oct 17, 11 12:50

Post #5 of 20 (1427 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

On road bikes as of late I have had a Red gruppo, Rival and now Apex. I gotta tell ya unless I look down there isn't any way I can tell an iota of difference from my really expensive Red to the ultra economical Apex. To that end I wouldn't trade a brand new 7800 gruppo for my Apex, but I would for some Di2 love!

Dan7

Oct 17, 11 13:06

Post #6 of 20 (1390 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Red and Force's performance are much same. Only the difference is weight and Price. In my opinion, Force will work very well unless you're weight weenies.

spagoli

Oct 17, 11 14:17

Post #7 of 20 (1275 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [Dan7] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

well if you love to climb surely light is right? i'd say it depends on your pockets as well, if you can afford it I'd go Red. I thought about mixing Force brakes and FD to keep down the cost with Red shifters and RD. in the end I thought everytime I looked down I'd be a little disappointed. Glad I did now, probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference but I'd know and really have wanted all Red.

gardenvelo

Oct 17, 11 14:21

Post #8 of 20 (1263 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Red's front derailleur cage is pretty flexy and has a tendency to not shift real well. If you can swap the Red cage out for the Force cage, you'll have better performance - or just go all Red with a Force FD.

spagoli

Oct 17, 11 14:50

Post #9 of 20 (1219 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [gardenvelo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

gardenvelo wrote:

Really? I'd heard this was the thing people were saying who claimed to be in the know but I've not found anyone who has found it making a difference themselves. I'd since heard that it was a load of rubbish, maybe if you are a pro rider putting out masses of watts it was a consideration but not for normal riders.

Is that from your exp. I had problems myself to start and the LBS offered to swap it out but I think that was just to cover up that they hadn't dialed it in right, now sorted and no problems.

gardenvelo

Oct 17, 11 14:57

Post #10 of 20 (1206 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [spagoli] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My wife has a Red FD on her ccx bike and while racing, it's not a big deal because she doesn't shift rings that often. When she trains on the road with the ccx bike and uses all the gears, she has a real hard time getting the thing to go into the big ring. She doesn't have the problem with the Shimano kit, or the Apex, or Rival that she also has on other bikes.

gardenvelo

Oct 17, 11 15:01

Post #11 of 20 (1200 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [spagoli] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

spagoli wrote:

I had problems myself to start and the LBS offered to swap it out but I think that was just to cover up that they hadn't dialed it in right, now sorted and no problems.

Oh yeah, my mechanic told me the same thing, in fact, that's who I heard it from, and the reason she can't get that particular bike to shift. Maybe you're right though - it could be rubbish.

morey000

Oct 17, 11 15:11

Post #12 of 20 (1176 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [gardenvelo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

And, FWIW, Force is 100g lighter than Shimano DA
http://www.totalcycling.com/...mponent-weights.html

So, it's not exactly a tremendous weight penalty.

The best thing about RED is that it's cool. It's the hottest grouppo going these days. And, we all know that cycling is mostly about style.

rbuike

Oct 17, 11 15:55

Post #13 of 20 (1125 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tom Demerly wrote:

I've ridden both extensively and am on Force now since I frankly couldn't tell the difference between the two in terms of shift quality.

What he said! But as posted here as well, if you do go Red, stick with the Force FD.

Rodney
TrainingPeaks Ambassador
ICEcot Athlete | Team Vega Athlete
http://barefoottriathlete.ca

Rappstar

Oct 17, 11 15:55

Post #14 of 20 (1124 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I've ridden them both a lot; about 40% RED / 60% Force for the past four years. Probably about 15,000mi+ on each groupset. I ride Force on my road bike and RED on my tri bike. Blindfolded, I absolutely could NOT tell you the difference between the two.

I do ride the same crankset - S-Works - but different chainrings (RED on the road bike & TT on the tri bike). And I still don't notice much difference up front. Of course, I try not to use the small ring on my TT bike very much. ;)

rroof

Oct 17, 11 16:02

Post #15 of 20 (1104 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My road race rig is all Red (including front derailleur), crit bike is Force. Probably 15K+ miles as well. You can only tell a slight difference if you really take your time and TRY to find one - so really, there is none. I think the Red front Brifters shift just a little smoother, but that is the only thing I might spring for, otherwise, everything else Force is perfect.
____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

c.dan.run

Oct 17, 11 16:04

Post #16 of 20 (1098 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [-Mike-] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

When I had to replace a rear Force shifter with a Red shifter I noticed the throw was shorter. That was a 2009 Force Shifter that I replaced with a 2010 Red shifter. They may be the same now. A small difference tho.

pacman

Oct 17, 11 16:24

Post #17 of 20 (1062 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [spagoli] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

On my TT bike I had to swap out my Red FD for the Force as the Red's flexing dropped the chain too many times. This was on a Trek Speed Concept 9. I took the Force FD from my road bike and haven't had any issues with the Red on the road bike ... yet.

One of the Trek reps at the Vegas 70.3 booth confirmed to me that the Red FD could flex too much and it was common to use the Force FD instead. Again, for the TT bikes, not necessarily road bikes.

-Mike-

Oct 17, 11 16:36

Post #18 of 20 (1043 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [c.dan.jog] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks for the information and thoughts, i am going to go all force except for the crank--i think red has an advantage in their crankset. I have a red crank on my TT bike and think it is comparable to my previous DA 7900 crank.

mcmetal

Oct 17, 11 16:37

Post #19 of 20 (1042 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [pacman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have Red on one bike and Force on another. As others have stated, you can't tell the difference between them. I have not had any issues with the Red front derailleur flexing.

Nitrox73

Oct 17, 11 22:30

Post #20 of 20 (930 views)

Re: Roadies: Shifting difference between RED and Force [packetloss] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The whole flexing issue was going around right after they came out but my understanding is they changed design 2 years ago and fixed the issue. I could be wrong.

I used Rival when it first came out and could tell when I was on it versus my Force equipped bike. When I sold the Rival and went with Red I couldn't tell any difference between my Red & Force bikes with the exception of the cassettes. The 1090's are loud and I switched my Red equipped bike to a 1070 and never looked back.

My only wish is that Force was more available as an option on new bikes. It seems to me most bikes are Apex/Rival or Red.