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P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9
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drgreen68
Apr 28, 11 0:07
Post #1 of 42
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P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9
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Hi!
Does anybody know if the chainstays/brakes on the 2011 Cervelo P4 evo is compatible with the wider discs?
I have a 2010 P4 so Iīm sh-t out of luck but my friend has a 2011 on its way so we are trying to decide on racewheels.
gtingley
Apr 28, 11 6:09
Post #2 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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The Super9 will fit an 11 P4 with 1 or 2mm clearance
The seattube is more narrow than the Super9, you can see the edges of the rim sticking out from the sides of the seattube
Gary Tingley, M.S., USA Cycling Level 2 / Certified Power-based Training Coach
http://garytingley.com
| Wattage training for Road, Criterium, Time Trial
leegoocrap
Apr 28, 11 6:32
Post #3 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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You should try to get ahold of mohamad90, he probably has the answer...
I mean, he has the hookup on Everything
2011 CERVELO P4 RED TRIATHLON TT
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
jackmott
Apr 28, 11 6:35
Post #4 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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gerard has hinted, as has at least one other person, that flat discs are a wee bit faster in the p3 and p4 frames.
so you could avoid the issues altogether =)
An Interview with Matty Reed, and his Fuji Norcom Straight
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
drgreen68
Apr 28, 11 7:11
Post #5 of 42
(5501 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [jackmott]
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Thanks for replying!
Yes I have read that somewhere too about the flat being better (maybe). Doesnīt the super 9 "almost " qualify as flat?
Also since the super 9 is supposed to be stiffer than the sub maybe it has less chance of rubbing due to flexing?
jackmott
Apr 28, 11 7:14
Post #6 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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stiffer wheels increase the chance of rubbing, not decrease, generally.
An Interview with Matty Reed, and his Fuji Norcom Straight
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
drgreen68
Apr 28, 11 7:20
Post #7 of 42
(5485 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [jackmott]
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Yeah you are right- I still keep messing up my thinking on that...
I think the sub 9 is a millimeter wider at itīs widest point compared to super 9 according to the specs.
I tried a slim version of the hed jet in my 2010, I could only get it to fit if it was a little offset so one side since itīs a bit assymetric.
7summits
Apr 28, 11 7:27
Post #8 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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http://www.lightweight.info/en/products/disc.html
Throw one of these one there.
drgreen68
Apr 28, 11 7:35
Post #9 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [7summits]
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It was actually his first alternative...not so easy to get a hold of even when you live in europe...
stepurgameup
Apr 28, 11 7:37
Post #10 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [jackmott]
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jackmott wrote:
stiffer wheels increase the chance of rubbing, not decrease, generally.
why is that btw?
7summits
Apr 28, 11 7:38
Post #11 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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I can get them pretty easily. Message me if you are interested.
jackmott
Apr 28, 11 7:41
Post #12 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [stepurgameup]
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stepurgameup wrote:
jackmott wrote:
stiffer wheels increase the chance of rubbing, not decrease, generally.
why is that btw?
cliffnotes:
if the wheel is flexible, its going to bend down near the ground, not where its going to touch anything
if the wheel is stiff, its going to bend the bikes frame, and lean one way or the other where it might touch seat stays or brakes
rappstar has some more detailed explanations if you search
An Interview with Matty Reed, and his Fuji Norcom Straight
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Rappstar
Apr 28, 11 8:36
Post #13 of 42
(5393 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [jackmott]
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jackmott wrote:
gerard has hinted, as has at least one other person, that flat discs are a wee bit faster in the p3 and p4 frames.
so you could avoid the issues altogether =)
it's not a "hint." It's true. The Super9, which is not flat, is even faster than a flat disc.
Cliff's notes:
- bulged discs do a really good job of cleaning up airflow over the LEADING edge of a wheel, which makes them really fast in the tunnel without a bike (in a stand) or in frames with a big gap or a poorly designed seattube. But the air hits that same bulge on the backside as it's exiting the wheel, which is bad. Generally, what the air hits first is more important than what it leaves off of, but trailing edge aerodynamics are still important.
- on a flat disc (or a "tapered" disc like the Super9), you get better airflow off the rear ("trailing edge") of the disc.
Since the seattubes on bikes like the P3 and P4 are both so well designed and also so close to the wheel, the air basically never sees another leading edge after it hits the seattube. It just flows right onto the disc. So the leading edge aerodynamics of the wheel itself are basically irrelevant. And trailing edge aerodynamics become the ruling factor as to what makes a wheel better/worse. That's why, in a bike like the P4, a flat disc is faster.
There MIGHT also be some reduced interaction between the wheel and the seatstays, but that's just a guess. The former reason is the "big" reason.
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jdgreena
Apr 30, 11 11:37
Post #14 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [gtingley]
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I ordered a Super 9 for my 2011 P4 (Size 54) and while there was enough clearance from the chainstays (barely), there was no way to get the brakes adjusted wide enough without rubbing. I sent it back and have a 900 tubular coming in its place. I guess you could, however, take the rear brake out and it would work...
drgreen68
May 2, 11 6:02
Post #15 of 42
(5125 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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Thanks for all the answers :-)
Ok, so this saturday was the first time we had a chance to compare my 2010 P4 to his 2011.
From what my ruler could tell me at least there was no more room between chainstays on the new model.
We went ahead and ordered a ffwd disc for his bike which is the same as I use. He will be using a 808 firecrest in front.
By the way the 2010 P4 must be more aero since I beat him over 30K by three minutes ;-)
veryoriginal
Jun 17, 11 21:36
Post #16 of 42
(4873 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [Rappstar]
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Rappstar have you raced with a Super 9 before? If so, what is the longest distance tri you have used one on?
studodd
Jun 18, 11 1:00
Post #17 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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drgreen68 wrote:
Yeah you are right- I still keep messing up my thinking on that...
I think the sub 9 is a millimeter wider at itīs widest point compared to super 9 according to the specs.
I tried a slim version of the hed jet in my 2010, I could only get it to fit if it was a little offset so one side since itīs a bit assymetric.
are the seat stays any different in the 09, to the 10/11?
will a super9 fit in an 09?
Dave Luscan
Jun 18, 11 3:09
Post #18 of 42
(4778 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [drgreen68]
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I just tried a sub9 in my 2011 p4 last night and it did not fit.
Finding Freestyle - Got timing?
Luscan Tweets
JollyRogers
Jun 18, 11 3:28
Post #19 of 42
(4759 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [Dave Luscan]
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Dave Luscan wrote:
I just tried a sub9 in my 2011 p4 last night and it did not fit.
Fitting my newly arrived 900 clincher today. That was the disc Cervelo recommended to me in the Zipp lineup.
Dave Luscan
Jun 18, 11 3:31
Post #20 of 42
(4758 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [JollyRogers]
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Yeah I am riding a flat disc, but someone loaned me the sub 9 and I wanted to check it out.
Finding Freestyle - Got timing?
Luscan Tweets
JollyRogers
Jun 18, 11 3:37
Post #21 of 42
(4752 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [Dave Luscan]
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Good luck tomorrow Dave.
Dave Luscan
Jun 18, 11 3:46
Post #22 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [JollyRogers]
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You too.
Finding Freestyle - Got timing?
Luscan Tweets
DClarke
Jun 18, 11 6:49
Post #23 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [studodd]
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I have a Super 9 in my 2010 P4, which I think is the same as 2009. I had to file the brake pads down to almost nothing and spend a few hours adjusting the brakes but it does fit.
Duncan
studodd
Jun 18, 11 6:53
Post #24 of 42
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Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [DClarke]
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awesome, thank you. will try and see how we go. if not will use the lightweight.
BrianB
Jun 18, 11 8:15
Post #25 of 42
(4603 views)
Re: P4 2011 and Zipp disc sub/super9 [Rappstar]
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Rappstar wrote:
Since the seattubes on bikes like the P3 and P4 are both so well designed and also so close to the wheel, the air basically never sees another leading edge after it hits the seattube. It just flows right onto the disc. So the leading edge aerodynamics of the wheel itself are basically irrelevant. And trailing edge aerodynamics become the ruling factor as to what makes a wheel better/worse. That's why, in a bike like the P4, a flat disc is faster.
Any idea whether this holds true for other frames also ... Felt DA in particular?
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