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Normalized Power Formula or Calculator...

 

   


plant

Nov 30, 10 9:22

Post #1 of 13 (8917 views)
Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... Quote | Reply

Can anyone provide a link or simple formula to above?


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 9:31

Post #2 of 13 (8909 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [plant] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

1) starting at the 30 s mark, calculate a rolling 30 s average (of the preceeding time points, obviously).

2) raise all the values obtained in step #1 to the 4th power.

3) take the average of all of the values obtained in step #2.

4) take the 4th root of the value obtained in step #3.

(And when you get tired of exporting every file to, e.g., Excel to perform such calculations, help develop a program like WKO+ to do the work for you <g>.)


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 9:33

Post #3 of 13 (8898 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

BTW, note that the above is predicated upon the assumption that you have a continuous stream of data (i.e., no gaps), with each value representing the average power for a particular (e.g., 1 s) time interval.

If there are gaps in the data, it is up to you to figure out how to deal with them logically, whereas if the data are downsampled instead of averaged (e.g., when using a PowerTap or older Polar), then the normalized power value will be inflated (sometimes grossly).


msuguy512

Nov 30, 10 10:25

Post #4 of 13 (8859 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I have thought about developing said program for a while :) How long did it take you to put WKO together?


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 10:31

Post #5 of 13 (8854 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I have thought about developing said program for a while :) How long did it take you to put WKO together?

Note that I said "help"...which in my case, really just meant contributing ideas. Hunter and Kevin Williams did all the hard work (and took all the risks) when producing the original CyclingPeaks that eventually led to WKO+ (and now numerous imitators).


justatest

Nov 30, 10 10:37

Post #6 of 13 (8841 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I have thought about developing said program for a while :)
Or you could contribute to GoldenCheetah.


msuguy512

Nov 30, 10 11:06

Post #7 of 13 (8819 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I have plenty of ideas, just always forget them by the time I get to work :)

-PMC
Lets say I start training with power on Jan 1 and set CTL & ATL to 50. I train and my CTL go up/down with training and lets say at June 1st my CTL & ATL are 70. If I reset the window of the PMC to June1-July1 to 'zoom' in on that region, it automatically sets the CTL & ATL of June 1st to the initial 50/50 since that is the first entry into the window althought my CTL & ATL are actually 70 at that point so it messes up the following data. Therefore I am not allowed to zoom in on a certain region without compromising my data or adjusting the baseline CTL/ATL to what it should be. There should be a date associated with the initial CTL/ATL or something to fix this issue


-Manual Entry
Lets say my data gets corrupted and I want to enter in my manual data. Lets say I averaged 200W for 1 hr. I enter in these metrics, the power distribution plot will show 200W for 1hr which is obviously not what happened. If I then plot my power distribution for 7days or 28days or whatever it will be skewed by this input.


-Weight/FTP
-There needs to be a tabular input for weight/FTP to simplify inputing the data. Lets say I have a scale and weigh myself everyday and write down the numbers, then at the end of the week I can go into the raw data input and enter in my weight instead of having to open/adjust/save each ride file.


I will also note that I have been using the trial version for 8 months with no issues at all ;)

I have others but this is all I can remember right now.


(This post was edited by msuguy512 on Nov 30, 10 11:08)


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 11:14

Post #8 of 13 (8806 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I have plenty of ideas, just always forget them by the time I get to work :)

-PMC
Lets say I start training with power on Jan 1 and set CTL & ATL to 50. I train and my CTL go up/down with training and lets say at June 1st my CTL & ATL are 70. If I reset the window of the PMC to June1-July1 to 'zoom' in on that region, it automatically sets the CTL & ATL of June 1st to the initial 50/50 since that is the first entry into the window althought my CTL & ATL are actually 70 at that point so it messes up the following data. Therefore I am not allowed to zoom in on a certain region without compromising my data or adjusting the baseline CTL/ATL to what it should be. There should be a date associated with the initial CTL/ATL or something to fix this issue


-Manual Entry
Lets say my data gets corrupted and I want to enter in my manual data. Lets say I averaged 200W for 1 hr. I enter in these metrics, the power distribution plot will show 200W for 1hr which is obviously not what happened. If I then plot my power distribution for 7days or 28days or whatever it will be skewed by this input.


-Weight/FTP
-There needs to be a tabular input for weight/FTP to simplify inputing the data. Lets say I have a scale and weigh myself everyday and write down the numbers, then at the end of the week I can go into the raw data input and enter in my weight instead of having to open/adjust/save each ride file.


I will also note that I have been using the trial version for 8 months with no issues at all ;)

I have others but this is all I can remember right now.

Not to belittle your suggestions, but I meant ideas like the training levels, normalized power/intensity factor/training stress score, power profiling, quadrant analysis, and what is now known as the Performance Manager. How WKO+ actually looks/performs is not really in my baliwick (since I'm not part of TrainingPeaks).


msuguy512

Nov 30, 10 11:17

Post #9 of 13 (8801 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I gotcha. I had a few ideas in those regards as well.

For example, if one does their VO2 analysis could they plug in their fat/cho oxidation and use that to determine how many calories were burned by fat and how many by carb's during a ride?


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 11:21

Post #10 of 13 (8797 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
if one does their VO2 analysis could they plug in their fat/cho oxidation and use that to determine how many calories were burned by fat and how many by carb's during a ride?

Of course. I'm not sure how such information could be leveraged to improve performance, however.


msuguy512

Nov 30, 10 11:28

Post #11 of 13 (8788 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If carbohydrates are a main factor in fatigue then some sort of tracking mechanism to determine how long you can continue at a certain pace and possible to measure what your glycogen storage is. Just a thought.

Oh, also, what about some sort of tss/atl/ctl for the different regions of the quadrant analysis. So if you do a 100tss ride and 20% of it was spent in quadrant IV then quadrant IV gets 20tss points.


(This post was edited by msuguy512 on Nov 30, 10 11:31)


Andrew Coggan

Nov 30, 10 11:31

Post #12 of 13 (8782 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
If carbohydrates are a main factor in fatigue then some sort of tracking mechanism to determine how long you can continue at a certain pace and possible to measure what your glycogen storage is.

Your power relative your functional threshold power (or, better still, your recent personal best for that duration) tells you that.


msuguy512

Nov 30, 10 11:37

Post #13 of 13 (8765 views)
Re: Normalized Power Formula or Calculator... [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Good point, my other consideration was about how many carbs would be needed to recover your glycogen stores from a specific workout more accurately.

   
 
 
 



Current-aided swims
Do swims aided by a current, such as the NYC Tri and the past weekend's IM Chattanooga, diminish the achievement? Or are they just a local geographic expression of multisport?
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