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Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT

 

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leegoocrap

May 19, 10 6:28

Post #26 of 459 (9630 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Bryancd] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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I think the controversial part comes from his stance that you really should never "HTFU" in the pool according to his philosophy. (The title of the thread is from someone asking whether he needs to HTFU in his swim training.)


People at BT should be forbidden to use the term "HTFU".


I'm on BT, would to apply that to me? :)
There are some very fast and solid athletes and coaches who post over there.


I say that mainly because as a group they are so thin skinned that they'll go crying to administrators if you write something
they don't want to hear. That's certainly not HTFU.

Being fat and slow is one thing, but being a crybaby is another.


Oh, well that's true. :) I would just take a bit of care disparaging them...as I am one of them. Besides, you want silly, there's a thread here on the front page with people saying Netwon shoe's make them forefoot strikers and run faster.

Bryan I thought we went over this... if you had been wearing Newton's instead of those silly Zoot's... just think of how much better your 10k time would have been.
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Bryancd

May 19, 10 6:32

Post #27 of 459 (9622 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [leegoocrap] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

[replyBryan I thought we went over this... if you had been wearing Newton's instead of those silly Zoot's... just think of how much better your 10k time would have been.[/reply]

LOL! Another BT'er to the rescue! :) That Newton thread wouldn't have gone 3 posts on BT without someone suggesting that perhaps improved run pacing might be the results of their training as opposed to their shoe's. Come ST! They are like lambs to the slaughter! ;)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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jackmott

May 19, 10 6:34

Post #28 of 459 (9621 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Just Old Again] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

you have the wrong "he"

In Reply To:
Heh yourself. If we go by his 2mi swim record, he's more like at 35x100 at 1:20.


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Gerry Rodrigues

May 19, 10 6:36

Post #29 of 459 (9612 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm uncertain how to break the news to the TI followers, but here's direct: Terry is a good guy, and pretty fair to mediocre swimmer; technically sound in many areas, but medoicre in speed. Winning a 2-mile cable swim may seem to give credibility, and for some justify these training techniques, but a USMS 2-mile cable swim may have 100 people total entered in it. And 46 minutes in a cable swim (read as you can't swim crooked) is pretty mediocre swimming for a "swimmer", even at 56 year old. Here is keeping it simple, real simple: Train at faster rates to be fast, train only slow to be slow. There is one major element that TI misses: STROKE RATE. Terry claims his is 55 strokes per minute. At a recent 10k swim race in Brazil, the lead pack swam at a rate of approx. 84/min, until the break occured at about the 7k, where rates went to 92-100 for the entire last 3k. Go check the stroke race rates from the likes of: Andy Potts, John Flannigan, Sara McClarty, Hayley Piersol, Clayton Fettel, Havier Gomez.....none are low.
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Uncle Phil

May 19, 10 6:38

Post #30 of 459 (9607 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It's always depressing to swim next to fast guys. One of swim coaches has gone 2:00 for a 200m IM...I'm pretty sure I can only keep up when he does sculling drills and I'm sprinting.

(This post was edited by Uncle Phil on May 19, 10 6:38)


Bryancd

May 19, 10 6:39

Post #31 of 459 (9600 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Gerry Rodrigues] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I'm uncertain how to break the news to the TI followers, but here's direct: Terry is a good guy, and pretty fair to mediocre swimmer; technically sound in many areas, but medoicre in speed. Winning a 2-mile cable swim may seem to give credibility, and for some justify these training techniques, but a USMS 2-mile cable swim may have 100 people total entered in it. And 46 minutes in a cable swim (read as you can't swim crooked) is pretty mediocre swimming for a "swimmer", even at 56 year old. Here is keeping it simple, real simple: Train at faster rates to be fast, train only slow to be slow. There is one major element that TI misses: STROKE RATE. Terry claims his is 55 strokes per minute. At a recent 10k swim race in Brazil, the lead pack swam at a rate of approx. 84/min, until the break occured at about the 7k, where rates went to 92-100 for the entire last 3k. Go check the stroke race rates from the likes of: Andy Potts, John Flannigan, Sara McClarty, Hayley Piersol, Clayton Fettel, Havier Gomez.....none are low.


He posted those results, it was around 21:xx for 1.5K average, which for a swim only race didn't seem very fast to me either even in his AG, and I posted as much, but he didn't respond.

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leegoocrap

May 19, 10 6:39

Post #32 of 459 (9600 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Bryancd] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
[replyBryan I thought we went over this... if you had been wearing Newton's instead of those silly Zoot's... just think of how much better your 10k time would have been.


LOL! Another BT'er to the rescue! :) That Newton thread wouldn't have gone 3 posts on BT without someone suggesting that perhaps improved run pacing might be the results of their training as opposed to their shoe's. Come ST! They are like lambs to the slaughter! ;)[/reply]
To all fairness though, it would have also spawned a couple of Vibram Five Finger threads too...
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saltman

May 19, 10 6:56

Post #33 of 459 (9556 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

holy shit.....I don't really subscribe to the TI methods, but this thread is hilarious.

So, a bunch of "triathletes" that can ride a 40K in 1:00 and run a 5K in 18:00, but cannot swim for shit think their limiter is fitness??

If you cannot swim a 1.5K in under 24 minutes you need SERIOUS help with technique.


stillrollin

May 19, 10 6:57

Post #34 of 459 (9556 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Bryancd] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Qaulified or not he has found a huge, gullible audience to market his product. Just like all the coach wannbes there he'll be laughing all the way to bank.


lightheir

May 19, 10 7:15

Post #35 of 459 (9509 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [JoshBoots] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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terry laughlin himself can keep putting out that garbage slow swimming while the rest of the swimming world gets fast.

as usual, someone is trying to sell a gimmick to lazy rich triathletes that want to skip the work.

the only truth he spouts is a ridiculously verbose wall of text that really simply means, pace well.

"You can't win the race during the swim leg, but you can certainly lose it - or seriously compromise your chances for a satisfying outcome. Unless you are a near-elite, who practiced lots of "red-line" swimming in your youth, your best races will happen when you keep your HR relatively low during the swim and can recover it fully within 90 sec to 2 minutes of leaving the water."

"brevity is the soul of wit" LOL


I will admit- I bought into the TI Kool-Aid last year when I started triathlons. I have only been swimming for about 20 months but in all honesty, it helped me a lot- to a point. I spent a lot of time focusing on their drills and "feeling" the water.

After I could swim relatively decent (decent being a stretch) then came the hard work. Just with anything, you need to put the time and effort into the workout to become faster.

Maybe some people have the talent I lack. However, if I want to run a 5k in 20:00, I better be able to complete half-mile repeats under 3:00 and mile repeats around 6:00. For me, I have to train my body at that pace in order to hit that pace.

Again, for me, the same goes for swimming. If I want to average 1:40/100 on my next sprint, I should probably be hitting 1:30-1:35 in the pool or it's not going to happen. I can tell you for certain if all I do is swim 2:00/100- chances are my swim time will be right around 2:00/100.

Again, just my opinion.

This is 100% what I experienced, and after talking to other folks in the local triclub who learned to swim with TI at the same time I did, it's the NORM, not the exception. It's really "duh, common sense!" but Terry definitely oversells his TI approach.

I think he does this subconsciously - he's an accomplished swimmer with a lifetime of swimming experience, so his "go easy" taps into that. So it likely does work for him as it does for folks who swam a bunch in childhood and revisited it as an adult.

But for adult true newb learners like myself, it's not realistic at all. How are you possible supposed to magically swim 1:40/100m for 1500m when all you do in practice is do well-rested, technique-perfect sets at your uber-comfy pace of 2:10/100m with tons of rest between each 200m? I had repeated rude awakenings of swimming closer to 2:30 in OWS on race day because of the shock of having to swim while fatigued - something I hadn't done enough in practice due to Terry's advice.

Perhaps the only good thing, in my opinion, about the outlandish claim that you can swim fast with no hard work, is that it seduces newbs (like me) who otherwise wouldn't have touched triathlon with a 10-foot pole because of our fear of the swim leg. If I knew how hard I'd have to work on the swim just to get to MOP, I almost certainly never would have started triathlon at all! But I drank Terry's cool aid, and I recall being super-excited to find that "free speed" he was talking about.

2 years later, and I've yet to find any sort of free speed in swimming. Yes, technique is crucial, and I spent an entire year doing nothing but technique, but I wouldn't call that free speed, more like avoiding drowning (slower than 2:40/100m.)

I can tell you what definitely works for a beginner like me to get a lot faster, though. Swim 15,000k per week. For months. That DEFINITELY works, and is absolutely indisputable. Regardless of what minor technical flaws you still have.


masterslacker

May 19, 10 7:25

Post #36 of 459 (9486 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [saltman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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holy shit.....I don't really subscribe to the TI methods, but this thread is hilarious.

So, a bunch of "triathletes" that can ride a 40K in 1:00 and run a 5K in 18:00, but cannot swim for shit think their limiter is fitness??

If you cannot swim a 1.5K in under 24 minutes you need SERIOUS help with technique.

Well...you don't use your arms in either a 40k bike or 5k so I'd have to say fitness and perfect technique wouldn't get you to a 24min swim..IMHO

Unless you have a swim technique that doesn't require you to move your arms?


jyeager

May 19, 10 7:26

Post #37 of 459 (9485 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think he's right about everything he said.

Pay special attention to his 'caveat' where he makes an exception for those elite swimmers that did a ton of red-line training in their youth...those are probably the studly swimmers giving him grief on the BT thread (or their disciples who are just repeating what they heard).
IMO, elite swimmers are not necessarily the best people to get your advice from. They are physiologically different. It's like their childhood of swimming evolved them in to something we will never be.

And he made a VERY, VERY good point about swimming being restorative. It can be better for recovery than just laying in your bed.


lightheir

May 19, 10 7:29

Post #38 of 459 (9475 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [saltman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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holy shit.....I don't really subscribe to the TI methods, but this thread is hilarious.

So, a bunch of "triathletes" that can ride a 40K in 1:00 and run a 5K in 18:00, but cannot swim for shit think their limiter is fitness??

If you cannot swim a 1.5K in under 24 minutes you need SERIOUS help with technique.

Actually, I fall into that category. (Oly 5k about 19:xx and bike spilt about 1:03xx. Swim = terrible!)

I learned to swim 2 years ago. Zero swim background. Spent an entire year on technique and nothing but technique, and only started working hard recently.

I'm sure I have some technique problems, but I've been going to a good masters program of late, and the good coach there (locally respected) agrees that at this point, I'll only make minor gains with technique. Definitely nothing like 20-30sec/100 off.

It all comes down to background. I've been running for over 15 years, and ran 8 marathons, two under sub-3. Add my genetic big legs, and it's no surprise that I can run/bike at a respectable clip.

But on swimming, the limiter is clearly my swim-related endurance and power. There simply aren't enough capillaries built up in my swim muscles to function efficiently, and I can feel it. Even though my cardio might be capable of a good bike/run, my arms/lats/back are weak, and force my heart to pump super hard just to keep up. It feels exactly as I do when I do a one-legged bike drill - HR will still spike extremely high since your heart is trying to pump more blood through your entire body to supply a fast-fatiguing area.

It took me years to go from a 25min 5k to a sub-18, and a huge amount of work. (I'm not one of the gifted ones who did it with <35mpw). There's no reason to believe that it won't take similar work to get similarly fast in swimming, years, possibly.

If you doubt this is true, consider the fact that at least two guys in our local tri club who started triathlon several years ago (earlier than me) nearly qualified for the Olympics in swimming in their prime but aren't even close to FOP on the bike/run despite focusing on bike/run now. (Granted, they are almost definitely not training as hard as they did on their swim days, but still, point remains.) Swim fitness and run fitness do not necessarily overlap.


(This post was edited by lightheir on May 19, 10 7:33)


FLA Jill

May 19, 10 7:35

Post #39 of 459 (9458 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [jyeager] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm amused by the 'elite swimmer' tag because I suppose I'm pretty typical of ex-fish who end up in the sport in that I'd describe my ability level as mediocre to above average.

But I learned the lesson well of how to hold everything together while suffering, which is something I feel is a key to comfortable open water swimming and racing. If you never learn that lesson, then how are you supposed to handle it if the current kicks up badly, you get elbowed by another competitor in the ribs, you randomly cramp up for whatever reason. How do you know how to manage the aftermath if you get excited at the start and take it out hard enough to screw up breathing and heart rate if you haven't trained how to handle yourself when you feel like crap and your race is going pear-shaped?


saltman

May 19, 10 7:39

Post #40 of 459 (9450 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [masterslacker] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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holy shit.....I don't really subscribe to the TI methods, but this thread is hilarious.

So, a bunch of "triathletes" that can ride a 40K in 1:00 and run a 5K in 18:00, but cannot swim for shit think their limiter is fitness??

If you cannot swim a 1.5K in under 24 minutes you need SERIOUS help with technique.


Well...you don't use your arms in either a 40k bike or 5k so I'd have to say fitness and perfect technique wouldn't get you to a 24min swim..IMHO

Unless you have a swim technique that doesn't require you to move your arms?


The fact that you think it takes "fitness in your arms"....whatever that is, to swim a 24 minute 1500m shows you haven't a clue what you are talking about. BTW - a good 10 year old boy can swim that fast. It only takes fitness to swim a 1:40/100 if you are a shitty swimmer (based on technique). If you have reasonably sound technique 1:40/100 is a nice all-day cruise pace.....kind of like walking. I say this as a guy that considers himself to still be a shitty swimmer, but seem to come out near the FOP in the swim in most races. I am about a 1:05 40K TT and 21 minute 5K guy.

Just because you don't like the guy or the TI method doesn't mean he isn't correct in the larger picture. The methods are different, but the message is the same.


(This post was edited by saltman on May 19, 10 7:46)


jyeager

May 19, 10 7:42

Post #41 of 459 (9437 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [FLA Jill] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

All very valuable skills to handle the hardships we plan to avoid, but still happen. For me, I roll over on my back and backstroke a bit! Someone like yourself can probably just carry on with at least a 1:30/100m pace while coming back under threshold nice and comfortably. ;)

Not true for draft-legal racing, but for non-draft, my goal is to get out of the water sub-threshold. You are only about 20% in to an endurance race after all.


Rappstar

May 19, 10 7:50

Post #42 of 459 (9410 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Gerry Rodrigues] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I'm uncertain how to break the news to the TI followers, but here's direct: Terry is a good guy, and pretty fair to mediocre swimmer; technically sound in many areas, but medoicre in speed. Winning a 2-mile cable swim may seem to give credibility, and for some justify these training techniques, but a USMS 2-mile cable swim may have 100 people total entered in it. And 46 minutes in a cable swim (read as you can't swim crooked) is pretty mediocre swimming for a "swimmer", even at 56 year old. Here is keeping it simple, real simple: Train at faster rates to be fast, train only slow to be slow. There is one major element that TI misses: STROKE RATE. Terry claims his is 55 strokes per minute. At a recent 10k swim race in Brazil, the lead pack swam at a rate of approx. 84/min, until the break occured at about the 7k, where rates went to 92-100 for the entire last 3k. Go check the stroke race rates from the likes of: Andy Potts, John Flannigan, Sara McClarty, Hayley Piersol, Clayton Fettel, Havier Gomez.....none are low.

Just in case anyone missed this. Gerry is a *real* swimming coach - and a very good one. If you want to learn how to swim faster, read THIS post, and ignore anything Terry Laughlin writes. Terry is interested in selling TI videos/classes/etc. Gerry is interested in people swimming faster.


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lightheir

May 19, 10 7:51

Post #43 of 459 (9403 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [saltman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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In Reply To:
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holy shit.....I don't really subscribe to the TI methods, but this thread is hilarious.

So, a bunch of "triathletes" that can ride a 40K in 1:00 and run a 5K in 18:00, but cannot swim for shit think their limiter is fitness??

If you cannot swim a 1.5K in under 24 minutes you need SERIOUS help with technique.


Well...you don't use your arms in either a 40k bike or 5k so I'd have to say fitness and perfect technique wouldn't get you to a 24min swim..IMHO

Unless you have a swim technique that doesn't require you to move your arms?

The fact that you think it takes "fitness in your arms"....whatever that is, to swim a 24 minute 1500m shows you haven't a clue what you are talking about. BTW - a good 10 year old boy can swim that fast. It only takes fitness to swim a 1:40/100 if you are a shitty swimmer (based on technique). If you have reasonably sound technique 1:40/100 is a nice all-day cruise pace.....kind of like walking. I say this as a guy that considers himself to still be a shitty swimmer, but seem to come out near the FOP in the swim in most races. I am about a 1:05 40K TT and 21 minute 5K guy.

And I'll bet that you didn't learn to swim 2 years ago, coming from zero swim background.

This sort of generalization is common for experienced folks. I could make the same comment about cycling or running. A 21 5k for me is so slow that would be a joke for me to race at that speed. Even after a complete layoff for 3 months with zero workouts, it took me 3 workout of under 3 miles each to run under 21 for 5k.

Does that mean it doesn't take any fitness to run a 21 5k? No - it just means I have the background built up in my legs so doing it again is easy. It's so easy for me that I've done a sub-21 5k with a stroller pushing my kid just for fun. That still doesn't mean that because it's easy for me, it should be easy for everyone, and that it's all due to my special running technique. For me to get to this level, I had to train my *** off - sprints, volume, and more sprints. Hurt like hell and no shortcuts.

If your fastest 5k ever was a 30 (and there are many on BT who fall in this category), it'll take a hellacious amount of work to get down to 21.

To say that swimming a sub-24 1.5k is so easy that anyone can do it with zero swim fitness is a load of bull. Sub-24 is near, if not FOP in most Oly races, and likely a better performance than a 21min 5k in a lot of races.

I think you're confusing your natural gifts and/or ability with the reality of the situation. That's the same exact critique I have for Terry Laughlin - it might work for him, but I doubt it works for even a minority. FOP is not commonplace precisely because it takes a combination of technique, talent, and hard work. Or else everyone on BT would be FOP.


(This post was edited by lightheir on May 19, 10 7:58)


saltman

May 19, 10 7:57

Post #44 of 459 (9393 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Swimming is the only discipline of the 3 in which a former HS swimmer who hasn't seen a pool in 10 years can probably come out and destroy a bunch of triathletes at a masters workout. Why? Because of technique not fitness.

I have a buddy that ran cross country in college just 5 years ago and no longer runs race a 5K with me and couldn't run faster than 8 minute miles. He maybe has only gained about 6lbs since college and used to run low 15 minute 5Ks, but the guy is just plain out of shape.

I question how much you really worked on technique for that year.


MOP_Mike

May 19, 10 8:06

Post #45 of 459 (9374 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
"I know this is anecdotal, but I never swim "extremely hard," let alone on a regular basis, yet swam the USMS 2-mile Cable Swim in 46:20 at age 56, breaking my own USMS 55-59 record. [

That is a 55:41 IM swim pace. Granted, that's a lot faster than I can swim, but a lot slower than many here. How can that be a USMS record?


"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.


lightheir

May 19, 10 8:09

Post #46 of 459 (9361 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [saltman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Your argument is unconvincing to me. As stated before, I've done similar things with running - because of my HS running background, I can take a huge layoff, but then out and outrun every runner who started training as an adult in the local group in the weekly track workout. But I'm under no illusion it's due to my special technique.

I'm not denying that technique is crucial for swimming - despite your snide remarks, I spent almost 1.5 hours per day, 3-4x/wk on technique last year, with a regular coach (was hella expensive, too!). But I do think that it's overstated, and the example you give is a classic example of such an overstatement.

You are definitely confusing innate ability and background and trying to generalize it as applicable to everyone, when it's clearly not. Just because it's easy me to run a sub-21 5k, for you to swim a sub-24 1500 OWS and easy a bunch of 10 year old swimmers (who often already have 3+ years of serious swimming experience!) to go that fast, doesn't mean that therefore it's all technique requiring no fitness and that EVERYBODY has the ability to do it.


(This post was edited by lightheir on May 19, 10 8:13)


saltman

May 19, 10 8:14

Post #47 of 459 (9350 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I couldn't swim a single length of a long course pool when I started triathlon.

Triathletes are shitty swimmers because they A) have shitty technique and B) because they don't fucking swim in training

Mastering technique requires repitition, repitition requires swimming, but not necessarily "hard" swimming. Let me be clear, I am not an expert, but I don't believe the term "fitness" is sport specific. VO2 is V02, what you can do with that number in a given sport is about economy. I am only evaluating the comments posted, I don't know anything about Terry.

Sub-24 is perhaps better than a sub-21 5k, but both are pretty shitty. The swim is disproportionate in most triathlon distances, so shitty swimmers can get away with it.

shitty is my word of the day.


Slowman

May 19, 10 8:19

Post #48 of 459 (9328 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

limiting myself to the bona fides of gerry rodrigues, and not the merits of anyone's views or comments, i'll also add that gerry is not simply a renowned coach, but, one of the greatest open water swimmers in U.S. history. when gerry admonishes you to emulate great open water swimmers, and he lists them, most of those he lists would have had a very hard time besting gerry in an open water swim, and that includes andy potts and john flanagan.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman


STP

May 19, 10 8:19

Post #49 of 459 (9327 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

 It is true that you can go from being really really bad at swimming to being alot less bad solely on technique improvements and with very litte actual hard training work. And, that is actually all the majority of triathletes are intersted in so in some sense the TI mantra is correct. However, its a complete myth that there is any "free" speed after that. At some point, and that point is not very far up the swimming ladder, you need to work to get faster.

At some point, and it is a point pretty low on the swimming latter, technique and fitness become mirror images of each other. You have to become more fit to exectute proper techinuque at speed and you need proper technique at speed to develop the fitness to execute techinque and on and on in an endless cycle. You do need to TRAIN to get faster, no just mimic ideal movements. You don't train just to get "fit" but your train, in part to get fit enough to execute proper techinique.


klehner

May 19, 10 8:21

Post #50 of 459 (9324 views)
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [MOP_Mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
In Reply To:
"I know this is anecdotal, but I never swim "extremely hard," let alone on a regular basis, yet swam the USMS 2-mile Cable Swim in 46:20 at age 56, breaking my own USMS 55-59 record. [


That is a 55:41 IM swim pace. Granted, that's a lot faster than I can swim, but a lot slower than many here. How can that be a USMS record?


Maybe I'm looking at something else, but http://www.usms.org/...09/2micblresults.pdf

says that the 55-59 record is 44:35 set in 2008; perhaps Terry set it before that record eclipsed his own. But the record in 2008 was 46:09 set in 2007 http://www.usms.org/...08/2micblresults.pdf (I note that a 55-59 woman went 47:52 that year), when Terry went 46:20. Ah, he broke his own record, but lost to a guy who broke his record by more.

(yeah, I'm a bit bored)
----------------------------------
Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy

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Power Meters
What will be your go-to power meter in 2014?
SRM
Quarq
Powertap
Stages
Garmin Vector
Rotor Power
Polar/Look
Power2max
Pioneer
Other
None, but will buy one eventually
None, and donít anticipate buying