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Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA

 
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chainpin

Apr 28, 10 8:17

Post #1 of 37 (1977 views)
Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA Quote | Reply
Looks like this project will be approved after all these years of red tape.

I'm indifferent on this one, but I guess if I lived down in that area I wouldn't be too happy about looking at all those windmills out in the ocean.

http://www.boston.com/...ion_expected_to.html

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



AndysStrongAle

Apr 28, 10 8:41

Post #2 of 37 (1952 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
They are all over the mid west, and I think they look really cool. Maybe its the little kid in me who still loves Tonka trucks & big machines. But those wind turbines create jobs, I think its something like they need maintenance once a week.

I hear of complaints of the red lights flickering on top, some noise from the local people who live by it, and people saying it destroys the picture of the landscape (here the landscape is corn, there it is the ocean). But it doesn't bother me.

(This post was edited by AndysStrongAle on Apr 28, 10 8:43)


kdw

Apr 28, 10 9:26

Post #3 of 37 (1930 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
As a sailor, it would be really cool if on days with no wind they could power those suckers up so people wouldn't have to drift around waiting for the sea breeze to fill in.


Ti T'war

Apr 28, 10 11:46

Post #4 of 37 (1901 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Interesting that it was an outcry from native american tribes that held this thing up claiming that the unerwater shoal might contain artifacts since it was once above water and that the turbines would interfere with the sun ceremony worship. Not that I'm unsympathetic to the native americans just that I thought they'd be onboard with a wind farm over a new coal fire or nuclear plant.

We drove through a huge wind installation last year and it was crazy. crazy cool. Much better than looking at any other form of power generation IMHO.
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Ironmom1

Apr 28, 10 13:48

Post #5 of 37 (1858 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [Ti T'war] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I thought it was ironic that all the democratic"elite" who have houses on that side of the Cape, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard were against the wind farm. They are all for environmentalism except when it is in their backyard. So they will have to see the turbines when they sail to Martha's Vineyard for the weekend - boo hoo.


Rodred

Apr 28, 10 14:14

Post #6 of 37 (1852 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [Ironmom1] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I thought it was ironic that all the democratic"elite" who have houses on that side of the Cape, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard were against the wind farm. They are all for environmentalism except when it is in their backyard. So they will have to see the turbines when they sail to Martha's Vineyard for the weekend - boo hoo.


Theres a video of a certain rabid eco-freak Kennedy out there getting stumped when he was aked why it was ok for other parts of the country to have these things and yet he was fighting them off of his families land. I think it might have been the same interview that he decided to use his private jet to attend and was busted out for that too.

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


Ironmom1

Apr 28, 10 15:31

Post #7 of 37 (1832 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
And it isn't even land that belongs to his family - they just look out on it. The people who are really concerned about the environment who live on the Cape support the wind farm.


peter826

Apr 28, 10 17:00

Post #8 of 37 (1823 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [Ironmom1] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I thought it was ironic that all the democratic"elite" who have houses on that side of the Cape, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard were against the wind farm. They are all for environmentalism except when it is in their backyard. So they will have to see the turbines when they sail to Martha's Vineyard for the weekend - boo hoo.


NIMBYism extends to both political parties. There are plenty of Dems who don't want clean power in their backyards and just as many Republicans who wouldn't want a coal power plant or a nuke in their neighborhood...


cerveloguy

Apr 28, 10 17:09

Post #9 of 37 (1819 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Fact is, we're going to run out of cheap oil some day. Better get used to it.


chainpin

Apr 28, 10 17:23

Post #10 of 37 (1814 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [cerveloguy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Hah, tell that to the fake ass, norheast progressive/liberal elites that try and demonize anyone that drives a fucking SUV, all the while they are against the Cape Wind project because it is going to ruin their precious view of Nantucket Sound.

Ted Kennedy comes to mind as I type this, along with the rest of his drunk/medicated family.

Fake ass greenwashers better find another beach to go.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



tigerchik

Apr 28, 10 17:25

Post #11 of 37 (1812 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Interesting article in Outside magazine about the alternative energy conundrum right now and how much of our land we're going to have to use to make it really work. Not as simple as sticking a couple solar panels on each house etc.
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chainpin

Apr 28, 10 17:33

Post #12 of 37 (1809 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [tigerchik] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Interesting article in Outside magazine about the alternative energy conundrum right now and how much of our land we're going to have to use to make it really work. Not as simple as sticking a couple solar panels on each house etc.


It is a conundrum, these people oppose drilling for oil in the ocean, because they fear something like the Gulf mess will occur, yet, when given the chance to implement a cleaner technology in that same ocean, they say..."nah, not in my backyard!"

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



justgeorge

Apr 28, 10 17:53

Post #13 of 37 (1800 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I don't know how they can complain it's going to ruin their view - at the closest point to land on Cape Cod (5 miles) they will appear to be about 1/2" tall on the horizon. At the farthest point (14 miles) they will be a speck.

Building them in the water, while putting them where the wind is, is so much more expensive to do that economically I don't get it.


chainpin

Apr 28, 10 17:59

Post #14 of 37 (1795 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [justgeorge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I don't know how they can complain it's going to ruin their view - at the closest point to land on Cape Cod (5 miles) they will appear to be about 1/2" tall on the horizon. At the farthest point (14 miles) they will be a speck.

Building them in the water, while putting them where the wind is, is so much more expensive to do that economically I don't get it.


What is going to happen is the scenario that played out in ME, but on a larger scale.

Where is my electricity??

http://www.seacoastonline.com/...0100423-NEWS-4230392

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



justgeorge

Apr 28, 10 18:06

Post #15 of 37 (1793 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
[reply
What is going to happen is the scenario that played out in ME, but on a larger scale.

Where is my electricity??http://www.seacoastonline.com/...0100423-NEWS-4230392[/reply[/url]]

From the above article:
[b]She recommended people interested in wind power have a wind survey done by a recognized company to see if there is enough wind to justify the cost.[/b]
[b]Paul Villenueve, an electrical engineer at the University of Maine, Orono, agrees that getting a good location is key.[/b]
[b]"There are vast swathes of Maine that don't have a good wind resource," he said. "You should never invest that kind of money — you're talking about $15,000 — without getting an assessment of the wind resource at the location for a couple of thousand dollars.[/b]
[b][/b]
Now that's funny - people plunked down $15k for a home wind turbine and now they will cut down trees that are blocking the wind. Duh.


JustinPB

Apr 28, 10 18:32

Post #16 of 37 (1784 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
the funny thing is, that when private companies pony up billions of dollars they tend to do their due diligence. Apparently these folks didn't. You don't drill an oil well without doing a survey to see if there's a chance of oil being present. You don't put up wind turbines if there's not enough wind. Pretty simple.


chainpin

May 7, 10 11:49

Post #17 of 37 (1731 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Wow, who could ever have seen this coming--Cape Wind Eletricity to Cost Consumers Twice as Much

http://www.bostonherald.com/...bg?articleid=1253118

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



MJuric

May 7, 10 12:01

Post #18 of 37 (1725 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Hey that's OK, ComEd offered to bailout the state of IL with 500M if the state guaranteed a 10% profit margin.

~Matt


voiceofreason

May 7, 10 12:07

Post #19 of 37 (1721 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I tend to be for environmentally cleaner sources of power as long as the cost isn't too much. Costing twice as much sounds like a lot, but $1.59 onto a real world monthly bill per customer (if I'm understanding that correctly)? I don't really know if that's enough of a "cost" to deter me from thinking this is a good thing to proceed with.

That and watching all of the super liberal NIMBY's bitch about seeing a 1/2 inch of a windmill on the horizon of the "sacred Nantucket Sound" make me think this was a good decision.

Admittedly, I'm not the most informed on this subject so there may be other economic ramifications of this farm that I am missing.


chainpin

May 7, 10 12:18

Post #20 of 37 (1718 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [voiceofreason] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I tend to be for environmentally cleaner sources of power as long as the cost isn't too much. Costing twice as much sounds like a lot, but $1.59 onto a real world monthly bill per customer (if I'm understanding that correctly)? I don't really know if that's enough of a "cost" to deter me from thinking this is a good thing to proceed with.

That and watching all of the super liberal NIMBY's bitch about seeing a 1/2 inch of a windmill on the horizon of the "sacred Nantucket Sound" make me think this was a good decision.

Admittedly, I'm not the most informed on this subject so there may be other economic ramifications of this farm that I am missing.



It is not so much the absolute number, but more the fact that this was sold to the people as a "green" project that would CUT their monthly electricity bills.

Now, suddenly, after approval, the CUT magically turns into an increase.

Sounds a lot like Obama's Doc Fix doesn't it?

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



(This post was edited by chainpin on Apr 30, 12 11:30)


voiceofreason

May 7, 10 12:22

Post #21 of 37 (1713 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Ahh, I understand what you are saying now. I know I read some stuff even before the approval that estimated costs would go up, but I'm not familiar with what the salespitch was leading up to recent events.

Sounds a lot like the HC bill actually, in terms of the cost argument....in a much simpler fashion of course.


chainpin

May 7, 10 12:34

Post #22 of 37 (1711 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [voiceofreason] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
So it costs about $.07 kWh to generate power with wind, yet, Cape Wind is selling it for $.20 kWh.

No wonder they battled for 10 years to get this built.




"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



klehner

May 7, 10 12:34

Post #23 of 37 (1710 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I tend to be for environmentally cleaner sources of power as long as the cost isn't too much. Costing twice as much sounds like a lot, but $1.59 onto a real world monthly bill per customer (if I'm understanding that correctly)? I don't really know if that's enough of a "cost" to deter me from thinking this is a good thing to proceed with.

That and watching all of the super liberal NIMBY's bitch about seeing a 1/2 inch of a windmill on the horizon of the "sacred Nantucket Sound" make me think this was a good decision.

Admittedly, I'm not the most informed on this subject so there may be other economic ramifications of this farm that I am missing.



It is not so much the absolute number, but more the fact that this was sold to the people as a "green" project that would CUT their monthly electricity bills.

Now, suddenly, after approval, the CUT magically turns into an increase.

Sounds a lot like Obama's Doc Fix doesn't it?


Who sold this as being cheaper than fossil fuel electricity? I'm skeptical of your claim. Even the article you linked in the first post said that wasn't the case. Green projects aren't desirable because they lower direct costs to the consumer, but you already know that.
----------------------------------
Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy


chainpin

May 7, 10 12:41

Post #24 of 37 (1703 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [Just Old Again] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I tend to be for environmentally cleaner sources of power as long as the cost isn't too much. Costing twice as much sounds like a lot, but $1.59 onto a real world monthly bill per customer (if I'm understanding that correctly)? I don't really know if that's enough of a "cost" to deter me from thinking this is a good thing to proceed with.

That and watching all of the super liberal NIMBY's bitch about seeing a 1/2 inch of a windmill on the horizon of the "sacred Nantucket Sound" make me think this was a good decision.

Admittedly, I'm not the most informed on this subject so there may be other economic ramifications of this farm that I am missing.



It is not so much the absolute number, but more the fact that this was sold to the people as a "green" project that would CUT their monthly electricity bills.

Now, suddenly, after approval, the CUT magically turns into an increase.

Sounds a lot like Obama's Doc Fix doesn't it?


Who sold this as being cheaper than fossil fuel electricity? I'm skeptical of your claim. Even the article you linked in the first post said that wasn't the case. Green projects aren't desirable because they lower direct costs to the consumer, but you already know that.



Why don't you ask the people who funded this study, oh, wait, that would be...Cape Wind!!

http://www.capewind.org/...rt%20%202-8-2010.pdf

Figure 2 shows CRA’s estimates of difference in the average New England wholesale power prices with and without Cape Wind in service. Over the 25 years covered by the analysis, prices would be an average of $1.22/MWh lower with the project than without. As shown in Figure 3, the effect on wholesale electricity prices is even more pronounced for Southeastern Massachusetts, where the project will be interconnected with the New England grid. The average price reduction for that zone is $1.82/MWh.

Figure 4 shows the expected savings in electricity costs associated with the forecasted reduction in wholesale market prices. The cost savings range between $77 million and $315 million annually, totaling $4.6 billion over the 25 year period.



"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



MJuric

May 7, 10 13:05

Post #25 of 37 (1691 views)
Re: Cape Wind to Be Approved in MA [voiceofreason] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Costing twice as much sounds like a lot, but $1.59 onto a real world monthly bill per customer (if I'm understanding that correctly)? I don't really know if that's enough of a "cost" to deter me from thinking this is a good thing to proceed with.

I don't think the story gives all the numbers. Just as an example this contract might only be 1% of this providers total electrical supply. So no 1.59$ a month doesn't sound like much, but that's the increase for 1% of your total bill. IF this same wind farm provided 100% of the providers electricity then you would have a 159$ a month increase.

Another way to look at it would be this, again these are PFA numbers as I have no idea what the real numbers are.

You're bill is 100$ a month right now. This project increases total supply by 1% and everyone total bill by 1.59$. Had that 1% increase come from historical sources, say another coal plant, your bill would not have changed at all.

Continuing down the same path if this provider continues to bring online these types of sources, as the market grows these more expensive generators become a larger and larger part of the pot. The closer it gets to 100% the closer your bill gets to double it's cost.

~Matt




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