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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt?

 

   


draketriathlon

Mar 23, 10 21:14

Post #1 of 25 (11767 views)
How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? Quote | Reply

I hurt my pcl almost 10 years ago and have been having knee issues the last couple of years. Well last week i went down to miami to do the triathlon and i ended up just swimming and biking. Did another ride tuesday of about 30 miles and since then i have been in an incredible amount of pain. I am on naproxen and vicoding every 12 hours and can still feel my knee. I already have an appointment with my ortho in two weeks for it hurting, possible patella femoral issues, before the race but this is a whole new level of pain.

I don't remember how bad my PCL hurt when i tore it but this ranks just below my ruptured appendix and when i dislocated my clavicle at my sternum. It not as sharp of a pain as either of those two were but its very constant pain, i'd rank it probably at a 7-8 with my appendix and shoulder being a 10.

Anyone have either of those injuries and was it more of a sharp pain or a very dull but still painful feeling?


Grant


Red Devil

Mar 23, 10 21:18

Post #2 of 25 (11763 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

i tore my ACL and MCL playing rugby and I remember hearing Pop ... Pop and then a very intense sharp pain for about a second. It went away fast but then started to swell like a mother.

Granted taping it and trying to finish the match probably didnt help. It hurt like a bitch though
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draketriathlon

Mar 23, 10 21:25

Post #3 of 25 (11757 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [Red Devil] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yeah i have no swelling which is odd, maybe due to the naproxen. There is no real sharp pain and i didn't hear a pop, I'm almost wondering if the ACL was injured when i tore my PCL and its finally given out completely so it was more of a gradual wear. I'm just amazed at how it went from being sore but not bad, with no real pain biking. to intense pain even walking after that 30 mile bike ride a week ago.

Grant


cjaubin

Mar 23, 10 21:53

Post #4 of 25 (11742 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If it was a meniscus tear you would most likely have catching in the knee joint as well. You would be unable to fully extend your knee when sitting in a chair. Both would show with some swelling most likely, especially the acl. patella femoral does sound reasonable. it is more of an overuse problem. the tendon on the outside of the knee (i-t band), gets inflammed from excessive rubbing and causes a lot of pain. It will get worse with increased activity and will need stretching and rest. Physical therapy will help also (the use of modalities-ultrasound, diathermy, e-stim can help with inflammation) if the doctor determines this is the cause. Don't take what I say here as gospel. A thorough exam needs to be done. I had an uncle who had a big i-t band flare up some years ago in the chicago marathon and was limited to walking a lot of the race.


draketriathlon

Mar 23, 10 22:00

Post #5 of 25 (11737 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [cjaubin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I've had ITband problems its definitly not that, there may be some petallar femoral issues. However, i had that problem 18 months ago when they took the MRI looking for a meniscus tear. However that pain was completely different. It was more of a sharp pain and i couldn't walk up or down stairs. This may not be as sharp but hurts considerably more and i can do stairs fine on it, walking on flat surfaces hurts however as in i can't really walk i'm closer to limping.

I'm already planning on getting the PCL fixed because there is hardly any stability left in my right knee, now im just concerned with what else they are going to find.


okaypatrick

Mar 23, 10 22:54

Post #6 of 25 (11729 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Don't think you're going to get definitive answers on ST to figure out what's wrong with your knee..best thing to is to rest the leg, get an MRI, and then get a diagnosis from a real professional (your orthopedic surgeon).
http://www.twitter.com/okaypatrick


draketriathlon

Mar 23, 10 22:58

Post #7 of 25 (11725 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [okaypatrick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I know but i have nothing better to do for the next two weeks till i see him so might as well have fun on ST ;)


Grant


scsq

Mar 23, 10 23:03

Post #8 of 25 (11723 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ACL & Miniscus injury 11 years ago in wakeboard accident. Sharp pain briefly, then swelling and issues of stability until I had surgery 4 weeks later. Had MRI, and two reputable Ortho Surgeons tell me same thing..... Surgery & aggressive therapy - then I should back out on the water in 6-8 months. Today my knee is stronger than ever with no problems other than occasional stiffness in cold weather. Aggressive therapy is key because scar tissue is the enemy!
UOFT


Bob Loblaw

Mar 24, 10 4:40

Post #9 of 25 (11697 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tore my ACL in 05.
some meniscus damage as well.

your ACL itself doesn't have pain receptors, but it's hard not to hurt something else in the process.

but you can try this (if I can explain it properly):
-sit down in a chair, with your injured leg in front of you, bent but elevated (foot dangling);
-have a friend put one hand on the top of the front of your knee, and the other hand behind the top of your calf.
-see if your friend can - slowly - pull your calf towards them. an intact acl will keep this from happening.

lots of things can hurt worse than tearing your acl, and that includes having your acl replaced. i don't think it's what you have. (no pop, no swelling... i had both)
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wiffcheese

Mar 24, 10 5:06

Post #10 of 25 (11684 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My ACL/MCL/medial meniscus actually didn't hurt at all in those specific areas, but the quad muscles....omg. Never felt pain like that in my life. To that end the scar tissue in my quads and connective tissue to over a year to get out fully through insanely vigorous rehab and self massage(insert smart as comment;).

Today my knee is in better shape than when I blew it out, but my synovium lets me know right quick when I overstep the bounds....S W E L L I N G. I take 2 Advil Liquigels a day....6 when I occasionally think I'm 25 years old.


draketriathlon

Mar 24, 10 5:19

Post #11 of 25 (11671 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [Bob Loblaw] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I can actually do Lachmans Test, what you're describing, on my own knee its that loose right now. The problem with doing it is with a PCL injury its hard to differentiate between the sag from the PCL and if its anteriorly displacing a lot. That said when i do do it, it sure looks like its displacing forward. I'm going to our athletic trainer at drake take a look at it when she gets a chance.


Bob Loblaw

Mar 24, 10 6:00

Post #12 of 25 (11660 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [ride2eat] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

you must have torn yours differently than I did. Mine didn't hurt that much.
It wasn't the pain that got me to the hospital, it was the really really loud pop, and the huge amount of swelling.

The pain started when they screwed the new ligamentinto my bones.

It also seemed to me that the lengthy rehab isn't so much about the new ligament, as it is about the drastic weakening of the muscles that occurs post-op.
---------------------------------
"I want to argue the contrary case, employing those reasons that occur to me."
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draketriathlon

Mar 24, 10 16:00

Post #13 of 25 (11554 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [Bob Loblaw] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I went and saw our athletic trainers and the doc today.

The trainers were split on if they were getting a hard end from the ACL doing lachmans. They were confused to because they didn't think the ACL should hurt this much, they were thinking it could be osteocondritis

I ended up going back to my GP and he gave me a toradol shot i can now at least walk on it but it still hurts. I'm also getting an MRI tomorrow or friday so that should hopefully get this figured out. I'm still amazed with how much pain i am in with no actual trama event.


Grant


mmrocker13

Mar 24, 10 16:46

Post #14 of 25 (11528 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Can't say about an ACL tear, as (thank GOD) all my ligaments are still fine. But meniscal tears... mine have never really hurt, per se. Swelling, locking, catching, grinding, yes, yes, yes, and yes. But pain from the tear itself, nothing major. What DOES hurt: exposed bone being whacked. Broken bones. And bone bruises. I have had some bone bruises that brought serious tears to my eyes.

Granted, everyone is different...but with that severe of pain, I'd be thinking broken bone, OCD lesion broken free, exposed bone (missing Articular cartilage), or severe bone bruise.

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draketriathlon

Mar 24, 10 17:45

Post #15 of 25 (11510 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [mmrocker13] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Definitely makes sense and that seems to be what the trainers were saying too that an ACL tear really shouldn't hurt either. I'm more interested on how it happened. I mean at this point what hurt is hurt and i can't change that. Its just really frustration how everything went from kinda sore to hurts like a sob.

ZGrant


ironclm

Mar 24, 10 18:46

Post #16 of 25 (11488 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My torn meniscus never did catch but rather, ached and ached, especially when sitting awhile or lying down. Riding the bike actually made it feel better.

Good luck, whatever it is.

clm

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AutomaticJack

Mar 25, 10 4:15

Post #17 of 25 (11445 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [trackie clm] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
My torn meniscus never did catch but rather, ached and ached, especially when sitting awhile or lying down. Riding the bike actually made it feel better.

Good luck, whatever it is.

clm


Same here. I tore the medial horn in early 2008 and didn't realize it. I just thought I was getting old. Achy knee, occasional pop, etc. What made me finally go to a doctor was the knee just "wasn't there" going down a small hill in a cross country race. I didn't fall down, but I stumbled and that alone made a lot of other things hurt. The doctor said it is not uncommon for an athlete to first complain of weakness in the joint, and then mention the pain.

If the OP is in significant pain there is probably something else going on.


madfuzu

Mar 25, 10 7:14

Post #18 of 25 (11410 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I had arthroscopic surgery on both knees for meniscus issues. The first, about 15yrs ago, was a sharp pain that prevented me from bending my knee beyond a certain point, but only really painful when bent. The second, 10yrs ago, was less painful, and more inhibiting of movement - it wasnt that I couldnt move it, but it felt weak (rather than painful) - like if I pushed it too far, I would do more damage.

In both cases I went to an orthopedic specialist who diagnosed it quickly and the result was a partial removal of the damaged parts of the meniscus, preserving as much as possible. I suspect the amount of pain is related to how much of the damaged meniscus has found its way into a part of the knee where it shouldn't be as the first time (caused by impact) I had detached fragments, whereas the second time I think was just a tear caused (I think) by strain on the joint.

I've had no issues since, and I wondered if (like many body tissues) there's the possibility of regrowth over time. It seems that regrowth of menisci is limited because of the lack of blood supply, but there is apparently a technological development that could be interesting for those with significant meniscus issues (http://www.londonkneeclinic.com/...ion=4&article=21) - I'm afraid I don't know anyone who can vouch for this, though.

Steve


draketriathlon

Mar 25, 10 8:50

Post #19 of 25 (11392 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [AutomaticJack] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Theres a small catch that both the athletic trainers and I could feel when they were moving it around yesterday honestly moving it around hurt enough that i really wasn't paying attention to where it was catching.

Its really interesting that no one had pain from the meniscus or ACLs besides the initial incident. I'm starting to think now that it is a bone/cartilage issue. That would explain why it hurts progressively worse throughout the day but isn't that bad when i wake up. Since the cartilage compresses some throughout the day it may cause more grinding or whatever is going on as the joint compresses some.

They still haven't called yet for the MRI, hopefully i'll still get that today. The toradol definitely did wonders last night the pain was still there but i was able to at least walk without limping all over the place. I got switched off naproxen to celebrex he said that should work better for a NSAID.

Thanks for everyones responses so far.

Grant


draketriathlon

Mar 26, 10 10:04

Post #20 of 25 (11332 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Sadly... this is painfully obvious whats wrong...



Guess I'm going to be out for awhile


newinnycus

Mar 26, 10 12:16

Post #21 of 25 (11294 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ouch. Keep us posted


draketriathlon

Mar 26, 10 12:32

Post #22 of 25 (11285 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [newinnycus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply



thats the same slice of an image from 18 months ago. Really easy to see the difference.


jeepguy2358

Mar 28, 10 7:07

Post #23 of 25 (11211 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Not trying to jack this thread, but I have a similar issue as to what several people have described. I did a 35 mile ride followed by a swim on Monday. Tuesday morning I could not walk, but pain subsided during the day. Did a 5 mile run that evening with zero pain. Wednesday morning, could not walk. During the day, felt a little better, but still hurt. Wednesday even, went to doc. He had a hard time diagnosing the problem because no matter which way he pushed, poked, twisted or turned my leg, he could not simulate he movement that hurt. Took x rays, but showed nothing. I have no swelling, which other people mentioned regarding meniscus issues. The past few days have been the same - a little discomfort in the morning, then the pain goes away during the day unless I am trying to go up stairs (down is fine). It does not hurt to bend or fully flex my leg. Doc said to try rest and NSAID's for a week then reevaluate. No MRI was done due to cost, but if the pain has not subsided, that is next in conjunction with cortizone. I am supposed to begin my IM training April 12. The pain is located about 1/2 way down patella tendon, then 1 1/2 inches to the left (lateral side of left leg). Again, sorry to kind of jack the thread. I am just totally freaking out right now!


draketriathlon

Mar 28, 10 9:09

Post #24 of 25 (11190 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [jeepguy2358] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That sounds more like patellar tendonitis but may be IT band depending on how lateral it is. Which is basically cured with rest and then some more rest.


jeepguy2358

Mar 28, 10 10:33

Post #25 of 25 (11173 views)
Re: How bad does a meniscus or ACL tear hurt? [draketriathlon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the reply. I think it is a little too low and too far to the center for it to be IT Band, but it is close (according to my sports doc). He was able to show me the IT Band insertion and the pain is right between that and the pt which is why he was thinking outer meniscus - which as you recommended is rest and more rest. The only thing, is there is absolutely no visible swelling (which is why he is slightly confused) He said with most meniscus injuries, there is some swelling or there was some kind of move that could have triggered it. As my wife asked me - "so you were fine one day but woke up the next and couldn't walk?" My answer was yes! How strange.

   
 
 
 



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