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Zipp 404 clincher question...

 

   


bushpilot

Feb 9, 09 13:52

Post #1 of 25 (4420 views)
Zipp 404 clincher question... Quote | Reply

I`m trying to install a Michelin Pro Race 3 on a Zipp 404 and I pinched 2 tubes so far...

Is there`s an ¨easier to install¨ tire for those wheels?

Thanks

jf


jackmott

Feb 9, 09 13:55

Post #2 of 25 (4413 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

the pro race will be easier after the first install or two


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grimpeur

Feb 9, 09 14:00

Post #3 of 25 (4402 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If the rim strip is to thick or wide, the tire won't seat properly causing a pinch. Try using a thinner strip, maybe cloth.


BK

Feb 9, 09 14:05

Post #4 of 25 (4390 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think it's worth the hassle. I love Pro Race tires but they truly are a tough install on most wheels when new(especially my 404's). Do a search and you'll see lots of similar threads.

If they go easier on another set of wheels, you could put them on, inflate and let them stretch for a day or two - they'll be much easier after that Also, if you put them in the dryer for a few minutes before installing it seems to help a little. Unlike many tires, I typically have to use a tire iron with a new set of Michellins but I try to minimize how much I use it and try to be extra careful of that tube. They do take me longer than most tires but once they're on, I love them and they'll be fine if you need to take them off again later.

So powder your tube, get yourself psyched up with some rockin music and get those babies on there ;-)


stal

Feb 9, 09 14:07

Post #5 of 25 (4388 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The size of the rim strip has absolutely no effect on the ease of tire installation, so don't waste your time/money changing it. What matters is the diameter of the outermost portion of the rim and the diameter of the tire bead.

I have found that zipps are bigger than some rims, and Michelin Pro3's are a bit smaller than some other tire beads. Bad combo (installation wise). Great combo for actual bike speed...but i digress.


Tips to mount:

Have strong thumbs and an iron will
Use this: http://coachlevi.com/...easy-hand-bike-tool/
Throw your tires in the drier for a few minutes (never had to do this)
And to actually answer your question...buy a different tire: I found that specialized foldable tires are pretty 'big'


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J\V

Feb 9, 09 14:58

Post #6 of 25 (4342 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In case you haven't seen Michelin's (excellent) suggestions for mounting tubed tires, see this link:

http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/...?event=mounting.view

People often overlook the fact that the area of the tire near the valve should go last, contrary to what many believe. This is because if you mount the valve area first, both sides of the tire bead physically cannot sit all the way down inside the rime as it can on the opposite side, making it significantly tighter to mount (for similar reasons, a relatively thick rim strip can indeed cause a tire to be more difficult to mount).

If you don't mount your tires this way, try it. I can almost always get it by hand, no tire levers involved, including the new pair of Pro Race 3's I just installed on my 808s last week.


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PeaTearGriffin

Feb 9, 09 15:04

Post #7 of 25 (4333 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I have found that zipps are bigger than some rims, and Michelin Pro3's are a bit smaller than some other tire beads. Bad combo (installation wise). Great combo for actual bike speed...but i digress.

This is very true. I can mount virtually any tire on my Ksyriums with minimal effort. On my old 303's and now 404's it is definitely a lot more effort.
Finishing at the valve does make it easier, and if you have to cheat using tire levers be very careful not to pinch the tube.


stal

Feb 9, 09 15:07

Post #8 of 25 (4331 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [J\V] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

good tip, I forgot to mention that.

and you sir...must have the strongest thumbs in the world.


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Bana

Feb 9, 09 15:12

Post #9 of 25 (4325 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [J\V] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I have always been under the impression that you mount the part of the tire at the stem first in order to avoid pinching the tube where it is is the least flexible in terms of its placement in the tire cavity.

Do you ever get any pinch flats at the stem with your method?


stal

Feb 9, 09 15:15

Post #10 of 25 (4317 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Bana] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

i was under that impression too. However when you think about it (or at least when I thought about it after reading the michelin stuff) the valve stem actually keeps the tube in while you're getting that last bit of bead over the tire. The tube is in there and ain't going to get between the rim/bead... thus you shouldn't really get pinch flats if you leave the bead near the valvestem for last.


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J\V

Feb 9, 09 15:16

Post #11 of 25 (4316 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Bana] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I have always been under the impression that you mount the part of the tire at the stem first in order to avoid pinching the tube where it is is the least flexible in terms of its placement in the tire cavity.

Do you ever get any pinch flats at the stem with your method?
Nope, not yet.


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My $0.02 in a world where pennies are obsolete...


Bana

Feb 9, 09 15:26

Post #12 of 25 (4304 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That is a good call. I am def. going to try this method next tube change. Worth a try if it is easier!


nealhe

Feb 9, 09 21:59

Post #13 of 25 (4215 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hello Bushpilot and All,

http://veloplug.com/

Easier tire mounting and save yourself a few grams too.

Cheers,

Neal
Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster


Thom

Feb 10, 09 4:08

Post #14 of 25 (4159 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
The size of the rim strip has absolutely no effect on the ease of tire installation, so don't waste your time/money changing it.

I have to disagree here. When you are trying get the last section of the tire on, it is important to have the beads on the opposite side of the tire together and down inside the rim. The thinner the rim strip, the further the beads fit inside the rim. It gives you a little more room to work with. It can make all the difference in the world. I had to resort to a thin rim strip to get a Conti trainer tire on.

TCW


GregX

Feb 10, 09 4:44

Post #15 of 25 (4143 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [J\V] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

good link, thanks.




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GregX

Feb 10, 09 4:46

Post #16 of 25 (4139 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

there is yet another trick: eliminate any rim strip and use some veloplugs for the spoke holes:

http://store.tri-sports.com/veve.html




Where would you want to swim ?


Chris G

Feb 10, 09 6:40

Post #17 of 25 (4083 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

PR3's really are not the best tire for a 404 anyhow. Buy the zipp ones. Better rr, easier to mount and a better aero profile for the rim. If you want cheaper try the evo corsa's in 21 mm size which are basically the same.

If you want to use them buy some beefy tire levers, those new pedro's ones that come in sets of 2 work great.


stal

Feb 10, 09 7:01

Post #18 of 25 (4065 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Thom] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'd have to disagree with you too! :)

When you're putting the second tirebead over the rim the position of the opposite (first) tire bead has no effect. Actually, if the whole tire is at an angle so that the bead sits 'inside the rim' then the bottom of second bead is further away from the rim-wall you're trying to push it over, making it even more difficult. AND, if the first bead is 'inside the rim' then the tube is probably wayyy to close to the rim-wall you're stretching the tire over and you're running more of a risk of pinch flatting the tube.

In regards to your note 'when trying to get the last section of the tire on', I suggest you read the Michelin guide linked above. If you do the valve stem area last the problem takes care of itself.

If you just want to spend money on velo-plugs or rim-tape that's cool too, I think that velox looks ugly anyways.


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Deej

Feb 10, 09 7:35

Post #19 of 25 (4039 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [J\V] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I ran into this issue mounting my Conti GP 4000's too, but I've always mounted the 'second' bead at the valve stem first and the opposite side last because I thought it would seat the bead better at the valve as you pull the opposite side on. Now I know better, have to try the 'Michelin way'.

Head down, thumbs up, give'r


remnfa

Feb 10, 09 7:50

Post #20 of 25 (4020 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Thom] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
Quote:
The size of the rim strip has absolutely no effect on the ease of tire installation, so don't waste your time/money changing it.

I have to disagree here. When you are trying get the last section of the tire on, it is important to have the beads on the opposite side of the tire together and down inside the rim. The thinner the rim strip, the further the beads fit inside the rim. It gives you a little more room to work with. It can make all the difference in the world. I had to resort to a thin rim strip to get a Conti trainer tire on.

TCW
x2
I've used Rox tape before on tight rims. Works well.


"Can’t I just start alone? I don’t need a team. All I need is a mechanic and a car!"-Jens Voight http://velonews.competitor.com/...lgem-and-more_108891 "


Thom

Feb 10, 09 7:55

Post #21 of 25 (4010 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Maybe I didn't explain it well, but when you said, "the whole tire is at an angle", you lost me. Try putting 2-3 layers of Velox on a rim and then tell me the thickness doesn't matter.

The Michelin site says, "Make sure the bead is working into the drop center of the rim to ease mounting". That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thinner tape makes the "drop center of the rim" deeper, which eases mounting even further.

Thom


Raptor

Feb 10, 09 8:04

Post #22 of 25 (4001 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [stal] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
...I have found that zipps are bigger than some rims, ...

But not bigger than Campagnolo rims which are horrible.

To the OP, do what I did, take it to your local LBS.

For two wheels they charged $6 each and considering they pinch the tubes at first also, it was a good deal.


J\V

Feb 10, 09 9:04

Post #23 of 25 (3958 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Raptor] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If your LBS pinched the tubes, I'm not sure I'd use that shop for anything more complex than changing a tire.


__________________________________________________
My $0.02 in a world where pennies are obsolete...


Biotechblues

Feb 10, 09 12:46

Post #24 of 25 (3887 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [bushpilot] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I've been using 404's since '03, 2 different sets. The rims are large and certain tires are tight creating the challenge you've posted. Continentals are also very difficult to mount. The issue is not only in your pre-race set up but if you flat on the course you will give up alot of time in race conditions trying to switch out a new tube.

Try Vittoria's Rubino's or Corsa's.

Also try coating the tube in baby powder prior to installation, will allow to slide versus stick and get pinched.


bushpilot

Feb 10, 09 13:04

Post #25 of 25 (3873 views)
Re: Zipp 404 clincher question... [Biotechblues] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I used the ¨Michelin technique¨(!) to mount o Pro 3 without any trouble...I finish with the valve and it works great!


Thanks everybody,

jeff

   
 
 
 



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