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400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge

 
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devashish_paul

Nov 1, 08 13:51

Post #351 of 374 (5106 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [Murphy'sLaw] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
It is a mystery that you can run off the bike so well in long races on the Steve Larsen program, in that your hours are low (albeit quite hard).

Today's 10K was 37:43. Opening K was 3:30 and then settled into a more sane pace. Came through 5K at 18:25 and I'm thinking "OK, today I can go sub 37 with a 10 second fade and a hard push." The first 5K actually felt reasonably easy, compared to last week's race, but it was only 2 degrees C and the wind started really kicking up on the second half and there were zero competitors to draft off (first loop had 5K guys)....so I was hung out to dry doing an ITT in the wind and faded over 1:20. The good news is that I faded no worse than the guys who beat me. Just checked the results and I was 5th overall and 2nd in 40-49:

http://www.ncra-ottawa.com/...=41&client_id=31

It was actually a much better run than the results bare out. The wind was really tough in the second half. i was much happier with today's 10K than last week's even though it was barely 13 second faster.

OK...onto the 400m and also let's see how close I can get to 5 min mile next week at the track. Big project for next year is to lose a few lbs and see if I can get the half marathon below 1:20 and 10K to 36:30. This is more fun than shuffling at Dev Pace (10 min per mile) in IM's.

Dev


rocklinwoody

Nov 1, 08 22:22

Post #352 of 374 (5060 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Hey Dev, nice race. Way to hang in there in a cold, windy, lonely race. Just shy of your goal too.

Just did the 400 and let me tell you.....you suck. :) I picked the wrong day to do this. I was tired (the last 2 weeks have had too many hard days and a recovery from 1/2 marathon) and it is finally raining in California. In fact, it poured during the whole workout. I don't like being wet and cold. It is my kryptonite. The plan today was 8 x 800 at 8k pace with 1 minute active jog between each interval. Afterwards I would give the 400 a go. Each interval was right on pace and I was recovering instantly. But I was getting tired of the rain. I finally decided after 6 intervals that if I broke the 70 mark I would cool down. If I could not break 70 I would finish the workout. I did an extra 200 recovery and lined up. Damn I was nervous. Should I set a countdown timer at 35 for the 200? Nope. Ready set go. Off I went, after the corner I was thinking this sucks. It started lengthening my stride down the back stretch. As I arrived at the 200 I was afraid to look at my watch. Would it say 37? Nope, 34. Ok, I just have to hang in there for another 200. Around the bend. I started to tighten up as I came down the stretch. I wasn't going to make it and would I ruin my 30K next week. I told myself just to relax and run through the finish. I picked it back up. Don't look at the watch. Only 20 strides left. Just get it over with. Through the line. The watch read 68. THere you go Dev. THe weight of your expectations almost broke me.

Good Luck in your attempt.

-Woody


ericstevens73

Nov 1, 08 23:05

Post #353 of 374 (5051 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [rocklinwoody] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I run a 4.32 40, a 50 flat 400 (albeit the world gets dark and cold over the last 25M), but I average an 8:00 - 8:30 mile in races over 6 miles. Sprinter in high school and college - could never go long distance. Coach made me run the 800 twice, both times I chucked after the race! Don't know why I got into this sport, if not just to try to kill myself slowly (better than smoking, you don't stink, and you look good doing it). I'm trying to find a coach to assist with the distance training! I don't have a way to test power on the bike, but I'm sure it's LOW!!!


devashish_paul

Nov 2, 08 4:53

Post #354 of 374 (5037 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [rocklinwoody] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
"don't like being wet and cold. It is my kryptonite".

Thru 10 hours and 37 minutes of continuous rain, during which 3 inches of the liquid stuff fell, this is what I was thinking! I have to say, I had much mor fun over the 10 K's from the last 2 weekends than the 2 IMs I did this summer (what was I thinking anyway????)

...congrats on the 400's and please do keep in mind that if you did not do those 800's in advance, it would be a different picture, but I guess my point is that even for 1:13 half marathoner, in his 40's a 70 second 400 is no cakewalk. Tomorrow I get on the flt to Beijing and I will have the track next door to my hotel for Wed-Thu-Fri-Sat-Sun morning, so sometime in there, I hope to both give the 400m and the mile multiple shots and report back.

Hey, maybe we should open a thread for the "ST virtual mile smackdown"....what do you think....there are enough challenges that involve distance, but the mile would be a good change of pace....this should be right up your alley with the training you have been doing.

Dev

cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013


phil combs

Nov 5, 08 5:55

Post #355 of 374 (4990 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I swore that I wouldn't do this (why risk pulling a hamstring in November?) but I was doing my Tuesday slow run, I went past the track, I had my watch on, I was just going to jog a lap, I surged a couple of times, I felt pretty strong, and you know what happened next . . . ):

71--First 400 in 24 years. Felt good the whole time (sure sign you are loafing in a 400!!!!)
69.1--17 seconds slower than my PR but I'm ok with that. If I did some speed work could probably get down in the low 60s. I couldn't break a minute if my life depended on it.

As this thread has drifted along, I think everyone has lost sight of it's two points: (1) It's a lot easier to have "virtual" results rather than actual timed performance; and (2) the accomplishments of elite athletes are astonishing.

I really enjoyed this test. And as I did my recovery jog I thought about the fact that an athlete nuked out 105 of those in a row and it was a humbling thought. Thanks for starting this thread. BTW, I was wearing compression socks.


uli

Nov 5, 08 6:09

Post #356 of 374 (4980 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
69.1--17 seconds slower than my PR but I'm ok with that. If I did some speed work could probably get down in the low 60s.

Approved.
However, given the second sentence quoted above, it was a close call! :)
_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK


phil combs

Nov 5, 08 6:27

Post #357 of 374 (4971 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [uli] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Close call or not on the gratuitous posing regarding my projected, possible, anticipated virtual Masters PR, did the test and broke 70 seconds. That's what's great about track--no style points.

Now, on that other matter. I bet you one beer that I run a 63 second 400 by June 2009 as I am going to actually do speed work this Spring. (I know 63 seconds isn't really low 60s but for God's sake I'm 42 years old).


jlafren42

Nov 5, 08 6:52

Post #358 of 374 (4962 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
you st.com folks ever hear of athlinks.com? check it out if you haven't. it a database of race results consolidated into 1 location for road races/triathlons/etc... over the last 10+ years type in your own name in the athlete search field and voila. You may show up several times usually because you race in different states etc... however if yo register you can claim all the various separate profiles and consolidate them into 1 profile, pretty cool.
no threads like this site, just basically a myspace for athletes that includes all your race results and links to official results etc..
John



uli

Nov 5, 08 7:46

Post #359 of 374 (4941 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Are you anywhere close to NYC? We should race.
_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK


phil combs

Nov 5, 08 8:10

Post #360 of 374 (4933 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [uli] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
You would crush me like a bug!

You just ran a 2:3x NYC marathon!!!! I'm a 42 year old guy that woke up two years ago and said I am really, really fat; lost 50 pounds; started doing sprint and olympic triathlons; am thrilled to be participating in a fun sport that allows you to cross-train to your heart's content; and am glad that I am still able to break 70 seconds in a 400 even if it is only by "1" second.

So I concede defeat right now.

However, I am in NY frequently on business (midtown) and would love to run anytime but doubt that I am fast enough to keep up with you on even your slowest pace days.

Phil


drtommy

Nov 5, 08 8:12

Post #361 of 374 (4933 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
"Hey, maybe we should open a thread for the "ST virtual mile smackdown"....what do you think....there are enough challenges that involve distance, but the mile would be a good change of pace....this should be right up your alley with the training you have been doing."

Dev, I'd be down with the 1 mile smackdown and so would the rest of "teambigdeal" My last track session 8 days before FL was 10x400 on 2min...went 1:20's on all of them except #7 was 1:10. I had actually wondered if I could do 4 in a row. It would be fun to try. We have an indoor track here now thanks to Graham Fraser so it would be a fun winter project. Can we wait till the ski season is in full swing??? That would make it easier on the lungs :)

http://teambigdeal.blogspot.com/

Tom

ps can you tell I'm bored with the off season already???


uli

Nov 5, 08 8:35

Post #362 of 374 (4914 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [drtommy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
You are _that_ slow? Cool. I always wanted to beat a 8:0X Ironman.
Let me know where you race that fuckin' mile and I hop on the plane.
_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK


uli

Nov 5, 08 8:37

Post #363 of 374 (4913 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
However, I am in NY frequently on business (midtown) and would love to run anytime but doubt that I am fast enough to keep up with you on even your slowest pace days.

Phil
Cool, let's do that. I work in midtown. As long as you can hold an 8 min pace for an hour, we should do a lunch run. Just give me two more weeks to recover. :)
_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK


rocklinwoody

Nov 7, 08 7:15

Post #364 of 374 (4869 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Dev, what is the word on the 400 time?


Runcasey

Nov 7, 08 11:21

Post #365 of 374 (4848 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Don't you see what he has done? All this talk about a sub :70 has gotten you all back to the track where true speed is born. As I stated before, sub :70 is good, real speed is south of :60 but for us triathletes multiple repeats on the 400 is what's needed to bring your times down. I'll start another thread and ask what the over 40 group is running for 400 repeat workouts?


devashish_paul

Nov 8, 08 0:19

Post #366 of 374 (4815 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [Runcasey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
OK, guys, I know, I am lame....I gave it a go at the track in Beijing the past few days and although I was with heavy training shoes, my best time was only 76 seconds. The smog was pretty bad today and my lungs were not liking it.

I have 2 more weeks on this business trip in China and India and frankly running is my only form of daily exercise, so I am bowing out as I don't want to blow a body part going any faster. I really think that I could do no better than 73 if everything was perfect and I had light shoes on....so ergo, I cannot even keep up with Geb for 400 meters.

The good thing is that I was at the track everyday this week as it is next door to my hotel doing a daily dosage of 100/200/400/800/1600's where my typical 400m pace was 80-90 seconds per lap. Each day, I did around 5K worth of speed at this pace over the course of 60-75 minute runs. Frankly I think that if I could enter a 10K in the near future, I could take it to 36.xx with the recent focus on trying to bring down my 400m time. Alas, there is no chance to do a 10K till spring, so it is what it is!

Anyway it was fun trying

cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013


devashish_paul

Nov 8, 08 0:39

Post #367 of 374 (4811 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [drtommy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Dr. Tommy...I'll open the "one mile virtual smackdown thread". The rules will be you can post your best time over the next year....so the "time expiration will be Nov 8 2009". Are you cool with that? Do you think you can keep up with Geb for 1 whole mile with or without compression socks, with or without Ray Bans and compression headband? We have no attire limitations!

I'm looking forward to getting on my roller skis when I get home and then back on snow.

Dev


renorider

May 28, 09 8:21

Post #368 of 374 (4526 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Well, I'm young-ish and fit-ish but was never a "runner..."
Went to the track a few days ago to begin working towards a personal goal of a sub-5 mile. Upon arrival at the track, summoned iPhone for McMillan's calculator (I'm not much on advance research). 5:00 mile equates to a 61" 400? Uh oh...pretty sure that 75" is a good clip for me.
Perfect temp but enough wind to make the 2nd and 3rd 100m awfully tough, but at least had a tailwind for the home stretch.
Warmed up a bit, stretched more, and eased into 4x400.

#1 - 84", nice 'n easy
#2 - 75", working but smooth
#3 - 71", hard
#4 - 69", OUCH

Don't know if I would've kept going if I hadn't made the grade. I know that 69" is AGES slower than 61", so I'm far more confident about a sub-5 mile than I am about a 61" 400...hey, I'm no sprinter! ;) More than anything, astounded that those guys hold that pace for 2 hours.
____
Eliot
blog thing


jackmott

May 28, 09 8:23

Post #369 of 374 (4523 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [renorider] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
i bet you could do the 61 if you hadn't done the 75 and 71 just before =)

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


devashish_paul

May 28, 09 9:29

Post #370 of 374 (4466 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
When is the next day when "everyone's FTP on ST is 400W".

Can it be on June 4th as I am racing Murphy's Law up Whiteface Mountain outside Lake Placid that day

cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013


(This post was edited by devashish_paul on May 28, 09 9:30)


jackmott

Oct 4, 11 16:20

Post #371 of 374 (3046 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I'm working on a new PB in the 400. My old PB was 61 seconds, with a fresh run

I did my first day of speedwork since like 2009 6 days ago, today was the 2nd day

400m in
78 seconds 2 min rest
77 seconds 2 min rest
78 seconds 2 min rest
80 seconds 2 min rest
78 seconds 4 min rest
69 seconds

Maybe in a week or two I'll try for sub 60 fresh

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


ZackCapets

Oct 4, 11 16:44

Post #372 of 374 (2997 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Have been doing repeats of 400's at 73 sec with 200m jog recovery, 800's at 2:25 with 400m jog. Sub 70 should be no problem. I could prolly get it on the GoPro if there are some sort of evidence requirements on this thread...

I ran 60 flat for the 400 back in 7th grade. I'd like to see if I'm any faster now than I was then. The 400 is a painful freakin race. Between that and the 800 I hated racing on the track enough that I quit doing the track events and started trying to do shotput and discus. As a little 120lb white kid, shotput was not my Forte, but it was a lot more fun than running 4's and 8's which just plain hurt.

My family is full of a bunch of short distance athletes masquerading as endurance athletes. My littlest brother (Sr in HS) runs a 19:00 5k, but a 00:55 for the 400. The next youngest brother swam a 5:15 in 500 free, but a 21.9 in the 50. It's the odd mixture of genetics--my dad swam the 200 fly, 400IM and 500 free in college, and my mom is a runner.
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devashish_paul

Oct 4, 11 17:49

Post #373 of 374 (2913 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Jack....I can't believe you bumped this ancient thread!

I think the best way to get your 400m time down is not with 400m repeats but with 50, 100m and 200m repeats. You probably need to get your flying 100m time (second 100m of a 200m) down to a high 13.xx or very low 14.xx and you're in the ballpark. You already have plenty of endurance so that's not the issue on your 400m time.

Interesting that you bring this up, because I was just talking to my friends about how the Berlin marathon time is is now basically 70 second 400m pace or 17.5 seconds per 100m. I went to the local soccer field and did not even break 18 seconds for 100m, but just coming back from a major accident, I think I can take 1 second off that 100m time....add spikes and a proper track and maybe another second.....but up in 45-49, likely not much more. I don't think I will ever do a single sub 70 second 400m again. My best time from 2008 which is probably on this thread somewhere was only 77 seconds if I recall correctly. In high school it was a really really bad day if I went slower than 58! (not like this is anything to write home about, it just shows that I'm over 20 seconds slower now)

PS....edited....I see I broke 77 seconds (it was 76 in 2008)....

cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013


(This post was edited by devashish_paul on Oct 4, 11 17:54)


jackmott

Oct 4, 11 18:24

Post #374 of 374 (2860 views)
Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I did do some 100 repeats last week. This week I was still sore from last week, and was quad-cramping on that 69 second 400.

So I opted out of the 100 repeats afterwards

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

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