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Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds
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Lazy Ben
May 13, 08 15:24
Post #1 of 414
(7884 views)
Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds
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So someone sent me this link to a discussion about a crash seemingly caused by some guy using powercranks in a road race:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/.../u
]
Regardless of the merits or lack thereof of powercranks as a training tool, or even racing a tri with them, I can't believe anybody thought this would be a good idea...
[/size]
Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF
(This post was
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by Lazy Ben on May 13, 08 16:12)
styrrell
May 13, 08 16:06
Post #2 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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I'm not so sure you can blame the PC. I wouldn't want to ride them in a race (or probably at all), but how hard is it to lift the inside leg on a turn. To my mind if PC cause the crash the rider of the PC is moronic and unskilled enough to crash no matter what. Heck I saw a guy try to remove a jacket in a race after it warmed up. Problem was he was weariung a camelbak over the jacket. Should camelbaks be banned?
Styrrell
Styrrell
Katy
May 13, 08 16:10
Post #3 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [styrrell]
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Other riders saw him descending with both cranks down. He would not be able to do so with normal cranks.
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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax
Carl Spackler
May 13, 08 16:14
Post #4 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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While I'm not a fan of PCs it's a bit laughable for someone to claim they caused a wreck - the rider is the one who did that (in this case). A teammate was in that E4 race and said it was a huge pileup from poor bike handling. I was in the E3 and near the end there were quite a few instances where the field compressed on the short rollers. It's just enough to slow the front of the field down but there's a delayed reaction for the back in the draft.
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walnutcreek tri
May 13, 08 16:14
Post #5 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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As someone who has ridden powercranks on a road bike, I don't see a problem with cornering. The big problem I see (had) was that if there was a bump or pothole in the road that could not be avoided, you can not jump it. You've got to take the blow head on because with normal cranks you'd put the cranks in the 9 and 3 position and pull up (bunny hop). With PC's, there is no pulling up the cranks enough to lift the bike. You can get the front wheel up but the back wheel sticks to the pavement. This can create a problem.....especially on your crotch.
I would never consider racing with them, road or otherwise. I think tight group riding is iffy.
Carl Spackler
May 13, 08 16:16
Post #6 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Katy]
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Both cranks down at the same time? That seems impossible.
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Lazy Ben
May 13, 08 16:16
Post #7 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [styrrell]
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I've never ridden PCs on the road so I'm not 100% sure on this but it must be considerably harder to shift your weight around when using them which would not be a good thing in a tight pack at full speed. I agree with you about still being able to lift the inside leg in a corner, assuming that the rider is conscious of the need to do this and not exhausted.
I don't think camelbaks should be allowed in road races either (no need for them for starters).
It would be nice if we could ban idiots but apparently that's not the other type of PC...
Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF
Lazy Ben
May 13, 08 16:18
Post #8 of 414
(7772 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Carl Spackler]
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Er, you know what powercranks are right?
Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF
t-t-n
May 13, 08 16:33
Post #9 of 414
(7735 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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i have used and dug my PC's for 6 years now - i think using them in a roadrace would be insane.
triguy42
May 13, 08 16:56
Post #10 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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In Reply To:
Er, you know what powercranks are right?
Apparently not.
Charter Member -
HED Mafia
trackie clm
May 13, 08 16:57
Post #11 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Carl Spackler]
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>>A teammate was in that E4 race and said it was a huge pileup from poor bike handling.<<
That was probably the first crash on Papa Bear (where our teammate went off in the amublance). The other supposed-PC-caused crash was on the last hill near the finish (which took out another of our teammates).
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm
Frank Day
May 13, 08 17:00
Post #12 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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In Reply To:
So someone sent me this link to a discussion about a crash seemingly caused by some guy using powercranks in a road race:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/.../u]
Regardless of the merits or lack thereof of powercranks as a training tool, or even racing a tri with them, I can't believe anybody thought this would be a good idea...
Hey, PowerCranks "caused" a crash in the Giro today. Nick Nuyens pulled out of his pedal in a bunch sprint at the end. He probably wouldn't have done that if he was not PC trained. Of course, if he were not PC trained he may not have been in that bunch sprint.
PC's are legal to race on (except for track events). Most choose not to but they are legal. It is up to the rider to ride safely and to the other riders to also ride safely, which means they shouldn't be distracted by what is on the others bicycle or how they are riding.
--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Lazy Ben
May 13, 08 17:10
Post #13 of 414
(7660 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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Well, at least as he didn't win you won't have to produce a limited edition commemorative pink version :)
I'm not attempting to bash PCs here, it just doesn't sound like the wisest place to use them to me. I suspect that if any pros started turning up at major races with them the UCI would change the rules pretty quickly.
It's also easier said than done to ignore a squirrely rider, I'm not sure that ignoring them would qualify as safe riding unless you've dropped them and are off up the road at a safe distance.
Out of curiosity, would you use PCs in a crit or other road race?
Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF
Frank Day
May 13, 08 17:14
Post #14 of 414
(7652 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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In Reply To:
So someone sent me this link to a discussion about a crash seemingly caused by some guy using powercranks in a road race:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/.../u]
Regardless of the merits or lack thereof of powercranks as a training tool, or even racing a tri with them, I can't believe anybody thought this would be a good idea...
Here is what an observer wrote in that thread about the incident: " Actually, he *did* crash.
Or at least somebody racing power cranks did, right at the base of Papa Bear on what I think was the final lap. Took a decent group of guys down with him, too. After sorting out of the wreckage, he started riding again & before the feed zone (where I was) his front tire blew, which sent him swerving across the lane where he nearly took out the closest guy to him (who wasn't very close).
On his walk up to the line he stopped in the feed zone to blame his teammate for crossing his front wheel and "taking him out", and had absolutely no clue that the people commenting on the power cranks weren't excited about them like he was."
Perhaps someone could clue me in as to how the PC's caused this crash? Maybe we should ban pneumatic tires, since that failure also almost caused a crash, or only ban pneumatic tires when they are on PowerCranks bikes.
--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Lazy Ben
May 13, 08 17:25
Post #15 of 414
(7629 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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I freely admit that PCs may have nothing at all to do with this crash. I doubt it can be proved either way.
However, the tire thing is a red herring. That failure was likely a result of the prior crash and furthermore there isn't a freely available better alternative. I would argue that there is a better alternative to powercranks
for road races
and that is regular cranks.
I would also add that people who crash aren't always the best at admitting to their mistakes so take his comments with a pinch of salt.
You avoided my question as to whether you think it's a good idea to use PCs in road races. Judging from the comments here it would seem that your customers don't see that as a good use for them.
Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF
cerveloguy
May 13, 08 18:26
Post #16 of 414
(7557 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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"Perhaps someone could clue me in as to how the PC's caused this crash?"
Frank, where the f*ck is your common sense? Or are you just that much of a salesman? You make these things. The least you could do is put something like "not recommended for racing" in the instruction booklet. Maybe they really are a legitimate training tool, but for racing???? C'mon and own up. This guy was a jackass to be racing with PC's.
Frank Day
May 13, 08 18:28
Post #17 of 414
(7553 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Lazy Ben]
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In Reply To:
I freely admit that PCs may have nothing at all to do with this crash. I doubt it can be proved either way.
However, the tire thing is a red herring. That failure was likely a result of the prior crash and furthermore there isn't a freely available better alternative. I would argue that there is a better alternative to powercranks
for road races
and that is regular cranks.
I would also add that people who crash aren't always the best at admitting to their mistakes so take his comments with a pinch of salt.
You avoided my question as to whether you think it's a good idea to use PCs in road races. Judging from the comments here it would seem that your customers don't see that as a good use for them.
Actually, I think it should be up to the user to decide whether they are safe enough to use them in road races or not. I know of many people who have raced on them and have won racing on them in both road races and criteriums. I understand S. Whitfield raced on them last winter in some cyclocross races. Would you ban them there also? Most customers do not race on them and would not race on them. That is their choice. But, others have decided to and are happy with the decision.
Being race ready on PC's is nothing more than a skill and confidence thing. When you are good enough, you are good enough. Most people who would want to race on PC's in mass start type races would know when they are ready and when they are not. I suspect most of them have spent many hours in large group rides with them without incident before deciding to do so.
Since they have been raced successfully by some for many years without problems, unless there is real evidence that they are dangerous it seems that such "blaming" and efforts to "ban them" because of a single incident come from fear of the unknown by those unfamiliar with them.
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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
trackie clm
May 13, 08 18:39
Post #18 of 414
(7529 views)
Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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>>Since they have been raced successfully by some for many years without problems,<<
By who? And in what sort of race (RR, crit, tri? Cat. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, pro?)
This was a Cat. 4 race. No way should any of them been racing on PCs.
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm
Frank Day
May 13, 08 18:52
Post #19 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [ironclm]
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>>Since they have been raced successfully by some for many years without problems,<<
By who? And in what sort of race (RR, crit, tri? Cat. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, pro?)
This was a Cat. 4 race. No way should any of them been racing on PCs.
clm
I think pretty much all of those have been done, although maybe not at the pro level, except for tri. As I stated before, S. Whitfield told us he raced a cyclocross race on them. It has been unusual for people to race on them but it has been done multiple times safely.
Being safe on PC's is simply an experience thing. All Cat 4's are relatively inexperienced when it comes to racing. PC's would not necessarily make someone less safe, IMHO.
Andrew tells me that the fellow involved in this race, Bobby Escay, said that a couple of the people who were in the group complaining about the PC's were dropped on the first lap. He also told Andrew it was his teammate who crossed his wheel swerving out to pass without accelerating first. It was a Cat 4 mistake most likely, but not due to the use of PC's.
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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
(This post was
edited
by Frank Day on May 13, 08 19:03)
Frank Day
May 13, 08 19:03
Post #20 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [ironclm]
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>>Since they have been raced successfully by some for many years without problems,<<
By who? And in what sort of race (RR, crit, tri? Cat. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, pro?)
This was a Cat. 4 race. No way should any of them been racing on PCs.
clm
Let me add one more thing. Earlier this year we interviewed Bobby (it is available on the web page) and after it was over he came back and commented that one of the biggest improvements he had seen since getting the PC's is in his bike handling skills. Unfortunately, I did not get that on tape.
PC's make people better cyclists. They quiet their upper body and give them smoother speed control. It is silly to think that PC's, by themselves, are dangerous to those who have adapted to them and to those around those who have adapted to them.
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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
House
May 13, 08 19:55
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
So someone sent me this link to a discussion about a crash seemingly caused by some guy using powercranks in a road race:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/.../u]
Regardless of the merits or lack thereof of powercranks as a training tool, or even racing a tri with them, I can't believe anybody thought this would be a good idea...
Hey, PowerCranks "caused" a crash in the Giro today. Nick Nuyens pulled out of his pedal in a bunch sprint at the end. He probably wouldn't have done that if he was not PC trained. Of course, if he were not PC trained he may not have been in that bunch sprint.
PC's are legal to race on (except for track events). Most choose not to but they are legal. It is up to the rider to ride safely and to the other riders to also ride safely, which means they shouldn't be distracted by what is on the others bicycle or how they are riding.
Yes, Nuyens is the only rider ever to pull out of his pedal in a sprint *rolling eyes* Hell, I did it and the closest I have come to using your product is offering to be a subject for you and you refusing. No matter since after reading your posts on here I wouldn't use them anyway since you are so freaking annoying.
______________________________________________________
Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.
brandonecpt
May 13, 08 20:05
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [Frank Day]
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In Reply To:
>>Since they have been raced successfully by some for many years without problems,<<
By who? And in what sort of race (RR, crit, tri? Cat. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, pro?)
This was a Cat. 4 race. No way should any of them been racing on PCs.
clm
Let me add one more thing. Earlier this year we interviewed Bobby (it is available on the web page) and after it was over he came back and commented that one of the biggest improvements he had seen since getting the PC's is in his bike handling skills. Unfortunately, I did not get that on tape.
PC's make people better cyclists. They quiet their upper body and give them smoother speed control. It is silly to think that PC's, by themselves, are dangerous to those who have adapted to them and to those around those who have adapted to them.
"Unfortunately, I did not get that on tape"
That's not terribly surprising.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
Frank Day
May 13, 08 20:05
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [House]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
So someone sent me this link to a discussion about a crash seemingly caused by some guy using powercranks in a road race:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/.../u]
Regardless of the merits or lack thereof of powercranks as a training tool, or even racing a tri with them, I can't believe anybody thought this would be a good idea...
Hey, PowerCranks "caused" a crash in the Giro today. Nick Nuyens pulled out of his pedal in a bunch sprint at the end. He probably wouldn't have done that if he was not PC trained. Of course, if he were not PC trained he may not have been in that bunch sprint.
PC's are legal to race on (except for track events). Most choose not to but they are legal. It is up to the rider to ride safely and to the other riders to also ride safely, which means they shouldn't be distracted by what is on the others bicycle or how they are riding.
Yes, Nuyens is the only rider ever to pull out of his pedal in a sprint *rolling eyes* Hell, I did it and the closest I have come to using your product is offering to be a subject for you and you refusing. No matter since after reading your posts on here I wouldn't use them anyway since you are so freaking annoying.
Hey, it goes to the point that crashes happen. Sometimes it is the equipment, sometimes it is not. Usually it is not. It seems especially silly to be arguing to "ban the equipment" when there is not a single shred of evidence the equipment was at fault in this or any other crash in this race or any other. When the PC's are demonstrated to be more dangerous than any other piece of equipment then one might be able to make the argument. Water bottles probably cause more crashes than any other single piece of equipment (other than tires). Why not ban them?
--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Learn
May 13, 08 20:32
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [cerveloguy]
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How does racing with PCs cause a problem for anyone?
--
Matt Braynard
Braynard WebDev, Inc.
http://www.braynardwebdev.com
If You Can Imagine It, We Can Do It.
krgregg
May 13, 08 20:33
Post #25 of 414
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Re: Powercranks in a road race...as bad as it sounds [cerveloguy]
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greg,
it will take one lawsuit filed from something like this and I can bet that disclaimer will be there asap.
Frank,
he makes a good point. People are stupid. The least that could be done is to discourage use in road races (at least for the general public).
just because some people CAN do it, doesn't mean that most people SHOULD do it. You seem to be an intelligent (albeit, stubborn) guy...you HAVE to realize this?
-kevin
"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."
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