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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [perfection] [ In reply to ]
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When examination of this file is complete, what is it going to prove about the use of Powercranks that could not be done with normal cranks ?
Nothing. All it will prove is whether he does what he says he could do. Most of the people here predicted he would perhaps be in the 300-320 watt range. As I remember, he predicted he would average above 350 watts for this climb but he did not expect to be close to 400 watts (as might have been predicted by his earlier testing), because of his prior injury. The file should document what he really did and what his effort was for the climb, that is all.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the data put into a chart format. sorry I don't know how to turn the X axis into real time nor keep the colors that were in Excel. I added two trend lines, a moving average and a polynomial trend. His average wattage for the effort is about 358. His total time is about 28.5 minutes.



--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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The data (or plot actually) looks fishy. Notice that with 1 exception, all the max peaks look clipped at the same value? Same for the low values. And then some of the data traces look the same in character (as if they were cut and pasted multiple times. Raw data would be needed to really see what's going on. The plot just doesn't pass the looks right test.
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The data (or plot actually) looks fishy. Notice that with 1 exception, all the max peaks look clipped at the same value? Same for the low values. And then some of the data traces look the same in character (as if they were cut and pasted multiple times. Raw data would be needed to really see what's going on. The plot just doesn't pass the looks right test.
Of course, whatever Joaquin does will look "fishy" to some here. Anyhow, send me your email and I will send you the raw CSV file for this period as forwarded to me.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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Raw data would be needed to really see what's going on.

Joaquin has said that the reason the file took so long to get to us is because his server choked on the size of the original file. Accordingly, I've taken the liberty of putting the file I got from him --> here <-- in original PT .csv format. Joaquin says that the file includes a *lot* of other rides that precede the the climb of La Morcuera and that the relevant interval is marked as ID=1. That occurs about 175km into the file. That segment is 28:35 minutes and 8.76km long, with a mean of 359 watts.

However, the data are very, very odd. Perhaps the best thing is to show you a few plots of the data, with the preceding 8km from the file to show you the difference. In each panel, the data to the right of the vertical dotted line shows the climb.



The fourth and sixth panels may need some explanation.

The fourth panel shows the difference between the reported distance (8.76 total km) vs. the distance calculated from speed and time. As you can see, the cumulated error over the first 175 km of the file is essentially zero. However, the distance calculated from reported speed differs by more than a kilometer over the ensuing 8.76 km. That is to say, the speed for the climb doesn't match up with the distance.

The sixth panel shows the estimated gear ratios used. Gear ratios are calculable either with speed and cadence or, if one has a Power Tap, by watts, cadence, and hub torque. The point is that gear ratios are quite distinct and discrete, as you can see from the left side of the panel (or for the preceding 167km, if you calculate and plot them). However, the gear ratios for the climb data don't fall into neat rows.

The second panel shows speed during the climb. Joaquin was able to maintain speed in a very small range over the entire climb, with sudden jumps and discontinuities. Despite the jumps in speed, Joaquin's HR was a very steady 182 bpm.
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Raw data would be needed to really see what's going on.

The fourth panel shows the difference between the reported distance (8.76 total km) vs. the distance calculated from speed and time. As you can see, the cumulated error over the first 175 km of the file is essentially zero. However, the distance calculated from reported speed differs by more than a kilometer over the ensuing 8.76 km. That is to say, the speed for the climb doesn't match up with the distance.
I am confused. How does this "error" occur? He rode further than the reported difference. Could this be accounted for by switchbacks? What does this mean? And, what does it mean for power? Isn't that what people were really concerned about?
In Reply To:

The sixth panel shows the estimated gear ratios used. Gear ratios are calculable either with speed and cadence or, if one has a Power Tap, by watts, cadence, and hub torque. The point is that gear ratios are quite distinct and discrete, as you can see from the left side of the panel (or for the preceding 167km, if you calculate and plot them). However, the gear ratios for the climb data don't fall into neat rows.
Interpretation?
In Reply To:

The second panel shows speed during the climb. Joaquin was able to maintain speed in a very small range over the entire climb, with sudden jumps and discontinuities. Despite the jumps in speed, Joaquin's HR was a very steady 182 bpm.
Interpretation?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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"Interpretation? "


...suffice to say you aren't going to like, believe, or agree with what William Of Ockham would suggest is the answer to this question.


.

Custom Studio Sales & Support Manager for Diamondback Bikes.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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If you look at the raw data file, you will find a number of sequences in the power column that are very interesting because they are so similar. A small sample for the curious reader, each sequence of 11 was pulled from adjacent segments of the file.

440 440 440 440 440
417 417 417 417 417
397 397 397 397 397
399 399 399 399 399
339 339 339 339 339
388 388 334 381 334
363 363 368 325 368
357 357 345 356 345
363 363 344 365 344
355 355 328 395 328
381 381 355 337 355




440 440 440 440 440
417 417 417 417 417
397 397 397 397 397
399 399 399 399 399
356 339 339 397 367
391 381 381 399 344
352 325 325 339 373
366 356 356 381 381
437 365 365 325 325
425 395 395 356 356
402 390 366 365 365

FWIW,

Philbert

Dr. Philip Skiba
PhysFarm Training Systems
Coaching, Consulting and Technology for World Champions, and You.
Dr. Phil's Books available here
Last edited by: Philbert: Nov 20, 07 19:47
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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I think he is trying to be kind, Frank.

Dr. Philip Skiba
PhysFarm Training Systems
Coaching, Consulting and Technology for World Champions, and You.
Dr. Phil's Books available here
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"Interpretation? "


...suffice to say you aren't going to like, believe, or agree with what William Of Ockham would suggest is the answer to this question.


.
The data is the data. But, let me remind you of what Kendall Frederick wrote in the original post that started this thread: "Bottom line though: Joaquin's for real. Here's a guy past 40, 3 kids, traveling job, and he's putting out a LOT of power".

So, give me your interpretation of the data and not some vague insinuation that the data shows that Joaquin took time to somehow manipulate the data to make himself look better than he really is. If that is what you believe, say it. Thank goodness Kendall was there to witness the whole thing (at least the start). At least the interpretation of the data doesn't say he rode less than the reported distance.
You guys kill me.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Last edited by: Frank Day: Nov 20, 07 19:38
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Philbert] [ In reply to ]
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I think he is trying to be kind, Frank.
Why doesn't he call Kendall a liar (or co-conspirator) also?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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The data is the data

No, see, that is the problem. The data is not the data. The data is what was in that powertap before it was manipulated (poorly).

Dr. Philip Skiba
PhysFarm Training Systems
Coaching, Consulting and Technology for World Champions, and You.
Dr. Phil's Books available here
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Why doesn't he call Kendall a liar (or co-conspirator) also?

Because this guy is a talented cyclist who is putting out a lot of power...just not as much as he wishes he was. I think it is really sad that someone felt the need to doctor this file to answer the criticism of an Internet forum. With that in mind, I think we should leave Joaquin alone. Over and out.

Dr. Philip Skiba
PhysFarm Training Systems
Coaching, Consulting and Technology for World Champions, and You.
Dr. Phil's Books available here
Last edited by: Philbert: Nov 20, 07 20:00
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I think he is trying to be kind, Frank.
Why doesn't he call Kendall a liar (or co-conspirator) also?
Because Kendall got dropped within the first couple of minutes of the climb, had no idea what his own power output was (his battery died), and has (if I recall correctly) an FTP in the low 3's [w/kg] (again, based on the recollection that Kendall said his FTP was ~290 and his weight ~90kg) which is not particularly good in the overall scheme of things. It's basically the typical power of an average CAT4 or CAT5 racer, which is not be negative towards Kendall at all. I'm just merely pointing out that very factual observation that Kendall is not really in a position to evaluate someone who is "for real" in terms of power output. Kendall isn't any sort of liar or co-conspirator, since he didn't actually witness anything, other than some brief glimpses on the powertap output during the warm-up of the ride and the very beginning of the climb. He couldn't tell you anything at all other than Joaquin is a more powerful climber than he is, which isn't saying too much.

It'd be like a 6 minute mile runner going for a run and getting dropped by a 4:15 miler as easily as by a 3:55 miler. Of course, the former is a dime a dozen, and the latter is something special, and trying to evaluate which of the two the person dropping you based on some subjective evaluation is questionable.

Kendall doesn't deserve to be brought into this, because he merely reported what he saw, which, unfortunately, doesn't count for too much.


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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Got the data from Robert's link. Either the guy has an incredible feedback control loop built in, the powertap went bonkers, or the data was manipulated. Given the first option isn't plausible, we can only assume the 2nd or 3rd choices are valid. Either way, the data is garbage. Just zoom in on the power data from time 357 minutes to 362 minutes. You'll see the EXACT same data trace replicated. There are 4 instances in just this short data chunk.

It's disconcerting that someone completely ignores what the data is saying. Anyone with half a brain and a passing knowledge on power/powermeters would know this data is dorked up. To say otherwise is folly. I'm not saying this fella didn't have a spectacular ride or is capable, but merely that the EVIDENCE provided should be tossed out. It's BAD data.
Last edited by: tigermilk: Nov 20, 07 21:02
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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I am confused. How does this "error" occur? He rode further than the reported difference. Could this be accounted for by switchbacks? What does this mean? And, what does it mean for power? Isn't that what people were really concerned about?

Well...I didn't get a chance to look at the file until this evening since it was MY turn to be out of town on business ;-)

Frank, the "error" occurs because the file is badly faked. All Robert did is look at the speed x sample time vs. distance in the supposed PT file. In other words, the file isn't even consistent within itself.



In Reply To:
The sixth panel shows the estimated gear ratios used. Gear ratios are calculable either with speed and cadence or, if one has a Power Tap, by watts, cadence, and hub torque. The point is that gear ratios are quite distinct and discrete, as you can see from the left side of the panel (or for the preceding 167km, if you calculate and plot them). However, the gear ratios for the climb data don't fall into neat rows.
In Reply To:
Interpretation?

The only interpretation of that data that would make sense besides being faked is that Joaquin shifted up, down, around, and across his gear cluster every couple of seconds or so for an entire 1/2 hour.

I don't think so....


In Reply To:
The second panel shows speed during the climb. Joaquin was able to maintain speed in a very small range over the entire climb, with sudden jumps and discontinuities. Despite the jumps in speed, Joaquin's HR was a very steady 182 bpm.
Interpretation?[/reply]
Actually, it's not steady at 182...it has a very consistent and odd cyclic pattern to it:


That sure doesn't look like any HR plot I've ever seen...

So...the answer to the original question (i.e. Liar, liar??) is YES.

Frank...I would expect that as an ethical businessman you would remove all traces of Joaquin's claims from your website.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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Before I accuse someone of faking data I need something better than one "inconsistent" file. For instance, here is some data that looks a tad "faked" from the supposed "good" portion of the data, the very first 27 data points. That is about 30 seconds of data with an average of over 50 watts power with an average cadence of zero. And during this period his speed varied from a low of 4 km/hr to over 13 km/hr. An "impossibility". Yet, there it is in the part of the file for which there would be no reason to fake and which was used as a model of consistency to discredit the climb part of the file. At least everytime torque was zero power was zero. Some consistency there but it makes no sense to me. So, while I can see everyone's point regarding the inconsistencies in this file, I see no motivation nor do I see any reason his other testing data would be "faked".

Anyhow, before I render a judgment here that makes no sense whatsoever from a motive point of view I would like to know more about how the PT works. Does it take the highest, lowest, or an average during these sampling periods and how is power calculated for each interval? (How is it possible for the PT to calculate a power when the cadence seen by the PT is zero?)

And, let me suggest one possibility that might explain some of the gear data "problem" that may come directly from the fact he did the climb on PC's. If he was in and out of the saddle on this climb it is clear that one thing that everyone does when they are riding PowerCranks and they sit back down is that both legs go down. This would probably really screw up the cadence and "gear sensing" function of the PT for a short period of time that some are seeing as an inconsistency.

Anyhow, I will reserve judgment until he is tested by the Mapei Center, something he has arranged to do. Why he would do this with the certainty of knowing that his "fraud" would be discovered is beyond me, but we will see what we will see. I know many of you will never expect to see such a test ever being completed just as many of you never expected to see this file but I do and I expect him to do well. If I am wrong, then I will admit it.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Hello,

I live in Madrid, I do not know anybody from you there; I have three kids (age 5, 3 y/o, and 7 months old). And my job is "Director of Energy Management" in ENDESA (the biggest Spanish Utility) with several investment all through Europe. I travel every week to Italy, Morocco, Greece, France, Poland... and I manage more than 6 billion Euros in sales with a team over 200 people.
I am in the middle of the winter season doing just fun rides with my team mates; do you understand this? fun rides, going out and drinking a cocacola together; and I accepted going out with a very nice guy called Kendall, to show him La Morcuera, and ride as fast as I can for half an hour.
But when I get here I read people saying stupid nonensenses about someone they do not know. I wrote several weeks ago that I was able to meet Alvaro and ride with him, but he never showed up... .
So I would suggest that you spent your time in something as useful as your family, or read books or paint, or even play the piano. But in the mean time, please abstain to insult me. Do whatever you want, I do not even care, but I am really to busy to spend my time with people as stupid as you are. At least I have many, many friends and interesting things to do. Go out and ride your bike, and enjoy if you can.
I cannot understand what you are looking for; I think the best explanation you should think of is that I do not even exist.

Joaquin
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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"If I am wrong, then I will admit it. "

Thanks for that! definitely gets my vote as funniest line on ST this month...



.

Custom Studio Sales & Support Manager for Diamondback Bikes.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Before I accuse someone of faking data I need something better than one "inconsistent" file. For instance, here is some data that looks a tad "faked" from the supposed "good" portion of the data, the very first 27 data points. That is about 30 seconds of data with an average of over 50 watts power with an average cadence of zero. And during this period his speed varied from a low of 4 km/hr to over 13 km/hr. An "impossibility". Yet, there it is in the part of the file for which there would be no reason to fake and which was used as a model of consistency to discredit the climb part of the file.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at a lot of Power Tap files (I have). Cadence drop-outs are pretty common, whether cadence is estimated at the hub or using the cadence sensor. They don't affect the power reading, however (the Power Tap measures power by measuring both torque and velocity at the hub--there's a small magnet in the hub). Crank velocity has nothing to do with power measurement (on a PT).

Interestingly, there's only one section of the ride that doesn't have any cadence drop outs. Guess which section that would be? Hmmmmm........

I've seen literally thousands of power tap files, and I've never seen one like this one. The data have very obviously been manipulated. I actually wondered if the PC's had some sort of affect on the power--except that the speed and HR data has been clearly manipulated as well.

I know you won't believe anyone on here, since we're all out to get you--so I suggest you send the file to someone that you trust who regularly reviews power files, and ask him or her their opinion in the matter.
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [joaco21] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Hello,

I live in Madrid, I do not know anybody from you there; I have three kids (age 5, 3 y/o, and 7 months old). And my job is "Director of Energy Management" in ENDESA (the biggest Spanish Utility) with several investment all through Europe. I travel every week to Italy, Morocco, Greece, France, Poland... and I manage more than 6 billion Euros in sales with a team over 200 people.
I am in the middle of the winter season doing just fun rides with my team mates; do you understand this? fun rides, going out and drinking a cocacola together; and I accepted going out with a very nice guy called Kendall, to show him La Morcuera, and ride as fast as I can for half an hour.
But when I get here I read people saying stupid nonensenses about someone they do not know. I wrote several weeks ago that I was able to meet Alvaro and ride with him, but he never showed up... .
So I would suggest that you spent your time in something as useful as your family, or read books or paint, or even play the piano. But in the mean time, please abstain to insult me. Do whatever you want, I do not even care, but I am really to busy to spend my time with people as stupid as you are. At least I have many, many friends and interesting things to do. Go out and ride your bike, and enjoy if you can.
I cannot understand what you are looking for; I think the best explanation you should think of is that I do not even exist.

Joaquin
Joaquin,

It sounds like you have a full, busy and rewarding life. On the other hand, it's beyond doubt that your powertap file has been manipulated. This raises the question: why would you fake a powertap file just to impress a bunch of anonymous people on an internet forum?
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [donm] [ In reply to ]
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Good question. Impress who?

Umm let me think an answer: Maybe the file was not manipulated. (Now I am impressing you, eh...)

Maybe my PT is not working at all. Maybe when I sent it to Saris for sevicing because it was dropping data, they destroyed it.

Or maybe it is the hub that is not working. Or the antenna. Or the cheast band. Maybe I my power up La Morcuera was 390 Watts.Or maybe La Morcuera does not exist at all. Maybe Kendall does not exists. Or even Frank. Or maybe I am Frank myself.

And then, what?

Unfortunatelly there are several riders over here who still beat me up La Morcuera. And when they beat me I have no clue as to what is their wattage. Maybe they manipulate the climb, to slow me down to impress you.
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [joaco21] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, so what is your best guess as to why the data is highly irregular and does not appear to be a genuine reflection of your power output on the climb?
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [roady] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Before I accuse someone of faking data I need something better than one "inconsistent" file. For instance, here is some data that looks a tad "faked" from the supposed "good" portion of the data, the very first 27 data points. That is about 30 seconds of data with an average of over 50 watts power with an average cadence of zero. And during this period his speed varied from a low of 4 km/hr to over 13 km/hr. An "impossibility". Yet, there it is in the part of the file for which there would be no reason to fake and which was used as a model of consistency to discredit the climb part of the file.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at a lot of Power Tap files (I have). Cadence drop-outs are pretty common, whether cadence is estimated at the hub or using the cadence sensor. They don't affect the power reading, however (the Power Tap measures power by measuring both torque and velocity at the hub--there's a small magnet in the hub). Crank velocity has nothing to do with power measurement (on a PT).

Interestingly, there's only one section of the ride that doesn't have any cadence drop outs. Guess which section that would be? Hmmmmm........

I've seen literally thousands of power tap files, and I've never seen one like this one. The data have very obviously been manipulated. I actually wondered if the PC's had some sort of affect on the power--except that the speed and HR data has been clearly manipulated as well.

I know you won't believe anyone on here, since we're all out to get you--so I suggest you send the file to someone that you trust who regularly reviews power files, and ask him or her their opinion in the matter.
OK, let us be Miss marple or Sherlock Holmes and deduce what happened here. You ride up La Morcuera and, to your dismay, get home and find out the PT file only shows you averaging 300 watts yet you everyone you averaged 350 watts. But, you want everyone to believe you did 350 watts and youhave promised them the file. What would you do?

1. Take the spreadsheet and increase each power number 16% which would give you the power numbers you have been telling everyone?

2. Take the spreadsheet and manually change the 1600 power, torque, speed, and HR numbers (in lieu of a 16% straight substitution done by the computer which would keep all the normal variation intact and make it not possible to find any patterns in the numbers proving this inartful manipulation), leaving the distance numbers alone.

Which would you choose to do? Human nature says the typiical person would take the easy way and just change the power numbers. Why go to the bother of doing all this other stuff? Who is going to look? Only the ST mafia but who would have suspected?

Thanks for letting me know how the PT works. Except you forgot to say whether the power measurement comes from peak, average or minimal torque during the period and peak, average, or minimal velocity during the period. Do you know? How it works could make a difference in evaluating and possibly explaining these inconsistencies without a need to invoke nefarious intent.

Can you tell me the significance again that there were no cadence drop outs during this 100% effort, 30 minute climb when compared to his other efforts, when there was probably some coasting?

Hey, I am not so sure that anyone here is "out to get me" as this file is not mine. However, I wonder about the rush to accept nefarious intent here because of some inconsistencies in the file. I accept there are some inconsistencies I cannot explain (especially the speed/distance issue and a HR profile that looks "strange") but I do not accept that this is evidence that Joaquin deliberately manipulated the file to make himself look better than he is. If I wanted to change a PT file to look better than I am I would simply change the torque and power numbers by a set percentage across the board and leave everything else alone. This would be undetectable using all the methods you folks have used to examine this file.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [donm] [ In reply to ]
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The only genuine reflection of my effort is my time. And for me 28,5 minutes during the off season is a great result. I do not care if I do 330 Watt, 350 Watt of 900 Watt. I just care about improving and winning races. And I am very close to my PB in November, using PCs with my training bike. And this is the only fact for me. I usually improve 2-3 minutes from my off season results to my best results in the middle of the racing season. So I am very happy for this.

I do not know if the PT CPU works alight, or the hub, or riding with PCs ruins the results. I sent my PT to Saris to be fixed since it was dropping data every few seconds, I know nothing about PowerTap mechanism inside, or how files are generated, but when I set up my PT the data is recorded at different time intevals for POWER, Cadence, HR, Torque, etc.

Do you remember when I sent my PT files for my training rides in February, and I was doing four 15 minute intervals at 330 Watt and 160 bpm, and I was saying they were not maximal efforts? There were several explanations by these people here, but nobody said: if someone is able to do four consecutive 15 minute intervals at 330 Watts with avg HR of 160 bpm, maybe they looked wrong to someone.

And If I remember right it was Kendall who started the thread himself, not me. He saw the results, and I never intended to post anything here. My files are just for my personal use. I saw a big improvement both in PB up La Morcuera after one year using PCs, and in my racing results (and there are many witnesses over here who know me and saw that); and that is what is important for me. I do not care at all about PT files, sice it is just a training tool.


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