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One shot at Kona - here goes!
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Okay, so I have one window to train for and one race to qualify for Kona. I've read through many of the training threads, and think I have a plan. Would love to hear everyone's advice and will keep updating this to keep up the motivation.

Backstory: Just got married, got clearance from wife for one shot at reaching this goal. Any energy wasted on why, how, etc, is silly. This is it, folks! Think Eminem when he was still angry. Haven't done a triathlon since 2011 but have dreamed about one many times.

THE race: IM Los Cabos. March, 2014 (gives me 9 months to train).

Why I think (hope?) this is possible: recent 2:40 open marathon, under 30, ultramarathons have taught me nutrition needs, pulled a 2:33 bike leg at Timberman with 2 mechanical stops, penchant for suffering, analytical nerd
Why this will be hard: 10 hours/week of training and no swimming until September, poor swimmer (10x100 @ 1:40), honeymoon in Asia during Christmas, no powertap or coach (again, let's not worry about why)

Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

Training plan:
Phase 1 (5 months, peak at 70.3 late this year, Miamiman? Or something early Dec even better... thoughts?)
- July-August: Get running up to 70-80mi/week (Hansen's philosophy), Cycle on spinner in gym (best use of time, not enough space for trainer at home) 3x/week (2x20', 5x6', 40-45' temp)
- Sept-Oct: running 5K in mid-16's, half in ~1:15; cycling: 4x/week with a longer ride in there; swim 3x/week
- November: peak for half-ironman. Goal of 4:25ish. Dial in nutrition.
- December: Honeymoon... maintenance runs, maybe swims in ocean, little biking opportunity

Phase 2 (3 months, peaking at Los Cabos)
- Jan-Feb: big bike focus. In Boston so will be all indoors (fun!), but hope to build ginormous thighs. Maintain running fitness. Get swim down to 10x100@1:35 through brute force.
- March: get swim technique coaching, drills, get swim down
- Race day: beg/borrow/steal fancy wheels, aerohelmet. Pray my hamstrings don't cramp.

Without a powermeter is there any way I can get a gauge on how my bike fitness is progressing? Like what metric should I use to be able to be comfortable riding a 5-hour bike split? I do have a HRM if that'd be helpful.

Anyways - thanks for reading my self-serving manifesto. My body is also up for sale - happy to borrow/wear anyone's kit for coaching advice. (low odds but thought I'd throw it out there). All advice/criticism welcome!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Get a trainer at home and use trainerroad.com. Short of that or a powermeter - you're just guessing at bike fitness.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Get swim technique coaching in September, so all those months of pool sessions are more focused. Absolutely insane to leave that until March, when it can make a much larger long term impact.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Will you be able to acclimate to the temp by March? It get pretty dang warm on the run down there.

@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [toreishi] [ In reply to ]
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Not that she reads this, but thought I'd clarify... I enjoy spending time with my wife. A lot, actually. Enough so that I'd rather do things together than train the equivalent of a part-time job solo (I am trying to convince her to join the sport as well). Unfortunately we are going to be long-distance from Sept-March so it's the only time I foresee plenty of training time with little downside. Marriage is pretty neat - I highly recommend it. Planning weddings, not so much.

Good idea re: the swimming. I should front-load the technique help.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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SurfingLamb wrote:
Get a trainer at home and use trainerroad.com. Short of that or a powermeter - you're just guessing at bike fitness.


Nothing wrong with using HR to train on the bike assuming you do some testing.
Qualifying for Kona is pretty simple. Go top 3 or 4 in your AG. Based on last years time, how fast do you have to to do that and are you close now.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 2, 13 16:39
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with Bryancd.
Having done IM Cabo last year. Okay, okay, well up to mile 33 on the bike before I crashed out. Then again, it's a great race. And now that 2014 will be easier, a Kona qualifying is workable. The bike course will be easier for 2014, and I've heard tha thte run course will be easier as well.
IMO, I'm very very likely to go back for 2014.

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Sponsors: Zoot Sports, Ceepo, Garmin, Smith Optics, Speedfil, Zealios, Boom Nutrition, and HOTSHOT
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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1 and only advice... have fun. You'll never get there making this a "part time job".
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Borden] [ In reply to ]
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Was thinking I'd do treadmill/spin sessions in sweats - did you do anything better for heat acclimatization?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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What are your triathlon results? Have you done an IM? Whee in the AG do you finish at big WTC races? That's going to answer the question a lot faster then dicking around talking about power meters.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Dude. No other words than I hope you can do it. Just train your ass off and have fun. Kona is a badass prize if the race goes well!

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
... gets me to 9:35 and a shot

You need to set your goals better. A shot is not worth the effort. Set your goals so when you reach them you go to Kona.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [toreishi] [ In reply to ]
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toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.

+1

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http://medicalxpress.com/...women-cooperate.html
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Grindcore] [ In reply to ]
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Grindcore wrote:
toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.


+1

Agreed, but isn't that just how it works? Am I missing something?

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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The sexiest word to a female in the English language is NO.

Of course, if the kid KQs he'll prolly have options o plenty and a new attitude to go with it. :P
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Tri results?

Assuming you are M2529, you're going to need to be top 3 in AG for KQ at an early season race.

Team Dimond
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [toreishi] [ In reply to ]
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Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?

Not everyone wants to be married to someone who spends all his spare time and energy in an event that only involves him. Maybe she would like to do something with him that would strengthen the marriage? That may sound strange in today's world but it could happen.

I've done 3 IM's when I was single and I wouldn't marry a woman who wanted to do Ironman triathlons. It's way too self-centred a sport.

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
Last edited by: Sanuk: Jul 2, 13 17:57
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Okay, so I have one window to train for and one race to qualify for Kona. I've read through many of the training threads, and think I have a plan. Would love to hear everyone's advice and will keep updating this to keep up the motivation.

Backstory: Just got married, got clearance from wife for one shot at reaching this goal. Any energy wasted on why, how, etc, is silly. This is it, folks! Think Eminem when he was still angry. Haven't done a triathlon since 2011 but have dreamed about one many times.

THE race: IM Los Cabos. March, 2014 (gives me 9 months to train).

Why I think (hope?) this is possible: recent 2:40 open marathon, under 30, ultramarathons have taught me nutrition needs, pulled a 2:33 bike leg at Timberman with 2 mechanical stops, penchant for suffering, analytical nerd
Why this will be hard: 10 hours/week of training and no swimming until September, poor swimmer (10x100 @ 1:40), honeymoon in Asia during Christmas, no powertap or coach (again, let's not worry about why)

Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

Training plan:
Phase 1 (5 months, peak at 70.3 late this year, Miamiman? Or something early Dec even better... thoughts?)
- July-August: Get running up to 70-80mi/week (Hansen's philosophy), Cycle on spinner in gym (best use of time, not enough space for trainer at home) 3x/week (2x20', 5x6', 40-45' temp)
- Sept-Oct: running 5K in mid-16's, half in ~1:15; cycling: 4x/week with a longer ride in there; swim 3x/week
- November: peak for half-ironman. Goal of 4:25ish. Dial in nutrition.
- December: Honeymoon... maintenance runs, maybe swims in ocean, little biking opportunity

Phase 2 (3 months, peaking at Los Cabos)
- Jan-Feb: big bike focus. In Boston so will be all indoors (fun!), but hope to build ginormous thighs. Maintain running fitness. Get swim down to 10x100@1:35 through brute force.
- March: get swim technique coaching, drills, get swim down
- Race day: beg/borrow/steal fancy wheels, aerohelmet. Pray my hamstrings don't cramp.

Without a powermeter is there any way I can get a gauge on how my bike fitness is progressing? Like what metric should I use to be able to be comfortable riding a 5-hour bike split? I do have a HRM if that'd be helpful.

Anyways - thanks for reading my self-serving manifesto. My body is also up for sale - happy to borrow/wear anyone's kit for coaching advice. (low odds but thought I'd throw it out there). All advice/criticism welcome!


Wow, this is a head scratcher. You've set up so many constraints that you will really have an uphill battle. Not even sure where to start. One big question is what AG will you be?

To successfully KQ, you need a combination of the following: time, money, smarts, luck, experience, and determination. Not all are necessarily required, but if you are lacking in more than one, it will be next to impossible. I'll expand on each and explain further.

Time: W/ only 10hrs you are seriously limiting your potential. Look at it this way: 3x 45:00 swims (2:15), 4x 1hr runs (4:00), and that leaves you 3:45 per week to bike. There is no way in god's green earth 3:45 biking per week will get you KQ. Plus, since you are so heavily run focused, you'll be running far more than the 4:00 I estimated which leaves even less time to swim and bike. As many KQ'ers and high level coaches will tell you, the key to a fast run and great overall result in an IM is great bike training and race execution on the bike. That means more, smart bike training. But time is limited. See where I'm going w/ this?

Money: This can buy you free (or cheap or expensive) speed. E.g. deep section front wheel, disk or at least a wheel cover for the rear, aero helmet, BTA drink set up, single bottle rear, aero front brake, clean cabling/wires, etc. Also means coaching, indoor trainer, gas/bus/cab costs to and from practices, better nutrition for meals, training, racing, and recovery, and on and on. Again, you don't need all of that, but the more, the better. Look at many of the KQ'ers at any WTC race, and I bet you they have nearly all those things I mention. Doesn't mean you can't get there, but odds are reducing more and more. Also, racing practice and experience. It is good you'll do an end of season 1/2, but can you do any other races for a gauge of fitness and progress? Do not bother w/ an open 1/2 or full marathon; they are different beasts and NOT the same training prep. The only exception would be if you can find a 1/2 marathon that starts mid to late morning in which you can bike (brick) before it and great race simulation.

Smarts: Sounds like you will be mostly self-coached. Very risky/dangerous endeavor for a big dream like KQ. Read every stinkin' thread on this website. But before you believe it all, take notes on who appears to be the most knowledgeable. Not who posts the most or who has the biggest signature line, but who appears to be the most credible/successful/etc at either racing or coaching or both. Smarts does NOT mean high IQ or PhD or MD, but really rather common sense. Will you be training sensibly? Will you know how to stay injury-free and if injured, what to do? Can you learn proper training, do that, and execute in (your limited) racing schedule? IM nutrition can be quite different than ultra nutrition too. You won't get to learn what AP, NP, TSS, IF, VI are...so you will have to be a disciplined student of HR in all aspects of your training.

Luck: Almost all WTC KQ events nowadays have many KQ studs that show up. Look at IMCDA this year M30-34 as an example and who was shut out and their time. My time from IMAZ in '11 (9:21, 3rd in AG, M35-39) would not have even KQ'd in '12. Their are countless other examples as well. Plus, you are hitting an earlier WTC event where there are likely to be zero roll downs at that point in the year. Also, w/ Lake Tahoe being a later summer event, you are hitting the only west coast WTC event in the 1st 7+ months of the year if you don't count CDA.

Experience: Every race, especially of similar distance, climate, etc is a learning experience. Ask anyone on here, even multi KQ'ers. Every Kona, every IM, every race I learn something (or screw something up). That's why it's so important to, if not do races, simulate races. No trainer, in Boston, w/ limited funds makes that really really tough. Find a way to simulate racing if you cannot participate.

Determination: I will give you this...at least on paper. I'd suggest holding yourself accountable in some manner. Report back here every month. Hire an "advisor" (coach w/ some exchange of services) to keep you honest. Reporting in August that you ran 300 miles is not really taking steps towards KQ. Remember, an IM is not a free, open marathon...but a difficult run after a LONG bike ride that you are racing at a goal of 21mph. I bet no more than 5-10 AG men in all WTC North American events in the last year have run 3:00 or faster. How many of them KQ'd? Probably most and it's b/c they biked a 4:40-5:00. Like others said, get that swim coach as early as possible. Also, you have to shoot for far more than 10x 100 @ whatever. You have to be able to swim 4000 straight, 4x 1000 descend 1-4, 2x 2000 for time, 10x 400 desc 1-3 (3x) and #10 all out, etc.

A good start is to set up a more definitive plan, get a good bike fit or at least show us pics, and sit down w/ your wife NOW and tell her what will really be involved. Possibly look for free online IM plans too. But remember, you are not a run of the mill, bucket lister w/ your goal. You have a goal of basically being FOP which is a very small subset of triathletes.

I hope my tone did not come across as too harsh...but honest and frank. Take this from a self-coached multi-KQ'er.

Best of luck and use the search function on these forums for a wealth of knowledge.

______________________________________________________
Sub-9 IM. Navy SeaBee deep sea diver. Can Do!
Last edited by: irontri: Jul 2, 13 18:54
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent advice.

I'll chime in with some names to search for:

Paulo Sousa
smartasscoach
.. (might be three periods)

All of the above are aliases of Paulo

Desert Dude

MarkyV

Francois

Dr. Phil (Skibba) (?) - also you should go by both his books: http://www.physfarm.com

There are some others, but scour everything you can by those folks - digest it, read it again, and then ask questions.


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
Last edited by: sentania: Jul 2, 13 18:52
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Have you done an Ironman before?

Yeah, still waiting on hearing that myself.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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and obviously sentania and BryanCD for experienced, multi-KQ'ers as well:)

______________________________________________________
Sub-9 IM. Navy SeaBee deep sea diver. Can Do!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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irontri wrote:
and obviously sentania and BryanCD for experienced, multi-KQ'ers as well:)

I think you covered very succinctly, Cam. :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I've got nothing to add. You summed it up very, very well.


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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"I wouldn't marry a woman who wanted to do Ironman triathlons. It's way too self-centred a sport. "

When my wife won the Kona lottery it was regarded as a one time thing but although I was very supportive, her training schedule drove me nuts - allowed no spontaneous activities at all. We were invited on a boat weekend on a 42 ft trawler but had to pass because my wife had a long run on Saturday and a long ride on Sunday. Passed up a weekend at a cottage on a lake for the same reason. We didn't scuba dive once that entire summer. Triathlon was always a lot of fun for both of us when we both did the short course events with the occassional 1/2 because we still had time for other hobbies/interests as well as each other, but her training for Kona left no time for anything else. Fortunately it did pay off and she had a spectacular race for a newbie.

Fortunately it really was only a one time thing. Had she wished to continue with IM I probably would have divorced her.
Last edited by: cerveloguy: Jul 2, 13 20:07
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [toreishi] [ In reply to ]
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toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.

Another female here (married too) - ditto this.




My triathlon training blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Was thinking I'd do treadmill/spin sessions in sweats - did you do anything better for heat acclimatization?

How big is your bathroom? I've done spin sessions with a warm shower running/ door closed. I find sweats get in the way and I can't ride well, but some nice warm sticky air is the perfect substitute for warm climate. As long as you don't mind paying for the extra hot water.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
Grindcore wrote:
toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.


+1

Agreed, but isn't that just how it works? Am I missing something?

Your Balls?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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What happens if/when you qualify for Kona and you have only been allotted the next 9 months to train? Are you going to do nothing from March to October and just show up, or has your wife also given you an additional 6 months of training time if you qualify?

Also will you be OK if you train for the next 9 months and don't qualify? I would try to not put so much pressure on yourself for this event. Train hard, have fun, and tell yourself no matter what happens you will be happy about the experience.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [xtremrun] [ In reply to ]
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Well played. Very well played.

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Yosa125] [ In reply to ]
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Yosa125 wrote:
What happens if/when you qualify for Kona and you have only been allotted the next 9 months to train? Are you going to do nothing from March to October and just show up, or has your wife also given you an additional 6 months of training time if you qualify?

Also will you be OK if you train for the next 9 months and don't qualify? I would try to not put so much pressure on yourself for this event. Train hard, have fun, and tell yourself no matter what happens you will be happy about the experience.

I think this right here sums it up pretty well..
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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looks like you are hoping for a great race off of pure running fitness. Probably not going to work. You need bike fitness. I have a 2:39 open marathon and can do a 37:00 10K in an olympic tri but in 2 ironmnn I could only manage 3:30. Why? I burnt myself out on the bike and swim trying to do the splits that I needed to be in contention for a kona slot. This is despite good bike training (averaging 8 hours a week for 4+ months) a powermeter and 95% of the best equipment money can buy. My point is that you cannot do a great ironman marathon without being able to handle the bike and swim. Your plan will not allow you to handle the bike and swim. I suggest that you back off on the running and start a whole lot of biking now.

Other major issues
- los cabos in march coming from boston. Seriously? That means near zero riding outdoors. Is it too late to pick a different race?

- no tris in the last 2 years.

- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

With a 2:40 stand-alone marathon PB, you are ON PAPER within range to get to 3:00 for the marathon. However, training for events like this and the event itself involves so many variables it's really hard to predict absolute outcomes. And stand-alone marathon running has little in common with the running of a marathon at the end of an IM. This is poorly understood by many. That 2:40 PB marathon gives you a ticket to the show, but you still have to come through and perform. I've seen much faster marathon runners, absolutely crushed by the run in an IM.

An extension of that is, because of so many variables, why just "one shot"? Will this be your first IM? It's rare that everything goes to plan with veterans when everything goes right in training and on race day for an IM race. In your debut - all bets are off. There will come a time on race day where you'll cross over into an aerobic-no-mans-land where you've never been and you'll really not know what the outcome will be. You only ever get there actually racing IM's.

The run will be key and critical for you. That's good, because few, even those competing for top age-group spots and IQ's are running that fast. Many are in total survival mode beyond a certain point on the run. This sets up a HUGE opportunity for those who can really run well and strongly for the FULL marathon. You can massively improve place performance by doing this, but as mentioned previously, a lot of things need to line up and go-right for that to happen.

YMMV.







Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Jul 3, 13 7:30
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [jonahsdad] [ In reply to ]
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jonahsdad wrote:
looks like you are hoping for a great race off of pure running fitness. Probably not going to work. You need bike fitness. I have a 2:39 open marathon and can do a 37:00 10K in an olympic tri but in 2 ironmnn I could only manage 3:30. Why? I burnt myself out on the bike and swim trying to do the splits that I needed to be in contention for a kona slot. This is despite good bike training (averaging 8 hours a week for 4+ months) a powermeter and 95% of the best equipment money can buy. My point is that you cannot do a great ironman marathon without being able to handle the bike and swim. Your plan will not allow you to handle the bike and swim. I suggest that you back off on the running and start a whole lot of biking now.

Other major issues
- los cabos in march coming from boston. Seriously? That means near zero riding outdoors. Is it too late to pick a different race?

- no tris in the last 2 years.

- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.

Potts does most of his training on a trainer, but he does get outside to ride, a little. But, I digress, he's a pro.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TylerJ] [ In reply to ]
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I applaud you for pursuing your dream - go for it! Most of all, make sure you enjoy the opportunity that many would love to have - a dedicated chance to train for, and the potential to realize a great athletic accomplishment. Here are my initial recommendations:

The swim can be so important for setting up the whole day. Learn to swim with less effort - not brute force - so that you don't shoot your whole wad in the first hour of the race, you can use up way too much of your stored glycogen here that will not be available later. Think about doing longer sets like 10x200 @ 3:20 instead of the 100 yard sets (eventually moving to 300 and 400 yard sets). Give yourself time goals for a 800 yard time trial, which is long enough to gauge swim improvement, without being so hard mentally and physically for someone who does not have a swimming background. Do this test regularly.

Be comfortable on your bike - 5+ hours is a long time and many slow down late in a race due to body aches as much as bike fitness. You are time limited, but every other week allow extra time to get at least one day with some more saddle time. An uncomfortable position can also make it more difficult to take in and process liquid/food.

A 3:00 run is ambitious, but a 2:40 open time is good and if you know if you have more upside potential. Evaluate and set a realistic goal time, and practice a lot at that pace, so that your body becomes adept at taking in nutrition and hydrating at that specific pace. Your program seems run focused, make it your strength and race that way. Remember, its not about being fast as much as it is about not slowing down late in the race. Be prepared to have to run down others, all the way to the end for that spot.

Know why you are doing this - mental toughness can mean a lot late in a race. Most ask themselves "why am I doing this" or "is it worth it" or "can I keep it going" or whatever. Answer this questions before hand.

I know it is your "one chance" but I encourage you not to make success only realted to the outcome.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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d00d wrote:
jonahsdad wrote:
- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.


Potts does most of his training on a trainer, but he does get outside to ride, a little. But, I digress, he's a pro.

Potts rides on his tri bike, in aero, on his trainer, in his garage. This guy wants to train on a spinner in the gym. I have done 5 hour trainer rides but could not imagine doing them on the gym spinner.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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When my wife won the Kona lottery it was regarded as a one time thing but although I was very supportive, her training schedule drove me nuts - allowed no spontaneous activities at all. We were invited on a boat weekend on a 42 ft trawler but had to pass because my wife had a long run on Saturday and a long ride on Sunday. Passed up a weekend at a cottage on a lake for the same reason. We didn't scuba dive once that entire summer. Triathlon was always a lot of fun for both of us when we both did the short course events with the occassional 1/2 because we still had time for other hobbies/interests as well as each other, but her training for Kona left no time for anything else. Fortunately it did pay off and she had a spectacular race for a newbie.

Bingo!

The flip-side.

There is the odd freak who can do something like this on less, but generally speaking, depending on the back-ground of the individual it's about more and more. Training now to get to a sub 10 and mid 9 hrs IM, can be massively time consumptive - and that's just in the years and years of build up. Remember that, if you are talking to a really good coach and you're new to the sport and with a decent back-ground of endurance sports fitness, they will have you on a 4 - 5 year plan. They say that it takes 4 - 5 years of solid base training to get ready to really race an IM at this level. . . and it's true.

Que the stories of the freaks who did it on less. Note the word freak! :) For the rest of us, it's a long multi-year journey. That's way they also say, that you need to enjoy the journey!





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of things I noticed in your plan...

1. If you only have 10 hrs a week to train, I wouldn't run 70-80 mpw. Spend more time on your bike.
2. You need to get used to being aero for 5-6 hours. That's not going to happen on the spinning bike at the gym.
3. I know a handful of guys who are 2:30 marathoners who have not run 3:00 off the bike. It takes more than run fitness to run 3:00 off the bike.
4. Get swim instruction as soon as possible.
5. I'd search for posts by BrianPBN to look at different nutritional strategies for IM. He posts plans from pros and AGers he works with
Last edited by: dmorris: Jul 3, 13 8:00
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say you/your wife have something deeper going on.

It's possible to do family events both planned and spontaneous when training for Ironman - you simply have to prioritize things.

I'm amazed at how many people train for Ironman as if it's all consuming and you have to be doing 5 or 6 hour rides, 5 or 6 months in advance.

For IMCDA, I didn't ride longer than roughly 4 (probably closer to 3) hours until 6 or 7 weeks before the race. Granted, as Fleck would point out, I have many years of base fitness supporting me, but some people go to crazy extents.

For example - I spoke with a guy last week about Ironman training. He couldn't believe I trained as "little" as I did, and was even more astounded that I worked a full time job while doing it (training for Ironman). Even more crazy he was only thinking about it from a completion/participation perspective, not a competitive perspective. He actually thought that to do it, you needed to take a year off of work in order to train and get the fitness, simply to complete it.

Type A personalities strike again!


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Hah! I just gave my fiance clearance to do a HIM the weekend before our wedding, while I'm on my bachelorette trip. His first full will be 2 months after :) We will be spending a lot of time side-by-side on our trainers.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
You. You make me stronger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [dmorris] [ In reply to ]
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Especially agree with #3, as others have said. Running a good marathon split is more about bike fitness than anything. For the love of all that is good please do not do your bike training on a gym spinner. Make room for a trainer. If you can stand your bike up in your place you have room. Spinners are good for working up a good sweat, that's about it. Best of luck man.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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The best to you in this goal. I predict you'll do well.

Have fun along the way!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Don't count on this but....

My wife was totally sick of IM training this spring. partly because she was injured and, I think, a little envious of my ability to train. Be that as it may, she came to my 70.3 this spring and got so pumped that now she is back on board. Yesterday I got home from a long workout to find the baby asleep and my wife riding the trainer watching Kona on Youtube. WTF? My mind was blown (she doesn't race tris)

She has gone from telling me I'm "too skinny" to telling me to "put down the snacks, you need to lose 5 more lbs to be my best". She says this tongue in cheek but she when she does, she is at least showing me how well she understands the goal....

You never know what might happen.
That said don't count on it.
and as an aside, I'm done after this year (at least with IM) of my own volition, having now watched what she has had to go through to let me train. But thats a separate issue. I made that choice.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Okay, so I have one window to train for and one race to qualify for Kona. I've read through many of the training threads, and think I have a plan. Would love to hear everyone's advice and will keep updating this to keep up the motivation.


Backstory: Just got married, got clearance from wife for one shot at reaching this goal. Any energy wasted on why, how, etc, is silly. This is it, folks! Think Eminem when he was still angry. Haven't done a triathlon since 2011 but have dreamed about one many times.

THE race: IM Los Cabos. March, 2014 (gives me 9 months to train).

Why I think (hope?) this is possible: recent 2:40 open marathon, under 30, ultramarathons have taught me nutrition needs, pulled a 2:33 bike leg at Timberman with 2 mechanical stops, penchant for suffering, analytical nerd
Why this will be hard: 10 hours/week of training and no swimming until September, poor swimmer (10x100 @ 1:40), honeymoon in Asia during Christmas, no powertap or coach (again, let's not worry about why)

Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

Training plan:
Phase 1 (5 months, peak at 70.3 late this year, Miamiman? Or something early Dec even better... thoughts?)
- July-August: Get running up to 70-80mi/week (Hansen's philosophy), Cycle on spinner in gym (best use of time, not enough space for trainer at home) 3x/week (2x20', 5x6', 40-45' temp)
- Sept-Oct: running 5K in mid-16's, half in ~1:15; cycling: 4x/week with a longer ride in there; swim 3x/week
- November: peak for half-ironman. Goal of 4:25ish. Dial in nutrition.
- December: Honeymoon... maintenance runs, maybe swims in ocean, little biking opportunity

Phase 2 (3 months, peaking at Los Cabos)
- Jan-Feb: big bike focus. In Boston so will be all indoors (fun!), but hope to build ginormous thighs. Maintain running fitness. Get swim down to 10x100@1:35 through brute force.
- March: get swim technique coaching, drills, get swim down
- Race day: beg/borrow/steal fancy wheels, aerohelmet. Pray my hamstrings don't cramp.

Without a powermeter is there any way I can get a gauge on how my bike fitness is progressing? Like what metric should I use to be able to be comfortable riding a 5-hour bike split? I do have a HRM if that'd be helpful.

Anyways - thanks for reading my self-serving manifesto. My body is also up for sale - happy to borrow/wear anyone's kit for coaching advice. (low odds but thought I'd throw it out there). All advice/criticism welcome!


I'm not going to explain to you how to Kona qualify as there are many guys who already explained that to you. Maybe it is your choice of words, but the following words in your post don't sound good in the long term:

  1. one window
  2. got clearance
  3. one shot

Sounds like if you fail at making it to Kona, you/your marriage MAY be miserable. And if you DO make it to Kona, you'll need to do another Ironman build, in which case you will need a second window, get clearanace again and get a second shot.


If something is important enough to you in your marriage then you should be able to decide to do it within reason and IM training CAN happen within reason. And if something is important enough for your wife, she should be able to do it too. But depriving you of doing something should not be anything on her importance "list". If it is, then better to clear that up now.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Ya might, ya might not. The important part is the journey. Train as hard as you can with the time you can carve out and see what happens. Having the goal and putting in the sacrifice and sweat is what is so cool about this great sport of ours. You always learn things about yourself, achieve things you never thought possible and you'll have a great experience when it's all over. Regardless of the result it'll be a great adventure and a win for you personally.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - quite a set of responses by the time I logged in this morning. You guys are great. I do love how half of the posts are around the relationship issue, so let me address that first...

Look, I'd be lying if I said that this wouldn't be easier if I were single, but reading this a few years ago really struck a nerve: http://online.wsj.com/...116083514534672.html. Until my wife gets hooked on tris (working on it!), training for Kona is a very much a clearance thing in my mind. I will guaranteed be a worse husband over this next year (the first year of our marriage, I might add). I will be gone. I will be tired. I will be less fun at night. I will be thinking about training, or nutrition, or any number of things related to tri's that will be distracting. As Sanuk and others have mentioned, I wouldn't want to be married to me during this time. For my future, I will be working ~60 hours/week. With a family and social life, repeated long-course tris are not sustainable. I have many other dreams that work well with her: eating, traveling, drinking, etc. These are all choices I have made, and I own that. She's understanding and supportive of my current goals. Let's just all be happy and start working out.

Onto the training! Adjustments I will make for the summer due to your feedback:

- Running to work (+25 mpw @ 0 hours). Reduce to 50mpw total. @jonahsdad FWIW I ran the 2:40 off of 2 months of elliptical training 3 months before the race due to an injury. If anyone wants the truly mind-numbing plan, PM me.

- Apply those extra 2.5 hours to biking. Aim for 8 hours of cycling per week. Is there a rule-of-thumb mileage people aim for? Is 120mpw good? 150? More the better? Anyone want to do early morning rides in SF?
*Clarification: I do have a bike with me, just no trainer for the summer. Therefore, I am able to go riding outdoors before work, with spinner as supplement. After September I will have a trainer through the Boston winter.

- Swim 1x/week to remember how to swim. Get coached in September when I can swim 3x+ per week

Responses to questions:
@radelj44: I may be really weird, but for me, getting faster is the fun part, not the journey. Whatever boring, painful, steps I have to take there is more than fine, as long as it helps me get to the goal.
@bryancd and others: I have never done an IM. I will find a local race later this month/early August to establish a baseline and report back. I started riding a bike and learned how to swim in March of 2011. That August I was 9th in my AG at Timberman (25-29) - yes, now you all know who I am, but whatever, this is the internet. You knew already anyways. I'm now faster running-wise and will focus on blowing up bike fitness.
@An old guy: I picked 9:30 as a realistic stretch goal given constraints. I wish I could be faster for you, but you know, life. And genes. Damn you, mom and dad.
@sentania: thanks for the advice!
@Yosa: Let's get to the how do I train for Kona question when we get there. :)
@TheBeek: you've just described my hottest dream. Sorry, was than overshare?
@irontri, @Fleck, @steves, others with great advice that I can't scroll down to see: you are awesome. That is all
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Don't sweat the results of each workout, trying to hit goal times etc, don't let numbers get you down. Have a long term focus that looks past each workout. Fitness gains and performance results are not always linear, they sometimes come in small steps instead. You will be accumulating some fatigue along the way and could even feel tired and get slower at times. This is an aerobic sport, not a power sport, it takes time for some physiological changes to take place.

Schedule your recovery, that can be good opportunities for wife and life and other things.

Think hard about how you plan for a taper, especially if you will still be doing only about 10 hrs per week, you may need less taper than is typical.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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This ends one of two ways:

1) you get injured running 70-80 MPW on tired legs because of your dumb ass cycling plan
2) you get to the start line and then DNF 6 miles into the run after blowing up biblically. Running 7 minute miles after a 5:10 is not going to happen with such shitty biking fitness.

In either scenario, your wife probably ends up leaving you when she reconciles your 6 months of ignoring her during this silly pipe dream of yours, all the money you spent on aero crap and the fact that you didnt even get a finishers medal, a mike Reily shout out or the day after tattoo. Don't be that guy.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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My question... and I've never trainned for a IM... but now training for my second HIM that I hope to place well in, can you do well in a IM with only 10 hours per week? I'm at 9-12 hours and feel like that's barely enough to balance all 3 disciplines and I'm only training for a fast 13, not a marathon. I'm thinking 12-15 is a minimum to get in the long rides and runs.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
That August I was 9th in my AG at Timberman (25-29)


OK, that speaks the loudest as to your ability in less then 12 months to move from 9th in that AG to top 3 at a full Ironman, even one with fewer participants like Cabos. I think based on your training time constraints, time of year, and that result it is very unlikely you can qualify. Had you been one of the guys who show up at their first half or full and go top 3 in a competitive AG and field, that would speak volumes. But you have a lot of work to do. I think a two year plan would be much more doable. You just don't have the time to develop enough bike fitness.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 13:13
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
I have many other dreams that work well with her: eating, traveling, drinking, etc.

I also dream of eating and drinking. Nothing productive to add that has not been said, but best of luck on the marriage and your pursuit of the goal.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ In reply to ]
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I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice.

LOL! Yeah, I don't know how fair all those comments were/are. I think the OP simply was sharing that he had a personal conversation with his spouse about a big deal in his life, nothing wrong with that. I certainly discuss my triathlon plans a year in advance with my wife.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
My question... and I've never trainned for a IM... but now training for my second HIM that I hope to place well in, can you do well in a IM with only 10 hours per week? I'm at 9-12 hours and feel like that's barely enough to balance all 3 disciplines and I'm only training for a fast 13, not a marathon. I'm thinking 12-15 is a minimum to get in the long rides and runs.

You don't train at "IM volume" 52 weeks a year. So, averages are just that - averages.
Part of the year you can easily get away with 6-10 hrs/wk (or less, sometimes much less - he says, from experience);
then during the last 3 months before your IM, you'd likely be doing more like 14-18+ hours/wk.

You don't need L rides and L runs all year 'round. Probably better for your sanity, and your relationships, if you don't anyway.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In order to assess your comment I need to know about your dating life first. How is it going?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I have to agree: based on your Timberman result, I'm going to say unlikely as well. Unless you were terribly under-trained for that event, a 1:37 run split in a 70.3 does not translate to a 3:00 split for a full...and, I think it's much easier to reach your potential in a 70.3 than 140.6. I run a 1:24 open half, but can comfortably run 1:28 in a 70.3 after a strong bike. In a full, though, the best marathon I've put together is 3:34 compared to my 3:00 open marathon PR. (Going to fix that this year at IMFL, though.)

What about focusing on an early season 70.3? 10 hours / week would be much more appropriate for that distance. You'd probably get more satisfaction out of an age group podium in a 70.3 than missing your stretch goal of KQ. Besides, you've got many years in front of you for IM.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't relealize he ran so poorly at Timberman even though he felt his 2:33 bike split was worth mentioning. So a decent ride, nothing spectacular, followed by that slow a run, yeah, no way. Clearly his bike fitness isn't nearly good enough. If a 2:33 blows you to that many pieces, you have no idea what 112 miles feels like.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 16:11
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 17:28
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, just look at his signature line!!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

So if a guy isnt ...'Fast right out of the box'... he has 'not even the slimmest chance'?? For your argument to have any validity wouldn't you first have to know the level of training he did leading up to Timberman? I'm sure more than a few genetic freaks out there could easily go 4:40 'right out of the box' at Timberman on just a few hours of training a week. The op's 2:40 OM time would indicate that he has potential , and he probably has far more than 'not even the slimmest of chances' that you have granted him . And now... thanks to you he also has some motivational fodder to pin to the 'dressing room blackboard'  :)

.

Kids need to be on their bikes ripping around, getting dirty, falling down, and getting up
~ Lance Armstrong
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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It is an easy trap for runners coming in to Ironman to think they can run within 20 minutes of their open times for the marathon. You really don't appreciate the bike fitness (and swim) that it takes to allow that in a race. Not to mention in the hottest part of the day. Ironman is littered with fast open runner who walk the marathon.
Certainly it is possible that he can do it, but it is pretty rare to happen on the first try. Those who do are usually fast enough to be pros within another year.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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In my experience, considering the time fame he has provided, his results so far, yes, he would need to be a genetic anomaly to qualify. And I could care less if he uses me for motivation. And the fact that you use a Lance quote in your signature line speaks volumes.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 18:32
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

I'll chime in, as the yin to your yang.

What he did at Timberman, isn't like it's his ceiling or something. And lots of people need a coupla few LC races under their belts to figger it all out.
I know I did.
I did Timberman as my 2nd HIM, biked 2:31 on a road bike w/ clip-ons, then imploded on the run. Didn't exactly bode well for the future...
Yet, the very next year, did IMLP as my first IM, had a great day, and KQ'd.
I certainly hadn't done a 2:40 open Mary prior (hadn't done any Marys prior - LP was my first), and as we all know, I was, and still am, a crap swimmer.
And he's not hopeless on the bike either - I believe he said the 2:33 included some mechanical-related stops.

The OP needs to work on his swim*, and bike. Especially his bike.
(*he should really get into the ST swim thing going on RIGHT NOW)
He can probably put the run on maintenance mode w/ say 30-40 mpw for a while, and focus his energies on his weaknesses.
I agree, that in today's world, and in his AG, that a KQ is very much a longshot. But not entirely impossible.




float , hammer , and jog

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice."

Don't you agree they often go hand in hand?

Sometimes I think there must be only three types of posters on these IM advice threads - bachelors, divorced guys, and soon to be divorced guys. :-)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Also keep in mind, Murph, in his AG he needs to be top 3 likely. Older folks can be 5th or 6th and get a slot. ;) And even with mechanicals, he clearly biked far too hard, negating tat split.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 18:47
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
How is it going?

Not shabby at all. She's sitting 2 feet away reading a book & she didn't dump me on the cross country road trip. But there is always tomorrow so I'll have to do something impressive to keep her. Probably laundry.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
For your argument to have any validity wouldn't you first have to know the level of training he did leading up to Timberman?

It'd be nice but it's not a necessity.

fwiw and I think Bryancd wouldn't mind me saying this since we raced each other a fair bit as he was starting and I was finishing my racing career, he wasn't fast right out of the box. But he did a lot, and I mean a lot of work to get fast.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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To the OP - Find a masters swim group and start swimming at least 4x each week. Find the meanest, tallest, chubby, over-the-hill ex-collegiate swimmer who likes to do stupid workouts like 15x300 workouts. You'll figure it out. As many have said, you need a bike trainer. If you can afford it, buy a Computrainer. Ride it. Every morning at o'dark thirty. I don't understand why you say you can only workout 10 hours a week. There is this thing called an alarm clock. Get one, set it to 2 hours before you have to leave for work/make your wife breakfast and ride your trainer for 1.5 hours every morning. Not just spinning but hard quality-type stuff. That will get you close to 20 hours a week. Maintain that badass run. 40 miles of running per week should be enough. Repeat x however many weeks you have until your race. You're welcome.

Love,
T
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Also keep in mind, Murph, in his AG he needs to be top 3 likely. Older folks can be 5th or 6th and get a slot. ;) And even with mechanicals, he clearly biked far too hard, negating tat split.

Back in the day, ancient doodes like me could be 12th and get a slot.
Ah, the tymes of olde.

I don't think the OP is as totally FUBAR'd as you do.
But I wouldn't bet a lotta $ on him getting it done either.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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this thread needs a meme



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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Ignore most advice from ST. Especially if it comes from a guy who says you have virtually no shot, then proceeds to tell you how awesome he is. You definitely have a shot, best of luck!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I'll disagree on this occasion with your "not even the slimmest of chances" assessment (BTW I read all your posts and generally respect the advicve you give).

I think you may have misread WX's results - I think he means Timberman 2011 (not 2012). So, after 5-6 months of cycling he rides a 2:33 (with mechanicals) and then runs a 1:25. Neither times are spectacular but certainly in the realms of Kona qualifier if he can improve his bike. The 2:40 open mara is not completely "meaningless" to the discussion - it goes some way to showing he has a good engine and at least the capability to KQ.

Go for it WX, yes it's a long shot but I think you're in the ballpark. What I would say is a 3:00 IM marathon is ambitious (especially with your lack of biking) - sub 3:15 is more realistic. As others have said focus on the bike, you need to be strong so you're in a postion off the bike to run to your potential. Swim - I'd not spend too much effort reducing your time (alot of training time for minimal return). If you can get out of the water in 70mins feeling very comfortable that will be far better than a 65min swim that leaves you shelled for the bike.

Top 3-4 in AG is the goal for KQ but ballpark I'd target times of 1:10 5:15 3:10. Will put you in around 9:40 mark, probably not enough for KQ but who knows on the day. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
In my experience, considering the time fame he has provided, his results so far, yes, he would need to be a genetic anomaly to qualify. And I could care less if he uses me for motivation. And the fact that you use a Lance quote in your signature line speaks volumes.



So I Iike a doper's views on childhood and that kids - including my two little ones - should be out on their bikes testing their limits and..... it 'speaks volumes' of me? 

Thats funny:)

.

Kids need to be on their bikes ripping around, getting dirty, falling down, and getting up
~ Lance Armstrong
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [HKoldtimer] [ In reply to ]
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HKoldtimer wrote:
I'll disagree on this occasion with your "not even the slimmest of chances" assessment (BTW I read all your posts and generally respect the advicve you give).

I think you may have misread WX's results - I think he means Timberman 2011 (not 2012). So, after 5-6 months of cycling he rides a 2:33 (with mechanicals) and then runs a 1:25. Neither times are spectacular but certainly in the realms of Kona qualifier if he can improve his bike. The 2:40 open mara is not completely "meaningless" to the discussion - it goes some way to showing he has a good engine and at least the capability to KQ.

Go for it WX, yes it's a long shot but I think you're in the ballpark. What I would say is a 3:00 IM marathon is ambitious (especially with your lack of biking) - sub 3:15 is more realistic. As others have said focus on the bike, you need to be strong so you're in a postion off the bike to run to your potential. Swim - I'd not spend too much effort reducing your time (alot of training time for minimal return). If you can get out of the water in 70mins feeling very comfortable that will be far better than a 65min swim that leaves you shelled for the bike.

Top 3-4 in AG is the goal for KQ but ballpark I'd target times of 1:10 5:15 3:10. Will put you in around 9:40 mark, probably not enough for KQ but who knows on the day. Good luck and keep us posted.

Agreed.
For refernce, WX was only 2 spots behind ST'er Erik Reitinger, who swam even worse (even worse than ME! Sheesh!) -
but, who has since gone on to crush dreams at an IM (AG win, IIRC), and also win AmZof LC.

I dunno on what planet a 1:25:35 at Timberman is a "poor run", given that the AG winner Mike Lavery only broke 1:25 by :01.
And nobody else in the AG did.

WX is an excellent runner. Like I said before, just put that on the side burner for now.
Work on the swim and bike, and he's got a chance.
Get that IM swim down to 1:10 or lower, and be able to bike 5:0x to low 5:1x range, and then hopefully run to his potential.
Those things aren't a ridiculous stretch from where he was in '11, but it will definitely require focus and dedication.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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The op's 2:40 OM time would indicate that he has potential , and he probably has far more than 'not even the slimmest of chances' that you have granted him

1. This is poorly understood by many, but there is actually very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon there.* About the only thing these two share in common is that they are 26.2 miles long. Now, being a strong runner is a HUGE help, and you touched on that by siting it as having good "potential". But that's about it. So much of having a good run is based on how you have gone in the swim and bike and other factors such as nutrition.

2. What is diminishing the OP's chances is perhaps not his raw ability - I see some potential there - it's the time-line. Like many ambitious triathletes, it's WAY too aggressive. Many triathletes grossly under-estimate how long it takes to get to a certain level of fitness and performance. It seems close, but it's often measured in years of time. I said it before and it's worth repeating here, it takes 3 - 5 years of training to get ready to really train for an IM in the 9:30 range or better. Seriously. There are the odd freaks, who can truncate that time, but for most others, it's the long road that will yield success
.

* FWIW - the differential that you see amongst the very best triathletes from stand-alone Marathon to IM run split is about 20 minutes at around this speed. This is when everything comes together and you have optimal run performance in the IM. That being said, you rarely see the best AG triathletes, and Pro Triathletes, even the good running ones, actually run stand-alone marathons. It's something that many AG'ers do, but the best don't. Take from that what you like! :)



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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WX is an excellent runner. Like I said before, just put that on the side burner for now.
Work on the swim and bike, and he's got a chance.
Get that IM swim down to 1:10 or lower, and be able to bike 5:0x to low 5:1x range, and then hopefully run to his potential.
Those things aren't a ridiculous stretch from where he was in '11, but it will definitely require focus and dedication.

ML,

Agreed.

Huge focus needed on swim/bike, then prudent pacing and execution during the race to run to full potential. It's doable, what concerns me is the aggressive time-line, and the "one-shot". As you well know, IM races rarely go to plan. Way too many variables - some beyond your control. Too put all that pressure on a one-shot Kona IQ, in what I believe is a first IM race, might be asking for a bit too much.


Why the rush? Take a few years and build up to it. Establish a solid base line of performance at sprint to 70.3, then move on to IM. That will yield better overall results with more assurance.




Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
WX is an excellent runner. Like I said before, just put that on the side burner for now.
Work on the swim and bike, and he's got a chance.
Get that IM swim down to 1:10 or lower, and be able to bike 5:0x to low 5:1x range, and then hopefully run to his potential.
Those things aren't a ridiculous stretch from where he was in '11, but it will definitely require focus and dedication.

ML,

Agreed.

Huge focus needed on swim/bike, then prudent pacing and execution during the race to run to full potential. It's doable, what concerns me is the aggressive time-line, and the "one-shot". As you well know, IM races rarely go to plan. Way too many variables - some beyond your control. Too put all that pressure on a one-shot Kona IQ, in what I believe is a first IM race, might be asking for a bit too much.


Why the rush? Take a few years and build up to it. Establish a solid base line of performance at sprint to 70.3, then move on to IM. That will yield better overall results with more assurance.


Yeah, I think he has plenty of time and ability to make a great 70.3 season, as I suggested.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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shady wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
In my experience, considering the time fame he has provided, his results so far, yes, he would need to be a genetic anomaly to qualify. And I could care less if he uses me for motivation. And the fact that you use a Lance quote in your signature line speaks volumes.




So I Iike a doper's views on childhood and that kids - including my two little ones - should be out on their bikes testing their limits and..... it 'speaks volumes' of me?

Thats funny:)

.

Ignore me, I was just being pissy. :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Please update the quote (from the same song), this is more appropriate for this eventual train wreck....


His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:

1. This is poorly understood by many, but there is actually very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon there.* About the only thing these two share in common is that they are 26.2 miles long. Now, being a strong runner is a HUGE help, and you touched on that by siting it as having good "potential". But that's about it. So much of having a good run is based on how you have gone in the swim and bike and other factors such as nutrition.

2. What is diminishing the OP's chances is perhaps not his raw ability - I see some potential there - it's the time-line. Like many ambitious triathletes, it's WAY too aggressive. Many triathletes grossly under-estimate how long it takes to get to a certain level of fitness and performance. It seems close, but it's often measured in years of time. I said it before and it's worth repeating here, it takes 3 - 5 years of training to get ready to really train for an IM in the 9:30 range or better. Seriously. There are the odd freaks, who can truncate that time, but for most others, it's the long road that will yield success
.

This thread has got my interest, mainly because I'm in the same boat and attempting to KQ for 2014 at the end of this year. My bike/run times are remarkably similar to WX; strong run, weaker bike though with a good swim and I'm targeting 9:30-9:40 (M45-49) as the ballpark for a KQ spot. I don't intend to spend the next 3-5 years training to qualify, I'm having a solid crack at getting to Kona in 2014 and think it's a reasonable goal (I've only been back in triathlons for 9 months though I did race in the early/mid 90's so I have some background).

Interested in your comments Fleck, not sure I agree with the assertion there is "very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon". Agree a fast open Mara does not gaurantee a fast IM marathon but if you can't run a fast open marathon then you have little hope of fast IM marathon. I'd say the 2:40 shows that a sub 3:15 IM marathon is a realistic goal (BUT is hugely dependant on a comfortable swim and a strong bike so you can run to that potential).
Also, not clear why this time-line is "WAY too agressive". The OP has run a strong 1:25 half off a reasonable 2:33 bike 12 months ago and appears to have the right attitude and some endurance sports background. I think he's definitely a shot at it. Let's be honest a 9:3x is not spectacularly fast and with the times he's posted thus far is a realistic goal with solid and consistent training for the next 9 months+.

One suggestion WX - if possible I'd think about scheduling 2 IM's in your quest for Kona (I've got IM's in Dec 13 & Jun 14). It's a learning experience and I'd think you'll get alot of learnings from the 1st one. Who knows you may well get that KQ spot but if not that's a bunch of experience for your next shot. I think the bike will be the major determining factor in whether you're successful for a KQ spot - get stronger as in you can comfortably ride a 5:15 IM and I think you'll be close (assuming you don't mess up nutrition). Good luck, hope I'll see you in Kona in 2014!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [HKoldtimer] [ In reply to ]
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HKoldtimer wrote:
Fleck wrote:

1. This is poorly understood by many, but there is actually very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon there.* About the only thing these two share in common is that they are 26.2 miles long. Now, being a strong runner is a HUGE help, and you touched on that by siting it as having good "potential". But that's about it. So much of having a good run is based on how you have gone in the swim and bike and other factors such as nutrition.

2. What is diminishing the OP's chances is perhaps not his raw ability - I see some potential there - it's the time-line. Like many ambitious triathletes, it's WAY too aggressive. Many triathletes grossly under-estimate how long it takes to get to a certain level of fitness and performance. It seems close, but it's often measured in years of time. I said it before and it's worth repeating here, it takes 3 - 5 years of training to get ready to really train for an IM in the 9:30 range or better. Seriously. There are the odd freaks, who can truncate that time, but for most others, it's the long road that will yield success
.


This thread has got my interest, mainly because I'm in the same boat and attempting to KQ for 2014 at the end of this year. My bike/run times are remarkably similar to WX; strong run, weaker bike though with a good swim and I'm targeting 9:30-9:40 (M45-49) as the ballpark for a KQ spot. I don't intend to spend the next 3-5 years training to qualify, I'm having a solid crack at getting to Kona in 2014 and think it's a reasonable goal (I've only been back in triathlons for 9 months though I did race in the early/mid 90's so I have some background).

Interested in your comments Fleck, not sure I agree with the assertion there is "very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon". Agree a fast open Mara does not gaurantee a fast IM marathon but if you can't run a fast open marathon then you have little hope of fast IM marathon. I'd say the 2:40 shows that a sub 3:15 IM marathon is a realistic goal (BUT is hugely dependant on a comfortable swim and a strong bike so you can run to that potential).
Also, not clear why this time-line is "WAY too agressive". The OP has run a strong 1:25 half off a reasonable 2:33 bike 12 months ago and appears to have the right attitude and some endurance sports background. I think he's definitely a shot at it. Let's be honest a 9:3x is not spectacularly fast and with the times he's posted thus far is a realistic goal with solid and consistent training for the next 9 months+.

One suggestion WX - if possible I'd think about scheduling 2 IM's in your quest for Kona (I've got IM's in Dec 13 & Jun 14). It's a learning experience and I'd think you'll get alot of learnings from the 1st one. Who knows you may well get that KQ spot but if not that's a bunch of experience for your next shot. I think the bike will be the major determining factor in whether you're successful for a KQ spot - get stronger as in you can comfortably ride a 5:15 IM and I think you'll be close (assuming you don't mess up nutrition). Good luck, hope I'll see you in Kona in 2014!

Gotta love advice on KQ'ing from a non-KQ'er. 9:3x not that fast? How many people (non-pro) do you know personally who have done that, in any AG? Stateside, 30 from IMFL and 19 from IMAZ went sub 9:30 last year at THE fastest 2 IM's in NA. That's it. I'm guessing not more than another dozen or two at all other NA IM's. His Timberman splits of 2:33 and 1:25 = 3:58 + 5 for T1 and T2 + 35 min for his swim is a, what, 4:38? I highly doubt a 4:38 guy at Timberman is going to go 9:35 at IMSL. Can he go sub-10, maybe. But your suggestion of 5:15 + 3:15 (+ 5 for T1 & T2 + 1:10 swim) = 9:45 at best. Where does he gain 10-15 more min?

Until you guys hit :30/2:30/1:30 (give or take a minute or two for each), you won't sniff a 9:3x which you claim is "not spectacularly fast". I know a couple of guys who are 4:45+ 70.3'ers who have, for years, boldly stated they were going to go 9:30 for several of their past IM's. Result: NOT EVEN CLOSE as in NOT sub-10:30.

For both of you, take baby steps. Plan a solid season of 70.3's to cut your teeth and learn the ropes. Do an IM after that w/ ZERO goals other than to HAVE FUN and LEARN. I have literally met, seen, and coached 100's of people over the years who have these exact same overly ambitious, unrealistic goals. The results? About 1-2% KQ, 50+% have left the sport and never returned, 25% are perpetually injured, 20% are still aiming way too high, 3-4% KQ eventually.

______________________________________________________
Sub-9 IM. Navy SeaBee deep sea diver. Can Do!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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If you can only do 1 Ironman, why not spend a year or two just working on cycling and swimming? Just do consistent training that leaves lots of time for your wife and then do an IM when you have a better chance?

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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Irontri you may be right and the 9:3x remark was a bit flippant (though I never said 9:3x wasn't fast and certainly didn't talk about sub 9:30). I should have said a 9:3x time is a possibility for a guy that goes 4:39 in his first 70.3 with a 2:33 bike and 1:25 run after 6 months in the sport. He gets Top 30 overall (AG field) and Top 10 in his AG on his first outing so he's already FOP and has a 2:40 open marathon to his name.

Simplistically I was trying to say the OP has some pretty good credentials that suggests aiming for Kona is a realistic goal. He may or may not make it but he's certainly got a chance. The tone of some posts seemed to suggest he had no chance and should spend the next 3-5 years training before attempting it. Not disagreeing that's likely the ideal approach but nothing wrong giving it a shot now.

P.S. I did KQ though back in the day when it was a bit easier - just chose not to go. I've posted all the times you reference but don't get me wrong I do think 9:3x is fast!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
shady wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
In my experience, considering the time fame he has provided, his results so far, yes, he would need to be a genetic anomaly to qualify. And I could care less if he uses me for motivation. And the fact that you use a Lance quote in your signature line speaks volumes.




So I Iike a doper's views on childhood and that kids - including my two little ones - should be out on their bikes testing their limits and..... it 'speaks volumes' of me?

Thats funny:)

.

Ignore me, I was just being pissy. :)

Tapering? :)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [LoDewey] [ In reply to ]
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Better, polishing off a nice Zin. :)

And in regards to the exchange above, my negativity is not directed at the OP or his talents or potential. It's just based on the parameters he himself laid out: limited time to train for a hot race less then 10 months away during winter with a concerned spouse looking to pick up size able gains in bike specific fitness, yes, I am willing to say that's highly unliky and the costs if failure might be high.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Great goal...however my words of advice are slightly different. I would pass on the Ironman and work on your marriage for the first year. Why rush into racing Ironman? Enjoy married life and then see about working Ironman into it. It's totally a family committment and unless you have domestic niners (the wife's) complete backing I would pass. As others have stated time goal is nice, but you never know who will show up to race. The M25-29 AG can be brutal as there are many in that AG who are looking to go pro (though that AG is not normally as stacked as M30-34). If you do go for IM Los Cabos forget about who else is racing (you don't control that) and focus on what you do control. As a strong runner myself, the key to running off the bike well is bike fitness NOT necessarily run fitness as others have pointed out. Learn to pace the bike well and should be able to run well off the bike. Best of luck.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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"Work on the swim and bike, and he's got a chance."

ML, if you look at the constraints he's putting on his bike training "spin bike@the gym only July/August (no trainer), taking entire December off the bike during honeymoon, lives in boston", he's not going to get the work in on the bike he needs for a race in mid March.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [HKoldtimer] [ In reply to ]
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Interested in your comments Fleck, not sure I agree with the assertion there is "very little correlation between stand-alone marathon time, and how you can run in an IM for the marathon". Agree a fast open Mara does not gaurantee a fast IM marathon but if you can't run a fast open marathon then you have little hope of fast IM marathon. I'd say the 2:40 shows that a sub 3:15 IM marathon is a realistic goal (BUT is hugely dependant on a comfortable swim and a strong bike so you can run to that potential).
Also, not clear why this time-line is "WAY too agressive". The OP has run a strong 1:25 half off a reasonable 2:33 bike 12 months ago and appears to have the right attitude and some endurance sports background. I think he's definitely a shot at it. Let's be honest a 9:3x is not spectacularly fast and with the times he's posted thus far is a realistic goal with solid and consistent training for the next 9 months+.


1. The solid stand-alone marathon performance shows potential and that's about it.

2. Running a great marathon is not a requirement for running really well in an IM. In fact, many of to top AGers and Pros have NEVER run a marathon. IM running is a very different kind running.

3. Running close to 3:00 in an IM, means being able to knock out 7:00 min/miles for 26.2 miles on trashed legs. You need to get in so that in training that 7:00 min/mile pace is your easy-all-day-pace.

4. Yes, a 9:30 is not "spectacularly fast", but I think that many would be shocked at the work, the time and the durability required to move from 10:00 to that point.

5. That leads me to still be of the opinion that, the time-lines the OP is suggesting are too aggressive.

6. Finally, this one-shot mentality, for something with so many variables, both in the training and for the race itself, is a recipe for frustration and disappointment.
Sure their may be the odd freak-of-nature that can do this, and this board always, wrongly, hoists those folks up as an example of "the possible", when in fact, for most, it's bordering on impossible.

Not to brag, but just to add some credibility/direct-experience here - I went sub 9:30 numerous times, and qualified for IMH in 7 out of the 8 IM races that I did, back in a distant age of this great sport.


YMMV



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
4. Yes, a 9:30 is not "spectacularly fast", but I think that many would be shocked at the work, the time and the durability required to move from 10:00 to that point.


I'll echo this almost 100%.

For me personally, I would say the journey from 12:05 to sub-10 was approximately 20% fitness gain, and 80% experience over 27 month or so period.

The journey from sub-10 to where I am now is pretty much reversed - and has taken another 6 years.


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
Last edited by: sentania: Jul 5, 13 7:46
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, exactly Scott. And I would add the reason I included my race resume earlier wasn't to be a big shot but to illustrate that there are two ways to get the kind of paces needed for KQ, a few years of work or genetics. I won the genetic lottery and was fast enough within 10 months of my first triathlon to show up at IMAZ and go sub 10 and qualify. Had the OP shown up at his half and destroyed it OB not a lot of training then I would say his limited time may not be a prohibitive factor. But he didn't, so his journey will be about the work.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of interesting responses - many of them I agree with. I definitely think the OP has the "talent" to get there but given the "constraints" outlined, it will be VERY difficult to KQ out of the block. Many have pointed out the training challenges he faces (swimming, technique, yardage, etc. .... bike mileage & quality workouts, running, indoor training, spin bike, etc).

Perhaps he can make some great progress in all three disciplines through training but the one thing he is highly unlikely able to do without actual racing (race experience) .... is the NUTRITION component. As "irontri" mentioned in first post "To successfully KQ, you need a combination of the following: time, money, smarts, luck, experience, and determination. Not all are necessarily required, but if you are lacking in more than one, it will be next to impossible. I'll expand on each and explain further"

I'm going to add "nutrition" to that list - unless that's dialed-in ... all bets are off and it becomes a really rough day out there on the run course if not sooner on the bike. I'm sure many of us have been there - done that. (I have).

Best of luck to you.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I think you need to re-think goal, not to say you can't do it but running a marathon it waaaaay different than getting off a bike and then running. I run sub 3's and never been able to come close on IM. Setting real goals make it more fun, don't set yourself up for a fall.




The harder the challenge, the more fruitful the reward!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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For the OP let me put some perspective on Fleck's sub 9;30's. Those sub 9;30's of Fleck's came from an era where 9:30 was really fast, not today's era where in many Ag races around the world 9:30 won't put you in the top 15 in your AG.

I'd say Fleck's sub 9:30's are equivalent to going 15-20min faster in today's era.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
For the OP let me put some perspective on Fleck's sub 9;30's. Those sub 9;30's of Fleck's came from an era where 9:30 was really fast, not today's era where in many Ag races around the world 9:30 won't put you in the top 15 in your AG.

I'd say Fleck's sub 9:30's are equivalent to going 15-20min faster in today's era.

Are you saying this because in Fleck's era at that speed there were less guys around him, he was racing with slower rubber, on slower bikes and a slower helmet. This would be music to his ears!!! I'd say 10 min for equipment, and 5 min for density of field.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone for your inputs. Did not know I could come to ST for free marriage counseling - this could be the next big application of the wisdom of crowds.

From the feedback, I am going to put in a huge bike focus and see if that translates to some truly meaningful gains - I'm going to spend the next month ramping up volume and avoiding injury. The other big piece of news is that I officially just sent WTC $700 for IM Texas in May. The extra month and half of training (20% higher than my original total) will help make this impossible goal slightly less impossible.

Week 1 training summary:
(BST: Before ST)
Monday: Run 5m
Tuesday: Run 9m w/ 5@6:10 pace (MP)
(AST: After ST)
Wednesday: Bike 15m doing hill repeats, run 2m@5:30 (running last-minute errand)
Thursday: Bike 25m cruise w/ hills (~140bpm)
Friday: AM: Bike 12m, w/ 2x6' all out, 6' recovery. PM: run 6m, w/ 6x 2' on 2' off fartleks
Saturday: AM: Bike 15m, w/2x15' at threshold (what I can hold for 1hr), 5' recovery. PM: run 4m
Sunday: AM: Bike 15m@just below threshold. PM: Bike 18m cruise
Weekly total: 110m bike (7 hours), 26m run (3 hours)

Plan for next week - more biking! Do a HR max test, 2x20', and 5x6' workouts. Some questions:
1. I have trouble raising my HR above 170 on the bike, while I can raise my HR to 190+ running. Is that normal? My legs just feel like they're doing all they can.
2. As you can see, I don't have huge blocks of time for long bike rides. At this point, are these 45m-90m workouts good uses of time or do gains happen at the end of a 40/50-miler? How should I prioritize hill work vs. flat cranking?
3. Any other feedback always appreciated. Marriage is still going well. Just came back from a romantic weekend in Napa and bought wines for each of our next 10 anniversaries (optimism runs beyond just training goals).
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, it is not uncommon to see a HR of anywhere from 5-10 bpm's lower on the bike then run. I wouldn't concern yourself with Max HR if you are using HR for training, instead do a TT to determine your threshold HR.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX,

I'm wondering about your inclusion of hill repeats on the bike. Are you using these as VO2 max workout? You will find that IMTX has very little in the way of real hills.
Just to give you an idea, my 58 year old wife raced the entire course in the big chain ring . It's a course where you should be riding aero 99+% of the time so if you're practicing hill repeats sitting up or standing you're doing something very unlike the demands of the race. One thing I find with many triathletes is that they race the way they train. Those who group ride a lot with bike racers jam every hill and drag race out of every corner. If you pattern yourself to hammer the hills in training that's almost certainly what you will do automatically when you race and your excellent run potential will end up paying the price. To ride hills well you need a solid FTP, appropriate gearing and restrain in your pacing. There is nothing magic to doing them beyond that.


YMMV,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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See *** for answers

1. I have trouble raising my HR above 170 on the bike, while I can raise my HR to 190+ running. Is that normal?*****yes

2. As you can see, I don't have huge blocks of time for long bike rides. At this point, are these 45m-90m workouts good uses of time or do gains happen at the end of a 40/50-miler? ****they are a use of time, how good depends what you do.
How should I prioritize hill work vs. flat cranking? ****It depends. You should prioritize work not riding.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Based on his lack of bike training experience and the goal, this guy really needs a coach....

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice.

Was going to add the same. Not only is everyone a coach, but a marriage counselor! Is there any way you could start including relationship tips to my plans?

"One Line Robert"
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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When did Brian get on the short list of relationship coaches?


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
I won the genetic lottery and was fast enough within 10 months of my first triathlon to show up at IMAZ and go sub 10 and qualify. Had the OP shown up at his half and destroyed it OB not a lot of training then I would say his limited time may not be a prohibitive factor. But he didn't, so his journey will be about the work.

Is going sub 10, "destroying it" at AZ?

I showed up at AZ after 11 months of solid work anticipating to go 9:30 and grab a slot. I went 9:36 and missed it by two spots (think I would have needed sub 9:18 if I remember right). First marathon, first ironman, blah, whatever. And I'd say that the OP has more fitness than I did at the start of that 11 months. I think the difference between what hes trying to do and what I did was that I sacrificed a lot to get there - time and relationships. I hired a coach. Bought a powermeter. Read everything possible. Experimented with nutrition until I got it right. I left no stone un turned. But 4 others were faster than me on that day. Which is why making a KQ a one time only goal is futile. You can't control who shows up.

Bryan, I'm not at all diminishing your KQ at AZ but would you not agree that it had just as much to do with who was there on the day as it did with whatever fitness you brought with you? Never mind that you did it how many years ago and the slots went how deep in your AG?

"One Line Robert"
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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sentania wrote:
When did Brian get on the short list of relationship coaches?

My point exactly.

But maybe he should be? I'll test the waters and report back.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks and good points. From digesting most of the bike training lit on the internets, my current strategy is to be in "sweet spot" (upper Z3) for the majority of my riding, with some higher-end work to stretch out my capacity. In theory, I'm aiming for:
35% cruising (Z2)
55% upper Z3 - mindful of the "plateau" but my fitness is not there yet where this should be a concern
10% higher - 1 2x15/2x20 tempo, 1 5-6x6' hard workout per week, 1 20x1' on, 1' off every few weeks for VO2

Does that seem like a reasonable plan for this base period? For "build" I'm just going to add volume to Z2 and Z3, without adding more fast stuff.
Last edited by: WX: Jul 8, 13 11:05
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I finished in 9:43, was 4th in the AG, the last slot went 9:59, I think it was the first year all M35-39 qualifiers finished sub 10. I was also lije the 12th amatuer OA. In 2009 I was 3rd with a 9:20 at IMAZ and I don't think any M40-44 qualifiers went sub 9:30. The point isn't so much the OP's time it's his placing. Placing is ALL that matters in Kona Qualifying. That's it. So being 10th at a 70.3 and then wanting to be 1-2 at a full is a big ask.

So focusing on time is irrelevant, everyone fighting for Kona slots is fast and getting faster. Had the OP been in the 70.3 podium, say top 3, then that would say this guy has the goods to step up and deliver given enough preparation. 10th says to me this is going to take more time then he has allowed for.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 8, 13 11:16
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
I finished in 9:43, was 4th in the AG, the last slot went 9:59, I think it was the first year all M35-39 qualifiers finished sub 10. I was also lije the 12th amatuer OA. In 2009 I was 3rd with a 9:20 at IMAZ and I don't think any M40-44 qualifiers went sub 9:30. The point isn't so much the OP's time it's his placing. Placing is ALL that matters in Kona Qualifying. That's it. So being 10th at a 70.3 and then wanting to be 1-2 at a full is a big ask.

And my point is that previous placing doesn't much matter. He was 9th behind who? What matters is who's there (and there was some talent that showed up in his AG that day - Pat Wheeler - now pro, Matt Curbeau - qualified for his pro card, Eric Retinger, Mike Lavery). And you can't control that part.

His goal (as opposed to a KQ) should simply be to obtain as much fitness as possible, prepare in every way imaginable and aim to execute flawlessly on the day and hope for the best.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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WX should take your advice on 70.3 and do the half in Hawaii 70.3. Don't they give out Kona slats there?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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If I recall correctly, he first qualified when IMAZ was a spring race. The April IMAZ races were not as fast as the November races.

2005-08 were spring races, 2 IMAZ races in '08 (April & November), November only since 2009.
Last edited by: kbd: Jul 8, 13 11:24
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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In April 2007, yes.


Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
I finished in 9:43, was 4th in the AG, the last slot went 9:59, I think it was the first year all M35-39 qualifiers finished sub 10. I was also lije the 12th amatuer OA. In 2009 I was 3rd with a 9:20 at IMAZ and I don't think any M40-44 qualifiers went sub 9:30. The point isn't so much the OP's time it's his placing. Placing is ALL that matters in Kona Qualifying. That's it. So being 10th at a 70.3 and then wanting to be 1-2 at a full is a big ask.


And my point is that previous placing doesn't much matter. He was 9th behind who? What matters is who's there (and there was some talent that showed up in his AG that day - Pat Wheeler - now pro, Matt Curbeau - qualified for his pro card, Eric Retinger, Mike Lavery). And you can't control that part.

His goal (as opposed to a KQ) should simply be to obtain as much fitness as possible, prepare in every way imaginable and aim to execute flawlessly on the day and hope for the best.


Yeah, for sure. Lets face, we are all just spit balling here, I am just presenting the case that I don't think there is enough bike swim innate talent and enough time to do this in the time frame and training time the OP has allowed for. It's just my opinion, and we know what that's good for. :)

So considering previous results, time to train, time of year he will be training, date of race, and based on the most recent posts not a lot of bike training experience...you can see my point.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 8, 13 11:33
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw this thread and read through the whole thing. Best of luck to you! Keep us all posted on your training.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [terencejk05] [ In reply to ]
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Week 2 update!

Summary: 140 miles biking, 36 miles running for a total time of 12:20 (all-time high for me).

Without boring everyone with minutia, I just wanted to highlight one thing... I went to a spinning studio with power for the first time! Didn't do an FTP test yet (that'll be this week, I hope), but did do the following workout:

WU w/ spin ups
Set 1: 15 minutes @ "80% intensity - going by feel", with 5 30 second sprints interspersed. 215W during steady
Set 2: 2x (3'@ 235W, 1'@ 330W, 1.5' rest, 2'@ 235W, 1'@330W, 1.5' rest, 1'@235W, 1'@330W, 1.5' rest)

These results are not really interpretable, but this doesn't stop me from trying! I am going to optimistically suggest that this effort hints that my FTP is around the 230-240W range? At 63kg, that's a bit under 4w/kg, which seems pretty reasonable. Goal would be to get FTP up to 280 and weight down to 60kg, which would be more helpful on a hillier course, but oh well, I can't have everything.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Week 2 update!

Summary: 140 miles biking, 36 miles running for a total time of 12:20 (all-time high for me).

Without boring everyone with minutia, I just wanted to highlight one thing... I went to a spinning studio with power for the first time! Didn't do an FTP test yet (that'll be this week, I hope), but did do the following workout:

WU w/ spin ups
Set 1: 15 minutes @ "80% intensity - going by feel", with 5 30 second sprints interspersed. 215W during steady
Set 2: 2x (3'@ 235W, 1'@ 330W, 1.5' rest, 2'@ 235W, 1'@330W, 1.5' rest, 1'@235W, 1'@330W, 1.5' rest)

These results are not really interpretable, but this doesn't stop me from trying! I am going to optimistically suggest that this effort hints that my FTP is around the 230-240W range? At 63kg, that's a bit under 4w/kg, which seems pretty reasonable. Goal would be to get FTP up to 280 and weight down to 60kg, which would be more helpful on a hillier course, but oh well, I can't have everything.

Was this on a spin bike (Keiser or similar)? Then those numbers are useless. All you know is that when it said '300' you did more work than when it said '200'. The numbers are not comparable between bikes (even in the same studio), and on the same bike not between sessions (or even in the same session; I had one of them drift noticeably as the studio and the bike heated up).

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Jan de Visser] [ In reply to ]
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It was on a Cyclops 300 Pro trainer (http://www.cycleops.com/...71&category_id=7)

Not perfect, but I think in the ballpark.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
It was on a Cyclops 300 Pro trainer (http://www.cycleops.com/...71&category_id=7)

Not perfect, but I think in the ballpark.

Interesting. Never seen those. Has a PowerTap in it, so should work reasonably well I guess. Positioning is also a lot better than on your average spin bike. I reckon this is not at your average Goodlife Fitness style gym, but something a more endurance sport focussed, no?

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Interested to hear how your training has gone over the last 6 weeks?

In a similar situation giving it a go in Texas. I did an ironman 7 years ago and making a 'comeback'. 2:38 open marathoner. going about it a little different though training with power & cycling coach
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [dooley34] [ In reply to ]
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dooley34 wrote:
Interested to hear how your training has gone over the last 6 weeks?

In a similar situation giving it a go in Texas. I did an ironman 7 years ago and making a 'comeback'. 2:38 open marathoner. going about it a little different though training with power & cycling coach

Glad to hear it! Although I hope we're not in the same age group... :)

Was going to wait until after this weekend to update as I have my first race coming up - Lobsterman Oly. Not worried too much about the overall time as I haven't swam all summer, but would love to see how my other splits come out. In terms of training, I think I'm ~30 watts better than two months ago on the bike and <2:40 marathon pace for the run. Will keep you posted on my results.

Are you doing different workouts now on the bike than before?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't been riding much over the summer due to a running focus and time constraints. I've just begun putting in some short rides before going through some base testing with the cycling coach. i'll be 30-34 for texas.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX

I was thinking of going to Miamiman for the winter .5 or maybe do the bone island in january. Have you ever done these before?

BTW I live in boston (littleton metrowest) and it is really a cycle friendly place so I bike to work a few times a week. It takes the same time on a bike as it would in a car in traffic and I save $953 every 21 days (tolls parking and gas.) At lunch I run or swim (BSC has pools) or hit walden pond in the morning before work (wife never knows.) just thought I would share a few tricks to keeping wife happy ( 3 kids 2 dogs guina pig and a fish. - happy wife happy life)

Good luck!!

Ron
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
Bryancd wrote:

And my point is that previous placing doesn't much matter. He was 9th behind who? What matters is who's there (and there was some talent that showed up in his AG that day - Pat Wheeler - now pro, Matt Curbeau - qualified for his pro card, Eric Retinger, Mike Lavery). And you can't control that part.

His goal (as opposed to a KQ) should simply be to obtain as much fitness as possible, prepare in every way imaginable and aim to execute flawlessly on the day and hope for the best.


Yeah, for sure. Lets face, we are all just spit balling here, I am just presenting the case that I don't think there is enough bike swim innate talent and enough time to do this in the time frame and training time the OP has allowed for. It's just my opinion, and we know what that's good for. :)

So considering previous results, time to train, time of year he will be training, date of race, and based on the most recent posts not a lot of bike training experience...you can see my point.

Alright, so I had my first real race of the season, and my first Olympic distance tri at Lobsterman this weekend. Results first, then explanation later. Here's the link if people can give me better insights on how I compare to other racers: http://www.lobstermantri.com/results/#/results

Overall time: 2:20:30, good for 20th overall and 10th in division. So now you're thinking, he is so far away from being competitive he should give up right? Well, there are a few encouraging signs that came out of this:

1. Swim time of 35 minutes. I lost sight of the second buoy and went way off course. I'm no shark by any means and just started swimming this past week after 2 years off, but I feel like my cruise times of 1:45/100scy with only open turns should translate better than this in open-water and wetsuit. 35 is just terrible. I need to sight better.

2. I had the 9th overall bike split at 1:05 with high crr tires (my conti's haven't arrived yet from PBK) and box rims on a rolling course of 1,700+ elevation gain. Other finishers around my pace seem to be ~1:02 on other courses.

3. My calf cramped up and I couldn't really stride out on the run, resulting in a 38:09 10K. It was hilly and I can (and should) do a lot better. I have also not done any VO2Max workouts, focusing on strength (e.g., 6x1mile @ 5:45 pace) that will help me in longer races.

Next race is Miami 70.3 in a month, over which I will put a big focus in on the swim, keep pushing ftp on the bike, and maintaining the run. As always, any and all feedback welcome. I have also decided to splurge for a powermeter over the winter sufferfest season. Excited!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I'm definitely not as knowledgable on this as many of the posters above were, nor have I even come close to qualifying!

That said, reading what you did at the Olympic, does seem promising, swim aside.

You're getting close to being able to go sub 2:00 if you can get down to a 1/2 decent swim, which you said you would start working on this month with coaching (have you started?)...

1:05 on the bike with a 38 minute run following it is pretty good, it's showing you are not fully blowing up after pushing your bike...Do you feel you can hold the percentage of that bike speed you need to qualify and run as well of the bike? Getting the FTP up is great...For Olympic distance races, but can you translate it to a 5 hour bike ride followed by a 3:15 marathon?

Also, how goes the bike training? What is FTP up to?

I'm excited to see if you pull this off and follow your training and build up.

Good Luck WX, Good Luck!

-----------------------------------------------------------
"Chrissie wins because she trains really f'ing hard and races really f'ing hard and was blessed with a huge f'ing motor" Jordan Rapp
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Crmurphy] [ In reply to ]
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Going form 1:05 to 1:00 flat that needed to go sub 2 unless your a top swimmer or runner is a HUGE jump in speed. 1:05 is a somewhat pedestrian 22.8mph. 1:00 is of course 24.8 mph. Unless you have big aero imrpovements in position or equipment to be made, you probably have to almost double your training volume or dramatically imrpove your quality to get there. I know, that's what it took for me but I'm still only at 1:01.

But you said box rimes and traiing tires, so that could be a good 1mph you left on the table.

I'd say your getting close, but you'll need more. At this point a 70.3 will be a better test to prove your metal toughness and nutrition plans. Within the ability ot really suffer in the run and have a solid nutirition plan, you'll be in trouble. I was a little off at my last HIM and it cost me probably 4-5 minutes and a LOT of suffering. In a IM that's probably magnified to 20-30 minutes and kissing any shot at a KQ goodbye.


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Last edited by: motoguy128: Sep 16, 13 6:40
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Lest you think I am always a wet blanket, most encouraging is you had the 3rd best run split. Clearly you have the run talent to be competitive. But the bike is such a disproportionally huge part of an Ironman that you may never have the opportunity to let that run out you into contention for a slot, made more difficult if you are so far back in the water. And you will be pretty far back out the water, swim gains in such a short period if time are the hardest to achieve.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Lest you think I am always a wet blanket, most encouraging is you had the 3rd best run split. Clearly you have the run talent to be competitive. But the bike is such a disproportionally huge part of an Ironman that you may never have the opportunity to let that run out you into contention for a slot, made more difficult if you are so far back in the water. And you will be pretty far back out the water, swim gains in such a short period if time are the hardest to achieve.

There are 2 sides to this. Swim gains in speed and basic swim fitness.

A really crappy olympic distance swim almost never hurts the Olympic distance run. A 50 min half IM swim barely hurts the half marathon at the end (it will some). a 1:40 IM swim, can easily turn a 3:10 runner into a 4:10 runner. So I'd say that the OP has to stop worrying about the run and bike training and get the swim in order. Have you noticed how many good Ironman athletes come from a strong swim background? No suprises there, even though the swim seems to be such a small percent of the Ironman day.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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No, but a really crappy swim in an Olympic destroys the entire race as it's proportionally a greater % of the race. A half swim is only a couple 100 meters longer so you can get away with a weaker swim. I know you are taking energy required and the impact in the run. I am talking about placement as that will be the deciding factor for WX in his effort to KQ.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Lest you think I am always a wet blanket, most encouraging is you had the 3rd best run split. Clearly you have the run talent to be competitive. But the bike is such a disproportionally huge part of an Ironman that you may never have the opportunity to let that run out you into contention for a slot, made more difficult if you are so far back in the water. And you will be pretty far back out the water, swim gains in such a short period if time are the hardest to achieve.

Also keep in mind that based on some reports, if you're not under abotu 1:05... tack on another 1 minute minimum getting through transition and losing another 1-2 minutes out on the course passing slower bike traffic.

I know that a KQ in my age group means that you're among the top 40 in the entire race including pros. If you can come out of the water in the top 100, that's a huge benefit in terms of who you get to ride with, less traffic easier time with handoffs at aide stations on the 1st lap, etc. Hard ot go for a KQ when your over 1:10 unless your a solid cyclist to make up for it. At this poinit as mentioned, while a very solid runner, you still need ot get a lot faster on the bike. Yes, you did have slow wheels.

For comparision, I rode 56mi Sat with box rims, a 25c gatorskin in rear and a 28c commuter tire in front, standard helmet and rode around about the middle of zone 2 (just a little below IM pace). I also rode about 20% of the time sitting up and stopped twice to pee, rolling hills. Average pace was 19.5mph. That same ride with my race wheels and staying aero more is around 21.5mph.

So OTOH, you might not be too far off on the bike. a 1:06 with yur set-up might get you to abotu 1:00:30 with a good set of wheels and aero helmet depending on the course. But you again, need ot be stronger on hte bike because of your swim and so you can still run well off the bike.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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This. And its not even fair to the OP to compare an oly result to how he might fare in an IM. I know guys who can go sub 2 oly (or very close) and smoking fast over a 70.3 and still fall apart in an IM. Right now I'd say long shot, but we'll see how the 70.3 goes. IF he were one of the stronger bike/runners in an IM event, you could maybe get away with a 1:10-1:15 swim. Lots of work to do there. Luckily, it doesn't really take much to get to that point. Good luck OP, looking forward to seeing how the next one goes.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [apbadger] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the update! Keep updating us here. Don't worry about those who are trying to drag you down. Yes, some are trying to give you good advice and encouragement - just listen to those posts. Give it your best shot!

I would work on your swim stroke (shoot, if you don't have a swim coach right now just watch some Total Immersion Swim videos on youtube or something). Just keep working on your swim form hard for the next few months. Also, put lots and lots of time on the bike. Use Trainer Road or something similar that can help you get some really quality workouts in.

Swim efficiently, and get lots of quality bike rides in. You're a runner so naturally you'll be fine there.

Also, not to be underestimated, try to keep learning. While you are running throw on a good podcast like "Training Bible Coaching Podcast". They have tons of great past episodes, and you are going to learn something on each one. You'll gain encouragement and wisdom each time. They also have course previews for a lot of the races.

Good luck, and keep updating us!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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The good:

The run was 6.4, and the swim was long and against the tide. I was 25:55 - 5 minutes slower than a normal olympic. So add probably 3-4 minutes, and that's your current half im swim (38min). That bike course is also very difficult. On the same watts you could definitely break 60min. I did back to back sub 60min 40k's at Eagleman on less watts than it took to go 1:03 on Saturday. I have a very good setup and very aggressive position though.

The bad:

I rode 1:03:55 on the same watts I rode at Timberman, where I rode 2:21. (This weekend I was coming off a half ironman 5 days prior - Pumpkinman - so I was just doing Lobsterman for fun, since it's one of my favorite courses. My legs were still pretty roasted, so the bike and run were actually a bit slower watts and pace wise than Pumpkinman). Assuming you could hold the same wattage and run the same pace for 56 miles and 13.1 miles respectively, and knock off quite a few minutes off your swim - I'd say you have a shot at qualifying. But it won't be easy. I had a very good day at Timberman, but didn't even win my age group. I was also 2nd at Eagleman on an ok day and didn't qualify for Kona. So you'll need a race with a lot of slots up for grabs since winning won't be guaranteed.

If there's any advice I can give, it's don't underestimate the amount of work or experience necessary to race long course well. You're going to need to ride your bike a lot - not just hard - but also a lot of time in the saddle. Definitely 5 hour rides every weekend. I'd probably ride long on Sat and Sun if I were you. And you'll need to run a lot too. You'll also need to figure out fueling. It took me 5 halves before I took in enough fuel (I personally don't burn any fat, haha). I'd be fucked in an IM - and certainly don't plan on hitting a respectable time in my first attempt. So you're gonna need to figure that stuff out in training. If you were some kind of genetic freak, or you had run 100+ mpw in college, then you might be able to get away with a moderate training load. But since you're one of us regular folks, you're honestly going to need to hit 20 hours a week between now and the race to have a shot. If you're serious about wanting to qualify, you have to commit pretty much everything to it. If you were taking a longer term approach that might not be true, but since you've given yourself such a short window, you really have to go all in. It took me about 4 years of moderate/consistent work and high run mileage winters to get where I'm at, and I came from a running and swimming background.

If you want me to put you in touch with the right people in Boston, shoot me a pm or email.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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He's 25-29, assuming he doesn't age up next year he will be lucky to have 3 slots in the AG. And I don't see that I or anyone else is being negative towards him. I think we are being frank and realistic considering the amount if training time the OP has committed to this.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to be negative either, just realistic. And give him some perspective since I did the same race last weekend. It's not *too* late to put in the work necessary to qualify, but it's going to need to be an insane amount of work.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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snackchair wrote:
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be negative either, just realistic. And give him some perspective since I did the same race last weekend. It's not *too* late to put in the work necessary to qualify, but it's going to need to be an insane amount of work.

Agreed and he has stated he can only give 12 hours per week.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
He's 25-29, assuming he doesn't age up next year he will be lucky to have 3 slots in the AG. And I don't see that I or anyone else is being negative towards him. I think we are being frank and realistic considering the amount if training time the OP has committed to this.

Yes, only 3 slots, but the depth of the FOP field is I think usually thinner. Talking with a couple guys that KQ'd at IMWI in the younger age groups, they'd have ot get a LOT faster ot KQ in 30-34, 35-39, 40-44.

Younger guys also recover faster, so you need less recovery. With only 12 hours to work with, the focus should be developing power on the bike, technique and sprinting on the swim, and then fitting in whatever running volume you can between. The least focus on the run.

If it's only 12 hours, then it needs to be 12 hours orf well planned and structured workouts each and every week.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [apbadger] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
IF he were one of the stronger bike/runners in an IM event, you could maybe get away with a 1:10-1:15 swim

A 1;15 takes him out completely. There are probably < 15 people in the world who swim that on a legit course and KQ. A 1;10 is on the bubble you need a race with 7 slots minimal. It's hard to get into the top 10 with that swim even with a strong bike and run. I've seen it done about 10x, it's always been one of the last 2 spots in a 75-100 KQ spot field or in 50% of the cases a roll down.

If I was a 1;15 swimmer I'd roll the dice with some serious pool work for a few months, 30-40k per week.

EDIT: forgot he's 25-29 which makes it easier. Thought he was 30-34 or 35-39

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Last edited by: desert dude: Sep 16, 13 10:50
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
In Reply To:
IF he were one of the stronger bike/runners in an IM event, you could maybe get away with a 1:10-1:15 swim


A 1;15 takes him out completely. /quote]

Thanks everyone (including Bryan, and I'm being honest) for your cador and advice. One question on this... A 1:15/5:00/3:05 + transitions seems like it'd still be a pretty good race - is there an outsized benefit to getting out of the water 5 minutes faster? Is it just to have a good pack to ride with?

I'm definitely going to up my swim to 5x/week. Hopefully 15K won't cause my shoulders to fall off. 30-40K/week definitely will at this point of my swim fitness.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
Yes, only 3 slots, but the depth of the FOP field is I think usually thinner. Talking with a couple guys that KQ'd at IMWI in the younger age groups, they'd have ot get a LOT faster ot KQ in 30-34, 35-39, 40-44.


Calling bullshit on this. I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35. And that's with my abysmal 1:19 swim in my first go round at 140.6. I promise you I'm no genetic freak (for what it's worth, I think of myself a MOPer) and did not put in many weeks over 12 hours. N=1 here.

tweets.
Last edited by: siegfried08: Sep 17, 13 0:02
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...5 flat bike followed be a 3:05 run, huh? Well, I do the flat bike, but I train 6000+ miles per year on the bike which will be beyond your allowable weekly time allowance. And the best I have ever run off a 4:54 bike was a 3:21 run on a flat IMAZ course. So you pretty much are going to go from being slower then me currently in swim/bike to faster within the next what, 10 months? On 12 hours per week. This is why I am having difficulty seeing how you can do that, again within the time frame you have.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Sep 17, 13 5:43
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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A 1;15 takes him out completely.


You should read the race report posted from Noahman. He was in the 40-44 age group in WI, swam 1:32 and qualified for Kona

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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But he was 6th in an AG with 2X the available slots.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's probable. Random outliers make terrible evidence.

There's no way a 10:25 qualifies in the 25-29 age group.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's probable. Random outliers make terrible evidence.


I'm not trying to prove anything, just trying to give the OP some encouragement.

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
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Yes and no. The guys I was talking to at my last 70.3 had qualified in 18-24 in 2012. 25-29 did seem comparable because having less slots, meant that while a top 5 was slightly slower, getting a top 3 for a KQ was in fact harder.

However, 1-3 in 35-39 was a LOT faster tha nthe top finisher in 25-29, but things dropped off quickly after that. It seems like the top 1-3 in 30-34 and 35-39 are often fast enough and may have even achieved the qualifying standard to go professional but choose not to. Probably for family or personal reasons. Those fast enough to go pro under 30, probably jump at the chance since they figure they have more future protential. Just a theory. Jsut go to USAT and look at hte season ending rankings and the number of "*" after those at the top of 30-40, vs. <30. Some guys like Iott and Zucco enjoy kicking age group butt. Seems like one or both of them are on the starting lists of at least one IM 70.3 every month.

Sometimes I wish they had some kind of provisional slots that used the USAT scoring system to determine a qualifying time to allocate a couple extra slots to the next 2 or 3 fastest athletes that might have missed out because their age group was deeper at the top than usual. IT is kind of crap when a 35-39 guy going a 10:09 gets in but maybe a 25-29 or 30-34 at 10:04 doesn't. Either that or maybe a amature version of the pro point system as an alternate qualifier. I guess it just makes those on the bubble have to train that much harder and have that perfect race.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
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siegfried08 wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:

Yes, only 3 slots, but the depth of the FOP field is I think usually thinner. Talking with a couple guys that KQ'd at IMWI in the younger age groups, they'd have ot get a LOT faster ot KQ in 30-34, 35-39, 40-44.


Calling bullshit on this. I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35. And that's with my abysmal 1:19 swim in my first go round at 140.6. I promise you I'm no genetic freak (for what it's worth, I think of myself a MOPer) and did not put in many weeks over 12 hours. N=1 here.

IMWI also has the weakest field, being it's so close to Kona.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lotzn3119] [ In reply to ]
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lotzn3119 wrote:
siegfried08 wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:

Yes, only 3 slots, but the depth of the FOP field is I think usually thinner. Talking with a couple guys that KQ'd at IMWI in the younger age groups, they'd have ot get a LOT faster ot KQ in 30-34, 35-39, 40-44.


Calling bullshit on this. I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35. And that's with my abysmal 1:19 swim in my first go round at 140.6. I promise you I'm no genetic freak (for what it's worth, I think of myself a MOPer) and did not put in many weeks over 12 hours. N=1 here.


IMWI also has the weakest field, being it's so close to Kona.

It does seem like it's heavier on locals. Is it truely weaker?... or do those looking to KQ more the one & done type just taking and earlier shot. Lots of strategies there. I bet you have the least rolldowns. Who's going to pass up a KQ slot for hte following year.

It might be a thinner field in part because it's not a flat drag strips bike that seems to draw a lot of folks looking to kq.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35

You also forgot about M30-34.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I think the strength of the IMWI course ebbs and flows.

Some years it's epic, other years it's not.

It's also definitely not a drag race.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Wow...5 flat bike followed be a 3:05 run, huh? Well, I do the flat bike, but I train 6000+ miles per year on the bike which will be beyond your allowable weekly time allowance. And the best I have ever run off a 4:54 bike was a 3:21 run on a flat IMAZ course. So you pretty much are going to go from being slower then me currently in swim/bike to faster within the next what, 10 months? On 12 hours per week. This is why I am having difficulty seeing how you can do that, again within the time frame you have.

This is what most people new to the sport don't understand--it takes A LOT of work usually put in over a few years in order to qualify unless you've got some serious talent. The people putting in 15-20 hrs/week for a couple of seasons have a serious advantage over someone putting in 10-12 hours/week.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I think this provisional slot would be kind of cool. Maybe even just say the fastest age grouper that didn't get a slot through their age group after the roll down. it would only be 2 slots but not sure how that would effect the overall break out of that particular races slots.

In regards to the original poster's training and goals, anything is possible if you have a strong athletic base and depending how quickly you 'pick things up'. There was a guy who used to do the local tri store's group rides who went from complete newbie who'd just bought a bike at the beginning of the season to destroying guys and eventually racing a continental cup or two by the end of the season. The guy had a massive distance swim background and was just a total natural talent. I don't think he realized that running 16 flat off a hard bike was as impressive as those around him. Granted, IM is a different animal but stranger things have happened.

All that said, does it seem likely. Not so much but it's cool to see someone putting there goals out there and trying to get what help he can given apparent limited resources and time.

I took about a 6 year break from Ironman (barely missed a KQ) before going for it again last summer in Louisville. I pushed pretty hard but eventually didn't make it to the start line when I broke my foot a month out. I took this whole year off tri and just mostly ran (not a ton but it's my background/first love) and will be headed to Texas to try and qualify again. While my time/resources aren't quite so limited, I'm putting those energies into the bike (via power & bike coaching) to try and make the most out of my run. Just thinking about trying to do it on 12 hrs seems like a tough ask.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
Yes and no. The guys I was talking to at my last 70.3 had qualified in 18-24 in 2012. 25-29 did seem comparable because having less slots, meant that while a top 5 was slightly slower, getting a top 3 for a KQ was in fact harder.

However, 1-3 in 35-39 was a LOT faster tha nthe top finisher in 25-29, but things dropped off quickly after that. It seems like the top 1-3 in 30-34 and 35-39 are often fast enough and may have even achieved the qualifying standard to go professional but choose not to. Probably for family or personal reasons. Those fast enough to go pro under 30, probably jump at the chance since they figure they have more future protential. Just a theory. Jsut go to USAT and look at hte season ending rankings and the number of "*" after those at the top of 30-40, vs. <30. Some guys like Iott and Zucco enjoy kicking age group butt. Seems like one or both of them are on the starting lists of at least one IM 70.3 every month.

Sometimes I wish they had some kind of provisional slots that used the USAT scoring system to determine a qualifying time to allocate a couple extra slots to the next 2 or 3 fastest athletes that might have missed out because their age group was deeper at the top than usual. IT is kind of crap when a 35-39 guy going a 10:09 gets in but maybe a 25-29 or 30-34 at 10:04 doesn't. Either that or maybe a amature version of the pro point system as an alternate qualifier. I guess it just makes those on the bubble have to train that much harder and have that perfect race.

Dunno how you can say no since I was stating facts. What this boils down to is that unless you are a Bryancd/setania/irontri AG stud (you know, the pro-caliber guys who (IMO) smartly decide to stick with AG racing), a KQ is highly dependent on who shows up. In other words, luck (and maybe some good race selection, you know, like picking a race on the same day as 70.3WC).

So that leaves two options: (1) bank on luck, or (2) work your ass off to get to the AG stud level. I think one of these options is better than the other. But other people will have different views.

I don't see why we should change to KQ system to reward people merely because they're young (really that's what you would be doing by rewarding the fastest). I think you'll view some sort of "provisional" KQ as a bad idea in a few decades if you are still in the game. I'll keep my eyes out for a "yeah you might have been right" thread in 2033 :)

tweets.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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sentania wrote:
Quote:
I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35


You also forgot about M30-34.

Yeah.... that's the AG I was looking for. That's what I get for trying to post past midnight.

tweets.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
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My "yes no" want specific to IMWI. Consider demographics at that race. College town, plus 25-29 less likely to be doing 70.3 worlds since financially that's 3 WTC races in a year.

Or bad luck too.

Maybe too it was when I became 30 the same times that had me winning my age group at some local races, found me outside the top 3. Then again at another race this year the only guys that beat me I think were under 30.

So he'll, I guess it just depends who shows up.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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A 1:15 swim implies a lot of things that need to be improved on in the water. Gaining fitness/technique to get under 1:00 will benefit both your bike and your run in a race dramatically IMO. You will gain more than just 15 minutes in the swim. However, if you only have 12 hours/week to train, that means less training time for bike an run after investing the necessary time on the swim. Difficult to accomplish your goal.

good luck!

albert.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [albertboyce] [ In reply to ]
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albertboyce wrote:
A 1:15 swim implies a lot of things that need to be improved on in the water. Gaining fitness/technique to get under 1:00 will benefit both your bike and your run in a race dramatically IMO. You will gain more than just 15 minutes in the swim. However, if you only have 12 hours/week to train, that means less training time for bike an run after investing the necessary time on the swim. Difficult to accomplish your goal.

good luck!

albert.

An intense and targeted swim block 9-10 months out might give a bump to swim form while also givng your legs some recovery tiem before you start laying on the heavy volume.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Miami 70.3 Race Report (aka – what I’ve done over the past 4 months of training):

So I had my midterm progress report this past weekend, and well… I’d give myself a B-. I’m not out of the running, but have a long, long way to go and need to be more structured about my training.

Short summary: S(35:56)+B(2:26)+R(1:23)+T1(2:21)+T2(1:10) = 4:28, good for 13th in AG and 82nd OA
  • Progress on the swim (same time as Oly a month ago, but this time without a wetsuit), lots more to do
  • Not enough progress on the bike (23mph on flat/hot/windy course on 192 watts AP, 196 NP), leading to...
  • Bonking on the run - left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run (should have been 3-5 minutes faster on the run... course was short but had quick bathroom stop), cardio felt like a million bucks
  • Need another 15 minutes between the Swim + Bike to be competitive (probably 5 on swim, 10 on bike)

Medium summary:
  • I started swimming in the beginning of September, and have ramped up distance to ~8K per week over 3-4 sessions. Dropped scy interval set paces down from 1:50's to ~1:30 up to 300m, but clearly have a long way to go on the endurance front. It seems like I need to get up to a ~1:05 IM swim, and so must continue this progression through the winter.
  • My bike training has suffered since the swimming started. I went from 100-150 miles/week in the summer down to 80-130 miles/week since September. 80% of these miles were indoors on the trainer - a lot of tempo and interval work.
  • To make up for my decline in training, I decided to open up my wallet for the bike. Bought a Stages powermeter, Flo 60f/60r, LG Course helmet, Conti GP4000s, and Michelin latex tubes. Total bill: $1,850 (more than my bike). But the power meter didn't come until race week so I have no baseline to test against.
  • Now for the power data, 5-mile interval averages started with 183 and gradually rose through the race, finishing at 210. This was the first time I rode more than 50 miles in two years (this fall I’ve had three long rides of 50 miles each) and so I was getting pretty uncomfortable in aero by the latter part of the ride. My grundel still hurts. Given the 80-85% of FTP rule of thumb this would put my FTP around the 250 range, or right at 4w/kg
  • I've been averaging 30-40mpw running and think that's a minimum baseline for staying in decent running shape. I throw in an interval workout and a 8-10 mile marathon-pace run every week for strength purposes

So what's next?
  • Still going to shoot for 9:30 and all the glory because... why not.
  • Texas and Miami share similar traits (flat, hot), so if I'm able to lift my FTP up to 280 by May, @70% of FTP for the IM I can average a little under 200W and hit a 5:00 bike split. Did I do that math right? Included in this will be much better trainer training now that I have a power meter. Thinking about a Trainer Road subscription for the winter - good idea? I can suffer as much as I need to.
  • I'm out of spacers on my P2 but still think I can get lower. Swapping the Cane Creek top piece for a dust cap will be another half-centimeter, but that seems like the end of the road on this. I read about people slamming their handlebars but not really sure what the PG-version of that means.
  • Need to find more time to train. Would like to keep running mileage around 40, biking around 150, and swimming up to 10K per week. That's 5hrs run, 7hrs bike, 3.5hrs swim, which is more time than I have. Ahhh. Sadly not sure there's anything around this. Still thinking.

That's all for right now - comments/feedback/advice truly welcome as always.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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If are as time challenged as you say, and said you would be going into this, I would put the time back into the bike and away from the swim. It's not ideal but it's what you have to work with. You may need to simy plan on swimming a 1:10 but making sure you can ride close to 5 and run as well as you seem to be able to.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Why can't you make 15 hours work? Do you have kids?

An hour before work, an hour after work, plus a 4 hour ride and 30 min brick on Saturday and 2 hour run on Sunday is 16.5 hours. That's pretty much what I do year round. In the summer I ride more after work if daylight permits.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I love the update - keep on working. No reason not to go for it.

The bonking may have been a nutrition issue. Make sure you have some long training sessions where you really nail your nutrition down before the IM. You don't want to go into the IM with your longest workout day being a 5 hour workout, and therefore no nutrition testing past that time frame.

Keep improving the bike! I wouldn't try to swim 4x per week. Just do 3x, but go a little longer each time. If you only make it 2x per week because you are fitting in more on the bike, that's fine some weeks - just go longer when you do get there.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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One other thing - given that you rode 1:05 at lobsterman (very solid), but only 2:26 at Miami - which is probably one of the fastest 70.3 courses around - I would say that your endurance is a major limiting factor - not your cp.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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hey WX - I must have missed this thready the first time around (well, I have an excuse - I was too busy training!)

I did a quick scan of the responses but didn't look in detail, but I'll add my 2 cents worth

- go for it! you have the ability to qualify provided that you prepare well, race to your strengths, race smart, and have a bit of luck. The most important is to have a clear goal and the dedication to follow through with it (sounds like you do). I had really bad luck in my first 2 KQ attempts (broken ribs, GI bug) but I got it right on try 3 (Los Cabos). I'm really glad I didn't only have "one shot" like you!

- I did Los Cabos in 2013 (2nd AG, 26 overall), so I've good a reasonable perspective on what you would need to do to qualify.
- Your AG (I assume 25-29) had 2 slots. they went 10:08 and 10:10. However with only 2 slots there is always a risk that some superstar turns up and does a 9:20
- I did 9:42 on 18-23 hours a week. Swim the same (1:08), I'm probably faster than you on the bike (I was 2nd or 3rd fastest amateur bike split with a 5:07). My HIM bike on a rolling/hilly course is 2:19-2:24 You are a better runner than me. I ran 3:19 a IMLC and my open marathon time is 3:06 - I've not done an open since 2011 but I'm guessing I might have been able to run around a 2:55 open in march, certainly not a 2:40. On 10 hours a week, I think I would have been at least 20 mins slower on the bike.
- the bike is a tough course. Even after they made it easier for 2014 (they say it's 5% faster), there is not a single flat section. So being strong on the bike is key, not only for a good bike split but to set you up for a good run.
- your 10x100 swim is that yards? for comparison I do 10x100 yards on a 1:30 interval, coming in to the wall on about 1:22 for each one. I swam 1:08 in Cabo (I had a bad swim, but rather plan for worst case than best case).
- put in the swim effort to get you competitive, but as others have said, on 10 hours a week I would focus mainly on the bike. And run enough to "not screw that up". Or find another 5-6 hours a week. I manage to get in 18-28 hours in my IM builds (28 only a few weeks) and I have a busy job + 2 young kids. Just don't compromise your sleep too much. I compromise my sleep once a week, to get the hours in.
- keep this in mind: once you qualify, that's when the hard work starts! Set your wife's expectations now.
- training over winter sucks. be prepared for that, and keep focused on your goal to stay motivated!
- I see you plan to borrow aero wheels. Los Cabos was the windiest race I've done. I would recommend getting some windy training time with the wheels if possible.
- If you can buy a power meter I would recommend that. It will allow you to do some nice specific prep on the trainer. If not, training to HR is still fine.
- December: no biking? that will be a problem. Try to figure something out - I think I saw some suggestions on here. But don't do nothing.

Last of all - good luck and I hope you achieve your goals!

____________________________________

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I'm actually way more interested in the stuff you say we shouldn't worry about/ask about.

Sure, maybe you can qualify, maybe not. Who knows.

kelly dunleavy o'mara
http://www.sunnyrunning.com | @kellydomara
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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nice job dude. very cool that you got the powermeter to help take advantage of those limited hours. take a look at the Computrainer P.I.G. program. 20 weeks of ass kicking workouts. I don't have a CT but just started the program (w/ Vector power) and it's a pretty solid plan that'll help you build and track your progress.

an old friend once told me something to the effect that they could spend and extra 5 hours in the pool to gain 2 minutes in an ironman OR put those same 5 hours into the bike/run and gain 10-20 minutes during the ironman. name of the game...RETURN ON INVESTMENT!! now i'm not recommending you not swim at all but just try to get out of the water in a decent time expending as little energy as possible. what that is will be for you to figure out.

i'll go out on a limb and say your run issues is directly related to your lack of long bike miles but that'll come i'm sure
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I have said repeatedly KQ is all about placement. Your result here was 30mon. behind first and 16min. from 3rd. In an AG with only two Kiba slots for your IM, well just do the math.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run

This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Have you had this problem running before or is this just an off the bike issue? Possibly bike position related? Any bike position pics?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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snackchair wrote:
One other thing - given that you rode 1:05 at lobsterman (very solid), but only 2:26 at Miami - which is probably one of the fastest 70.3 courses around - I would say that your endurance is a major limiting factor - not your cp.

Very true, and in hindsight I think I just didn't bike long enough. I'm hoping that long slogs this winter will make up for some of the difference.

Thanks to everyone who gave comments. Yes, nutrition may be an issue (need to go longer to find out), as is fit. Will put up a picture of myself on the fit stuff once I get my bike put back together.
@Kelly - not sure what you're referring to, but my marriage is going really well so far if that helps. Five months coming up!
@Dooley - thanks for the recommendation! Will definitely check it out. Willing to check out everything possible to build fitness over a Boston winter
@fierceSun - I've had cramping at the end of marathons before and figure it's just an over-exertion thing. Will definitely consider position problems - thanks!
@Bryan - I love your candor. I'm trying and will hopefully make something good happen next year.

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance? Usually I race an open half marathon 3-4 weeks before my A marathon but not sure how the recovery cycles differ in the long-course tri world.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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....in hindsight I think I just didn't bike long enough.

Correct.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?

NO.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
@Bryan - I love your candor. I'm trying and will hopefully make something good happen next year.

Understand, as I have mentioned it before but it is hopelessly lost in the volume of this thread, I believe, based on your run talent, you could qualify for Kona given a 2 year plan and a training schedule that allows for more of the 13-15 hours per week on an annual basis. But the parameters of what you have placed on this relative to where you are is why I am the negative Nellie. I just can't make the math work.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.

Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I think an Olympic in that time frame WOD make sense but the problem with a Half that close to your race is twofold. One it will make you fatigued and two, will put a dent inwhat is an important part of you build training.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I know you have signed up and all that but is Cabos the right race? Why not Texas? A few reasons I see

1. Cabos - despite the change in bike course - will probably be pretty tough if it is windy again and given your bike is not your best of the 3 disciplines, I am afraid it will leave you too far behind the strong swimmers and bikers to catch up or you will be too worn out to leverage your run strength

2. I think a lot of people will suffer on the run in Texas due to heat and with a relatively flat and fast bike course you might loose less on the bike and be able to leverage your strong run to the max.

3. 2 more months to train

On the other side, the swim in Cabos is easier than Texas - but it is a smallest part of the race so I would choose race based on run and bike
Last edited by: andreasjs: Oct 30, 13 12:21
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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You need ot hit hte bike hard. Your run is solid... if you had a 2:18-2:20 bike split to back that up, losing 6-7 minuts in the water wouldn't matter so much. To KQ, you just can't give up that much time in 2 of the disciplines, especailly the bike.

You only shot now is to bike a LOT. I think for your first IM, you need a lot of "buffer" built in to KQ because expecuition likely won't be perfect.

Right now, unless you make improvements, you're about a good 10 minutes off the mark of your peers that are qualifying. So in a IM, that's rpobably 30 minutes you have to make up. Simply put, you'll be 10 minutes down on the swim, probably 20 down on the bike. You're only shot at that point is to run about a 3:10 to make up some ground and hope it rolls down a slot.

I'm not sure what I suggest with limited time. Probably bike more to limit the damage and make sure you have good legs to run on. In swimming focus really really hard on technique. Your on hte bubble... if you can get more time into by getting creative with your weekly schedules, do it. I managed ot squeeze out 16 hours last week and I'm still home with the family at dinner time, when we put my daughter to bed and for breakfast Sat. or Sun morning and all afternoon on the weekends.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.


Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?

I'd recommend against a HIM that close as well.

I'm doing an IM in 4 1/2 weeks and am racing a HIM this weekend. I should have a borderline KQ time (~9:45 +/- 15min), and am regretting scheduling the half this close. I'm in the middle of the last few weeks of my build for Cozumel and this weekend's race has been difficult to work in without disrupting training. Since the IM is my "A" race, I'm approaching the half as a training race; meaning limited taper and no expectations for results. In hindsight, I should have done more racing a couple of months ago and left the 8 weeks leading up to the IM for focused training.



-Andrew
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I probably already said this on page one but I'm too lazy to check.

you're grossly mis-priortizing your training time. you've got it all backwards really. You could probably squeeze by with 25mi per week of running and then allocate that additional time to biking.

we've already discussed your swim at length. it's going to end your day at TX, no doubt.

way more swimming, more biking. less enthusiasm and positivity and some critical thinking as to how you're really going to accomplish this. IM roll downs are littered with the weeping carcasses of guys like you, and further the back half of the marathon at Kona is littered with guys who just *knew* that they were going to go sub-10 at Kona but end up walking to 11:00.

step one: control what you can control.

WX wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.


Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [fierceSun] [ In reply to ]
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fierceSun wrote:
WX wrote:
left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run


This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Have you had this problem running before or is this just an off the bike issue? Possibly bike position related? Any bike position pics?

I have this thought as well. I know that I had calf cramping problems when I first started triathlons. Only seemed to happen in races. Fixed this with position changes as well as cleat placement changes.

This thread has been a great read.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
I probably already said this on page one but I'm too lazy to check.

you're grossly mis-priortizing your training time. you've got it all backwards really. You could probably squeeze by with 25mi per week of running and then allocate that additional time to biking.

we've already discussed your swim at length. it's going to end your day at TX, no doubt.

way more swimming, more biking. less enthusiasm and positivity and some critical thinking as to how you're really going to accomplish this. IM roll downs are littered with the weeping carcasses of guys like you, and further the back half of the marathon at Kona is littered with guys who just *knew* that they were going to go sub-10 at Kona but end up walking to 11:00.

step one: control what you can control.

WX wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.


Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?



So here's my question... I need to run around a 3 flat marathon, which means I need to be at least a 2:40 open shape. I don't think I can do that with 25 miles per week. I agree on cutting back some of the swim to focus more on biking, but if my goal is around a 9:30, it seems like I should be able to raise my FTP to 280 in 5 months on 6-7 hours per week of biking. If so, shouldn't I keep a 40-50 mile run week to maintain my competitive advantage?
Last edited by: WX: Oct 30, 13 23:27
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [AKCrafty] [ In reply to ]
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AKCrafty wrote:
fierceSun wrote:
WX wrote:
left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run


This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Have you had this problem running before or is this just an off the bike issue? Possibly bike position related? Any bike position pics?

I have this thought as well. I know that I had calf cramping problems when I first started triathlons. Only seemed to happen in races. Fixed this with position changes as well as cleat placement changes.

This thread has been a great read.

What kind of position and cleat changes? How'd you figure out what you needed?
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:


So here's my question... I need to run around a 3 flat marathon, which means I need to be at least a 2:40 open shape. I don't think I can do that with 25 miles per week. I agree on cutting back some of the swim to focus more on biking, but if my goal is around a 9:30, it seems like I should be able to raise my FTP to 280 in 5 months on 6-7 hours per week of biking. If so, shouldn't I keep a 40-50 mile run week to maintain my competitive advantage?


Your assumption that you can run a 3hr marathon if you're in 2:40 open shape is largely reliant on your bike fitness. That 20 minute drop means that you can ride 112 miles in the time you want and still be fairly fresh at the end. You get raise your FTP all you want, but you still need to time in the saddle to develop the IM specific bike fitness that makes you comfortable cranking out 22.5mph for 5 hours.

You can be in the best run fitness of your life, but if you're not where you need to be with your bike fitness, your run won't be even close to your expectations.



-Andrew
Last edited by: AMT04: Oct 31, 13 5:31
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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from one runner to another...

become a cyclist. it will help your run strength. I've run a 2:38 marathon & feel pretty strongly that I can have a solid long course run split on 3 run workouts a week. 1 long run, 1 medium length run, and a run off the bike. Make the long run count and by that I mean make the pace tough with a good bit of it quicker than your goal race pace. Say that your Ironman race pace is just over 7:00, running 10-20 with a good portion under 7's shouldn't be overly strenuous.

Your run won't make a difference if you're out of contention coming into t2 or you're out of energy.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Slide your cleats back towards your heel. Puts less stress on your calves.

I wouldn't be so focused on raising my cp. Yes, that's important, but for im it's more important to be able to sustain a higher percentage of threshold for 5.5 hours. Riding at ~70% of cp isn't going to effect every single person the same way - it depends on fatigue resistance, etc. Riding at that pace is going to be really tough if you haven't been doing lots of long rides at 75-80% and tempo rides at 85-90%. Your CP goes up as a by-product, but that's not necessary the sole focus. At the end of the day, you gotta think about the specific demands of the race, not just physiological markers.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
AKCrafty wrote:
fierceSun wrote:
WX wrote:
left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run


This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Have you had this problem running before or is this just an off the bike issue? Possibly bike position related? Any bike position pics?


I have this thought as well. I know that I had calf cramping problems when I first started triathlons. Only seemed to happen in races. Fixed this with position changes as well as cleat placement changes.

This thread has been a great read.


What kind of position and cleat changes? How'd you figure out what you needed?

I moved my cleats back (I now run my cleats -shimano- as far back as they'll go) and adjusted everything else from there. In my case, cleat placement seemed to be the cause of cramping calves. From there, a good bike fit is necessary for long-course success. Without it, you'll not be able to bike to your 'potential', IMHO.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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How are you doing WX? Any updates on your training?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Buy a powertap rear wheel, a really old version, even wired is fine. Use that for training and gauging fitness gains. Can be had for as low as $300, if that's within your budget.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [BoyWithACoin] [ In reply to ]
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I came late to this thread. I read all 8 pages and I would love to hear how things are going.

I am also looking to Kona Qualify, but I am going about it differently. I am basically the complete opposite of WX. I just hit the 45-49 age group this year and did my first IM (Wisconsin) in 2013. I have a coach and together we are working a 5 YEAR plan to KQ. I am single, no kids and I only work 35 hours a week. I have all the time and money in the world to make this a reality. I am not looking for one and done. I am looking for a long term, lifestyle type commitment to get this goal achieved.

Keep us posted WX. The race is only a few months away and I am very interested to hear how your winter training went. I am also interested to hearing about the ramping up towards the race.

Good Luck,
Dwayne

Charity is injurious unless it helps the recipient to become independent of it. John D. Rockefeller Sr.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ontheuptick] [ In reply to ]
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ontheuptick wrote:
How are you doing WX? Any updates on your training?

Sorry for the delay and thanks for your interest! I wanted to get in an FTP test before reporting back!

So this winter has been ups and downs training-wise, as expected. I put in a decent November, but then went on a honeymoon December-January (great for my relationship, not so much for training). Swimming in the ocean every day sounded good in theory. Reality consisted of a lot more room service on the beach. That being said, it's now February, no more excuses! How do I stand? Okay:

  • Swim: can hold 1:38/25scy open turns forever. Working on getting that faster, of course, so think a 1:08 IM swim is in reach (no wetsuit). Considering splurging on a swim-skin for an extra 1-2 minutes. Would hate if that was the difference between KQ and non-KQ but also feel really bad about buying the time.
  • Bike: FTP around 258-260 (20' test) for 3.85 w/kg. Planning on dropping ~4kg by race day and increasing FTP by ~5. Really working on going longer and more specificity over the next few months.
  • Run: lost a bit but am able to put in 6 miles at 6:00 pace still. Working on making 7:00 pace (my goal IM pace) feel as easy as pie.

In summary, I'm doing okay (B-?) Would've liked to be 3-5% stronger on the bike by now. Putting in 7 hours a week on the trainer - will try and bump it up another hour or so. More updates to come and good luck everyone with your seasons!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Bump. Any updates here, WX?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Joe Public] [ In reply to ]
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Joe Public wrote:
Bump. Any updates here, WX?


Thanks for the note and I'm truly touched you care! I didn't do the 70.3 this past weekend to prioritize the IM. I have the Boston Marathon in 2 weeks but I'm running that easy (open marathon pace + 45 seconds) and not really tapering.

Since almost two months ago, I've made some improvements, despite losing some training time to a week in Nigeria (really hard to run out there, but hey, heat acclimatization!)
  • Swim: had a breakthrough last week... finally! Went from 16x100scy on 1:45 (coming in at 1:35-1:40) to 24x100 on 1:45 (coming in at 1:31-1:33). Was going to see if I could do 8x500 @ IM pace this week but ended up getting pretty bad road-rash so am staying out of the pool for a few days until it heals
  • Bike: FTP still around 260-ish. Am going longer (have done trainer rides of 4, 4.5, 5 hours since the weather has been uncooperative)
  • Run: not getting faster but have extended my long runs to 16 miles at ~6:35 pace and do them weekly. Feel pretty strong on the distance front.

I am now 5 weeks out from IMT - I completed 1 "big day" of 45' swim + 4.5 hour trainer ride + 9 miles at sub-7 pace and the run felt fantastic a few weeks ago. I'm planning on doing one more this week: 1.25hr swim + 6 hour ride + 10 mile run at pace. Any bits of feedback on what I should focus on over the next three weeks?


Thanks!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Love your updates WX - keep them coming and I hope you make it. I did my first IM at end of last year and had a pretty good first outing. I don't have the experience of some others but I'll tell you what worked and didn't work for me which might or might not help you.

First off - don't do Boston! If your goal is to give it your best shot to KQ then a marathon 4 weeks out is not going to help. I get that you're intending to run it at a slower pace, think you said you're a ~2:40 marathoner so even 45secs slower is still putting you at ~3:00 hours which is going to take something out of you. Forgo Boston and focus on the IM. If you absolutely must do it, then drop the pace further and run at ~3:30 pace or slower.

I'd really focus on getting in 2-3 hard 3-4 hour rides. Personally I found these rides really beneficial for IM. I was time constrained and never rode over 4 hours in training and actually found the bike relatively easy (& I'm not a naturally stronger cyclist - swim and run are my strengths). Either way I attribute the good bike to being swim fit, the hard 3-4 hour rides and the fact I paced the bike well.

I wouldn't worry about a minute here or there in the swim - far more important you complete the swim having expended as little energy as possible and getting on the bike as fresh as possible (again this was key for me). To this end I'd focus on sets such as 10x400 @ IM pace or just below (with short rest intervals e.g. 10-20 secs). Aim is to get really fit/strong in the water - it will pay big dividends later on the bike and run.

Focus on nutrition and correct pacing during the race and in your long training simulations. Getting you're pacing and nutrition right is absolutely critical to having a good IM.

My biggest mistake was to run too fast. My experience (and I run very similar times to you) is that I went WAY too hard at the start of the IM - ran the first 10K in 42mins, went through 21K in 1:32 and faded to a 3:21. No way of knowing but I think if I'd started at my target pace I'd have run 5-10mins quicker. I think your 7:00/mile for the IM marathon is too ambitious. Start more conservatively - say 7:30/mile, if you're bike fit and don't ride too hard this is a more realistic pace.

Good luck and keep posting.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [HKoldtimer] [ In reply to ]
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HKoldtimer wrote:
Love your updates WX - keep them coming and I hope you make it. I did my first IM at end of last year and had a pretty good first outing. I don't have the experience of some others but I'll tell you what worked and didn't work for me which might or might not help you.

First off - don't do Boston! If your goal is to give it your best shot to KQ then a marathon 4 weeks out is not going to help. I get that you're intending to run it at a slower pace, think you said you're a ~2:40 marathoner so even 45secs slower is still putting you at ~3:00 hours which is going to take something out of you. Forgo Boston and focus on the IM. If you absolutely must do it, then drop the pace further and run at ~3:30 pace or slower.

I'd really focus on getting in 2-3 hard 3-4 hour rides. Personally I found these rides really beneficial for IM. I was time constrained and never rode over 4 hours in training and actually found the bike relatively easy (& I'm not a naturally stronger cyclist - swim and run are my strengths). Either way I attribute the good bike to being swim fit, the hard 3-4 hour rides and the fact I paced the bike well.

I wouldn't worry about a minute here or there in the swim - far more important you complete the swim having expended as little energy as possible and getting on the bike as fresh as possible (again this was key for me). To this end I'd focus on sets such as 10x400 @ IM pace or just below (with short rest intervals e.g. 10-20 secs). Aim is to get really fit/strong in the water - it will pay big dividends later on the bike and run.


My biggest mistake was to run too fast. My experience (and I run very similar times to you) is that I went WAY too hard at the start of the IM - ran the first 10K in 42mins, went through 21K in 1:32 and faded to a 3:21. No way of knowing but I think if I'd started at my target pace I'd have run 5-10mins quicker. I think your 7:00/mile for the IM marathon is too ambitious. Start more conservatively - say 7:30/mile, if you're bike fit and don't ride too hard this is a more realistic pace.


Focus on nutrition and correct pacing during the race and in your long training simulations. Getting you're pacing and nutrition right is absolutely critical to having a good IM.

Good luck and keep posting.


(edited for incorrect placement of my text)
Interesting pace advice about the marathon (in an IM), to me, it seems almost "classic" open marathon advice as well. Emotionally, it's hard to hold back when you "feel" so good. But it sure works for me!


I could break the course record - theoretically, Bishop Pickering - from the movie "Caddyshack"
Last edited by: manofthewoods: Apr 8, 14 2:20
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Are you racing TX?

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I believe you will pull this off and KQ

You will bike 5:15 run 3:05 swim 1:10 and spend 5 in transition

That's 9:35 give or take a bit.

I think the only risk is if a lot of fast guys show up or if you get nutrition wrong or go to hard on the bike

The 2 latter is under your control
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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do some heat adaptation.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [SpicedRum] [ In reply to ]
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SpicedRum wrote:
do some heat adaptation.

Have you tried anything that works well? Should I just layer up and turn off the fan on the trainer? Run in sweats but drink lots of water?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
SpicedRum wrote:
do some heat adaptation.


Have you tried anything that works well? Should I just layer up and turn off the fan on the trainer? Run in sweats but drink lots of water?

Depending on the size of your laundry area you could run the dryer and ride the trainer in there.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that doing Boston = bad idea.

you'd be better served by training, a lot, that weekend. A couple of 275+ TSS rides with a fair bit of above IM effort in them.

it's not just running the marathon that will ding you. It's the travel to/from that wipes out a few days of training.

I've just checked into this thread. Based on the numbers you're posting KQ is a long shot. Going to Boston does not stack the odds in your favor.

If it were me and my only shot and I actually cared if I qualified or not, I'd be doing everything I could to stack the odds in my favor. Better to be a 45 to 1 vs a 50 to 1.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
Last edited by: desert dude: Apr 8, 14 11:24
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I've followed this thread, and I'm really rooting for you. I've been trying to KQ for 3 years and have come close (30 sec - that hurt, and twice about 12 minutes, but that's an eternity). I have a very different set of tools than you, though, with 55 min swim easy with only 3 swims per week, but lifetime marathon PR of only 3:00 with a real running focus to prepare. I'll try again this summer in Whistler, but the reality is that my best shot is probably next year when I finally age out of this ridiculous 40-44 age group.

I have to agree with the others, though, that Boston is too much of a distraction. This is a key time for your bike fitness, and the time off to travel, race and recover will come at a price. You can BQ in your sleep on much less than 12 hours per week. Do it another year, it will still be there. If this is really your one shot at KQ, don't lose focus now.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I agree that doing Boston = bad idea.

you'd be better served by training, a lot, that weekend. A couple of 275+ TSS rides with a fair bit of above IM effort in them.

it's not just running the marathon that will ding you. It's the travel to/from that wipes out a few days of training.

I've just checked into this thread. Based on the numbers you're posting KQ is a long shot. Going to Boston does not stack the odds in your favor.

If it were me and my only shot and I actually cared if I qualified or not, I'd be doing everything I could to stack the odds in my favor. Better to be a 45 to 1 vs a 50 to 1.

Thanks Brian for your advice. Given what I'm posting, are there any benchmark (either workouts or numbers) that would give you (and me) more confidence? Pure running's easy - a half marathon ~4 weeks before is a pretty darn good predictor of potential marathon finishing times, but I think the big unknown here is how my run will do after 6 hours in the heat, including nutrition, etc. What kind of numbers would put me closer to 3 to 1 odds?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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One hour swim and a 5 flat bike for starters. I'm kidding about the bike but if you don't ride 5, you are going to need a really spectacular run to be in contention.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Apr 8, 14 16:52
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I have never qualified for Kona but hopefully someday it will happen. I've finished four IM's as well as Boston four times. For what its worth my legs hurt more after Boston than the IM's. It sounds like you are a great runner but if Kona is what you want, skip Boston. Its going to take you time to recover and like others said the travel and stuff beats on you. Boston is a very tough race to just "hold back" especially if you are feeling good. The crowds are deep and lined the whole way. Unless you are totally disciplined I bet you run it way faster than planned. Focus on Kona qualifying!!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
SpicedRum wrote:
do some heat adaptation.


Have you tried anything that works well? Should I just layer up and turn off the fan on the trainer? Run in sweats but drink lots of water?


Listen to this podcast, I found it pretty interesting.

http://triathletetraining.com/tt025-heat-acclimation/
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome and thought provoking comment right here.
The older I get, the more I believe in the mental aspect of endurance sports.
I'd love to have a beer with An Old Guy.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Just look at the results in your age group over the last few years at that race. You need to be fairly close to that when you add all your splits up.

My advice is this: The biggest mistakes most people make are in the first 40k of the bike and the first 5k of the run. Use your head, and if that fails listen to what your PM is telling you. It won't lie to you and tell you your awesome like your mind will. But then you'll find out 60k later your mind betrayed you.

Be smart, 30% of all people toeing the IM start line will defeat themselves in the race. 20-30% defeated themselves in training getting to the race. You really only have to deal with 50% of your Ag that trained and raced smart at the end of the day. It's better to be in the smart 50% then the dumb 50%.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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What happened ??
Did he qualify ?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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It can absolutely happen for you but really be careful with Boston. I have run Boston 8 out of past 9 years and IM Texas the past 2. Prior to that, I never raced IM's until late summer or fall coming from Ohio. Two years ago I had to skip Boston for last minute personal reasons. I went to Texas somewhat under trained but well rested and had my best race ever. Last year went to Boston with the goal of running "EZ" for 20 then build the final 6 miles for the training effect. Even did a 4+ hour ride the day prior to Boston to keep me honest. I pretty much accomplished the goal. However, Ignoring my body and staying on "plan" I took about a day of recovery and got back to it. Long story short, even at a relatively ez pace, Boston hills still took it out of me and I crashed/burned in Texas, race walking through the marathon. My fitness had never been better at the time. I went on to have a crappy rest of the IM season including an IM Placid walk, DNS's at Muncie and Steelhead, DNF's at Eagleman and Wisconsin. The season of promise was one of overreaching and injury. It all went back to Boston and bad training/racing decisions in and around that time. If you want success at Tex, consider running the distance your training plan would have called for (16-20 miles I'd guess) and then shut it down. Like, consider a walk back into the city. An EZ 26 mile jog is still a shit ton of load. Especially for someone new to the IM game.

And finally, thinking back to my first IM, it would have been helpful if someone had told me prior that the IM marathon feels like something totally different than a marathon. Be ready mentally for that and accept all of the awkward sensations your body will be experiencing. And, don't be upset with an 8 minute mile or a need to walk here or there. It's a long day and everyone is in the same boat. Good luck; I look forward to the outcome...

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [jimswim99] [ In reply to ]
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Marathon running is rubbish preparation for IM marathons.

And while we're at it, a half IM is nothing like an IM.

That sounds glib, and I don't have the same experience that a lot of the guys on here have, but honestly it just isn't the same thing at all. What you learn running the marathon won't be relevant enough (and besides, you've done that many times before and very well by all accounts), nor will the training or conditioning benefits be large enough to offset the fatigue you are putting into yourself.

Anyway, you are at the biggest Ironman training and racing discussion board on the planet, and loads of people have warned you against running Boston. I'd think about that. And I'd think about what my A race is and everything else I do would be aligned to that goal.

Good luck, following with interest and rooting for you. I've a young daughter, a son on the way and a demanding job. I have some natural ability but my one shot at Kona glory was realistically about 8 years ago before I met my partner and took a promotion. Unfortunately I only took up triathlon 6 years ago... ;-)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I think you need to put in a long day of training to figure out your nutrition. That seems to be a big limiter of some of the really, really fit athletes that I know. The catch of course is that even if you have it nailed under most conditions - heat, maybe swallowing some water on the swim, etc can screw it up on race day. That happened to my gf and even a number of seasoned pros at Kona this past year.... despite a tried and true nutrition strategy they were still limited by stomach issues.

I would have a day where you eat the same dinner and breakfast going into training that you'll eat on race day, then mimic your fueling strategy exactly for something like 30 min swim, 5.5 hour bike, 45 min run. Do it at just a few percent higher than IM effort and you should figure out if your plan works for you. If it's colder outside than it will be on raceday, overdress a bit.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [psoasminor] [ In reply to ]
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psoasminor wrote:
What happened ??
Did he qualify ?

Looks like he never raced it.

http://www.xiao-wang.com/races-and-results.html
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
Marathon running is rubbish preparation for IM marathons.

And while we're at it, a half IM is nothing like an IM.

That sounds glib, and I don't have the same experience that a lot of the guys on here have, but honestly it just isn't the same thing at all. What you learn running the marathon won't be relevant enough (and besides, you've done that many times before and very well by all accounts), nor will the training or conditioning benefits be large enough to offset the fatigue you are putting into yourself.

Anyway, you are at the biggest Ironman training and racing discussion board on the planet, and loads of people have warned you against running Boston. I'd think about that. And I'd think about what my A race is and everything else I do would be aligned to that goal.

I'm only doing my first IM this year (and also shooting for Kona), but I agree, its' VERY clear that a 70.3 and IM bear little resemblance, except that the bike and swim training cross over very well for FOP athletes. The pace is much, much higher. Nutrition doesn't; seem nearly as critical.

The most value I get out of a 70.3, is comparing my times to other competitors that have done the same IM as me and looking at their splits as a kind of benchmark. Figuring that if I toe the line with similar fitness, execute nutrition and pacing strategy, then those are realistic splits I can hit.

Remember the title here.... "YOUR ONLY SHOT". Why compromise that with doing Boston? Boston will always be there. Yes, yes, it's a "special" year because of the bombings. But honestly, how special is any marathon when "exclusivity" is running with 35k+ competitors. Compare that to racing against 1500 of the best LC triathletes in the world.


TrainingBible Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]
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Because the race is next month...
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cbump] [ In reply to ]
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cbump wrote:
Because the race is next month...

My bad, I bet that Linsey Corbin wins for the women...
;0)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cbump] [ In reply to ]
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I thought he was doing im Los cabos in march ??
In Reply To:
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [psoasminor] [ In reply to ]
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I also thought he was doing IMLC, I was there and looked for him....
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lollice] [ In reply to ]
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Great thread - thanks WX for sharing your goals and everyone else for sharing your expertise. BTW, WX, did you end up running Boston?

Here's my experience of trying to qualify for Kona:

Age 30: first IM. Did my first marathon 5 months before the IM (2:52:46). Did my second marathon as a "training run" 7 weeks before the IM (2:54:xx). To give you some context, my background was that of a half decent runner (32:42 10km pb at 29yo). Crap swimmer. Longest swim 3km. Longest bike ride 158km. Longest run: 3 hours. Did as many short tris (2 sprint, 1 oly) and swim/run events leading up to IM as I could. Result: Swim, 1:14, Bike, 5:58, Run, 3:42. Total: 11:02 32nd in M30-34. Did not qualify.

Age 33: 2nd IM. No marathons. Did HIM (5:05) 2 months prior to IM. Longest swim: 3km Longest bike: 150km. One 5km (during sprint tri week before IM) run in 4 weeks prior to IM. Result: Swim 1:16, Bike: 5:55, Run: 4:20. Total 11:44. 65th M30-34. Did not qualify.

Age 37: 3rd IM. No marathons. No tris leading up to IM. Did swim technique course 6 weeks prior to IM. Longest run in 9 weeks prior to IM 1hr05. Stayed at race venue and trained on bike course for 3 weeks prior to race. Finally got that biking was key to a decent IM run. Longest swim 3.8km. Longest bike 180km. Result: Swim 1:11, Bike: 5:52 (hilly course, 1 puncture), Run:3:26. Total: 10:43. 17th M35-39. Did not qualify.

Age 39: 4th IM. No marathons. No tris leading up to IM. Did same swim technique course 6 weeks prior to IM. Longest swim: 3.8km. Longest bike: 180km. Longest run: 2:10 hours. Result: Swim 1:00, Bike 6:06 (hilly, windy, bonked badly at 110km between aid stations), run: 3:27. Total 10:41. 21st M35-39. Did not qualify.

Age 39: 5th IM. No marathons. Did 4th IM 3 months prior to this race. Two c. 170km Alpine cylco-sportifs 6 weeks prior to IM. Longest swim: 3.8km, longest bike 180km. Longest run 2:10 hours. Result: Swim 0:58, Bike 5:15 (rolling 3-lap course with one decent climb per lap), Run 3:23 (hilly course). Total: 9:44. 5th M35-39. Age group had 3 KQ slots initially. A 4th slot was added due to nobody finishing in M70+. 2nd and 4th in age group elected not to go to Kona. Qualified for Kona due to roll down.

Age 39: 6th IM (Kona), 9 weeks after qualifying. Good in some ways as it was easy to keep the fitness. Bad in that I was recovering from a calf injury sustained during qualifying. Result: Swim (non-wetsuit) 1:13, Bike 5:20, Run 3:31. Total 10:13. finished between 100th and 110th in M35-39.

Age 42: 7th IM. 1 marathon 5 months prior to IM (2:50:51). HIM 12 weeks prior to IM. 4:36 (S34, B2:32, R1:29 hilly bike and run). Half marathon (1:26) three weeks prior to IM. Longest swim: 4km. Longest Bike: 208km. Longest run: 2:10 hours. Result: Swim 1:03, Bike 5:13, Run 3:11. Total 9:34. 15th MPro. Did not qualify.

Observations:

- decent swim technique can save you many minutes (15+ in my case)
- bike fitness is crucial to a decent run, more so than running fitness.
- running an open marathon and running an IM marathon are two different beasts. It wasn't until my third IM that I learned how to run an IM marathon.
- if you are time-crunched, do your long work-outs and what ever else you can fit in. During my training for my last IM, outside my long runs and rides, my only running and biking was to and from work or the pool.
- I only qualified for Kona by luck. Lucky 2 guys ahead of me didn't want to go to Kona, lucky I was in the largest age-group of the race (~400), lucky there was an additional slot due to a DNF, lucky the pointy end of the field was very thin.
- it can take years to get good at IM

WX, thanks again for sharing your goals. I'm not a coach and I found this thread way too late to give you any meaningful advice. All the best for your one shot at Kona - I wish you well and above all, I wish you luck.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:

Be smart, 30% of all people toeing the IM start line will defeat themselves in the race. 20-30% defeated themselves in training getting to the race. You really only have to deal with 50% of your Ag that trained and raced smart at the end of the day. It's better to be in the smart 50% then the dumb 50%.

I think you can take these numbers and start with this:

80% of the field has no shot or for that matter intention on KQ.

Of the remaining 20% you only have to deal with the smart 50%. And the worse the conditions the more important it is to be smart.

I worry about what is going to happen at IMTX this year. Specifically the folks who got a gift from God Almighty at Galveston 70.3 and biked under 2:18 are going to try and shoot for sub 5 hour bike splits when they shouldn't.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lollice] [ In reply to ]
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So what's the dealio on this guy? In his OP he def. says the race is IM Los Cabos.

trav

____________________________________________________
"As for "xxxxxx"...what can I say? You sound like a dick. If you don't want to answer the question, just shut up." AllezPappa
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [travisml] [ In reply to ]
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He changed to imtx somewhere in the thread to allow more training time.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Just bumping for all to confirm that the OP registered for TX in May. I'll be checking back to see how it goes.

Any updates on your training?


WX wrote:
Thanks everyone for your inputs. Did not know I could come to ST for free marriage counseling - this could be the next big application of the wisdom of crowds.

From the feedback, I am going to put in a huge bike focus and see if that translates to some truly meaningful gains - I'm going to spend the next month ramping up volume and avoiding injury. The other big piece of news is that I officially just sent WTC $700 for IM Texas in May. The extra month and half of training (20% higher than my original total) will help make this impossible goal slightly less impossible.

Week 1 training summary:
(BST: Before ST)
Monday: Run 5m
Tuesday: Run 9m w/ 5@6:10 pace (MP)
(AST: After ST)
Wednesday: Bike 15m doing hill repeats, run 2m@5:30 (running last-minute errand)
Thursday: Bike 25m cruise w/ hills (~140bpm)
Friday: AM: Bike 12m, w/ 2x6' all out, 6' recovery. PM: run 6m, w/ 6x 2' on 2' off fartleks
Saturday: AM: Bike 15m, w/2x15' at threshold (what I can hold for 1hr), 5' recovery. PM: run 4m
Sunday: AM: Bike 15m@just below threshold. PM: Bike 18m cruise
Weekly total: 110m bike (7 hours), 26m run (3 hours)

Plan for next week - more biking! Do a HR max test, 2x20', and 5x6' workouts. Some questions:
1. I have trouble raising my HR above 170 on the bike, while I can raise my HR to 190+ running. Is that normal? My legs just feel like they're doing all they can.
2. As you can see, I don't have huge blocks of time for long bike rides. At this point, are these 45m-90m workouts good uses of time or do gains happen at the end of a 40/50-miler? How should I prioritize hill work vs. flat cranking?
3. Any other feedback always appreciated. Marriage is still going well. Just came back from a romantic weekend in Napa and bought wines for each of our next 10 anniversaries (optimism runs beyond just training goals).
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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Any update? How did Boston go?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Cup] [ In reply to ]
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Cup wrote:
Any update? How did Boston go?


Thanks for the interest! So I did my last FTP test today so am pretty much set in terms of where I am going to be fitness-wise. I have one more week of higher quantity before beginning my 2-week taper on Monday.

Let's hope this + a good nutrition plan + some luck with get me there!

Swim: can do 1000scy sets (open turns) in 16:15, so roughly a 1:38/100 pace. Will be wearing a swim skin (let's say taking 2-3sec/100 off) but also will be in an open water washing machine. Best reasonable case is 1:12 for the IM swim.
Bike: FTP of 270, weight of 63.5kg, so ftp/kg of 4.25, which I'm reasonable happy with. Unfortunately IMTX is a pretty flat course so only headline watts matter Will be riding a P2 w/ carbon wheels + wheel cover, aero road helmet, pretty aggressive position. Aiming to ride at 72-73% of FTP so ~195 watts, which I think will put me in around 4:50-4:55 with no mechanicals. (I rode Miami 70.3 in 2:25 w/ worse position, no wheel cover, and a rear tire at 70psi @ 190W)
Run: I'm in solid 2:40-low open marathon shape (long runs @ 6:30 pace, 10-mile pace runs @ 6:10 pace). So according to Daniel's VDOT table, at 75-80%FT, my IM projected time is somewhere around 3:10-3:20.

3 projected slots at IMTX, with bubble boy being somewhere around 9:30 every year. If everything works out perfectly, I'll be in the 9:20's. If that doesn't get me a slot, I'll still be satisfied.

I listened (but didn't quite follow) everyone's advice for Boston. I ended up biking really hard the two days prior to the race and then running Boston in 3:14, with essentially a 20-mile long run around 7-min pace and a 6 mile jog around 8/8:30-min pace. High-fived cute babies, drank a beer w/ friends on Heartbreak, took pictures with people along the way. Never enjoyed a run more and felt fantastic. Picked up training within 2 days and haven't noticed any decline in performance.

I'm nervous, excited, relieved all at the same time. Can't wait.
Last edited by: WX: Apr 29, 14 20:33
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the update, this has been fascinating and fun to follow. for a few fellow fitness aficionados. oh for fuck's sake

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You think you have time.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Firstly good luck WX - its a great story to follow and I hope you make it. FWIW here's my advice for your race day. Really your training is done so the only variables you can now control are to get your nutrition right and pace the IM correctly.

I think your 4:50-4:55 bike time is a little ambitious (probably put you into Top 40/50 overall bike times), far better in my IMO to dial that back a bit with an aim of say a 5:00 - 5:05. I *think* this will give you a better chance of putting your run weapon into play and being able to run 3:15 or better.

To give you context I see many parallels with yourself. I had a goal of 1 IM to qualify for Kona, have a strong run (low 2:40 marathon shape for my IM) and I biked a 2:25 HIM (albeit on hot/windy course) 4 weeks before IM. My HIM and IM were both flat courses. My real focus was not to over bike so I could run well. In the event I rode 5:05 and felt very comfortable and ran a 3:21 (I expected to run 3:15 or better). The mistake on my run was to go too hard in the 1st half (went through halfway in around 1:32) because I felt so good off the bike - had I paced the run better I *think* I'd have had a good shot at sub 3:15.

Not saying this is the right advice for you, just giving you my experience for my 1st IM given we had the same goal and are probably a similar ability on bike and run.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds to me like your well-positioned and have a solid game plan for Texas. Unfortunately, ST must demand your bib number so we can follow your progress online!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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This has been a very interesting story to follow and I'm glad you are keeping us up to date. I think you will be close to your goal if you pace this race smartly. The only doubt I have of you reaching Kona is your swim ability, but I wish you luck!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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This has been fun to watch. Would love to meet up down in Texas if you are up for it. What ag are you racing? You might have me worried here!

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
This has been fun to watch. Would love to meet up down in Texas if you are up for it. What ag are you racing? You might have me worried here!

Let's do it - I get down to Houston on Tuesday, a few days with family, then getting into the Woodlands on Thursday. PM me your email/number and we can meet up. My bib is #1040 and I'm 25-29 so I think we can still be friends. Thanks again for your interest/support from the beginning!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I've been following this post, having done IMTX last year, the only bit of advice is this:

Check out T2, if they have not put carpets down, consider wearing socks for the bike if you don't already. It's tough to run a good marathon when the bottom of your feet are just one big blister - if it is sunny it can indeed get hot enough to burn the bottom of your feet!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Almost time.... Go get it!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I'll chime in with a good luck! :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I've been following for months from Western Australia.
Hope you get what you want WX!
There's no doubt you've given it a real good crack!
Good luck, go hard.

Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [SamuelMedway] [ In reply to ]
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Bike smart and go kill the run! Good luck.

Other "1 shooters" like me are cheering you on that you can pull it off.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Good luck, hope you get a slot. Been fun reading about the updates

Oh.. and as desert_dude said.. Go easy first portion of the bike. Let the hammerheads go, you'll catch them later
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Good Luck! Positive vibes your way!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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We the people of ST will not rest until a bib # has been posted! Good luck man, sounds like you put in some great work to get here!

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete
Snapple Pro Triathlon Team The best team on Earth!
Instagram- @timbikerun
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Timbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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can somebody explain? no, there is too much, can somebody sum up? Last I remember he was doing Cabo.

Go WX!

Timbikerun wrote:
We the people of ST will not rest until a bib # has been posted! Good luck man, sounds like you put in some great work to get here!

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Keys to a successful race:

the swim is inconsequential.

the bike is just a means to get from the swim to the run. Your bike time will be what your time will be. Fuel, electrolyte and hydrate accordingly while staying aero and drafting at the legal distance and working with others.

The run is where it's at, but save it for the last half.

good luck!

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
can somebody explain? no, there is too much, can somebody sum up? Last I remember he was doing Cabo.

Go WX!

Timbikerun wrote:
We the people of ST will not rest until a bib # has been posted! Good luck man, sounds like you put in some great work to get here!

#1040 ... will probably be the most tracked athlete this weekend!

Switched to IMTX to give 2 extra months of training.

This has been a great thread to follow.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Timbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Let's do it - I get down to Houston on Tuesday, a few days with family, then getting into the Woodlands on Thursday. PM me your email/number and we can meet up. My bib is #1040 and I'm 25-29 so I think we can still be friends. Thanks again for your interest/support from the beginning

^^

-D
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Let's go WX! Seems like you've got all the things to have a great race! Wish you good luck!

-D
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [HKoldtimer] [ In reply to ]
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HKoldtimer wrote:
I think your 4:50-4:55 bike time is a little ambitious (probably put you into Top 40/50 overall bike times), far better in my IMO to dial that back a bit with an aim of say a 5:00 - 5:05. I *think* this will give you a better chance of putting your run weapon into play and being able to run 3:15 or better.

Agree with this. Not sure what your plan is when it comes to what, if any, data you're going to watch during the bike, but my advice is to go with your wattage plan and ignore speed and time. Kill it out there!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [AKCrafty] [ In reply to ]
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AKCrafty wrote:
HKoldtimer wrote:
I think your 4:50-4:55 bike time is a little ambitious (probably put you into Top 40/50 overall bike times), far better in my IMO to dial that back a bit with an aim of say a 5:00 - 5:05. I *think* this will give you a better chance of putting your run weapon into play and being able to run 3:15 or better.


Agree with this. Not sure what your plan is when it comes to what, if any, data you're going to watch during the bike, but my advice is to go with your wattage plan and ignore speed and time. Kill it out there!

also agree. bike time will be what bike time will be. Execute bike to give you best chance at fast marathon and achieving goal of KQ. Bike "time" does not get you a KQ in and of itself and can sometimes be counter to your objectives.

don't even us a watch or clock on bike... just power.

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
xecute bike to give you best chance at fast marathon and achieving goal of KQ. Bike "time" does not get you a KQ in and of itself and can sometimes be counter to your objectives.

A very, very wise thought.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
Last edited by: desert dude: May 16, 14 12:08
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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This is a weird feeling, but I am actually nervous for you. I know all the work you have put into this. Good luck and execute!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [tjbingha] [ In reply to ]
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Dont't listen to these idiots. The bike is where the race is won or lost /pink
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [tjbingha] [ In reply to ]
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tjbingha wrote:
This is a weird feeling, but I am actually nervous for you. I know all the work you have put into this. Good luck and execute!

I have to admit that after following this thread from the beginning, and now its going to all be resolved tomorrow, I am kinda in that same boat.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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I know. I feel like we all have a lot of time and emotions built up in the course of ten pages...really good thread and read.

Again, best of luck.

Did we ever get a bib number here?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [tjbingha] [ In reply to ]
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#1040
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I hope you are not Ferrari / Pinarello guy (haha)
Good Luck tomorrow

2015 Felt B12
2009 Ridley Noah
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Good luck WX, hope you make it. Either way enjoy the day.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [tjbingha] [ In reply to ]
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tjbingha wrote:
This is a weird feeling, but I am actually nervous for you. I know all the work you have put into this. Good luck and execute!

Truly thanks for your comments and support. I haven't really slept well all week and cannot wait to get out of the water tomorrow. Whatever happens will happen, but it's pretty incredible the response, advice, and engagement I have felt from all y'all. I've never been part of a tri club but if ST is representative at all, it's a pretty darn amazing community. Here's to awesomeness!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Go get 'em. Best of luck.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Good luck. I have the Kona pipe dream as a 37 year old late covert to the sport. I'm probably gonna wait on the 40-44 AG for that one.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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Good luck to you!

~~ kate
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [macwhinb] [ In reply to ]
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Checked out Ironman.com to see if he had any splits yet. Noticed his name and immediately thought. "Hey Wang, what's with the pictures? It's a parking lot, come on."
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cjbruin] [ In reply to ]
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Xiao has a bit of time to make up after his 1:11:25 swim but didn't bury himself either.


Go Xiao!

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ In reply to ]
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1:11:25 for the swim. 49th in his AG

Only about 46 people to pass now and then off to Kona.

Good luck!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lakercr] [ In reply to ]
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5:11 T1 doesn't help either, but it won't kill him.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
Xiao has a bit of time to make up after his 1:11:25 swim but didn't bury himself either.


Go Xiao!

1:11 is what we thought he would swim. He was talking 1:05- 1:10 but his training paces didn't indicate that.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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"1:11 is what we thought he would swim. He was talking 1:05- 1:10 but his training paces didn't indicate that."

From his April 29th post to this thread:

"Swim: can do 1000scy sets (open turns) in 16:15, so roughly a 1:38/100 pace. Will be wearing a swim skin (let's say taking 2-3sec/100 off) but also will be in an open water washing machine. Best reasonable case is 1:12 for the IM swim.

Bike: FTP of 270, weight of 63.5kg, so ftp/kg of 4.25, which I'm reasonable happy with. Unfortunately IMTX is a pretty flat course so only headline watts matter Will be riding a P2 w/ carbon wheels + wheel cover, aero road helmet, pretty aggressive position. Aiming to ride at 72-73% of FTP so ~195 watts, which I think will put me in around 4:50-4:55 with no mechanicals. (I rode Miami 70.3 in 2:25 w/ worse position, no wheel cover, and a rear tire at 70psi @ 190W)

Run: I'm in solid 2:40-low open marathon shape (long runs @ 6:30 pace, 10-mile pace runs @ 6:10 pace). So according to Daniel's VDOT table, at 75-80%FT, my IM projected time is somewhere around 3:10-3:20. "
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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gregn wrote:
"1:11 is what we thought he would swim. He was talking 1:05- 1:10 but his training paces didn't indicate that."

From his April 29th post to this thread:

"Swim: can do 1000scy sets (open turns) in 16:15, so roughly a 1:38/100 pace. Will be wearing a swim skin (let's say taking 2-3sec/100 off) but also will be in an open water washing machine. Best reasonable case is 1:12 for the IM swim.

Bike: FTP of 270, weight of 63.5kg, so ftp/kg of 4.25, which I'm reasonable happy with. Unfortunately IMTX is a pretty flat course so only headline watts matter Will be riding a P2 w/ carbon wheels + wheel cover, aero road helmet, pretty aggressive position. Aiming to ride at 72-73% of FTP so ~195 watts, which I think will put me in around 4:50-4:55 with no mechanicals. (I rode Miami 70.3 in 2:25 w/ worse position, no wheel cover, and a rear tire at 70psi @ 190W)

Run: I'm in solid 2:40-low open marathon shape (long runs @ 6:30 pace, 10-mile pace runs @ 6:10 pace). So according to Daniel's VDOT table, at 75-80%FT, my IM projected time is somewhere around 3:10-3:20. "

Stand corrected, I thought he he been shooting for 2 sub 1:10.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lakercr] [ In reply to ]
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lakercr wrote:
1:11:25 for the swim. 49th in his AG

Only about 46 people to pass now and then off to Kona.

Good luck!

If he puts down a decent bike, I fully expect him to lay down the hurt on much of the AG in the run.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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How are his bike splits. Tracker not working on mobike

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Bike 130 miles01:22:0621.92 mph02:38:423462962709:38:42
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lakercr] [ In reply to ]
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Except the race was wetsuit legal. Everyone will have picked up a few minutes.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [lakercr] [ In reply to ]
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This has been great to follow. I really hope he holds up on the bike. More excited for his race than the local duathlon I'm doing tomorrow.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Asilverm1970] [ In reply to ]
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He's made it up to 22nd through 60 miles. It looks like he's pacing intelligently so far.

In Reply To:

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
He's made it up to 22nd through 60 miles. It looks like he's pacing intelligently so far.

In Reply To:

GO WX!!!!

Meanwhile, the Ironman website to track athletes still sucks.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
He's made it up to 22nd through 60 miles. It looks like he's pacing intelligently so far.

In Reply To:

Yeah, 21.92 and 21.83mph were his first two 30 mile splits.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [badgertri] [ In reply to ]
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badgertri wrote:
sciguy wrote:
He's made it up to 22nd through 60 miles. It looks like he's pacing intelligently so far.

In Reply To:


Yeah, 21.92 and 21.83mph were his first two 30 mile splits.

Isn't the wind direction into their faces a bit coming back in the last 30 miles? He has passed over 300 people total, I know that doesn't mean anything really, but I am impressed. I hope you can maintain his bike and crush it on the run.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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It's getting to be popcorn-thirty!

Great to have a nail-biting thread in which we're rooting FOR rather than against the OP.

_____________________________________
The trouble is
You think you have time.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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scofflaw wrote:
It's getting to be popcorn-thirty!

Great to have a nail-biting thread in which we're rooting FOR rather than against the OP.

Agreed. I'm excited for this guy!




My triathlon training blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [tejanatab] [ In reply to ]
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GET SOME!!!! GET SOME!!!! keep pushing brother.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [coyote39] [ In reply to ]
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Updates?????

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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They only have trackers set up for 30, 60 and 112 miles. So there won't be anything until he wraps up the bike leg.

Current estimate has that as being in about 10 minutes.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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This seems so silly, but I find myself actually tracking a guy I dont know just to watch the end of this story unfold finally!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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You gotta admit, guy's got a pretty big wang to come on ST and call his Kona slot, Babe Ruth style

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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noofus wrote:
This seems so silly, but I find myself actually tracking a guy I dont know just to watch the end of this story unfold finally!

I get it.

It's one of the few cases where, in order, 1) someone shows up and espouses a preposterous goal, 2) the ST community collectively says 'no way', but 3) the dude stuck to his plan, generated his results, and moved the slowtwitcheratti from detractors to (largely) supporters. Now he's got a shot.

It's actually kinda cool, given it's pretty easy to have interactions quickly go negative on the site.

I'm tracking too.



------------------

- I do all my own stunts
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Funny because Xiao Wang (Siu Wong in Cantonese if my translation is correct) means " Little King". I could be wrong as there are loads of intonations that impact the translation, and my Chinese is focused on Cantonese (tough for a white guy).
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like he finished the bike, as he has a T2 time posted, but no total bike split.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TM2194] [ In reply to ]
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But its showing a 2 hour and 19 minute T2... something is horked in there
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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He is up to 9th place...Bike was 5:01!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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noofus wrote:
But its showing a 2 hour and 19 minute T2... something is horked in there

It now shows him 9th of the bike with a 5:01:xx bike split.

Looking good.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
noofus wrote:
But its showing a 2 hour and 19 minute T2... something is horked in there


It now shows him 9th of the bike with a 5:01:xx bike split.

Looking good.

6:20 out to run...if he can do a 3:10-3:20, we are looking at 9:30-9:40 total
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Negative split on the bike. Thats either awesome, or he burned too many matches out there...
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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He should be nearing the first run split in a few minutes
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
6:20 out to run...if he can do a 3:10-3:20, we are looking at 9:30-9:40 total

Will that be enough? I think I'm more interested in his race than who wins the pro race.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Cup] [ In reply to ]
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7:05/mi for the first 3.3mi. Thats not looking so good
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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noofus wrote:
7:05/mi for the first 3.3mi. Thats not looking so good


Hey he's in 7th and running faster than anyone ahead of him. Hopefully he doesn't overcook the first half.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: May 17, 14 11:52
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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noofus wrote:
7:05/mi for the first 3.3mi. Thats not looking so good

7:05 is a 3:06 or so,

I actually think thats a bit too fast to start, he's having a great race so far though.

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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So what is projected as a kq slot.. 5th.? 4th? I asumme usually 6th for a descent shot at a rolldown.


TrainingBible Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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I have no idea who this dude is but I've been thinking about his race all morning. I hope he gets it done. Something that everyone can learn from this guy (whether he qualifies or not) is that he has a positive attitude and doesn't let stuff get him down. He's got some serious balls to open up his entire life and plan on ST. For his courage and determination he certainly deserves to get a spot.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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Hard to say in a 50 spot race,

He is 25-29, so third is a maybe 2nd will probably get him there.

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone else having issues checking in?

Has ST crashed the Athlete tracker trying to follow this guy?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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It seems to have just died
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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I am just glad I am not the only one more excited about this guy KQing then the pro race:) Hope he makes it!!!!

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Hard to say in a 50 spot race,

He is 25-29, so third is a maybe 2nd will probably get him there.

Maurice

At IMFL there was only 2 in our AG, but who knows what the percentages are at IMTX and if it is similar to IMFL.........

-Brad Williams
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [JimMoss] [ In reply to ]
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Right there with you. The whole thing has been fascinating. I hope he makes it.

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [BionicMan] [ In reply to ]
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Ruh roh shaggy. Second split was 8:11. Hope it was just aid station related.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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Something funny again - the first split was previously listed at 3.3 miles and now it shows 3.8.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're right - it used to be 3.3 and 4.5. When it came back up its 3.8 and 4.0.

Also strange that the next was 1.1 and there's still no update
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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I think the timing is screwed up because it also shows he ran a 6min/mile for the first 3.8 miles (but was 3.3 mile split earlier)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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He seems to be moving up. I have him as a favorite and it's showing him 4th at 12 miles, moving up by 1 every split
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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I think 1&2 are going to be hard to catch. Both seem to be running strong and had much faster swim/bike. Everyone else seems to be getting picked off if he keeps it up. Fingers crossed he lays down a monster second half!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently he's at 3:49/mile at the moment so no worries.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Well with 13.5 mile to run...his total time looks to be 7:50, gonna be tough...Go WV!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Check out the overall leaderboard.

Everyone thought that Docherty won, but it appears Wolfgang Weinemann came in with a modest 1:18:58 (3min/mile) Marathon to steal the victory.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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The corrected his split...he increased his pace

12.7 mi3.8 mi24:337:50:316:27/mi
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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3.8 mi 3.8 mi 23:24 6:44:08 6:09/mi


7.8 mi 4 mi 32:45 7:16:53 8:11/mi


8.9 mi 1.1 mi 9:05 7:25:58 8:15/mi


12.7 mi 3.8 mi 24:33 7:50:31 6:27/mi
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [badgertri] [ In reply to ]
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The guys in front of him are slowing down, the guy in 1st had about a 25 min lead so he will not catch him but the guy in 2nd is running 8+ min miles. All this assumes I am checking it right.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Well, the Ironman tracker has, not surprisingly, failed me so I am counting on you guys to keep me posted for the last half of his run!
Last edited by: macwhinb: May 17, 14 13:26
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [macwhinb] [ In reply to ]
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macwhinb wrote:
Well, the Ironman tracker has, not surprisingly, failed me so I am counting on you guys to keep me posted for the last half of his run!

I can only pay attention for about 15 mins...going to an early dinner date with the wife...I hope he makes it. I was looking at the transitions times, the guys ahead gain 2-4 mins on him just in transition. Its clear he has the ability.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
The guys in front of him are slowing down, the guy in 1st had about a 25 min lead so he will not catch him but the guy in 2nd is running 8+ min miles. All this assumes I am checking it right.

You can't look at pace right now because they are all screwed up. Looking at the race time on each split is the best bet. Right now he is in 4th but we need to see when the 16.7 mile time comes in. I missed one of them but there are 3 guys that were at least 9 minutes ahead at 12.7 miles (2 which are way ahead). That is a lot of ground to make up, but he seems to be running strong.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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PeteDin206 wrote:
blueraider_mike wrote:
The guys in front of him are slowing down, the guy in 1st had about a 25 min lead so he will not catch him but the guy in 2nd is running 8+ min miles. All this assumes I am checking it right.


You can't look at pace right now because they are all screwed up. Looking at the race time on each split is the best bet. Right now he is in 4th but we need to see when the 16.7 mile time comes in. I missed one of them but there are 3 guys that were at least 9 minutes ahead at 12.7 miles (2 which are way ahead). That is a lot of ground to make up, but he seems to be running strong.

Your right, he is 6 mins down from thirst at 17.8 mile mark.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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This has got to rank up there as one of the best threads I've read on ST. Maybe second to the whole "T3" debacle, but still up there.

GO WX!! I was thinking about this all day today on my long ride. This guy will be a ST legend if he pulls it off.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
PeteDin206 wrote:
blueraider_mike wrote:
The guys in front of him are slowing down, the guy in 1st had about a 25 min lead so he will not catch him but the guy in 2nd is running 8+ min miles. All this assumes I am checking it right.


You can't look at pace right now because they are all screwed up. Looking at the race time on each split is the best bet. Right now he is in 4th but we need to see when the 16.7 mile time comes in. I missed one of them but there are 3 guys that were at least 9 minutes ahead at 12.7 miles (2 which are way ahead). That is a lot of ground to make up, but he seems to be running strong.


Your right, he is 6 mins down from thirst at 17.8 mile mark.

He did make up 3 minutes in 5 miles. So 6 minutes in the last 9 is possible. Depends on how good this third place runner is and how well each of them paced the race.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Less then 4 minutes down on 3rd with 4.6 miles to go. He seems to be putting about 40 seconds per mile if my quick math is right. This is going to be SOOO tight!. GO WX GO!!!
Last edited by: PeteDin206: May 17, 14 14:03
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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New splits in - He's making up about 35 seconds per mile on third place.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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First just finished.. for the record he has his profession as "professional triathlete" good race by him though.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Staz wrote:
First just finished.. for the record he has his profession as "professional triathlete" good race by him though.

I caught that as well.........Interesting "profession" for an AG'er. Even if he is still training full time and racing AG'er I still would never call myself a "pro". Maybe he is turning pro soon? I did read somewhere that he turned down a Kona slot last year though.......

-Brad Williams
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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This thread reminds me of the guy who had his bike stolen on the way to his ironman out of his car and after his post on Slowtwitch a loaner bike was arranged for him and he went on to have a great day. All of slowtwitch was tracking him on race day. I am rooting for OP.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [magda] [ In reply to ]
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go WX!!!!!

to make this day complete, he must stiff-arm the guy he passes for 2nd ala that one chick who got beaned, and then a gorilla needs to be involved somehow.

if he pulls this off, @TheRealStarky needs to commemorate him with the shirt because he will be a #champion

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
go WX!!!!!

to make this day complete, he must stiff-arm the guy he passes for 2nd ala that one chick who got beaned, and then a gorilla needs to be involved somehow.

if he pulls this off, @TheRealStarky needs to commemorate him with the shirt because he will be a #champion

And #blessed

Also cheering for WX - hope he pulls this off.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [magda] [ In reply to ]
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I'm actually watching the live feed right now waiting for him to finish... I should be out on a run right now but this is too captivating...
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]
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Tripp Hipple.

automatic professional career with a name like that.

afbadbrad wrote:
Staz wrote:
First just finished.. for the record he has his profession as "professional triathlete" good race by him though.


I caught that as well.........Interesting "profession" for an AG'er. Even if he is still training full time and racing AG'er I still would never call myself a "pro". Maybe he is turning pro soon? I did read somewhere that he turned down a Kona slot last year though.......

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
go WX!!!!!

to make this day complete, he must stiff-arm the guy he passes for 2nd ala that one chick who got beaned, and then a gorilla needs to be involved somehow.

if he pulls this off, @TheRealStarky needs to commemorate him with the shirt because he will be a #champion

@TheRealStarky would give him a #1stloser t-shirt if he finishes 2nd.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Wow and the live feed just f'd up. WTC you need to sort your sh!t out, this is sad.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Missing out on a perfect day (assuming you're actually in the 206), but I can't really blame you.
Last edited by: dwesley: May 17, 14 14:36
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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I think the guy he's chasing already KQ'd at Arizona last fall. That might mean he's already got it!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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9:37

JUST FINISHED!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Just came in

9:37:10


Is that going to do it???

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [warofthemorning] [ In reply to ]
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Seconds behind third!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Just missed 3rd!!!! Like 10 seconds. Wow great race he gave everything! Let's hope it was enough
Last edited by: Staz: May 17, 14 14:40
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [warofthemorning] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't posted but been following from beginning. That's a great time.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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PeteDin206 wrote:
Wow and the live feed just f'd up. WTC you need to sort your sh!t out, this is sad.


He just passed through. Looks like 9:37 or thereabouts! Congrats XW!

EDit: Not sure about the time, I saw it go from 9:40 to 9:35 or something. Anyhow good job!




My triathlon training blog
Last edited by: tejanatab: May 17, 14 14:41
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Midi-chlorian] [ In reply to ]
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That's awesome. I hope he has some great luck w/ the roll down.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [dwesley] [ In reply to ]
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dwesley wrote:
Missing out on a perfect day (assuming you're actually in the 206), but I can't really blame you.

Yeah I know. I'm heading out now... NICE WORK XIAO! Can't wait to hear if you got your slot!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mkazan] [ In reply to ]
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closer still.... 9:39 w/ less than a mile to go

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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That's incredible. Talk about making a plan and executing it. Good on him, I hope he gets it!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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4th in 9:37, fingers crossed, he had a great race.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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What an epic thread, with such an amazing finish for WX! Crossing my fingers that he gets the slot - MUCH deserved.
In Reply To:

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Just noticed that his run split beat the AG winner.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Staz wrote:
Just missed 3rd!!!! Like 10 seconds. Wow great race he gave everything! Let's hope it was enough

+1
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations on a well-executed race! Major props to you!

~~ kate
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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When is the roll down? Tomorrow? I don't know how these things work.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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And the guy in third won the spot with his swim, you don't see that everyday. And wow, the guaranteed Kona slots for his AG where 20+ min. ahead.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mkazan] [ In reply to ]
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mkazan wrote:
I think the guy he's chasing already KQ'd at Arizona last fall. That might mean he's already got it!

Yeah, the guy who came in 3rd today was 1st in AG in Arizona.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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Man, the swim and transitions killed him. The amount of time he got back on the field in the run is wild. 12 minutes on third place and 8 on 2nd.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
And the guy in third won the spot with his swim, you don't see that everyday. And wow, the guaranteed Kona slots for his AG where 20+ min. ahead.

Actually the guy in 3rd won with his transitions... Approx 3min in T1/T2, where as WX was approx 5min and 3min in T1/T2 respectively. Still totally awesome day and I really hope Xiao gets a slot. This thread has been amazing.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Staz wrote:
Just missed 3rd!!!! Like 10 seconds. Wow great race he gave everything! Let's hope it was enough

He lost 2 min to 3rd place in T1. Bummer. I hope the roll down is kind to him.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [katcycles] [ In reply to ]
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Great race execution!
We are assuming 2 slots?
Anyone know anything about #1 and #2? Do they already have slots? Do they usually do Kona?
Sounds like #3 already has his slot...

Paul
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [katcycles] [ In reply to ]
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katcycles wrote:
mkazan wrote:
I think the guy he's chasing already KQ'd at Arizona last fall. That might mean he's already got it!


Yeah, the guy who came in 3rd today was 1st in AG in Arizona.

That might bode well for at least one roll down.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [IMPBAZ] [ In reply to ]
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IMPBAZ wrote:
Great race execution!
We are assuming 2 slots?
Anyone know anything about #1 and #2? Do they already have slots? Do they usually do Kona?
Sounds like #3 already has his slot...

Paul

I was wondering this as well. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [katcycles] [ In reply to ]
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then hopefully 3rd already has a Kona slot & WX is a little closer.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TropicPlace] [ In reply to ]
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TropicPlace wrote:
IMPBAZ wrote:
Great race execution!
We are assuming 2 slots?
Anyone know anything about #1 and #2? Do they already have slots? Do they usually do Kona?
Sounds like #3 already has his slot...

Paul


I was wondering this as well. Keeping my fingers crossed!

I can't find anything on 1st and 2nd in terms of other races. It looks like 2nd KQ'd at IMTX in 2012, but didn't race it IMTX or Kona last year. First place is a bit of a mystery with the "Professional Triathlete" as his job description.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber
Guess we will have to wait and see.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [IMPBAZ] [ In reply to ]
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IMPBAZ wrote:
Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber
Guess we will have to wait and see.

There is a lot of stuff on 2nd on Athlinks, but no other races for this year (or late last) that would indicate a KQ. The 1st place guy is a bit of an anomaly. He has raced IMTX before (took 3rd last year) but really nothing on him using my GoogleFu. Only thing I could find was his Twitter which indicates he races for/with Elite AG QT2
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Just looked back an an old thread for IM Texas 2012...

There were 3 slots for Kona in 25-29 for that race!

Odds just went up in my mind!!

Paul
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [IMPBAZ] [ In reply to ]
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Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.

Proudly Team BSR
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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3rd place already posting on ST?? What a drug ST is haha.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations yourself on today and Arizona. Great news for his qualification hopes.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.

You know this site is addictive when:) Congrats to both of you on fantastic races! I REALLY hope he qualifies. Not too many people can put up a thread like this and take both the good and bad comments, and keep the dream alive till race day.

Good luck!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [k89533720] [ In reply to ]
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Just got home from dinner and had to check. 4th place. And right on the time he targeted on the OP. Sure hope someone in front of him already has a slot.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say Herbert should do a Random AGer interview, but we probably already know more about WX than we need to. Including all the relationship advice :)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.

Nice race today... I'll admit, I was really hoping he would run you down because it would have made for epic ST lore. That being said, congrats on your AZ Win and KQ, I'm really hoping we get to see a rematch of this race in Kona come October.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Both 1st and 2nd are QT2 teammates. I don't have any inside info on if they are taking their Kona slots, but would be surprised if they did not...


PeteDin206 wrote:
IMPBAZ wrote:
Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber
Guess we will have to wait and see.


There is a lot of stuff on 2nd on Athlinks, but no other races for this year (or late last) that would indicate a KQ. The 1st place guy is a bit of an anomaly. He has raced IMTX before (took 3rd last year) but really nothing on him using my GoogleFu. Only thing I could find was his Twitter which indicates he races for/with Elite AG QT2
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on a great race. I've lurked at your thread for almost a year now. Hope you get a roll down.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Another lurker here. Congrats and I hope the slots go three deep.


I'm just this guy ya know?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [blanco] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, Coach Cox predicted 3 Kona slots for M25-29 in his breakdown of the participant list last week. If the starters for the race hold up, there could be a rolldown for him!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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9:37:10 CONGRATULATIONS !

Eric - "Train Smart, Race Smart, Finish Strong"
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Russ Brandt] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like 23 spots have at least 1 AG

So if it is a 50 spot race that leaves 27 without any older AG roll down (some of them have only 1 athlete)

Assuming there are 2052 finishers then that is one spot for every 76 competitors.

Meaning that with 152 athletes in 25-29 (starters) he has a chance at 3 spots in his AG. We still don't know the DNF or start rate etc.

Of course my math might be totally wrong and biased towards the OP.

Hope he gets it!!!

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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My money says he's going to get it. And WX and this thread will go down as one of the greatest stories in ST history. And I'm totally serious.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Russ Brandt] [ In reply to ]
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There are 3 slots for M25.

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.us | sylvan@sportstats.us | Starvas
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
There are 3 slots for M25.

"like" button
"like" button
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [greenjp] [ In reply to ]
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Great time and great thread. Hope to hear an official "I'm in" coming from him soon.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [greenjp] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on a great race. It has been fun lurking here!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [joggernut] [ In reply to ]
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joggernut wrote:
Both 1st and 2nd are QT2 teammates. I don't have any inside info on if they are taking their Kona slots, but would be surprised if they did not...



PeteDin206 wrote:
IMPBAZ wrote:
Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber

Guess we will have to wait and see.


There is a lot of stuff on 2nd on Athlinks, but no other races for this year (or late last) that would indicate a KQ. The 1st place guy is a bit of an anomaly. He has raced IMTX before (took 3rd last year) but really nothing on him using my GoogleFu. Only thing I could find was his Twitter which indicates he races for/with Elite AG QT2


Looks like the guy in 1st is not a QT2 but with this guy's squad out of Boulder, look at the first post on his FB page, says he is NOT taking the Kona Slot! Looks like WX is a LOCK!!

https://www.facebook.com/BorgerEndurance/timeline

"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [thirstygreek] [ In reply to ]
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thirstygreek wrote:
joggernut wrote:
Both 1st and 2nd are QT2 teammates. I don't have any inside info on if they are taking their Kona slots, but would be surprised if they did not...



PeteDin206 wrote:
IMPBAZ wrote:
Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber

Guess we will have to wait and see.


There is a lot of stuff on 2nd on Athlinks, but no other races for this year (or late last) that would indicate a KQ. The 1st place guy is a bit of an anomaly. He has raced IMTX before (took 3rd last year) but really nothing on him using my GoogleFu. Only thing I could find was his Twitter which indicates he races for/with Elite AG QT2


Looks like the guy in 1st is not a QT2 but with this guy's squad out of Boulder, look at the first post on his FB page, says he is NOT taking the Kona Slot! Looks like WX is a LOCK!!

https://www.facebook.com/BorgerEndurance/timeline[/quote[/url]]



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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [amgray13] [ In reply to ]
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amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.

Thanks Aaron! (And you mentioning you were passing on your slot saved me from hours of anguish) And to everyone who has been following this thread / today. It has been an incredible journey and I'm in an incredible amount of pain.

A meatier recap to come later, but a few notes from today:
- T1 was due to me being an idiot and grabbing the wrong bike bag. Then had to go all the way back to return it from the changing tent. Yes, I am that dumb.
- The run was the hardest marathon I have ever done. Parts of me I didn't know had muscles were cramping all over the place.
- I heard 3rd place was around 4 minutes up with around 6 miles to go, just went for it... and couldn't quite do it. Props to Aaron for running a great race and for commenting on ST within an hour. That's an amazing combo.
- Did I mention an ironman is frickin difficult? The swim was hard. The bike was hard. The run made me question my love for running. And I really enjoy running.

Will go to the roll down and hope tomorrow. The post around first place passing on his slot was from last year, sadly. Also I heard that M-Dot gives out awards to the top 5 per age group? (Couldn't find any details in the athlete guide so was debating whether or not to attend the awards ceremony tomorrow)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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You better go to rolldown. Did you see the guy from the timing company say there are 3 slots??? DUDE, YOU ARE GOING TO THE BIG DANCE!!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for kicking ass, following you has been a treat. Awesome performance.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Show up,

I believe you'll get a free Timex HRM or GPS for top 5,

So you could use it save it for a christmas gift or just give it away etc . So show up to get a free watch at least.

Read the post from sports stats, looks like you've got a spot.

Read the rules and show up on time…..


I saw the 25-29 winner at IMC show up 5 min late for her spot in 2012….denied.


Any ways I've said show about 4 times.


Great race and a great story, goes down as one of the best ST threads without some element of cheating, Ferns, Fins etc.


Congrats.

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.

Thanks Aaron! (And you mentioning you were passing on your slot saved me from hours of anguish) And to everyone who has been following this thread / today. It has been an incredible journey and I'm in an incredible amount of pain.

A meatier recap to come later, but a few notes from today:
- T1 was due to me being an idiot and grabbing the wrong bike bag. Then had to go all the way back to return it from the changing tent. Yes, I am that dumb.
- The run was the hardest marathon I have ever done. Parts of me I didn't know had muscles were cramping all over the place.
- I heard 3rd place was around 4 minutes up with around 6 miles to go, just went for it... and couldn't quite do it. Props to Aaron for running a great race and for commenting on ST within an hour. That's an amazing combo.
- Did I mention an ironman is frickin difficult? The swim was hard. The bike was hard. The run made me question my love for running. And I really enjoy running.

Will go to the roll down and hope tomorrow. The post around first place passing on his slot was from last year, sadly. Also I heard that M-Dot gives out awards to the top 5 per age group? (Couldn't find any details in the athlete guide so was debating whether or not to attend the awards ceremony tomorrow)

Fingers crossed on having 5 months to prep for Kona where you will hopefully have a shot at running Aaron down again.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:

Will go to the roll down and hope tomorrow. The post around first place passing on his slot was from last year, sadly. Also I heard that M-Dot gives out awards to the top 5 per age group? (Couldn't find any details in the athlete guide so was debating whether or not to attend the awards ceremony tomorrow)

Nice job on your race!

WTC podium is 5 deep at NA races, so you'll get an award, but watch/HRM only goes to 1st.

WTC has changed the rolldown procedure this year. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on get called for kona slots. You have to be present to accept.

Gone is the earlier sign up for the outright qualifiers and then a separate rolldown.

Team Dimond
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
There are 3 slots for M25.

Woot!

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Get your checkbook!

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. Generally impressed. Congrats.

___________________
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
There are 3 slots for M25.

Awesomeness.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [greenjp] [ In reply to ]
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Assume there will be additional slots going to some other age groups as well since, sadly, the women in the 65-69 and 70-74 age groups were DNF's.

Dark Horse Triathlon
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [thirstygreek] [ In reply to ]
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thirstygreek wrote:
joggernut wrote:
Both 1st and 2nd are QT2 teammates. I don't have any inside info on if they are taking their Kona slots, but would be surprised if they did not...



PeteDin206 wrote:
IMPBAZ wrote:
Kind of unusual for athletes of this caliber

Guess we will have to wait and see.


There is a lot of stuff on 2nd on Athlinks, but no other races for this year (or late last) that would indicate a KQ. The 1st place guy is a bit of an anomaly. He has raced IMTX before (took 3rd last year) but really nothing on him using my GoogleFu. Only thing I could find was his Twitter which indicates he races for/with Elite AG QT2


Looks like the guy in 1st is not a QT2 but with this guy's squad out of Boulder, look at the first post on his FB page, says he is NOT taking the Kona Slot! Looks like WX is a LOCK!!

https://www.facebook.com/BorgerEndurance/timeline

FYI, that is from 2013......The AG Winners Twitter account says he is on QT2. But Sylvan said there are 3 slots so sounds like WX is in since 3rd won his AG at IMAZ.

-Brad Williams
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.


Thanks Aaron! (And you mentioning you were passing on your slot saved me from hours of anguish) And to everyone who has been following this thread / today. It has been an incredible journey and I'm in an incredible amount of pain.

A meatier recap to come later, but a few notes from today:
- T1 was due to me being an idiot and grabbing the wrong bike bag. Then had to go all the way back to return it from the changing tent. Yes, I am that dumb.
- The run was the hardest marathon I have ever done. Parts of me I didn't know had muscles were cramping all over the place.
- I heard 3rd place was around 4 minutes up with around 6 miles to go, just went for it... and couldn't quite do it. Props to Aaron for running a great race and for commenting on ST within an hour. That's an amazing combo.
- Did I mention an ironman is frickin difficult? The swim was hard. The bike was hard. The run made me question my love for running. And I really enjoy running.

Will go to the roll down and hope tomorrow. The post around first place passing on his slot was from last year, sadly. Also I heard that M-Dot gives out awards to the top 5 per age group? (Couldn't find any details in the athlete guide so was debating whether or not to attend the awards ceremony tomorrow)

Yes, you get an award and the slot allocation is done there, so don't miss it! Congrats!

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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This means that he will get a slot within the rolldown! This would be awesome for him!

-D
Last edited by: TriDav: May 18, 14 4:10
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic race WX, seems like you executed almost perfectly.
Great thread to follow - love the fact you were happy to put your goals out there. Looks like you've got that KQ spot, you absolutely deserve it.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TriDav] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is epic. The dude puts his balls on the table almost a year ago. Got stepped on, trampled, slammed, & made fun of. With that said, there were some good bits of advice even early on. He weathered the typical ST onslaught, stuck to his training without fail, went out there & destroyed that course with a bike+run split combo that many (myself included) can only talk about. This ranks up there with T3 & others as all-time greats - easy to kill an afternoon re-reading, but with a positive vibe. From the looks of things he's in without having to hope for a roll down. Congrats WX, you deserve it man.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Jamaican] [ In reply to ]
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Long time lurker , first time poster. I love reading the stuff on this forum. You guys have taught me so much but never wanted to post. After watching this thread from the beginning I decided it was time. Awesome job WX! Freaking unbelievable!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I expect there will be another flurry of posts around 1:45 today. Good luck on the roll down. We are looking forward to expanding this thread for another 5 months. Cheers!

Ps - Mrs. Tropic also says good luck. Although, she isn't so excited about this thread continuing on (there must be something wrong with her./pink)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TropicPlace] [ In reply to ]
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I gotta say when I finished I got on as soon as possible to see where he finished. Great work out there WX!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, even your summary is exciting! You did an incredible thing yesterday, and as others have said, you deserve a ton of congratulations. There are many people that have the hardware to KQ, but getting race execution just right is a hard thing to do. Your bag mishap could have easily been the difference between qualifying and not. There are guys that got left out because they stopped to pee, tied their shoes or other similar seemingly small things on a long day. The fun thing about this sport is that next time I bet you have pink ribbons all over your bag so that doesn't happen again, but there are any number of other "mistakes" that lurk out there for the next time you race. (FYI, if your next race is Kona, they'll take all your bag decorations off, another thing that makes that race really cool). Keep on chugging and enjoy your summer!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Russ Brandt] [ In reply to ]
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Ok be honest, who today needs to sit down with a big ass bowl of crow and chow down? Went back and re read some of the early posts and like was said above, this dude got hammered pretty good for his dreams. Admittedly I thought this wouldn't last especially since the thread went cold for a long time and he had some vacations (missed training time) in there but dude killed it on race day.

Way to go WX, you are the 2014 version of Julie Moss, going to inspire a whole new generation of dreamers!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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here was my post from the first page....

ericM40-44 wrote:
this thread needs a meme


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ngrabow] [ In reply to ]
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ngrabow wrote:
Assume there will be additional slots going to some other age groups as well since, sadly, the women in the 65-69 and 70-74 age groups were DNF's.

Female reallocations go to female athletes don't thyroid?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [iron07] [ In reply to ]
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Although I don't think I commented on the thread, but as I read it over the months my thought was similar to others. He has the goods, tenacity and capability, but I would have said that is not all that matters to KQ. You have to have the capability AND a near perfectly executed race. As he demonstrated, it's possible to get it close to right the first time, but that is very unlikely with all that could go wrong. I'd have to say that having a resource like Slowtwitch where you can glean things off of others' experiences (if you can stomach and sift through the noise) is a great help that can shorten the learning curve. Cam pointed out very early that luck is involved too, and I'd say that the fact that he most likely got the first rolldown was pretty lucky. It's hard to plan luck, but you need it when you are on the bubble.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Wow! I only followed this thread in bits and pieces throughout the past months, but couldn't help following you online and cheering for you yesterday. I even clapped when I saw you on the live feed crossing the finish line and I don't even know you! :) Awesome job out there. You should be very proud of your accomplishment at setting a lofty goal and then getting it done! I'm crossing my fingers for you that you'll get to do it all over again in Kona this October!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [iron07] [ In reply to ]
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iron07 wrote:
Ok be honest, who today needs to sit down with a big ass bowl of crow and chow down?

Right here! I like mine sautéed. :) I didn't think he had any reasonable chance shooting for the race in Cabos based on the time he had until the that race and the amount of training time he was able to put in. I think chugging to IMTX was the best thing he could have possibly done as it gave him a few more months.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Russ Brandt] [ In reply to ]
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good points Russ.

Russ Brandt wrote:
Wow, even your summary is exciting! You did an incredible thing yesterday, and as others have said, you deserve a ton of congratulations. There are many people that have the hardware to KQ, but getting race execution just right is a hard thing to do. Your bag mishap could have easily been the difference between qualifying and not. There are guys that got left out because they stopped to pee, tied their shoes or other similar seemingly small things on a long day. The fun thing about this sport is that next time I bet you have pink ribbons all over your bag so that doesn't happen again, but there are any number of other "mistakes" that lurk out there for the next time you race. (FYI, if your next race is Kona, they'll take all your bag decorations off, another thing that makes that race really cool). Keep on chugging and enjoy your summer!

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [iron07] [ In reply to ]
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iron07 wrote:
Ok be honest, who today needs to sit down with a big ass bowl of crow and chow down?

here's what I said on page 2. My comments weren't so much that he couldn't do it, but that he was (at the time, all running no swimming or biking) doing it wrong and he needed to get his mind wrapped around the problem (the Ironman is all about the bike, because the run). Coming from somebody who knows, who did what he did but on a much longer timeline. Ability is only half the equation, as Russ said the other half is execution and those of us mortals on the bubble who have gone to Kona have been feasting on the tears of the vanquished not because we were more able but because we were more ready to execute and to do what it took.

some of us say what we say because the truth hurts, but it's tough love. Rereading this thread there are plenty of $400/mo coaching comments from some very smart and helpful people, if you know what to look for.

ericM40-44 wrote:
I probably already said this on page one but I'm too lazy to check.
you're grossly mis-priortizing your training time. you've got it all backwards really. You could probably squeeze by with 25mi per week of running and then allocate that additional time to biking.

we've already discussed your swim at length. it's going to end your day at TX, no doubt.

way more swimming, more biking. less enthusiasm and positivity and some critical thinking as to how you're really going to accomplish this. IM roll downs are littered with the weeping carcasses of guys like you, and further the back half of the marathon at Kona is littered with guys who just *knew* that they were going to go sub-10 at Kona but end up walking to 11:00.

step one: control what you can control.

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think anyone needs to apologize here.
I read most of the thread, and people were honest, and there was a LOT of really good advice.

Reading WX's posts (and some quick internet stalking) tells you that the guy is smart. Realistic about his weaknesses (and managing those weaknesses) and he was not deterred by the negative stuff. Not that all of that guarantees success, there were a couple of very talented M25-29's out there. And there was some good luck.

Great post, great race by WX, good luck on the rolldown.
And amgray13...great race execution! You had a really gifted runner trying to run you down!

Paul
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [IMPBAZ] [ In reply to ]
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IMPBAZ wrote:
I don't think anyone needs to apologize here.
I read most of the thread, and people were honest, and there was a LOT of really good advice.

Reading WX's posts (and some quick internet stalking) tells you that the guy is smart. Realistic about his weaknesses (and managing those weaknesses) and he was not deterred by the negative stuff. Not that all of that guarantees success, there were a couple of very talented M25-29's out there. And there was some good luck.

Great post, great race by WX, good luck on the rolldown.
And amgray13...great race execution! You had a really gifted runner trying to run you down!

Paul

I agree. He's way beyond my skill set but you could tell from the start he was different than "raw speed", "Sub 10 IMLP First Triathlon Ever", etc. I think this thread should be a sticky given the story and how he even made a last minute switch on IMs because he did not feel he was ready. No excuses. Love it.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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M2529 Kona Slot presentations:

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.us | sylvan@sportstats.us | Starvas
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Incredible!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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HUGE congrats to you; and, equally awesome, big-time congrats to the masses of STer's who made this such a cool, positive thread. Really nice to see. See ya' in Kona! barry.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Walking down those steps looked a bit painful.

Congrats WX!!

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Alright!

3Aims and WX, congrats to both of you!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
M2529 Kona Slot presentations:

Very cool!! This dude has become a ST legend!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, he's officially claimed his spot. That means Kona preparation starts today and the congratulations are officially closed. Time to reharden The WX up. I'll start. You went down those steps like a total pussy. No way will you break 10 in Kona.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats Tripp!!!!

So the top 3 did not take a slot? You came in 4th right? Great race!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats, WX!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Great thread...You the man Wang!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats !!!!!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [jime] [ In reply to ]
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jime wrote:
Congrats Tripp!!!!

So the top 3 did not take a slot? You came in 4th right? Great race!

3rd already got a slot at IMAZ
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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That's great.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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This may be the greatest thread in Slowtwitch history. Congratulations.

Now do humanity a favor and start a "One shot at curing cancer-here goes!" thread.

Eganski tweets
Eganski Blogs
PAINCAVE
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
This may be the greatest thread in Slowtwitch history. Congratulations.

Now do humanity a favor and start a "One shot at curing cancer-here goes!" thread.

HAHA! This!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats! Good to see a Boston guy grab a slot!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations man- you deserve every bit of satisfaction knowing you set your goals and accomplished them. Enjoy Kona!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! Can't wait to see you in Kona!

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete
Snapple Pro Triathlon Team The best team on Earth!
Instagram- @timbikerun
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Timbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats!


Had to catch up on the thread yesterday.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Twitter
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
M2529 Kona Slot presentations:

SMOOCH for that! this guy is already legendary and i don't know why but i'm totally loving him! what an amazing story.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats, you deserve it! This has been an epic thread to follow.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Timbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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Really cool to see this unfold. Congrats man!


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
M2529 Kona Slot presentations:

Always nice to have you posting on ST

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
- Triathlon Optimized |Aerodynamic Bike Fitting | Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting | Triathlon Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
This may be the greatest thread in Slowtwitch history. Congratulations.

Now do humanity a favor and start a "One shot at curing cancer-here goes!" thread.

I want to see a ST Interview on this cat asap.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats! Savor this summer.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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hI dEF vErSiOn!!!



It's way better. I have my phone in one of those Lifeproof cases which mucks up the sound I think.

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.us | sylvan@sportstats.us | Starvas
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
hI dEF vErSiOn!!!



It's way better. I have my phone in one of those Lifeproof cases which mucks up the sound I think.

That was better. Thanks for posting it and for your contributions to ST. This whole thing has been like watching a suspenseful movie. Glad it ended well!

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Well done - this has been a truly inspiring post!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [DiscreetAthlete] [ In reply to ]
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Bravo WX.
Congratulations.

Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Looong time lurker and been following this post for a year! Just wanted to say well done and much deserved - an inspiration to someone in their first year of Tri! Enjoy Kona!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Was thinking I'd do treadmill/spin sessions in sweats - did you do anything better for heat acclimatization?

Train in your utility room after removing the blower hose from the dryer- just turn on the dryer and you'll have it 110 degrees (if your utility room is inclosed).

Proud Representative of Slowtwitch Anti-Atheists Society.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Iamironman] [ In reply to ]
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Great race WX, awesome thread to follow.
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Buy Green Coffee Beans [ In reply to ]
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You want to eat in went to eat them so you never have to worry about your diet in fact we focus on creating meal plans based on the types of foods you like and reed each time you eat your metabolism goes up for about couple hours and then one of two things happen next one it will either come crashing down if he had buy green coffee beans food that was processed high.
In crabs or sugar man that's why most people get their after lunch sleepy crash or chill it will slowly creep back down ideally just in time for you to eat something healthy again a boost to right back up and that's the secret to maintaining high metabolism all day long eating smaller portions have healthy versions are the foods they already like more often throughout the day by doing this you're going to maintain. A higher metabolism all day long without the dreaded crash but if you stick to only eating two meals a day like most Americans and your really.
Cars into problems for yourself first-year tone your body to store more of what you're eating as fat by making you think.
There's a famine or food shortage plus by only eating once or twice a day you’re forcing your metabolism to get slow and stay slow and that's never a good thing when you want to burn more fat here's proof that eating healthier foods in smaller portions more frequently helps.
Keep you lean and town think about what animals do allay long in the wild there either chasing or being chased right that's the equivalent to your workouts and other animals graze small amounts of food.
All day long think about this have you ever seen in overweight zebra giraffe or gazelle that's because they're grazing all daylong and their active just like you will be when you join my fitness training program now buy green coffee beans let me explain something to you here now I'm not going to take away your tasty crabs in fact but I am going to manipulate where the phone your daily eating schedule there's nothing.
Wrong with eating crabs long as you're eating your crabs earlier in the day the problem is when we eat crabs later into the evening guess what happens your body looks at carbohydrates like bread pasta sugars in potatoes as energy and if you don't use it as energy then he gets stored as fat that's the last thing you want right so if you're eating crabs late into the day .

http://www.buygreencoffeebeans.org/
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Re: Buy Green Coffee Beans [Hayley0] [ In reply to ]
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WX - You know you've made the big time when the spammers start using your thread!

Great job!
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Re: Buy Green Coffee Beans [LoDewey] [ In reply to ]
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Huge congrats, WX! I've followed this thread from the beginning and cheered you on virtually on Sat.

Well done!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats again now that it is official. Incredible work for your first IM. Looking forward to some friendly competition in Kona, guess I need to start running even more.

Proudly Team BSR
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Hands down, best thread on ST I've seen in the 9 years I've been on this forum. Best of luck to you in October - Kona is your victory lap!
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Re: Buy Green Coffee Beans [Hayley0] [ In reply to ]
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Wow WX, your thread got spammed. That's impressive.

Now, forget the spamming green coffee crap. I imagine that Kona has some seriously good coffee! Congrats again!
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Re: Buy Green Coffee Beans [Hayley0] [ In reply to ]
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hey man, you leave my tasty CRABS out of this conversation. They're Tasty and I'm LOVING EVERY MINUTE of them.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I too have been lurking on this thread since its inception. It was one hell of a cliffhanger, and it was so gratifying to see your dedication, your planning, and your gutsy, smart approach to training and racing bring you ultimate victory. Congratulations! And enjoy your Kona experience!

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Eppur si muove] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats followed this one from the start! you have given me even more motivation
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Eppur si muove] [ In reply to ]
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Another big congrats from a lurker. Fantastic job! Can't wait to read the next chapter!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
amgray13 wrote:
Nice race and awesome first IM, WX! I was the third place, but a fellow poster is correct, I got a a KQ at IMAZ, let him know in the finishing shoot and he seemed relieved. I hope there are three slots or a nice roll down.


Thanks Aaron! (And you mentioning you were passing on your slot saved me from hours of anguish) And to everyone who has been following this thread / today. It has been an incredible journey and I'm in an incredible amount of pain.

A meatier recap to come later, but a few notes from today:
- T1 was due to me being an idiot and grabbing the wrong bike bag. Then had to go all the way back to return it from the changing tent. Yes, I am that dumb.
- The run was the hardest marathon I have ever done. Parts of me I didn't know had muscles were cramping all over the place.
- I heard 3rd place was around 4 minutes up with around 6 miles to go, just went for it... and couldn't quite do it. Props to Aaron for running a great race and for commenting on ST within an hour. That's an amazing combo.
- Did I mention an ironman is frickin difficult? The swim was hard. The bike was hard. The run made me question my love for running. And I really enjoy running.

Will go to the roll down and hope tomorrow. The post around first place passing on his slot was from last year, sadly. Also I heard that M-Dot gives out awards to the top 5 per age group? (Couldn't find any details in the athlete guide so was debating whether or not to attend the awards ceremony tomorrow)


Congrats on the accomplishment!

Now go here ->http://www.gofundme.com/ and set up a Kona trip fund. I'll start the donations with $25.00. I bet a few of us here would donate some money to make your next effort a memorable one.

Post the link back on this thread.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Great job! Congrats on the KQ!
I have to admit, I was worried after seeing the times and qualifiers for IM Los Cabos. I thought you may have made a mistake and missed out on your chance by not doing that one. But great job on doing what you needed to when it counts.
Now get going on that write-up. We all want to hear the full story.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ubdawg] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome job. I watched the awards and it was really cool to see you get that roll down slot. Impressive!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I was able to find him and catch up with him the day after the race. He seems to be one of the nicest guys out there. He was amazed at the attention this thread garnered. He definitely appears to be very humble and down to earth. I really enjoyed talking with you, Mr. WX. I look forward to following this going forward.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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[/img]

I wanted to just share this picture from a minute or two after allocation. As a guy who has followed this thread from the beginning, I was honored to meet him and watch him grab his first slot to Kona. I sort of wish I would have had Xiao autograph my Kona slot for this year...

It was awesome to meet you man and can't wait to catch up again on the Big Island in October!

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
[/img]

I wanted to just share this picture from a minute or two after allocation. As a guy who has followed this thread from the beginning, I was honored to meet him and watch him grab his first slot to Kona. I sort of wish I would have had Xiao autograph my Kona slot for this year...

It was awesome to meet you man and can't wait to catch up again on the Big Island in October!

Pretty awesome guys...well done!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
Dude. No other words than I hope you can do it. Just train your ass off and have fun. Kona is a badass prize if the race goes well!

Colin, I needed to quote what you said within the first 10 posts of the thread.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats man, long time lurker of this thread as well! I have to say this was pretty epic and it's awesome to see the final outcome and see all of the hard work pay off.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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epic thread! saw this over the weekend and had to go back and catch up. congrats!

now when do we get to see the Kona plan?

r
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [raulsan] [ In reply to ]
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Earlier someone posted the idea of creating a fundraising page to support XW. I'm guessing, but don't want to put words in his mouth, that XW would even more appreciate our collective support of his Robin Hood Endurance Team initiative. $5,190 raised to date is weak sauce for a Slowtwitch legend! Make it rain Twitcherati!

https://www.crowdrise.com/RobinHoodTeamEndurance/fundraiser/XiaoWang


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [raulsan] [ In reply to ]
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raulsan wrote:
epic thread! saw this over the weekend and had to go back and catch up. congrats!

now when do we get to see the Kona plan?

r

This thread will live on past October 11th for sure. I think the positivity of this cool story teeters on doing a short feature on the front page. I know it's not breakthrough, but a cool story about age grouper dreams in the sport.

New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ubdawg] [ In reply to ]
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Apologies everyone for the delay. I decided to finally jot down some thoughts about this whole experience...


There's something about the days following an Ironman, or any significant personal achievement for that matter, that is bittersweet. For the months prior to the event, life had a strange, narcissistic purpose. After all, I was training for an Ironman! During the peak training weeks, I was too tired to think about anything else. During the taper period, I had nothing else to think about. But now that it is over, and since my legs hurt too much to move around much, I have had plenty of time to struggle with this concept of purpose. What did the 10 months of my life mean? And perhaps more importantly, what's next?

Let's take for granted that people who do Ironman races regularly are well above what is "recommended" for maintaining physical fitness. So why do we do this? There's a definite thrill in accomplishment, in achievement, in chasing an ever-rising bar. But therein lies the problem: there is always a higher bar. I went into this experience thinking that I have got one shot to meet this target, hopefully grab it, and then sail into the sunset. Yet, I found myself today looking up swim coaches and tri clubs in the Seattle area (where I'm moving in July) and thinking, "well, if over the next few years I could cut 5' off the swim, 2' off transition, 15' off the bike, 10' off the run, I could come close to breaking 9..." before slapping myself in the face.

After all, we are age-groupers - by definition people who do this sport as a hobby, likely ranking tris behind other priorities like family, jobs, etc, and therefore always unable to reach our "true potential". So in that light, having a singular focus on chasing goals is almost an artificially handicapped construct. You can always make decisions that will enable you to train longer and harder, but there is also the rest of life that should matter, and probably more. A semi-pro climber friend of mine wrote that the only way to overcome the depression that kicks in after finally conquering a route is to embrace the journey and not just the destination. I like that. There will always be faster people, higher benchmarks, and I need to learn how to be satisfied, not just in the moment after a milestone, but in the 99% of time I'm not racing. Swimming workouts should be satisfying. Biking should be satisfying. Running should be satisfying. And of course, crushing races will always be satisfying. All this is true, but there was one moment, in the finisher's chute, after finding out the 3rd place finisher was passing on his slot, that I felt such a surge of emotion, of elation, of joy, that made the whole journey... just perfect.

After much delay, here's my initial write-up for IMTX (linking to blog to avoid what could be the world's longest ST post): http://www.xiao-wang.com/...an-texas-race-report

As an epilogue, there are definitely some people who deserve thanks in this thread. In alphabetacle order:
  • Amgray13: great race again and thanks for helping me actually enjoy Saturday night.
  • AngusW: thanks for sharing your own journey. I hope to one day sniff the swim gains you were able to achieve!
  • Bryancd: thanks for your engagement, skepticism, advice, and encouragement all made an impact on me. Thank you for sticking with me on this journey and you were right - despite my lofty ambitions, I couldn't quite beat your best B+R time :)
  • Colinlaughery: thanks for being a supporter since the beginning. Great meeting you in person and we'll definitely grab a few drinks in Hawaii!
  • Desert dude: thanks for chiming in with your wealth of experience and knowledge
  • EricM40-44: thanks for the training advice, overall newbie race guidance, and the Eminem gif (P.S. what happens when you age up - do you change your username?)
  • Fleck: thanks for both your advice and wisdom. Enjoying the journey turned into watching every episode of Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, and House of Cards while on the trainer all winter
  • GA_TRI_DAWG: truly honored that you'd offer to help with Kona but I'll have to decline - buy me a beer if you're in Hawaii and donate the other $20 to charity :)
  • Hayley0: I think green coffee beans sound delicious.
  • HKoldtimer: thanks for sticking with me along this journey and all of your detailed advice. Good luck with your own race later this year!
  • Irontri: you really put effort into giving out advice to total strangers. And we in the total stranger community should really put effort into thanking you.
  • MDD1997: for actually starting a prediction thread and for your advice, encouragement, and words of support
  • Motoguy128: Also one of those who's been participating since the beginning. Thanks for your words of advice!
  • Racing Yoda: great meeting you in person and for paying attention to me on your own KQ race day!
  • Snackchair: thanks for the detailed assessment/analysis of Lobsterman and advice on cleat position - calf didn't cramp at IMTX! (everything else did though...)
  • Sylvan: thanks for announcing that there were to be 3 slots, for taking the video, for being awesome in general
  • Thread revival team (dooley34, ontheuptick, Joe Public): thanks for being interested and caring about my progress - that really meant a lot to me.
  • Race-day cheer crew (sciguy, tjbingha, lakercr, noofus, blueraider_mike, JimMoss, Furious D, PeteDin206, badgertri, afbadbrad, Staz, BCtriguy1, dreaming~big, IMPBAZ, others too many to name): it's remarkably touching how y'all were engaged in watching the race of someone you've never met. Thank you for just being awesome.
  • All the post finish supporters (way too many to name): every one of your notes means a lot to me
  • All the women who questioned my masculinity due to allowing my wife to tell me what to do... where were all of you 10 years ago? :)

Last edited by: WX: May 22, 14 11:42
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I'm blaming my missed long run from that day on you... That being said, if you ever want to grab a ride when you reach Seattle I'm happy to take you around and show you some great routes. Also happy to provide info on any questions you have about the area since I grew up here. Feel free to ping me via PM.
In Reply To:
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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And of course, crushing races will always be satisfying.

And crush it you did. Looking forward to watching the journey to Hawaii.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I have never been so pleased to be so wrong. Well done my friend and aloha.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
But therein lies the problem: there is always a higher bar. I went into this experience thinking that I have got one shot to meet this target, hopefully grab it, and then sail into the sunset. Yet, I found myself today looking up swim coaches and tri clubs in the Seattle area (where I'm moving in July) and thinking, "well, if over the next few years I could cut 5' off the swim, 2' off transition, 15' off the bike, 10' off the run, I could come close to breaking 9..." before slapping myself in the face

if you think it's bad now, wait until you go to, race, and finish Kona. Some of us get stuck on that hamster wheel for life :)

Look me up when you get to the Seattle area. I'm available for either some coaching/guidance or some useful perspective on why training for an ever faster Kona each year is potentially a bad thing, although it seems like you've got your head screwed on properly already.

Good luck with Kona. Get plenty of down time before reloading on your training. Funny, I just got an email today for a pretty low price for non-stop ticket from SEATAC to Kona in October. Would have liked to buy it but I haven't qualified yet so I passed.

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
- Triathlon Optimized |Aerodynamic Bike Fitting | Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting | Triathlon Coaching
- Zipp, SRAM, Quarq, Profile, Vision, Shimano, BlueSeventy
- Cervelo, QR, Cannondale, Boardman, Litespeed, Ventum
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | UNC Tri Team Tuesday Night Track Workout
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX - I gotta say I was one of the doubters as well, namely because I've been at this for about 5 years with the dream of Kona for the past 2, and like others have said it takes some serious balls to make such a bold claim, but you did the work and backed it up! Amazing! I also KQ'd at IMTX in M35-39 for the first time (after 8 Ironmans - so yes, it can be done folks if you keep persevering) and it was so cool to see you up there on the podium and then at rolldown. Dreams come true to those who work hard - they did for you and they did for me, and my hat is off to you for doing your homework, putting together a plan, and then nailing that plan. Cant wait to race with you in Kona!

Team Every Man Jack
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
if you think it's bad now, wait until you go to, race, and finish Kona. Some of us get stuck on that hamster wheel for life :)

aint that true!

PS: WX - fantastic result! I knew you could do it! and I can tell you now for sure you are not done...

____________________________________

Race Reports | How to kill 4 hours on a trainer
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Gobux3] [ In reply to ]
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Gobux3 wrote:
Earlier someone posted the idea of creating a fundraising page to support XW. I'm guessing, but don't want to put words in his mouth, that XW would even more appreciate our collective support of his Robin Hood Endurance Team initiative. $5,190 raised to date is weak sauce for a Slowtwitch legend! Make it rain Twitcherati!

https://www.crowdrise.com/RobinHoodTeamEndurance/fundraiser/XiaoWang


$50.00 Donated. :-)


WX wrote:
GA_TRI_DAWG: truly honored that you'd offer to help with Kona but I'll have to decline - buy me a beer if you're in Hawaii and donate the other $20 to charity :)

I won't be in Kona unless I win the lottery (0 for 2 so far). I enjoy my slow/easy/MOP races and get to live vicariously through other's major accomplishments.

Remember to soak it all in and enjoy yourself out there.

Maybe the only useful advice this older, slower Ironman can give you..... Honor your wife by making a big dream of hers come true (after your done with Kona ;-). Balance is the most important part of making a marriage last. And always be humble with your wife. After all, you will always be a bad ass on slowtwitch from now on.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
After all, we are age-groupers - by definition people who do this sport as a hobby, likely ranking tris behind other priorities like family, jobs, etc, and therefore always unable to reach our "true potential". So in that light, having a singular focus on chasing goals is almost an artificially handicapped construct. You can always make decisions that will enable you to train longer and harder, but there is also the rest of life that should matter, and probably more.

Damn, in addition to putting his money where his mouth is athletically, he is humble in all this and sees the bigger picture. Hats off to you, sir. Talk about leading by example! I may just print that little nugget out for when the narcissism starts to grab too tightly. Awesome job! I'd like to reach your athletic level, but I think striving for your general attitude would be an even better accomplishment!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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agreif wrote:
WX wrote:
After all, we are age-groupers - by definition people who do this sport as a hobby, likely ranking tris behind other priorities like family, jobs, etc, and therefore always unable to reach our "true potential". So in that light, having a singular focus on chasing goals is almost an artificially handicapped construct. You can always make decisions that will enable you to train longer and harder, but there is also the rest of life that should matter, and probably more.


Damn, in addition to putting his money where his mouth is athletically, he is humble in all this and sees the bigger picture. Hats off to you, sir. Talk about leading by example! I may just print that little nugget out for when the narcissism starts to grab too tightly. Awesome job! I'd like to reach your athletic level, but I think striving for your general attitude would be an even better accomplishment!

Absolutely agree with this sentiment. Great job man..and a great frame of mind you have their.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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You are the asian overachiever my parents never had.

Well done!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I just re-found this thread after the long lay-off and I made the mistake of clicking on the last page so I got the spoiler. I went back and picked up where I'd left off and my heart was pounding through the updates even though I knew how it turned out.

This is indeed an epic thread - congratulations on a great effort and result.

twomarks
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Chucifer] [ In reply to ]
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Chucifer wrote:
You are the asian overachiever my parents never had.

Well done!

This is hilarious....
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Chucifer] [ In reply to ]
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Chucifer wrote:
You are the asian overachiever my parents never had.

Well done!

So you were a A- student or a B+ student eh?

When you won the spelling bee did your dad complain that it should have been a "spelling a"?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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Slow twitch celebrity.

Well done.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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agreif wrote:
WX wrote:
After all, we are age-groupers - by definition people who do this sport as a hobby, likely ranking tris behind other priorities like family, jobs, etc, and therefore always unable to reach our "true potential". So in that light, having a singular focus on chasing goals is almost an artificially handicapped construct. You can always make decisions that will enable you to train longer and harder, but there is also the rest of life that should matter, and probably more.


Damn, in addition to putting his money where his mouth is athletically, he is humble in all this and sees the bigger picture. Hats off to you, sir. Talk about leading by example! I may just print that little nugget out for when the narcissism starts to grab too tightly. Awesome job! I'd like to reach your athletic level, but I think striving for your general attitude would be an even better accomplishment!

Well said!

________________________

My Website || Twitter || Instagram
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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I've been following this from the get go and raced TX too. All I have to say is you have some serious wang. Congrats.



__________________________________________________
I wake up in the morning and piss excellence. --Ricky Bobby
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [JimMoss] [ In reply to ]
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JimMoss wrote:
Hands down, best thread on ST I've seen in the 9 years I've been on this forum. Best of luck to you in October - Kona is your victory lap!

Easy now bro... Best ever is T3 hands down.
But this is good. Definitely good!!!!


.

Kids need to be on their bikes ripping around, getting dirty, falling down, and getting up
~ Lance Armstrong
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Seabiscuit named his son Xiao Wang

Internet User
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [GA_TRI_DAWG] [ In reply to ]
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GA_TRI_DAWG wrote:
Honor your wife by making a big dream of hers come true (after you're done with Kona ;-).

+1
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Way to go. We're watching you.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Apologies everyone for the delay. I decided to finally jot down some thoughts about this whole experience...


There's something about the days following an Ironman, or any significant personal achievement for that matter, that is bittersweet. For the months prior to the event, life had a strange, narcissistic purpose. After all, I was training for an Ironman! During the peak training weeks, I was too tired to think about anything else. During the taper period, I had nothing else to think about. But now that it is over, and since my legs hurt too much to move around much, I have had plenty of time to struggle with this concept of purpose. What did the 10 months of my life mean? And perhaps more importantly, what's next?

Let's take for granted that people who do Ironm