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Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case?
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vitus979
Apr 25, 12 7:25
Post #51 of 201
(971 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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Knowing that he's half-latino doesn't put us in a time machine so that we can go back and un-piss off the black community.
Who's "we," and why is it our responsibility to un-piss off the black community?
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Duffy
Apr 25, 12 7:36
Post #52 of 201
(963 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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Many are still referring to him as white and this situation as "white on black" killing.
This isn't true.
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
nhunter344
Apr 25, 12 8:20
Post #53 of 201
(946 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
Many are still referring to him as white and this situation as "white on black" killing.
This isn't true.
As TashaTexas showed us, the truth doesnt matter for the most part in the communities that are up in arms about this. Its about perception.
TheForge
Apr 25, 12 8:23
Post #54 of 201
(940 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [nhunter344]
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Perception is reality, not truth.
BarryP
Apr 25, 12 8:36
Post #55 of 201
(929 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [vitus979]
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Quote:
Who's "we," and why is it our responsibility to un-piss off the black community?
Follow the circle of tangents here:
Chip claimed (if I remember correctly...forgive me for the paraphrase) that MSM is pushing an agenda, which is why this case gets news and black on black shootings don't.
I responded that that claim was wrong, and that it made news only after the black community pushed the issue and made a big stink out of it. Their reason for pushing the issue is that they were pissed off that a white guy got away with murdering a black guy, and there was very little in the way of investigation.
Duffy countered that the guy was not white.
My response was that his actual color is irrelevant in terms of what initially caused this to get media attention. What is important is what they thought at the time.
The time machine reference was to point out that since we know *now* that he's non-white, we can't change what the reasons were for this making MSM.
No one is obligated to un-piss off the black community. I'm simply stating that we can't simply revise the cause of the events because of knowledge that we later have.
On a side note, it may not have made a difference if it was originally common knowledge that he's half latino, half white. In fact, it probably varies from region to region (black - mexican relations in LA, black Puerto Rican relation in NYC, cubans in FL, etc.).
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
vitus979
Apr 25, 12 8:47
Post #56 of 201
(917 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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Thanks for the explanation.
Chip claimed (if I remember correctly...forgive me for the paraphrase) that MSM is pushing an agenda, which is why this case gets news and black on black shootings don't.
I responded that that claim was wrong, and that it made news only after the black community pushed the issue and made a big stink out of it. Their reason for pushing the issue is that they were pissed off that a white guy got away with murdering a black guy, and there was very little in the way of investigation.
It seems to me that Chip's claim is essentially correct, except that the agenda was initially pushed by the black media, and only later picked up by the MSM.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 9:28
Post #57 of 201
(895 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Eppur si muove]
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Eppur si muove wrote:
while in FL there was no arrest despite knowing who initiated the confrontation
Whoa... Do they now know who initiated the confrontation? I hadn't heard this latest. Do you at least have a link to it?
Also, I thought there had been been arrest, but maybe I saw that on Faux News... No really, I thought I saw it on CNN and MSNBC, but they're probably unreliable too...
Obviously, I'm going to have to find a more reliable news channel. :(
Yes, you are correct they have made an arrest..... now. I thought that it was clear in the context of my post that, IMO, the reason the FL case made headlines was because there was no immediate arrest and no subsequent arrest for weeks (months?) until just a week or so ago.
And I don't know how you'd like to characterize the confrontation, but when an armed guy is following somebody and gets out of his car (against police instruction) to pursue his subject of foot I would characterize it as he initiated the confrontation.
(This post was
edited
by Rufus T. on Apr 25, 12 9:35)
rick_pcfl
Apr 25, 12 9:38
Post #58 of 201
(890 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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And I don't know how you'd like to characterize the confrontation, but when an armed guy is following somebody and
gets out of his car (against police instruction)
to
pursue
his subject of foot I would characterize it as he initiated the confrontation.
here we go again...
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Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 9:40
Post #59 of 201
(888 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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See....now we get to the crux of the matter - one that NO ONE but Zimerman, a dead kid and maybe a few eye witnesses and a few cops know.
When did the gun come out? Seems to be that the gun more than probably was not out when the 911 call was made.
Seems to me the gun did not come out when an assault started - we know there was an assault.
So - either Zimmerman ALSO pistol whipped the kid, or the kid had the upper hand and THEN the gun came out....but, I sure as hell do not know and neither does any other person on this site or outside of the actual investigation and persecution.
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Rambler
Apr 25, 12 9:51
Post #60 of 201
(880 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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Does anyone else wonder if this whole thing didn't really happen at all? That it is all a media fiction to manipulate the population. "Zimmerman" and "Martin" and their respective camps are really actors who get together in a private, out of sight bar and laugh their asses off about the fuss they have created. Kind of like the "moon landing".
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 9:58
Post #61 of 201
(873 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rambler]
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I would believe anything at this point - "Wag the Dog" as it would be. I have little doubt that our President is giddy with joy that he could "lead" at a time of so much racial strife.
"New, every body calm down, I am part white and part black - I feel your pain"...
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
dave_w
Apr 25, 12 9:58
Post #62 of 201
(873 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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Rufus T. wrote:
They are two different situations and frankly I'm a little taken aback that you would fall for the straw man that r10c puts up as his shocking revelation that black on black crime is tolerated but one white guy kills a black kid and everyone gets worked into a rabid lather. And the difference is this in Chicago they made an arrest of the perpetrators while in FL there was no arrest despite knowing who initiated the confrontation due to the controversial stand you ground law. Nobody, as far as I know, has deemed the loss of the kid in FL as a more than important loss of life and frankly I think it's highly insulting that he would persons to think that about.
Also, regarding the NEW black panthers bounty this is a hate fringe group, no connection with the original group and its comprised of a few knuckleheads...anyone who gives them any consideration is stupid OR has an agenda, the agenda in this case is the image of menacing black men with billy clubs intimidating the law abiding white man.
In short, Sharpton here wants you to be afraid of blacks instead of focusing on the
fact that this Zimmerman guy against police instruction
instigating an altercation that left a kid dead, and the crappy legislation (that the police in FL didn't even want) that may let him walk away a free man.
That's my take on it anyway, you're mileage may, as they say, vary.
Your use of "knuckleheads" noted. Hope you're aware that the bolded assertion is factually incorrect.
BarryP
Apr 25, 12 10:02
Post #63 of 201
(869 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [vitus979]
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Quote:
It seems to me that Chip's claim is essentially correct, except that the agenda was initially pushed by the black media, and only later picked up by the MSM.
More or less I would agree with that.
The news media, in general, does have an agenda, but that agenda has more to do with reporting news (or spinning it) that will sell. People are interested in pretty white girls getting kidnapped, so the news will run that story and not one about ugly black girls. Likewise, they would normally not run a story about a black teen getting shot, but when this story got legs on the underground, they picked it up.
They didn't force it on the public. The public forced it on them.
The black panther threat? Eh.....yeah, i personally think there should be some consequences for that. Why isn't it big in the news? I can honeslty say that it's not as interesting to me as the Trayvon/Zimmerman story is to the bulk of black in America.
In short, I just can't get as enraged about this kind of thing as Chip does. For the Chips in there's Limbaugh, and if it gets big enough, there's Fox.
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
BarryP
Apr 25, 12 10:04
Post #64 of 201
(864 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Goosedog]
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That's hilarious.
Why is that hilarious? Are you drinking?
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 10:05
Post #65 of 201
(863 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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Enraged? Me? LOL :-) (-:
Muthafuckaplease!
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
dave_w
Apr 25, 12 10:18
Post #66 of 201
(854 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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Your mention of the NBC edited 911 call as inflammatory is correct, but don't forget ABC running the video of Zimmerman getting to the station with headlines of "no visible injuries!" for a week, before "clarifying" the video, and admitting that there were injuries, and finally CNN and the audio tape they reported of Z saying "coon" that they eventually corrected to "cold". I think it's mostly just natural biases that shape the first-blush media take on things, more than any conscious agenda or conspiracy.
Goosedog
Apr 25, 12 10:22
Post #67 of 201
(850 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [BarryP]
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BarryP wrote:
Quote:
That's hilarious.
Why is that hilarious? Are you drinking?
That would have made lunch more enjoyable.
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 10:25
Post #68 of 201
(844 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [dave_w]
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Wait...can you replay that quarter of a second of audio tape over and over again in rapid succession and see what we can devine? And while you are at it - can you please play this Ozzy Osborne LP backwards at 33.3rpm?
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 12:00
Post #69 of 201
(820 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [rick_pcfl]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
And I don't know how you'd like to characterize the confrontation, but when an armed guy is following somebody and
gets out of his car (against police instruction)
to
pursue
his subject of foot I would characterize it as he initiated the confrontation.
here we go again...
how do you think he got out of his car?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 12:12
Post #70 of 201
(813 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [dave_w]
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dave_w wrote:
Rufus T. wrote:
They are two different situations and frankly I'm a little taken aback that you would fall for the straw man that r10c puts up as his shocking revelation that black on black crime is tolerated but one white guy kills a black kid and everyone gets worked into a rabid lather. And the difference is this in Chicago they made an arrest of the perpetrators while in FL there was no arrest despite knowing who initiated the confrontation due to the controversial stand you ground law. Nobody, as far as I know, has deemed the loss of the kid in FL as a more than important loss of life and frankly I think it's highly insulting that he would persons to think that about.
Also, regarding the NEW black panthers bounty this is a hate fringe group, no connection with the original group and its comprised of a few knuckleheads...anyone who gives them any consideration is stupid OR has an agenda, the agenda in this case is the image of menacing black men with billy clubs intimidating the law abiding white man.
In short, Sharpton here wants you to be afraid of blacks instead of focusing on the
fact that this Zimmerman guy against police instruction
instigating an altercation that left a kid dead, and the crappy legislation (that the police in FL didn't even want) that may let him walk away a free man.
That's my take on it anyway, you're mileage may, as they say, vary.
Your use of "knuckleheads" noted. Hope you're aware that the bolded assertion is factually incorrect.
I stand by my use of the term and would call any fringe group, black, white or pink with purple polka dots that for offering a bounty on anyone, that's just me. Feel free to characterize it any way you'd like.
911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher: OK, we don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]
the long and short of it is this thing never happens if not for the direct actions of Zimmerman, he and he alone set forth this chain of events, and that's a fact
burnman
Apr 25, 12 12:26
Post #71 of 201
(803 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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"
911 dispatcher
" and "
police
" are not interchangeable terms.
-------------------------------------------------------
rick_pcfl
Apr 25, 12 12:33
Post #72 of 201
(796 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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the long and short of it is this thing never happens if not for the direct actions of Zimmerman, he and he alone set forth this chain of events, and that's a fact
Come to think of it, if his parents had never had sex, this wouldn't have happened - and thats a fact.
There are a number of variables that could have resulted in a different outcome. To blame it on him is absurd given the evidence that supports the allegation that Martin initiated the assault and elevated it to a level which warranted the use of deadly force from Zimmerman. But don't let that fact get in your way.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 12:38
Post #73 of 201
(794 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [burnman]
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burnman wrote:
"
911 dispatcher
" and "
police
" are not interchangeable terms.
I stand corrected, I guess that when the 911 dispatcher said "we do not need you to do that" the "we" referred to the collective of 911 dispatchers and not the police
Record10Carbon
Apr 25, 12 12:39
Post #74 of 201
(793 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [Rufus T.]
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A neighbor of mine....well, if mr Trevon was in my neighborhood with Skittles and a Tea, wearing what he was wearing, doing anything but looking forward as if with a purposeful place to go....yep, he would have been out there (armed) asking what the kid was doing (and often does).
Only this guy is a deadly serious big game hunter (he has killed most things with a pulse)...and IF Trevon did (IF) throw a punch, he would be just as dead - despite that fact that my neighbor is a part of our local trauma team (M.D., F.C.C.P., F.I.C.S., C.P.E and on and on and on)
This animal got on the wrong side of him once....
Point being, I as a citizen have the right to ask anyone anywhere at any time "what are you doing" and not presume that a physical altercation was going to happen. It does occur frequently in my neighborhood - due mostly to our proximity to a type of people I do not want to stereotype cause that is mean. This really could have happened to anyone in any neighborhood in the country. Thankfully for Zimmerman he can fall back on "Stand your ground" IF he is not the one to initiate physical contact.
----------------------------------------------------------
What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Rufus T.
Apr 25, 12 12:59
Post #75 of 201
(785 views)
Re: Ugly fallout from Martin/Zimmerman case? [R10C]
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R10C wrote:
A neighbor of mine....well, if mr Trevon was in my neighborhood with Skittles and a Tea, wearing what he was wearing, doing anything but looking forward as if with a purposeful place to go....yep, he would have been out there (armed) asking what the kid was doing (and often does).
Only this guy is a deadly serious big game hunter (he has killed most things with a pulse)...and IF Trevon did (IF) throw a punch, he would be just as dead - despite that fact that my neighbor is a part of our local trauma team (M.D., F.C.C.P., F.I.C.S., C.P.E and on and on and on)
This animal got on the wrong side of him once....
Point being, I as a citizen have the right to ask anyone anywhere at any time "what are you doing" and not presume that a physical altercation was going to happen. It does occur frequently in my neighborhood - due mostly to our proximity to a type of people I do not want to stereotype cause that is mean. This really could have happened to anyone in any neighborhood in the country. Thankfully for Zimmerman he can fall back on "Stand your ground" IF he is not the one to initiate physical contact.
I don't think you even have a grasp of the basic issue here the bad legislation that is SYG
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself,
unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
So it seems quit possible to me in reading the above that Zimmerman could have initiated the physical altercation, reasonably thought that his life was in danger...killed the kid and could still walk under SYG and by walk I mean no arrest, no nothin.
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