Half and Full to soon?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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Half and Full to soon?

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Stindiana

Apr 10, 12 2:49

Post #1 of 54 (2282 views)

Half and Full to soon?	Quote \| Reply

All:

I know we on ST love to rehash so here goes:

Why the rush for all the newbies to do their first 1/2 in year one and a Full in year two? It is crazy! This a sport with a heavy learning curve but once you learn yourself and what it takes it can be something to be proud of and use for the rest of your life.

We are seeing many that can hardly S/B/R a sprint or Oly plunking down $750 for a Full late this summer and already trying to riding 100 miles on Sunday. What? They already have that mid-season burn-out look and attitude.

Great. So your an Ironman after your second season and never do another triathlon again. Checked that off the bucket list!

Do they let people drive an Indy car at speeds over 150mph on the track if you give them $200k? Let's do that next!
STIndiana
ToughMan Indiana Half:6.1.13
Triton Brewing Indiana Triathlon Series
ToughKids Muncie 7.14.13
http://www.americamultisport.com

Ultra-tri-guy

Apr 10, 12 2:57

Post #2 of 54 (2274 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Have you not been paying attention,some of us have been saying variations of this for years,hell every third post by Fleck says exactly that....

Ironman jumped the shark a whle ago and the "one and done" crowd will soon outnumber the repeat Iron-geeks before too long.The industry,no doubt,is just loving it but it is one thing that is pushed me off the Iron-bandwagon.

-----

Stindiana

Apr 10, 12 3:13

Post #3 of 54 (2264 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Ultra-tri-guy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yep. Read ST daily since inception. Decided not many people were listening. Us Vets need to return to the clubs and build some relationships with these newbies. Nobody with 1/2 a brain thinks it is 112 and then a marathon; it is 112.26.2 people.

Is it Ironman when your plan is to walk the whole 26.2? Is riding your bike to the start of a long hike Ironman? Really?
STIndiana
ToughMan Indiana Half:6.1.13
Triton Brewing Indiana Triathlon Series
ToughKids Muncie 7.14.13
http://www.americamultisport.com

Ultra-tri-guy

Apr 10, 12 3:28

Post #4 of 54 (2253 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You just grabbed my hammer and hit the nail on the head....Return to the clubs!!!

I really miss the days when newbies came along to tri clubs and learnt all there was to learn about tri-stuff.Since the incredible tri-coaching boom so many clubs have either dwindled down to almost nothing or have gone to the wall completely.It seems people would rather be "coached" by someone that they don't know than become part of a community group and develop there.I have personally seen two tri clubs go under once a coaching company moved in and I know of others both here in Oz and in Nth America.

Like the punters in the weight loss and fitness industry,people now want a quick fix to get where they want and bypass many of the sensible routes that should be taken to get there.

...and don't get me started on the massive amount of money newbies spend on getting into the sport because they think they need all the gear and gadjets to go along with their overpriced bikes and unnecessary ntutritional supplements.

...

Stindiana

Apr 10, 12 3:58

Post #5 of 54 (2241 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Ultra-tri-guy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Agreed. What ever happended to doing a host of sprints and Oly's in a season with all your mates with a 1/2 near the end of the middle season or at the end. I learned more from them on the ride home after a few beers than during the race itself. Sad.

However, we learned a ton along the way and each season made improvements that translated into a better 1/2 each season!

We once had 53 go to the same sprint race in a caravan. The old Shelbyville Tri series was the best.
STIndiana
ToughMan Indiana Half:6.1.13
Triton Brewing Indiana Triathlon Series
ToughKids Muncie 7.14.13
http://www.americamultisport.com

Cervelo Apple

Apr 10, 12 4:39

Post #6 of 54 (2217 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think alot of it has to do with the proliferation of runners into triathlon. Many people starting triathlons use to run marathons and I guess they got bored with that so they figure let me just jump into the pool for a few months and buy a bike...they already have the marathon leg down good.

Meanwhile, many natural swimmers and bikers who are starting triathlon tend to stay away from full Ironmans because the marathon is just too long of a distance at first blush...so many go up to half ironman's for a while. At this time, I doubt I will ever do an Ironman because I have no interest in running more than 13-14 miles at one time.

(This post was edited by Cervelo Apple on Apr 10, 12 4:43)

Tri-Banter

Apr 10, 12 5:16

Post #7 of 54 (2183 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think part of the issue is the culture of the media and how they celebrate the longer distances in any sport. Rarely to runners get coverage of the local 5k. However, the marathon gets coverage, articles, athlete trackers on the web, web video, etc. Look towards the hype at Boston. It makes people want to do the race.

The same goes for tri. You won't find any media mention or coverage of the local sprint or oly. Yet, (in theory) you can get live updates in text, audio, and sometimes video of a HIM or IM. These are the races that the non-lifers see and, therefore, want to do.

As a point of reference, go to the ST home page. All of the articles are about ITU racing, which the average bloke has no access to, or about longer distance (H/IM distance, Xterra, Leadman) athletes. Why would you not want to do one of those distances under those circumstances?

____________________________________
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JT_Dennen

Apr 10, 12 5:18

Post #8 of 54 (2181 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You don't have to run more then 13 miles at one time, just walk the rest!

Gurudriver10

Apr 10, 12 5:50

Post #9 of 54 (2137 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Ultra-tri-guy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

I started our club here for this very reason back between '04-'07. I wanted a team atmosphere with all the free information flow yet with a beer-drinking club mentality. We were also very good about reaching out to women in all groups. But over time, the "fast" guys took over and turned it into an elitist thing. The race series suffered because the f.o.p. board was too busy training to promote the races. The workouts were all hammer-fests. The only social time was the warm-up and no one drank beer anymore. The cool vibe is now gone.

I've noticed, too, the folks in clubs now in their 20s and 30s are a different generation. They just want to achieve and move on to the next mountain. They miss out on a lot.

hankscorpio

Apr 10, 12 5:56

Post #10 of 54 (2126 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

How old is everyone in thread?

You all are talking about the "good old days" of triathlon in the same way my dad complains that it's too easy to watch movies (netflix, hulu, etc.) and that the good old days were when you went to the movie store and browsed for a movie, got popcorn, and made a night of it.

And then others seem to have a problem with the "one-[Ironman]-and-done crowd," as if there's some problem with doing something, not enjoying it, and then not doing it again. Haha, why would someone continue to pour money and time into something they don't enjoy?

I think it's hilarious. I imagine you all on your Packard Bell desktop computers shaking Old Tyme Smeckler's Powder onto your sore legs and complaining about the fact that time marches on and how things were better in the old days!

Mexpedip

Apr 10, 12 6:01

Post #11 of 54 (2110 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Wow this is sad. Because someone has decided to do triathlons they have to use your method? Or is this more about "newbie's" not giving you the proper respect? I think, gentleman, it's time to grow up. Simply stated, I couldn't give a crap what you have been doing for the last ten years nor should anyone else. If you want to share your incomparable experience then do so but don't expect anyone to set up a shrine to your greatness.

You cite tri groups as what should be used, since when is triathlon a group sport and why do I need to learn the ropes before going after my goals? How is using a tri group filled with a bunch of wannabe experts a better idea then hiring a coach. That's like saying it's better to have your neighbor do your bike fit instead of someone who is F.I.S.T. certified.

Why do you care so much about others methods of getting into the sport when it has absolutely no bearing on anything other than possibly not stroking your fragile ego? Why are you worried about how someone finishes (walking or slowly jogging) a HIM/full IM? How does their race have any affect on your life?

Try this one for once, stop acting like egotistical brats and encourage people to get into tri regardless of their long term goals. Unfortunately not everyone's goals are the same. The one and done crowd has just as much right to participate as the regulars.

Ok, truthfully now, how many of you checked my post count and thought "he has no right to say anything. He hasn't been a member long enough and definitely does not have enough posts, jerk"?

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming, 'WOO HOO, what a ride!' author unknown

(This post was edited by Mexpedip on Apr 10, 12 6:03)

Cervelo Apple

Apr 10, 12 6:11

Post #12 of 54 (2089 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [hankscorpio] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

good ole days of triathlon = 2007-2008ish?

Ultra-tri-guy

Apr 10, 12 6:27

Post #13 of 54 (2071 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Mexpedip] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Clearly you don't have a fucking clue what we are talking about.....I for one don't care if people are "one and done" folks and don't care if people hire coaches that they don't really need...What we are talking about is being part of a community of like minded triathletes who through the club system not only learn about the sport and have people to train with but are able to pass a bunch of knowledge on to the juniors as well.This is the way the club system works,it is more than just about racing.For you that might not work but it seems every time we talk about it we get slammed by people who have never been a part of it.It is no different here in Oz than the Surf Lifesaving Clubs who do exactly the same thing with their athletes.They raise generations of surf athletes the way Aussie tri clubs raise generations of triathletes...

And as far as tri clubs having wannabe coaches well how about these guys who came out of the biggest tri club in Oz..The Cronulla tri club boasts Greg Welch,Michellie Jones,Craig Alexander,Macca,Peter Robertson,the famous Southey family...My old tri club in Cairns had Brad Beven(19 time ITU Champion) as our fastest member...The Penticton Tri Club has acces to Tom Evans,Kevin Cutjar,Jeff Symonds,Jonathan Caron helping with lectures and advice, the president is the Ironman Canada Race Director and the great man Steve King gives all kinds of lecture on sports pshycology...I could go on and on about the amazing talent available to newbies by joining a tri club but I'm sure it isn't worth my time..

www.cronullatriclub.com.au

www.clubcroc.net.au

www.pentictontriathlonclub.com

I for one, am not looking back at time gone by so much, as to wishing more people would join a tri club so more triathletes can experience the kind of community spirit that clubs like these have RIGHT NOW!!

==

(This post was edited by Ultra-tri-guy on Apr 10, 12 7:07)

Travis R

Apr 10, 12 6:30

Post #14 of 54 (2057 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Being relatively new to triathlon (this is my fourth season), I might be able to throw in some "n00b" perspective.

I think a lot of it has to do with the public perception of "tri-ath-a-lon". I know people who have heard of Ironman from the media and say "it sounds really cool" but have no idea what a sprint triathlon is, let alone what order the events occur in (there are 3 right?). My father-in-law will ask me how my last Ironman went, and I've never done a full yet. Some time, maybe I should ask him how his Monday "Master's" went, since he's a regular golfer. The Ironman brand has managed to transcend triathlon to the point where the brand is bigger than the sport. To the uninformed (not saying they're stupid, just not informed), "Ironman" and "Triathlon" are virtually synonymous. It's really weird, as I am not aware of any other sport that has quite this situation - do kids play NFL or NBA? About the only thing I can think of is that I've heard people refer to racing as "NASCAR".

So, I see this as kind of a weird perception disconnect that shapes people's expectations. Depending on how someone is exposed to the idea of participating in this sport, their bucket list doesn't specify "I want to do a triathlon" as that's not nearly as cool-sounding as "I want to be an Ironman". When the guys came up with the Ironman name, they hit the nail on the head as far as marketing terms go. I think people have become overly infatuated with the "bucket list" concept. I don't know if it was the Jack Nicholson/Morgan Freeman movie that did it or what. "Do an Ironman" sounds more bucket listy than "do a triathlon", I guess.

I'm a little bit different case, as the guy who got me interested in it has never done anything beyond a sprint tri, and he got me excited about that concept as my bucket list item. I stayed pretty focused on just finishing that first, and once I did, I started to realize what I could potentially do and set goals on that. I honestly don't understand how somebody could do a full triathlon in their first or second year of doing it. Granted, I started out a lot fatter than a lot of folks do, and I also have to deal with Lupus, which can be a challenge to understand, but I just can't imagine that I could do the one half that I have done so far with at least gaining the experience of working up the ladder. I did 4 sprints before my first Oly. My first half was my 12th triathlon. My first full will be my 18th or 19th event, and I've thrown in some half and full marathons in there to add experience, too. I'm pretty sure I've modified my hydration and nutrition setups for every single race. lol!

So, I guess the best thing we can do is provide a way to welcome new folks into the fold, help them set reasonable expectations and make them knowledgeable about the different distances and that it is more than just "Ironman." Hopefully, they'll develop life-long habits. Some will come, some will go. I do wonder about the long-term viability for the guys (like you) that are in the industry. I imagine with the current hype around Lance, there will be a short term increased demand for events, but once he inevitably retires from being a pro triathlete (maybe 3-4 years from now? Who knows?) will we be back down to the "good old days" where the big events don't sell out, and it returns to being a niche sport? I think there is that possibility - our society is so damn fickle, and tends to ride every trend into the ground until the next one comes along, or people get injured, or burned out, or whatever... But, if 10% of the bandwagon actually stays on, is that better than nothing?
_______________________________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet." - Socrates

realAlbertan

Apr 10, 12 6:36

Post #15 of 54 (2043 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Maybe a tougher swim cut off will encourage people to develop in the sport for a couple of years...
___________________________________________
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hankscorpio

Apr 10, 12 6:43

Post #16 of 54 (2028 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Sounds more like the 1970s the way you all are talking about it.

Travis R

Apr 10, 12 6:47

Post #17 of 54 (2016 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Mexpedip] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I don't want to jump into a war of words, but I would hope that you give STIndiana a little bit more credit. Words don't always come across well in a forum like this, but I think he means well. I happen to know him in real life, and he was kind enough to take time out of his week to get together with me for a swim lesson based on a post I had here bitching about my newbie swim skills. I gotta say that was one of the most inspiring gestures anybody has done for me, and I am very grateful!

STIndiana gives a crap about this sport and I haven't met too many people that have been more welcoming than him. I think he wants to see us newbies to enjoy a new lifelong hobby or however it is best described, and not be one-and-done because of burnout - I wouldn't look at this conversation as a chance to pick on or look down on anybody, as much as a conversation about how people perceive this endeavor and how we can improve that perception. :)
_______________________________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet." - Socrates

Ultra-tri-guy

Apr 10, 12 6:49

Post #18 of 54 (2004 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Travis R] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Travis R wrote:

----

Well said..

---

realAlbertan

Apr 10, 12 6:56

Post #19 of 54 (1997 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [hankscorpio] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

35 & in the sport since 1988. My problem is the attitude I get from one and done folks who try to tell me that I am not a real triathlete since I have never done a 140.6. They love to give me advice which I humour them on since the vast number of these are 45-60+ minutes behind me in an oly. Friendly and well meaning but distance snobs none the less.
___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M - 1500 metre Freestyle

brentybrent18

Apr 10, 12 7:31

Post #20 of 54 (1961 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I�m a super noob to tri�s. Did my first one last April of 2011 which was a sprint. Followed up with another spring 2 weeks later. Did a HIM in June of 2011 followed by a full distance 140.6 in September. It was awesome. In my full my nutrition crashed to the ground and I was put down to a run/walk. I had a blast and can�t wait for IMFL this year. Right now I�m battling a fun hamstring injury. Too much too soon? You bet! But it was awesome. There is no way to learn the nutritional and physical aspects of a 140.6 until you do one. I don�t care what anybody says. You can practice your nutrition all you want, but when you are on mile 15 of the run after swimming 2.4 and biking 112 you are in new land that you can�t possibly train for. You simply can�t train to that distance and know how your body is going to react. Practicing nutrition on a 100 mile bike ride is cute. It has nothing to do with running 26.2 miles afterwards. Taking what you learn from a HIM and putting it to use on a full distance is like putting what you learn from a 5K to the use of a marathon. The only way to learn is to go out and do it and get as many pointers from anybody possible. For the noob�s like me, if you want to do the race and you know your body can do it, then do it. If the pi$$es off the older guys, then so be it. Let them laugh at me as they run by me. My generation is the future of your sport. Make fun all you want.

Quel

Apr 10, 12 7:34

Post #21 of 54 (1958 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Cervelo Apple] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Cervelo Apple wrote:

Honestly, I'd say the same thing for running and marathons as people are saying for tris and ironmans. Way too many people jump in to running with marathon on their mind.

I've been running off and on since I was about 10 years old. Newer runners always seem surprised that I've never even run a half marathon, never mind a marathon. There's tons of ways to have fun and improve without stepping up to a longer distance, and I don't think enough new athletes appreciate that. I think over time they either develop that appreciation or they burn out and quit.

teebles

Apr 10, 12 7:57

Post #22 of 54 (1924 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm a first time Ironman athlete this year (Lake Placid). I'm also lost over 100lbs guy. Yes racing an ironman is a bucket list item for me. I did say race not complete. While I willin no way be in contention for any award, I have every intenetion of leaving everything I have on that course. I don't know if I'm one and done at this distance or not. I'll tell you in 103 days or so. My wife and I hope to start a family soon so the time just might not be there. Additionally I have mixed feelings about the distance. Maybe I need a large bowl of HTFU, or maybe I'm just not suited for, who knows. I'm writing this while tapering for Boston so I'm especially cranky :) I do know that weather I ever do an iron distance again. I have no intention of stoping triathlons anytime soon. I've been caught hook line and sinker.

As for the club aspect. I'm lucky in that my local club is pushing 300 members, and is a great resource for me. We have 27 members racing in Placid, and at least another 30 or so going up to volunteer, sign up for next year, cheer, and drink most of the beer. Like any gorup of this size there are people in it that I try to avoid, and there are cliques for sure. But I know that anytime I want a training partner, a simple post on the club forum and I usually have half a dozen ready to go. I guess I assumed it was like that with most areas. I'm sad its not. I know how motivating it is on those days I just don't feel like dragging my lazy self out to train, that there are other members meeting me or expecting me. While I shouldn't need someone to old me accountable, on the days I'm being fat, and lazy it's nice to have.

I don't really have a point just that I agree with the op. It's a very interesting time we are in. I haven't been part of a more open and accepting sport. I played D1 hockey and if I had asked any of my opponents what kind of skates they were wearing and why, I'd get a pissed off look, a four letter response, and probably run over later in the game with a little extra at the end just for my trouble. It's all relative, and can always be better/worse. That's all the ramblings I've got. Time to go fret over the weather for Boston. What are they saying now? Snow?

tridana

Apr 10, 12 8:29

Post #23 of 54 (1894 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks for posting your thoughts - I think it is good to rehash this often - mostly because the community changes and I think it is an educational discussion.

I also get frustrated at those who only want to do a triathlon in order to do an iron distance race. I even know a girl who put the 70.3 sticker on her car before she even raced the distance (she almost didn't finish!) I get frustrated because, while I completed my first 140.6 race last year (not in a fast time), I am way more proud of almost breaking an hour in a sprint and trying to go under 2:10 for an olympic distance. I can suffer with the best all day, but it is WAY more painful to go all out for 2 hours.

The other reason this frustrates me is because of the attitude on the course. My first few races, people were so welcoming and helpful. I love that atmosphere - asking questions, calming the newer athletes, talking through the course, offering wisdom. I loved racing, but the community is what hooked me. In my 140.6 race I was having some physical and mechanical issues - so after a good swim the bike was not going well. Then at mile 100, I saw another racer near tears and frustrated trying to change a tire. She is not new to racing or her bike, she was just overwhelmed. I stopped - changed the tire - and we both finished. And I would do it again. While many racers were supportive - others heckled...but you know what? If you are hurt, throwing up, crash, need air, I will stop - because in the end the community we build for ourselves is important. I have stopped when I was top 10 at a 70.3. I have had people stop for me when I was the leader and blew a tire.

Sorry - that might have been a bit off topic, but I think many of the newer athlete's need to realize you can choose to define yourself by where you finish, or the person you are as you compete. In the end, I want to look back at my race and be proud of how I did and who I was on course.

Race hard, be safe, HAVE FUN!
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Cervelo Apple

Apr 10, 12 8:33

Post #24 of 54 (1884 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Quel] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Quel wrote:

Cervelo Apple wrote:

I think a lot of that has to do with people realizing getting speed is hard, so they instead just look to increase distance. I see it now with Ironmans. These people are pretty slow in sprints and olympics yet they are training for Ironmans. Why? Because they know they aren't fast so they figure, let them at least do something that is attainable and sounds more interesting than doing the nearby sprint triathlon.

ether

Apr 10, 12 8:38

Post #25 of 54 (1874 views)

Re: Half and Full to soon? [Stindiana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think how you proceed depends on what you're trying to get out of it. I'm very competitive, so I'm sticking to sprints and a few olys my first few years, because I want to get very good before I proceed to the next level. Some just want to "do one", which I suppose is fine too.

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