How much do components matter?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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How much do components matter?

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PapaBear

Apr 6, 12 10:50

Post #1 of 26 (2595 views)

How much do components matter?	Quote \| Reply

I'm tinkering with the idea of getting a frame and building up a TT bike. I'm looking at components (groupsets) of all levels and wondering how much a difference for normally flat triathlons how much a difference compenents would do. From Sora to DuraAce. Entry level to advanced. is the only real difference weight and feel? - anyone have any experience of upgrading and seeing significant time improvements?

Happy Easter

jackmott

Apr 6, 12 10:52

Post #2 of 26 (2582 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

flat?

0 point 0

the only difference is weight and feel, and with TT shifters, there isn't much difference in feel either.

I would go with 105 if money is a concern, spend the money on good tires, tubes, wheels, instead.

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hankscorpio

Apr 6, 12 10:56

Post #3 of 26 (2573 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Zero.

But I would recommend 105 over anything like Sora at least because 105 is really the lowest-end "serious" level of components.

I personally go with Ultegra because they're identical to DA except a little heavier and sturdier.

Jiowa

Apr 6, 12 11:02

Post #4 of 26 (2562 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My road bike is newer with 2009 ultegra components and my tribike has 2003 105 components so not the extreme you're looking for. Anyway, I did throw on a 10 speed chain, 10 speed cassette, switched the shifter to friction to give myself 10 speeds on 9 speed rear derailleur. As long as you keep the parts clean the difference between sora and dura ace on flat course is probably immeasurable in terms of time. It will probably feel different.

Running is a gift.

jeremyb

Apr 6, 12 11:36

Post #5 of 26 (2475 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

get used 105 or even Shimano 600 ---- predecessor to Ultegra off of eBay for the best bang for buck.

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bnation

Apr 6, 12 11:48

Post #6 of 26 (2440 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I run SRAM Apex on my tri-bike. I like it enough that I'm not going to upgrade any of the components unless they break. SRAM Apex is roughly the same price\performance as 105 on the shimano side, and I think the shifters feel better.

Jiowa

Apr 6, 12 12:16

Post #7 of 26 (2366 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [bnation] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Pretty sure the SRAM Apex can take a 32 teeth for the rear derailleur. That's pretty useful if you like high cadence.

Running is a gift.

realAlbertan

Apr 6, 12 12:24

Post #8 of 26 (2336 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Building a TT bike... sram rival with 900TT shifters...
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edapp

Apr 6, 12 12:30

Post #9 of 26 (2314 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yea no kidding I have shimano 600 stuff on my commuter and it runs just as smoothly as the new 105 or rival I have used. All of it is going to work well if set up properly.

IamRobot

Apr 6, 12 12:33

Post #10 of 26 (2304 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jeremyb wrote:

get used 105 or even Shimano 600 ---- predecessor to Ultegra off of eBay for the best bang for buck.

I would watch out for 5600 105 for the double left brifter - apparently there were issues with these. I had mine fail on my second ride on the bike and the guy at my local shop said they had a number of warranty issues.

That being said, I really like the rest of the groupset. Once the replacement came in, I've never had a problem since.

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9kfever

Apr 6, 12 12:40

Post #11 of 26 (2283 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [IamRobot] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I love my SRAM rival. Dont really see a need of upgrading. Might upgrade the cassette, but that's it.

realAlbertan

Apr 6, 12 12:43

Post #12 of 26 (2274 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [Jiowa] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You should be able to index on that rd. Its the cable pull ratio that matters and shimano 9&10 are the same. The indexing of the shufter is naed to te cog spacing on the matching cassette (9 vs 10)
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BMANX

Apr 6, 12 12:51

Post #13 of 26 (2254 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Sram Apex with Sram TT500 Levers and Shifters. All that you would ever need for an inexpensive build and you would not be sacrificing a thing.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

PapaBear

Apr 6, 12 14:09

Post #14 of 26 (2153 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Okay - how about this - same (flat) situation. Which bike would be better/faster. Carbon Fiber Chinese Mould (dengfu FM018) or aluminum cervelo dual.

tigermilk

Apr 6, 12 14:24

Post #15 of 26 (2119 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jackmott wrote:

Disagree with 0.0. Where components matter is quality/lifetime. Lower end parts are lower end because of weight and build quality. My philosophy:

Cranks - skimp on these
Shifters - buy the best you can, though for a tri bike if you have the option for friction levers who cares
Front derailleur - skimp to care a little because frankly, I hardly ever use the small ring
Rear derailleur - the best you can afford
Brakes - skimp to care a little; all I care is that they do in fact stop me and don't get stuck in the closed position

jeremyb

Apr 6, 12 14:25

Post #16 of 26 (2116 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

PapaBear wrote:

Okay - how about this - same (flat) situation. Which bike would be better/faster. Carbon Fiber Chinese Mould (dengfu FM018) or aluminum cervelo dual.

no one in the world has undeniable proof behind their opinion on that one, no one.

Search chinese carbon for huge threads debating it though

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PapaBear

Apr 6, 12 14:29

Post #17 of 26 (2107 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

But they do have opinions.

PapaBear wrote:

Okay - how about this - same (flat) situation. Which bike would be better/faster. Carbon Fiber Chinese Mould (dengfu FM018) or aluminum cervelo dual.

no one in the world has undeniable proof behind their opinion on that one, no one.

Search chinese carbon for huge threads debating it though

jeremyb

Apr 6, 12 14:30

Post #18 of 26 (2105 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

yes, which is why I suggested you do a search --- those opinions have been made over and over and over again

PapaBear wrote:

But they do have opinions.

PapaBear wrote:

Okay - how about this - same (flat) situation. Which bike would be better/faster. Carbon Fiber Chinese Mould (dengfu FM018) or aluminum cervelo dual.

no one in the world has undeniable proof behind their opinion on that one, no one.

Search chinese carbon for huge threads debating it though

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

jeremyb

Apr 6, 12 14:32

Post #19 of 26 (2100 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3866738

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3865498

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3861771

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3750261

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3693416

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

PapaBear

Apr 6, 12 17:01

Post #20 of 26 (2013 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

yes, which is why I suggested you do a search --- those opinions have been made over and over and over again

I'm familiar with the other posts, and I do appreciate you consolidating them for later reference - but most of them compare like terms - name-brand carbon vs. chinese.......... I'm asking about old-school tried and true aluminum vs. chinese carbon.

-BrandonMarshTX

Apr 6, 12 18:30

Post #21 of 26 (1932 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have a blog mulling around in my head about this. I will generally mirror a lot of what folks have said. Having ridden most groupsets (SRAM road/tri and DI2 excluded) from the new Record 11s TT/Tri to all of the Shimano groupsets, I think for mechanical shifting...

- Brakes don't really matter. I mean they do, but for 'most' tri courses even a relatively inexpensive brake will work. And, if you find they don't work that well, invest in new pads. Even some of the higher $$ brakes do not work as well.
-Brake Levers. Campy are awesome, because of where they put the quick release and how it works. Having said that, pick what you like and what seems to be aero. Return springs are nice, and I think most groupsets have them now.
- Shifters, for Shimano it's only DA bar ends, so that is your choice. For Campy, I suspect that the new carbon AND new aluminum ones are identical except for the levers. I bet the internals are exactly the same, so it's a draw. The return to zero as Campy calls it is really nice.
- Front D. Doesn't matter.
- Rear D. The pulleys and springs will be different. Spend for a higher end one as by the time you upgrade the pulleys you are likely about even on the expense. I have never (yet) had a spring wear out.
- Chain. Unless they are super $$, the top of the line chains are usually pretty nice and maybe worth the slightly added expense.
- Cassettes. I go with the 2nd in line. They are usually more durable as they have fewer titanium cogs.
- Cranks. Campy wins here hands down. I was shocked at how smoothly they spun. But, we have also had good luck with the Shimano, and it takes a little bit of adjusting of the crank bolt to make it spin pretty well. My experience with ceramic bearings has been mixed...they are smooth, they are $$, and sometimes they last in a crank and sometimes they haven't.

So, if you didn't mind a frankenbike and didn't want a crank based powermeter and were ok with mechanical shifting...of the main parts I would go with...
-Campy crank and bb
- Shimano DA chain, rear D, shifters, and Chain

I say 10s because with the 11s my experience was that the clearance was very very close on the P3 rear dropout, and when I used it with my HED Jet disc, the back of the cogs bound up on the JET cover. I am pretty sure that I could have made it work, but it was just a bit less finicky to use older and more reliable Shimano parts to use the race wheels that I wanted to use. Lastly, even though Campy is making a push into tri...the cable heads are slightly different than the generic ones so finding campy cables that will work in a pinch can be a challenge at a race in BFE. Wow, that was long.

Benito

Apr 9, 12 4:24

Post #22 of 26 (1712 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I've had bikes with Sora (5 y/o), 105 and Shimano 600 from about 10 years ago and now 1 y/o 105 10sp. All 'road', not TT set-up sorry.

Sora brifters really felt cheap and nasty compared to all others.

Got to say the Shimano 600 was pretty nice at the time, but the 105 that is only 1 year old is just great. Sure I'd love to be running SRAM Red or DuraAce, but the current generation of 105 is a really nice groupset for the money. Got mine second hand from a mate for $200, wrenched it myself, and the difference from 6 y/o Sora to this is very noticeable, but no doubt more so in 'feel' than actual performance on the flat.

I'm running a slightly lesser crank set and 3rd party breaks. I ride hills plenty so brakes are very important to me, but as long as the calipers and levers are reasonable, it's 90% about pads and tuning.

Not much talk here about BBs which I think is interesting.

I agree with all above, and suggest changing BB, Chain and sprocket every 12 months would be a really nice touch for any / all of these groupsets to ensure efficiency. Cleanliness, lubrication and tuning are even more important, and any spare dollars you have should go into the best wheels and tyres you can manage.

Have fun building your bike!

jackmott

Apr 9, 12 4:36

Post #23 of 26 (1695 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [Benito] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Benito wrote:

Not much talk here about BBs which I think is interesting.

I've yet to see it specifically measured, but much like hubs on wheels, *supposedly* whether a crank or wheel spins effortlessly without any load on it, has no bearing (a pun!) on how much resistance occurs once their *is* load on it.

so while turning the cranks by hand, you may feel that some are much easier to spin than others, once you have your body weight on them, the way the bearings and grease/oil displace results in very tiny differences.

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tarabh

Apr 9, 12 5:54

Post #24 of 26 (1612 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Components make very little difference. They might be the difference of saving a couple of watts over an IM course but with limited resources I think money could be put to better use to increase your speed.

Eg Get into the wind tunnel - 100 watt saving

versus

New fancy frame 10 watt saving for the same price.
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rcmioga

Apr 9, 12 7:00

Post #25 of 26 (1522 views)

Re: How much do components matter? [PapaBear] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'll take a contrary position. I love my Campy Super Record 11 drive chain. The RTZ shifters are fantastic. The feel and precision of the drive train makes me smile every day. I don't know if I'm faster with this grupo (I suspect I am) and I actually don't know if I'm happier than I would be with something else but I can tell you I love it. LOVE it!

This is a new drive train on my TT bike. I have 6 year old Campy Records on my road bike--I have about 40,000 miles on it and they are still as smooth as butter. New chain each year and a new cogset. One rebuild of one of the shifters....all good. Love moving 3-5 gears at a time when I need too--very hilly where I ride...

I know I'm lucky I can afford this. I spend my money on my sports passions--I drive a crappy truck and where sweatpants and race shirts....
And I'm happy every time I ride

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com)

Someday I won't be able to do this, but today is not that day!

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