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Marathon training

genkigirl1

Aug 26, 11 6:40

Post #1 of 34 (4440 views)

Marathon training	Quote \| Reply

Not a distance runner by any means (three months ago the idea of me doing 10K was laughable) but would like to attempt one in Feb next year - and a half in Nov. I have looked around online at a few training programs but thought I would ask here since this place has been amazing with tips and training help for tris! So, anyone know of any sites with a good training program you could recommend?

Thanks!

Greengoblin

Aug 26, 11 9:48

Post #2 of 34 (4415 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Hi there. This is my first post but I really have had good luck w the Hal higdon programs- they're free and online.
Good luck

JenSw

Aug 26, 11 14:05

Post #3 of 34 (4379 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I was also going to suggest Higdon. Also take a look at Runners World. They have training plans for all distances.
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Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

genkigirl1

Aug 26, 11 17:24

Post #4 of 34 (4345 views)

Re: Marathon training [JenHS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks! Those are the ones I was looking at so glad I asked!!

JenSw

Aug 26, 11 21:45

Post #5 of 34 (4311 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Key is to listen to your body and not be a slave to a plan. See how it responds to the training and adjust accordingly.
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Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Mr + Mrs C.C.

Aug 27, 11 1:34

Post #6 of 34 (4295 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Hi there. Just recently I downloaded a free app for my IPod that writes programs for you. It is Runners World. You have to fill in all the necessary information, then it will generate a program for you. I think it is from the Runners World website. :)

genkigirl1

Aug 27, 11 2:20

Post #7 of 34 (4293 views)

Re: Marathon training [Mr + Mrs C.C.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Will check that out!!! Rather blind about the whole thing, not in an area where there is a runner's group so of anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears!!

npda

Aug 27, 11 12:08

Post #8 of 34 (4257 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It's a great idea to follow a plan, but my only suggestion is to not become a slave to that plan. There's a fine line between being tired and just not motivated to go out and do your runs, and being tired enough that it's more beneficial to stay home and take an ice bath. Any sign of an injury or major fatigue= it's okay to drop the run for that day, or modify the plan a bit.

Also, I believe it's not necessary to do a full 26.2 distance before you do it on race day, but every first timer I know (including myself, whoops) has ignored that advice and do it anyway. :)

DawnT

Aug 27, 11 15:19

Post #9 of 34 (4242 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

If you couldn't run a 10k three months ago, why do you want to jump so quickly to a marathon? Why not do a 1/2 marathon next spring and then train for a full next fall. That will give you a full year to ramp up to the distance.

genkigirl1

Aug 27, 11 18:04

Post #10 of 34 (4225 views)

Re: Marathon training [DawnT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have signed up for a half this fall. Next year is planned as "get up the duff year"so I sort of feel that if I don't get off my butt and do it now, I never will. I figure if I start the training now, I should be okay with it as I have been active in various sports since I was a kid - just not a long distance runner if I wasn't chasing a ball!

Npda, thanks for the advice - I am like you and will probably do a full one before just to make sure I can - I don't really understand why training programs never take you to the full distance in running but for things like swimming, they have you over it all the time - and in some cases, double the distance!! Same for biking!

(This post was edited by genkigirl1 on Aug 27, 11 18:07)

DawnT

Aug 27, 11 18:15

Post #11 of 34 (4220 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You are completely under-estimating the amount of time required to ramp up to running the marathon distance. You are setting yourself up for injury. Please reconsider.

genkigirl1

Aug 27, 11 18:26

Post #12 of 34 (4218 views)

Re: Marathon training [DawnT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

DawnT wrote:

You are completely under-estimating the amount of time required to ramp up to running the marathon distance. You are setting yourself up for injury. Please reconsider.

If you don't mind me asking, why would you suggest that? If I follow any of the programs I've looked into, it seems to build up slowly. I run about 7-8k about 5 times a week right now. Is it too much of a stress to start training and compete in Feb? I am clueless about these things, which is why I posted on here. Certainly want to avoid injuries but, perhaps incorrectly, thought that six months was a good time to start training.

ETA - just realized my first oly tri (10k run) was three months ago so I guess that should be "Six months ago the idea of doing 10k..."

(This post was edited by genkigirl1 on Aug 27, 11 18:28)

JenSw

Aug 27, 11 19:21

Post #13 of 34 (4208 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Marathons are hard on the body. It takes a while to recover, even if the muscles don't hurt anymore you still aren't recovered. Running is really hard on your body at that distance. If you do one in training you lose quality training time while you recover from it. Riding and swimming are MUCH easier on the body so overdistance isn't as big a deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

jewels_nyc

Aug 28, 11 16:02

Post #14 of 34 (4171 views)

Re: Marathon training [JenHS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I would recommend just grabbing any of the running magazines from the local library or a friend, I am sure there are plenty of people out there that would be more than willing to help you out. I have been running for 8 years and started my first race with a marathon. Got accepted to the NYC marathon in June 2004 and completed it in Nov 2004. It was rough, but I completed it. Also, check out your local running stores, actually this might be easier, there are plenty of local running training groups at most running stores these days that can help out tremendously. Hope this helps, more than will to help out... I been there before and would love to give you any advise I can.
I have since completed the past 7 years NYC Marathons and plenty of other races. Only in the last 3 years have I stepped over to triathlons and done all distances except the ironman distance and that one will be completed for me next year in IMNYC/NJ
Good Luck

DawnT

Aug 28, 11 16:26

Post #15 of 34 (4166 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It takes a long time to build up the endurance to run 26.2 miles. You aren't even running that far over an entire week right now and you want to be able to run that full distance in 6 months?? That's just crazy if you ask me. Run another 10km this fall and set a goal time to run it faster than you did before. Pick a half marathon to run next spring and dedicate yourself to building up to that distance properly. Once you've successfully run a half, then find a full that you want to train for. I would suggest next fall at the earliest. Also, there's lots of great info on training for this distance. Read everything you can about training, recovery and nutrition. It will really help you prepare properly.

genkigirl1

Aug 28, 11 16:56

Post #16 of 34 (4161 views)

Re: Marathon training [jewels_nyc] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Congrats Jewel and good luck!! Will look into a running shop here and see what they have in terms of groups. Just rather far from my house - not exactly in a city! Was thinking I might check out the university teams in the area.

Thanks for the advice Dawn. Rethinking based on your comments and advice. The last thing I want to do is injury myself. I will do the half I signed up for this fall and see how that goes. I already entered for full and if I feel my body isn't able to do it, I will try and defer it for a year (though if things go to plans, no way will I be able to do it then) and if |I can't, so be it.

Been reading a lot since I started with the tris - and did a lot for lifting. Sadly not as many nice gels, bars, shakes and whatnot like you guys have - am in Japan and they really don't have that many options! Very jealous of the flavours and options you all have!

Bellytri

Aug 29, 11 5:54

Post #17 of 34 (4129 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Good luck with the training! A few things to remember that you may already know. In running there's a 10% rule of thumb/guideline. Increase your distance by more than 10% per week, and you increase your chances for injury greatly. (You should look it up - don't take my word for it.) If conducting the training means you don't do that, excellent! If it means you have to increase too much too soon, then push things off a bit.

Marathoning is tough on the body - but everyone's different. Watch out for common injuries after about 16 miles - my IT bands began bugging me after that far, but were fine before. Don't push through the pain just to finish a race. That was my problem - I had a goal and I wanted to complete it. Three years later and I still have nagging IT band injuries. That's because of my stupidity. Don't be like me! :)

Marathoning is also largely mental. Don't neglect your brain while you're working on your body. Just like you would for an ironman, prepare yourself mentally for the distance. You do NOT need to run 26.2 before you run 26.2 on race day to do that. And you shouldn't. In fact, running that far basically ensures that your body will still be recovering when you run the marathon if you follow your training plan. Usually the taper begins after a final long run of 20 miles or so three weeks before the marathon. I've always assumed that's because of another rule of thumb: you need one day of recovery for each mile of a marathon. (Recognizing that you run between the last long run and the marathon, you still don't do a "long run" that taxes your legs in the same way. It's a different animal.) So if you run 26.2 as your last long run before the marathon, you're doing that on legs that still need rest. Don't take my word for it - ask around and you'll hear the same advice. And check out the training plans from the Brooks running team - they don't even run 20 in training anymore, if memory serves. Unless you have the body and stamina of a world-class marathoner, running that volume is just going to beat you up more than it's worth.

My two cents! Good luck!! Have a great time, and remember - if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. Change something.
belly

jewels_nyc

Aug 29, 11 7:40

Post #18 of 34 (4111 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Here is something that might help you out, I got it part of my email today.
http://www.runnersworld.com/...g-_-TrainingGuidePDF
Good Luck

Tri3

Aug 29, 11 10:37

Post #19 of 34 (4090 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think you can get to a marathon in the time frame you're looking at, but you will have to be realistic about your time goal. (A rule of thumb that works for me is to double my half marathon time and add ten minutes.) The important thing is to get to the start line healthy and injury-free, and to finish with a smile on your face. BarryP's 3-2-1 run plan, which emphasizes frequency and low-intensity has worked really well for me. Search for it on the main forum.

genkigirl1

Aug 29, 11 16:53

Post #20 of 34 (4044 views)

Re: Marathon training [jewels_nyc] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks for the link - that is the plan I plan on using. Using the South African runner's world half first - also metric!

Thanks for all the advice and support on this. Slow and steady and we'll see how it goes! Enjoying the training so far but wish it would cool down!!

ericincda

Aug 31, 11 16:51

Post #21 of 34 (3958 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

google "marathon dominator - Ben Greenfield".

genkigirl1

Sep 1, 11 5:48

Post #22 of 34 (3927 views)

Re: Marathon training [ericincda] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thank you!!!

Honestly between the PMs and the replies on here, so happy I found ST to help me out with training! Thank you!

genkigirl1

Nov 27, 11 3:49

Post #23 of 34 (3229 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just wanted to bump this to say thank you for the advice - I didn't end up getting in for the marathon so am going to do a half. The runs are going well, using the runner's world half in under two hours to train. Going well.

Just a quick question - my distance runs are at 15k and I am not in any pain at all, able to run the next day... Any thoughts on me signing up for two halfs that are a week apart? Feeling good after all my runs, time is getting better...

AndyPants

Nov 27, 11 8:58

Post #24 of 34 (3198 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Good idea, once you do a half, and they can be pretty hard on you, you will have a small idea of going the full distance. I write "small" because the first half is always a heck of a lot easier than the second... they call mile 20 "the Wall" for a reason ;-).

Re: 1 half's a week apart, well, what are you trying to achieve with these races? If you want long training runs that give shirts and medals out, then sure, go for it, sometimes it's fun just to be part of it all.... But if you are expecting to "race" either of those events, you may end up (1) disappointed that you were "average" in both or (2) happy that you kicked butt in event #1 and super slow + sore in event #2 and dramatically increased your chances of injury or illness. I personally love racing, so when I start an event, I race it (even if I am only racing myself/the clock). I do not expect to be running the next day after a 1/2, so for me, doing two 1/2s that close to each other just doesn't make sense. Back to back races, the max I would consider is 10k or OD racing; or a 5k/half (Sprint/1/2IM) combo. In 09 I did a sprint 2 weeks before IMC, and it was the best decision - kept me fresh, got me moving at a higher pace than usual. I'd consider the same approach for road racing, shorter/faster then longer/slower...

Good luck on your racing, whatever you decide! Let us know how it goes!

AP
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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

tigerchik

Nov 28, 11 1:15

Post #25 of 34 (3139 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

In Reply To:

Just a quick question - my distance runs are at 15k and I am not in any pain at all, able to run the next day..

That's great, but beware that racing is sometimes a different story. You're going faster :-)

I'm in the "sure" camp if the goal is just to have fun doing them. If you do 2 halves a week apart, keep the week between them really, really light. Your goal for that week has to be recover + get ready to race again.

_________________________________________
Proud member of FISHTWITCH: beating you to T1 for over a decade
PM for blog accesshttp://www.tigerchik2.wordpress.com"]

genkigirl1

Nov 28, 11 4:39

Post #26 of 34 (1449 views)

Re: Marathon training [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The first would be a training run, the second would be the "race". I figure if I am going to be running the distance, I might as well see how fast people are going - and how slow I am compared to them!

Marathongrl6

Nov 29, 11 18:09

Post #27 of 34 (1408 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I think it depends on your recoverability. I ran 2 marathons in two weeks. And I was actually faster in my 2nd. I wasn't racing the second one either- just did it for fun. My coach says because I am a symmetrical runner- I rarely get injured. I only ran 1- 5 mile run between the 2. so- I think it's possible, it just depends on you.
Good luck!
I'm here to race- myself and you.

EnduraGrl

Dec 15, 11 18:44

Post #28 of 34 (1338 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You can totally do a marathon in 6 months! I did my first using the Hal Higdon plan and I trained for it in the 20 weeks he gives, sticking to the plan. The next year I did 4 marathons and PR'd at 3:30. I was 37--not a youngin' and I've never been injured.
If you train for each long run like it's your marathon it will help you prepare and NOT hit the wall. Marathon is 75% mental on that day. Join Hal's forum and that will help too. You can do it!

tri_a_lot

Dec 16, 11 8:35

Post #29 of 34 (1315 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Running is kind of a slippery slope, because it is easy to get injured if you push yourself too far too fast. I didn't follow a plan when I ran my first half marathon. Mostly because all the free plans out their are more for the experienced runner than the inexperienced runner. It is best to have at least 3 year of competitive running before attempting a half marathon. And then I would say it should take about 4 - 6 months to build up to running 50K a week, with at least one long run of 16K. I will admit that I worked up to a 20K run and ran 50K a week for four months before running my first half marathon. I had a bit of a difficult recovery but it seemed ok after a couple of months. Another thing is that I don't recommend running a marathon if you are over 20% BF. It is difficult to run that far carrying a lot of extra body weight. If you are over that, I would stick to 5Ks and 10Ks, it is just easier on the body.

genkigirl1

Dec 16, 11 15:25

Post #30 of 34 (1297 views)

Re: Marathon training [tri_a_lot] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Have been training for my half, no problems so far, body is good - never been a 'runner" but have done numerous sports so think my body is handling is well. I am amazed how how fast my body recovers with compression tights - can head for a long run (16k), wear them, shower, put on a new pair for the day, sleep in them and have zero muscle pain the next day - best piece of advice I've learned was to were compression tights to bed!

Interesting to see all the advice that varies so much! Have to say, the running for three years and less than 20% body fat rather shocked me. I'm about 22% and now way in heck could I get down to 20 - unless I gave up my weekly beer which I wouldn't do! ;)

tri_a_lot

Dec 17, 11 6:08

Post #31 of 34 (1281 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Well I ran my first half marathon when I was 15% BF. I tried doing a marathon before at over 20% and I found it too difficult. It really depends on your body composition. For example if you are really muscular, losing the body fat is a good way to drop weight and just make it easier to run, far and fast. Some elite marathon runners race at below 10% BF which is really unhealthy for a women. 22% is just fine, if you can do it at that. Its better to have a higher BF than a low one, from a "healthy" perspective.

genkigirl1

Dec 17, 11 16:19

Post #32 of 34 (1253 views)

Re: Marathon training [tri_a_lot] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Don't get me wrong, I would love to drop the extra fat - on my legs and butt for the most part - but I don't think it will happen. I also don't have a long distance runners body - very muscular all over and have quads and calves that make some men cry. I've had a few comments from distance runners that I'll have a hard time as my legs will be heavy. I don't train my legs at the gym but... with the running, they tend to gain muscle - and lose a tiny but of fat but not enough to change my percentage all that much.

Thanks for the advice. Thinking about giving up alcohol in the NY so perhaps that will help!

Tri3

Dec 18, 11 4:57

Post #33 of 34 (1237 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Giving up alcohol will make a huge difference! All empty calories, and most people tend to snack more when drinking. When I want to drop some weight, it's the first type of calories that I cut.

genkigirl1

Feb 25, 12 23:25

Post #34 of 34 (921 views)

Re: Marathon training [genkigirl1] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just wanted to say thank you for all the advice. I decided to do a half and finished my first today. Not a "fast" time (2:02) but considering this time last year I was in physio for my ankles and unable to run 1k, am pretty happy. Have to say, mentally, it kicked my butt. I nearly gave up at the 18k mark (and to be honest, the 16k mark too!) but managed to finish it out. Swore and cursed I would never do another one again during the race but now that I am done... ;) I want a better time.

Thanks for all the help!