Geez you're not doing yourself any favors. It's like when slowman calls women "sweetie" or whatever misogynistic term he feels like and then defends it. It comes across as tone deaf.

Dunno what it's like in SoCal, but around here, women call men "sweetie" or "honey" all the time. At least, that's what I get called.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

There has been no attempt or intentional disrespect towards anyone. Lighten-up.

As for the attempt to 'G-Market'...really. We are in Indiana. Population not many. In the tied for '49th' most unfit state in the nation.

There are a handful of professional race companies in Indiana and there are a handful of NOT. Races we wouldn't considering sending our kids/staff/friends to race with.

You'll see what we mean soon.

BTW; we have 12 RD's that have reached out to us from this thread in 100% agreement on the intention of the thread; buyer beware. My tongue in cheek method might not have landed right but the message needs to be the same. Don't send your mates to race with just the newest/lowest price 1st or 2nd or 3rd.... year organization without some investigation.

In 1999 there we something like 14 major 1/2 in America..today how many?

How many on this thread have produced 70.3 miles of course for 1,000?

You could take out the word RACE and insert CAR...wouldn't we all do the same on any purchase of goods or services?

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STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

It doesn't matter if anyone commenting on this thread has ever produced a race. You continue to talk down to people and show your disrespect. Bit of a douche it seems.

You're really not making this any better.

How is it that you think the best response having clearly irritated a lot of people you surely want to keep on side is to say the following:


Instead of apologising for the offense caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), you tell us to lighten up!
Amazing - to my mind that's yet another sign of disrespect in the very same line that you claim there has been none!
If you wrote anything similar to the following, I'd have no problem:

But you seem incapable or unwilling to stop being confrontational.

Then you continue on with more anecdotes about other people telling you you're right, etc. and asking us if we've organised any races.
This cannot help your argument. As I read it, your audience does not find you credible or likeable that's your problem and you're not addressing it.

Incidentally, I challenged you to honestly answer my question regarding the Coca-Cola analogy in my earlier post. You haven't yet. Are you willing to do so?

I feel like this is the key message the OP was trying to get across. There was no other message contained in the OP other than contempt for independent race organizers and later posts showed contempt for all racers.

What has the population or economic condition of Indiana got to do with whether or not you would conduct a guerrilla marketing campaign? You put on races. You want people to sign up. Why wouldn’t you market your product to a captive triathlon audience here? Indeed, if your state has so few people in it, all the more reason for you to want to advertise more broadly.

Problem is, you’re going about it in a terrible way. How about starting with buying a paid-for advert to support Dan’s site, instead of your weak efforts to pump up your product while throwing your competition under the bus? Ignorant and classless.

Really, there are probably only a handful of triathlon production companies in any state; and anyone who frequents ST is probably familiar with most of them on their home turf. It doesn't take too long to know who is good, who is average, and who sucks rocks, but that doesn't mean we have to avoid those other races; it simply means we adjust our race goals accordingly. I.e., if Mr Shitty RD has a race that fits my schedule I won't hesitate to do it as a 'C' effort, while saving my "A" races for the best productions - which typically have the most competition.

Or go 1 better and say "I won't even bother with a "C" race that is run by Mr shitty RD and instead save a few hundred dollars, just train at home that day instead and take my S.O./family out to a nice dinner to thank them for putting up with my tri obsession"....

Just a thought.

As someone mentioned, there are now THOUSANDS of races out there, and not all are created equal. No sense in supporting those that don't value athlete's opinions and feedback unless it's positive, or worse yet, look down on athletes as "not knowing what makes a good race" or whatever nonsense that was.

I would not spend $100s on a C race, but they at least create an environment plus timed OWS that has some value...I'm thinking specifically of a RD in South Florida. There is another RD in central Florida who puts on "B" level races with minor flaws every year - and well worth the money for the controlled course despite some flaws and hit or miss quality. Training alone doesn't give the same vibe. I do a lot more than dinner to ensure the wife continues to support my tri habit.

1. BS
2. Me

Fair enough, I would however add that around here (san diego), poorly produced races typically don't have controlled courses, or other benefits that well produced races do, nearly everyone spends more than just the entry fee when racing, even if it's only on transportation, and I wish we had more races with entry fees that were less than $100, but even most sprints these days seem up there with a few notable exceptions.

And good on ya for taking great care of the support team!

I don't doubt you had overall good intentions with your original post but I might suggest in the future:
1) In your position of heading up an organization, I would consider running any "public" announcement or communication by other members of your team to get feedback regarding how the message might come across....this obviously appeared to be somewhat self-serving as opposed to the disguised "public service announcement" because of the position you occupy), and 2), carefully consider the audience you are targeting.....i.e., this forum is not "beginner triathlete"

A better place for your "psa" would have been your organization's Facebook page and/or website....not a forum for mostly experienced triathletes.
Hope you have a successful 2016 event season.

GMAN, Thanks for your kind words......I hope you make it up our way some time.

As to this post here is my take. I will preface my comments to tell you I have spoken to Steve a number of times in the past few weeks and months and he is a very nice fellow who cares about the athlete and the sport. I have not spoken to Steve since he posted this latest comment but I THINK I know what he is trying to say. I can also tell you I have also spoken to a number of other RD's in the U.S. and Canada over the past year in the hopes of trying to see how we can communicate our hope that athletes will research a race before signing up for ANY and all races.

This is Slowtwitch so those who frequent the forum know there are routinely numerous posts both praising and slamming individual races. The one common thread, and one I have chimed in on several occasions, is what appears to be a decreasing lack of support for independent races, even though those races and organizations receive rave reviews. In part it appears the decline in support of the independents is due to athletes assuming that a BIG BRAND race will automatically be better produced as compared to the independent race that is nearby and close to the same date. I think what Steve is trying to say is, please consider the independent race as an option and do the research. You might actually find that it is as good as or even better than the BIG BRAND event.

That's my $1.50....which is about $1.00 US.

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John Salt, Founder - MultiSport Canada
Canada's Largest Triathlon Series and Barrelman Niagara Falls
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"

The best service providers solicit customers input and take it seriously. You're a service provider and you claim to be one of the best, yet you're not only ignoring potential customers but also telling them they're not qualified to comment!


This is correct. In business, they SAY the customer/client is always right.

However, having spent a lifetime in sales, I can't tell you how many times, from small business dealings to large and significant ones, I've walked away from interactions with prospects/customers/clients, and said in my head, they are factually wrong!

Of course the frustrating thing is you can only do so much, to convince them otherwise. If they don't get it, they don't get it! Best thing to do is just walk away. They need to come around to their own conclusions on things. It's perhaps one of the hardest things to do in business/life - but ounce you have made your play, showed your absolute best, helped them solve there challenge and meet their goals, if they are still not convinced, there is not much you can do.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The one common thread, and one I have chimed in on several occasions, is what appears to be a decreasing lack of support for independent races, even though those races and organizations receive rave reviews. In part it appears the decline in support of the independents is due to athletes assuming that a BIG BRAND race will automatically be better produced as compared to the independent race that is nearby and close to the same date. I think what Steve is trying to say is, please consider the independent race as an option and do the research. You might actually find that it is as good as or even better than the BIG BRAND event.

Sometimes a great customer/consumer experience requires a bit of a leap of faith.

The BEST burrito I have ever had, was at this place in an industrial area of San Francisco, that if, a number of people had not raved about it, and I was encouraged to go and seek it out, I would have passed it by completely. I don't even think I could find the place now, if I went looking for it!

It was not really a restaurant. It was a sliding window that opened to a dumpy street with trucks and cars rumbling by. You lined up, placed your order, then waited for your name to be called. Everyone stood around, or sat on the curb, eating these amazing burritos.

Chipotle or this place?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

It sounds like you are on the side of STIndiana that customers need to be told what's right instead of listened to. Confused by your comment here when you agree with a quote and then post something contradictory to that quote.

If that was the OP intention, he feel way short of the mark. He made no attempt to suggest how someone could research races, what to look for in a quality race, etc. he just threatened people to avoid the newbie director or else. He claims business is great for his company but most here would draw the conclusion that there is a shakeup in his local area and he is trying to drive business away from a new player.

PS...a decreasing lack of support is actually an increase in support ;-)

Confused by your comment here when you agree with a quote and then post something contradictory to that quote.

I was merely commenting on the confusion and contradiction, generally, between sellers and buyers, when the buyer is "right", but they are also wrong at the same time!

But as the seller, you can never tell the buyer that. You just have to say, "I understand. Best wishes"!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Steve - I have a friend who owns a "hot dog" stand in Brooksville, Florida. His place is on a busy Highway and next to many franchise fast food places. His "Hot Dog" stand is ALWAYS packed with people who choose his place over these franchises.

I asked him how he does it - how does he compete with Arby's, Wendy's, Burger King and KFC? He was very quick to respond - We have to be MUCH better at quality, value and service! The ONLY way to draw people to my place is by my reputation!

I think the same thing applies to triathlon - Put on a quality event that is a great value and offers athletes a wonderful experience and you will be successful! Z

Ok, so it's just out of context in this thread. This seller is not only saying the buyer is wrong, he isn't listening to them since they aren't also sellers.

Tom:

Totally agree. Quality and Safety are #1

And now we open the real issue. Professional operational standards for our sport.

Please take us all to the section on field inspection allowing organizers to continue producing a multi-sport event? Oh, that's right. That was voted down in the mid-90's. We are a 40+ year old sport and we have nearly zero real, hard requirements to entry. Please show us all the NFL's owners licence agreement which might be confused with a US Congressional bill in size. Massive. Detailed. Options for dismissal/revocation.

That Hot Dog stand has to pass a health inspection annually. And at random intervals. They and their staff have to pass a Serve Safe test. Smart customers watch how they handle money vs. food. If that owners has serious issues or even a death; you can bet there is a huge investigation.

We are not considering the events that are still around after 5-10-15 years +. NGO's and the customers have spoken and they have survived the American business climate post 2008. We are talking about the 1-2-3 year old events that have jumped into what seems to be a exciting way to make a buck. It can be and many are just fine. But some are NOT. Some are even lead by non-athletes who have never even been in OW.


And while you might not like how this is stated and all the chatter; please understand we have looked ten's of thousands of athletes and families in the eye and told them we will do everything in our power to give you one of the best days of your life. Nearly 100% of my family and friends are triathletes; wife and 3 of 4 children. We don't take this lightly. We live it. When our son says he wants to race a triathlon; we start asking a ton of questions. If you are in the restaurant business and go out to eat with your family; do you go just anywhere?

There needs to be standards.

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STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

What was the motivation for this thread? Who are you going up against that you feel needs to be knocked down? Why do you feel that racers would go with an unsafe, unprofessional race organizer instead of your event? If you do all the things you claim, there should be no issue with people knowing your events reputation.

Reading from all accounts, you are a good fellow. Which was my presumption from the start. You and your race series appear to be under a serious amount of competitive pressure. If you want to champion higher standards for races and RDs - if you think that will help you competitively - go for it.

This is why I believe you're getting blow back here:

You're targeting your message to the wrong people. The folks responding here, seasoned triathletes who regularly participate on ST, are of course hyper-informed. Do you think any of us are going to race in some shoddy, fly-by-night, crapola race? I can guarantee you, almost zero percent reading here will. I would only race in races that are up to snuff. "Big brands" or Independents (I've raced WTC to Norseman). By the way, I couldn't care less if a race was run by an athlete. I only care if a race is well run.

So... my potential race universe (races I would would consider entering) has few issues with safety (perceived and/or real), etc.

I would hazzard that experienced triathletes have a very good handle on which races are good and "safe" and which ones aren't. Plus, I would also say that you aren't going to get athletes to champion race safety. We're the customers. It's our expectation that safety will be provided. Raising race standards isn't up to us. We just vote with our wallet.

My questions to you if you care to share: What are you trying to achieve with all of this? And who are you really trying to reach with your message? It's really not clear.

Dan

Thanks.

We are just beginning to appeal to the wider audience of veteran triathletes/duathete/+ that care where we are head in the near term. We have serious problems and need serious professionals. Relying on the Olympics every 4 years to boost our profile should not be one of a few options.

As for competitiveness; we had a great 2015 and 2016 is off to a better start than last year. No worries here. It is the friends racing all over with concerns.

Peace

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STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com