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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [jenniferpelota] [ In reply to ]
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jenniferpelota wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Seriously? Once can be called an honest mistake. Twice is suspicious. Three times? Is that any different to cutting the course is or doping?


I think it's different, and given all of the AGers who see is as a "strategy" worth more than the penalties, I'd say most of the tri world feels that way, too. I'd love to see longer penalty times for drafting offences.

Better idea would be to make the drafters run more. Additional 1 KM for each drafting call.
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Forget GoPros. Refs should carry tasers. If you keep running after you are DQed, you get dropped.
...and you'll probably shit yourself.
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Better idea would be to make the drafters run more. Additional 1 KM for each drafting call.

Lol! That's harsher than a DQ!

https://www.strava.com/athletes/10327392
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [heartpatient] [ In reply to ]
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heartpatient wrote:
Raelert wrote on his Facebook page that he wasn't aware of any punishable offence. He wrote he was accompanied by a referee on a motor bike for the whole 90 km.
It's not the first time that pro athletes seem to be baffled by drafting penalties (see also Schildknecht at IM Texas); my perception might be biased (or not) to notice such things happening mainly to European athletes in the US.
Without suggesting anything sinister, I'm wondering what is required in order to be a referee at such a race. How much experience do you need to have before you're riding with the lead group of the pros? How much experience does the head referee have, who briefs all the refs before the race? And please don't answer anyone "the rules are the rules", as judging the gap between two riders is not an easy task. Between "that's clearly less than 10m" and "that's clearly 10m+", there's also "that's probably <10m" and "this may be <10m", and this grey area can be very significant. Don't think of drafting offences as being binary.
I'm not saying Raelert should or should not have been DQ'd, but I'd be really curious to see some video footage of the punishable offence(s). I think it would be a good idea for referees to have helmet cameras.

The refs are well trained and do a very good job IMO in US.


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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Better idea would be to make the drafters run more. Additional 1 KM for each drafting call.

As far as I remember, they did just that in Challenge Roth this year.
They made a point about doing it somewhere far out from start/finish/transition though - in order for it not to become a public shaming.

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [IanH] [ In reply to ]
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Michi just apologized publicly on Facebook to officials, Taylor Reid, and the RD.
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [flogazo] [ In reply to ]
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"As far as I remember, they did just that in Challenge Roth this year.
They made a point about doing it somewhere far out from start/finish/transition though - in order for it not to become a public shaming. "
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you are right - that is what they did and they called it the K of shame. They also had 80, yes 80, draft marshals on motos....basically 1 per k on the 2 looped course - they were EVERYWHERE! They also worked proactively to prevent drafting b/f a call was made. I had not seen that before and thought it worked well.

David
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
"As far as I remember, they did just that in Challenge Roth this year.
They made a point about doing it somewhere far out from start/finish/transition though - in order for it not to become a public shaming. "
-----------------
you are right - that is what they did and they called it the K of shame. They also had 80, yes 80, draft marshals on motos....basically 1 per k on the 2 looped course - they were EVERYWHERE! They also worked proactively to prevent drafting b/f a call was made. I had not seen that before and thought it worked well.

I have to admit I like this process of trying to be proactive and get things to stop before you ruin someones day. Jimmy gets the kudos for driving this process for WTC.

But it all starts with the number of draft marshals on the course. But, if the RD would design a course which was not draft encouraging, and either not have as many racers, different kind of swim starts, etc.
any of these would help minimize the drafting some of these races have. Since so many I do are either in the hills, or do not have thousand of folks, I see very little drafting. Not zero, but nothing like
some of the races talked about on ST. I just would not to do them. Why, would be a waste of effort worrying about getting a call and having to justify it on ST. :)

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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [prattzc] [ In reply to ]
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Shame it took so long..
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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Eh, not bad for a German.
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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I could over hear the radios where I was helping out on race day. They said right away not the winner because he is DQ'd. He was carded for drafting, multiple times, he did not stop at penalty tent. He wanted to contest it so officials requested paperwork to do so, but after the head official reviewed things and I assume talk with official out on course, head official called it officially and that was the end of that.

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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [prattzc] [ In reply to ]
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prattzc wrote:
Michi just apologized publicly on Facebook to officials, Taylor Reid, and the RD.

RaelertFacebookPage wrote:
After my return from racing the Ironman 70.3 Silverman I honestly want to say sorry and apologize. I made a big mistake finishing the race in Henderson although I had seen a red card which means a DQ. I totally respect the rules of our great sport, the race and all participants. This is why I want to say sorry to the race organizers, the referees, Ironman and the Ironman 70.3 Silverman champion Taylor Reid from Canada. I’m an absolutely emotional but true pro athlete. I traveled the long way to the US because I really wanted to win this race in Henderson and I was shocked to get three blue cards and one red car due to drafting on the bike. With some days in between race day and now, I learned that I have made a mistake crossing the finish line. I would love to come back to Henderson next year to show a great race to say sorry to the race in person. Your Michi

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [flogazo] [ In reply to ]
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I still don't understand how a Top Level Pro can get 3 drafting penalties in a 70.3?
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Re: Silverman Raelart DQ? [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like 4 "mistakes" in one race to me (3 penalties plus finishing after dq). I don't see how that happened, you'd have to try pretty damned hard to get 3 draft calls in one race. Unless there's still something missing here. Why wouldn't you just take the time to explain what happened?
Last edited by: USPro Tri: Oct 19, 15 8:16
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