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So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle?
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The "Shorter cranks to be awesome thread" got me thinking. Please humour me! So you've changed to shorter cranks, say 165mm from 170mm for the sake of argument to allow you to drop your bars but maintain the hip angle, and hence be more aero, but so far haven't moved your saddle. You now have three choices for saddle height:
1) drop 5mm to maintain the knee angle at the top of the pedal stroke - this would seem silly as you have now negated the hip angle gain of the shorter cranks
2) raise 5mm to maintain the knee angle at the bottom of the stroke. This has the added benefit of further opening the hip angle at the top of the stroke (possibly allowing you to get even lower), but has the disadvantage of increasing your overall frontal profile and therefore increasing your aerodynamic drag (by a small amount)
3) leaving your saddle where it is, slightly changing the knee angle at both the top and bottom of your pedal stroke, but assuming the increased hip angle has allowed you to get lower without dropping power, and you haven't increased your frontal area, potentially this would be the best option?

I suppose it's a test and see situation, and depending on the exact factor that is limiting each individual will depend upon which is the best solution for them, but I wondered what the consensus was.
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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To maintain all the contact points you have to:

-Move the saddle up and back
-Move arm pads and bar back and up


However, I recommend just raising the saddle (5mm in your case) and keeping all the other touch points the same. At most, raising the bars by 5mm to keep the drop the same.
Last edited by: Nick B: Apr 20, 15 19:46
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, wasn't clear in my question (and it's hypothetical). I'm assuming the reason for going to shorter cranks is to open hip angle, which you will then close again by dropping the bars to make you more aero. ie, you went to shorter cranks to get more aero, whilst maintaining hip angle the same. However, that assumes no change in saddle height. If you now raise the saddle you will begin to close the hip angle up again, and also present a greater frontal area by 5mm. Dev was saying in the other thread that he can't detect a few mm difference in saddle height, in which case leaving the saddle where it is would make most sense to me? I'm not sure i'm being clear! Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud!!
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
If you now raise the saddle you will begin to close the hip angle up again, and also present a greater frontal area by 5mm.

Front area does not change as the seat height remains the same as well as leg extension.
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose that depends on the individual. If your shoulders are higher than your back then no, frontal area wouldn't change. If, though, your back is the high point then raising that will raise frontal area, no?
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe, but how many triathletes have that good of a position (haven't seen many outside of this site) where dropping them 0.5cm upfront makes them less aero?

Most people are going to benefit from shorter cranks (145-165mm) because they can run a much lower torso angle which correlated with being more aero.
Last edited by: Nick B: Apr 20, 15 22:22
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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Saddle height need to be raised by the same amount that you shortened the crank in order to maintain knee angle at the bottom of the stroke.

There is also the option of lowering the front end by double the difference, since the pedal at the top of the stroke is now twice the difference further away from the saddle and so hip angle is more open. Some people don't do this second part and instead just enjoy the extra hip freedom, others do it to gain additional aero benefits, it depends on your current needs.
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Nick B wrote:
rmt wrote:
If you now raise the saddle you will begin to close the hip angle up again, and also present a greater frontal area by 5mm.


Front area does not change as the seat height remains the same as well as leg extension.

It's true that the extended leg's frontal area remains the same but with shorter cranks the raised leg is more extended than it would be with longer cranks so the frontal area of it is increased a tad. Picture zero length cranks where each leg would be fully extended and expose their full surface area at once.


Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: So you've gone shorter cranks, what to do with your saddle? [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Nick,

Been thinking about this, especially the need to take the saddle back aswell as up. What I'm thinking is doesn't it depend a bit on the angle of the seat post/seat tube interface?

If you look at the different frames out there, the seat post adjustment "angle" can vary massively from frame to frame. Consider a classic P3C where the seat tube adjustment is almost vertical, vs a Speed Concept where the saddle adjustment is virtually "in line" with the bottom bracket. Guess you could say that if you "raise" the saddle on a SC you are effectively moving it back anyway, because of the angle! So I don't think it is incorrect to talk about moving the saddle up and back, but I wonder if some folks would miss this detail. Just had me thinking.






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