Pretty sure you're just making shit up. How many masters meets have you done?
I don't think IT is making shit up but, OTOH, he's prob never done any masters meets b/c he's afraid that faster swimmers will criticize him for being slow. I think he is ass-u-me-ing that this criticism will happen whereas really I've never witnessed it in any masters meets or in practices. Also, i think he is interpreting our commentary on the many "critique my stroke" threads as negativity when really we are just trying to help the OP who asked for it. As we've discussed many times, most experienced swimmers are very happy to help others who seem to be struggling. In fact, I find it hard NOT to say something when i see a swimmer doing stuff that is really dramatically wrong, and I often have to just restrain myself b/c otherwise i'd never get my own workout done:) "Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
How are you going to quantify "poor swimmers" in a race? A certain pre-requisite time?
I'll be honest - if those things are allowed in races (paddles, buoy, etc), the fast swimmers will use them as well. The whole pack picks up speed. Your placement doesn't change. So as far as races go, I don't think it makes a difference.
Besides, if you think giving paddles to swimmers with massive swim-specific strength is going to close the gap within the pack, you may want to go watch some swim practices. Might as well strap an outboard motor to their ass. Fins? Even better!
I do think you're giving lighter shoes too much credit. Do they help? Heck yeah, but as a cross country runner who has run far too many miles in 4oz spikes, I can say that the advantage over 5oz or 6oz or 8oz is not that significant. The best runner will win the race - racing flats won't take me 17:30 to sub 16.
You've missed the mark with these "rip on swimming" posts in that if these things are adopted, fish will use them and still cook the rest of the field handily.
Finally, I've spent my last 8 months surrounded by great swimmers (16:20 for 1650scy, 4:40 for 500scy, 100fly in 50.xx, 200fly in 1:50.xx). I've never heard the "picking on" you're speaking of. I've recieved great criticism from great swimmers, and I'm a better swimmer for it. "Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
Finally, I've spent my last 8 months surrounded by great swimmers (16:20 for 1650scy, 4:40 for 500scy, 100fly in 50.xx, 200fly in 1:50.xx). I've never heard the "picking on" you're speaking of. I've recieved great criticism from great swimmers, and I'm a better swimmer for it.
I keep wondering about these experiences of IT and the mean swimmers? When I exited tri and went to the pool I have never had so many helpful, fun people coax and push me along in my swimming. Maybe he just has really thin skin? Some people can't hack any kind of criticism and it needs to be all sugar cubes and cupcakes my cousin is like that....we all treat him like Stuart Smalley. I mean I didn't swim a day for half a year w/o having my coach and some fellow swimmers critiquing me and harping on the glaring issues in my stroke, but I was JACKED to finally be getting the right advice.
Finally, I've spent my last 8 months surrounded by great swimmers (16:20 for 1650scy, 4:40 for 500scy, 100fly in 50.xx, 200fly in 1:50.xx). I've never heard the "picking on" you're speaking of. I've received great criticism from great swimmers, and I'm a better swimmer for it.
I keep wondering about these experiences of IT and the mean swimmers? When I exited tri and went to the pool I have never had so many helpful, fun people coax and push me along in my swimming. Maybe he just has really thin skin? Some people can't hack any kind of criticism and it needs to be all sugar cubes and cupcakes my cousin is like that....we all treat him like Stuart Smalley. I mean I didn't swim a day for half a year w/o having my coach and some fellow swimmers critiquing me and harping on the glaring issues in my stroke, but I was JACKED to finally be getting the right advice.
Ya, I had kinda, sorta the same experience when I first started swimming with a masters group right out of college, at age 22. There were several guys who had swum for D1 schools and hence were very speedy. For me it wasn't so much that they corrected glaring errors in my stroke and gave me pointers every day, but rather it was that these guys had strokes that just looked so effortless, and i just kind of unconsciously absorbed their form just by watching them swim whenever i wasn't swimming, e.g. we did not all get in and start the workout together but rather it was a very informal masters group. Show up when you can and here's the workout. I would actually swim with 2 or 3 other guys maybe 2 days/wk and then the other 4 days were on my own. After swimming with these guys for about two years or so, the fastest guy of them all (44.X for 100 free) told me one day that my stroke looked really smooth now, and that i had come a long way in the past 2 years. I consider that to be one of the highest compliments i've ever received:) "Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
the masters clubs are great - if you have that option. I can't join the due to travel, and our small town has none. So that means public lane swims. Now those can be daunting at times and I have actually gotten in a few dust-ups due to unavoidable stuff (busy/congestion) and swimmers barreling-on through. Rare though.
Back to the chin block: There is a critical point in the stroke, post breath, that if your head is not in-line you lose speed immediately and have to pick it back up. It's like breaking out of streamline, but much more subtle. Using the block has shown me that intersect and as a result I keep speed through that zone. Instead of gaining clearance for breath, the priority becomes #1 keeping head in line with breath secondary. The fear of gulping water for some reason is gone. In fact I did scoop a few mouthfuls this morning at times, no big deal. Neck feels great, one goggle nicely planted below surface.
And for the flip turns. I still can't believe how important head position is in the flip turn, in that it seems to guide the entire process automatically. So by keeping a tucked, steady head, I am nailing the turns and coming off the wall with much less drag as a result. Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
IIRC, your wife is a swim coach, right??? What does she think of the head weight, chin block, etc??? I would think she would be the very best person to help you with your stroke, in person:) "Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
That's a good question/point to raise Eric. My wife is the "product" of Swim Canada, NCP(National coaching program?) or whatever it's termed. The program is solid, and being new I would say she is actually more progressive than a few coaches I have encountered. Her training under the Swim Canada program is excellent imo.
However, that type of training didn't mesh fully with my needs. I need to know why and where to focus e.g implement an "adult onset specific" dryland program, hydrodynamics, why we need to do what we do. Therefore the more sophisticated (nutty) needs of an adult learning to swim. Adults come into the game with several strikes against vs kids....
Kids 8-18, they jump in and just do. They are a clean slate both physically and mentally. After than it's onto UBC or UVic or whatever university club if they are elite enough to attend. I'm sure Jason or Albertan can elaborate on that. I know an Alberta record holder, lives/swims in Qualicum Beach.
Anyway, for me specifically - about the chin block coach said "you are burying your head". OK - that's perfect, because I am a deep-set swimmer. Most men are. The fact that my head is set low, means my tail is high and I am actually level/balanced. I would love to float high and be balanced like I have seen some people. But that is a key difference in head position - dense bodies (men) will be lower, I have noticed on average women ride higher & are fast!
I shot this little vid at the pool this week. TSUN Kids are having a good year. Some are hitting top 15 or 20 in Canada I believe.
That's a good question/point to raise Eric. My wife is the "product" of Swim Canada, NCP(National coaching program?) or whatever it's termed. The program is solid, and being new I would say she is actually more progressive than a few coaches I have encountered. Her training under the Swim Canada program is excellent imo. However, that type of training didn't mesh fully with my needs. I need to know why and where to focus e.g implement an "adult onset specific" dryland program, hydrodynamics, why we need to do what we do. Therefore the more sophisticated (nutty) needs of an adult learning to swim. Adults come into the game with several strikes against vs kids.... Kids 8-18, they jump in and just do. They are a clean slate both physically and mentally. After than it's onto UBC or UVic or whatever university club if they are elite enough to attend. I'm sure Jason or Albertan can elaborate on that. I know an Alberta record holder, lives/swims in Qualicum Beach. Anyway, for me specifically - about the chin block coach said "you are burying your head". OK - that's perfect, because I am a deep-set swimmer. Most men are. The fact that my head is set low, means my tail is high and I am actually level/balanced. I would love to float high and be balanced like I have seen some people. But that is a key difference in head position - dense bodies (men) will be lower, I have noticed on average women ride higher & are fast! I shot this little vid at the pool this week. TSUN Kids are having a good year. Some are hitting top 15 or 20 in Canada I believe. <
Ya, I saw that video when you posted it before. Regarding the kids being able to "just jump in and do", actually I have seen adults do this also. The best example i can think of is a 63-ish yo guy at my health club who had been sitting around the outdoor pool for like 20 yrs, just socializing and watching people like me swimming, and doing all his workouts in the weight room and running on the road. And then, all of a sudden, one day i come back from one of my extended out of the country trips, and this guy is actually swimming. He kind of swims like a kid too, arms turning over as fast as he can and taking about 29-30 str/lngth on a 25 yd pool. He does OK though, swimming around 1:40/100 scy at age 60, after about 3 yrs of swimming, which is not bad for taking up swimming at age 60.
In sum, i think it is prob your personality, not your age per se, that requires you to approach swimming as you do:) "Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Yeah will do. I tried to refine proto #1 this morning to more "swim" style but it didn't work out. The original block uses a neck strap which, based on what we know happens in the swim - could be dangerous. Wetsuits could be an issue as well, because I know the neck expands a lot during full output, so the strap tightens. I noticed this with my cycling neck koozie. You'd think this would make you light-headed but for me it doesn't, but it does impede breath intake.
So bottom line I need to design the strapping so that it can expand but also keep the block in place if you do lift your head/chin off it to peek ahead.
Observation from today's set - the head is the maestro of the stroke. It is the ground zero for all movement that follows. I suspected this years ago watching the top swimmers in the club. Also Jono Van Hazel's video sequence, it's as if his head is on a rail.
My practice videos show a up/down head movement, so I knew I needed to correct this. The unexpected result is just how much faster with correction - I'm talking 10% straight up. Not only the benefits I've described above but also I am getting much better purchase or hand anchor on the pull, very much like I am using a mini-paddle.
I did a swim clinic several years ago at McMaster University. One of things they had us do to establish good head position was a single arm drill with the opposite hand formed into a fist and wedged between the chin and chest (thumb to chest). It really seems to help to keep the head in fixed position. You can also use a tennis ball.
YEah! A triathlete agreeing with how important proper head position is! Check out this swimisode: http://www.theraceclub.com/...style-head-position/ Maybe with drills and practice, and low head position is achieved, a weight is not needed ?
I watched this a few weeks ago when the link was posted. I have now tried to work on this keeping the head down. So far, not easy. I had read somewhere in the past about putting a tennis ball under your chin and making sure you can swim with it tucked in which means you are keeping your head down.
Hmmm. yes, we've heard of that, but it doesn't work well for everyone. the ball is pretty wide in diameter, and people can hold it differently under their chin. It's not really realistic to get the idea of proper head position for you. Try wearing a monosnorkel and practice proper head position with sculling, drills and then swimming.
Here's the block I am using. My goto heat moldable EVA (we have sheets of this stuff..) with a one wrap velcro closure. I would like to use a googles style of strap but that didn't work out yesterday, I busted the strap. Needs a little clip setup on the back I guess.
Tennis ball wouldn't work for me, aa is too big. The urge to look up is very strong - who wants to pile drive into something? But at the end of the day that is what we are doing as swimmers - burrowing along in a very dense medium. Added note - there is a distinct difference for me in terms of swim posture a) forcing my chin against the block vs b) "trying" to maintain a lower head position
a) benefits b) no question, but I am much more disciplined using the block, for now at least.
