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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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Ga Tri Coach wrote:
And only do long sets of repeats on 5-10 seconds rest. Don't ever do race-pace quality work on longer rest intervals. Remember, yardage is king.

Ya, don't want to "waste" too much time in the pool, what with our 3-hr ride this pm, 45 min in the pool is plenty.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [Billyk24] [ In reply to ]
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Billyk24 wrote:
If it takes you 1 minute and 57 seconds to cover 25 yards with a kick board while kicking, should you continue? True case.

In that case you should probably just take up duathlons ;).

But yes, you should. If your kicking is that slow, it's probably pretty indicative of some other major flaws that are translating in to your stroke. Your kick is not isolated from the rest of your body. Maybe try kicking without a board. Arms streamlined in front, chest pressed down, breathe when you need to, then get back into that streamlined position. Focus on pressing your chest down to get streamlined, and see how your kicking feels, while trying to focus on a more hip driven kick, instead of maybe kicking a soccer ball or something.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
Billyk24 wrote:
If it takes you 1 minute and 57 seconds to cover 25 yards with a kick board while kicking, should you continue? True case.


In that case you should probably just take up duathlons ;).

But yes, you should. If your kicking is that slow, it's probably pretty indicative of some other major flaws that are translating in to your stroke. Your kick is not isolated from the rest of your body. Maybe try kicking without a board. Arms streamlined in front, chest pressed down, breathe when you need to, then get back into that streamlined position. Focus on pressing your chest down to get streamlined, and see how your kicking feels, while trying to focus on a more hip driven kick, instead of maybe kicking a soccer ball or something.

I much prefer doing a kick drill like this, rather than with a kickboard. I'm much slower with a board. I'll generally count to 6 before taking a pull/breath.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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What I love about entrenched wisdom is how it becomes necessary for people defending it to infer other things from a few simple sentences.

My little rant had nothing about pull buoys or paddles, which I seldom if ever use and never oversized. No mention of using a band (have never used one in my life, maybe I should?). Although I must admit, I love my Roka Sims (ya missed a shot there) and do half my sets in them, I am old and lazy.

But as I watch the same people (in Triathlon) doing the same things over a period of years and getting the same results, while coaches go on and on about the kick being the most important thing to making your stroke work. Forgive me if I laugh occasionally.

I have swum since being given a free membership in my local swim club at the age of seven, competitively at various ages, with emphasis on Breast stroke and IM. So I am familiar with all the drills (ok not all, just most) and all the strokes (with variations).
Almost no late learning swimmers ever get that level of water comfort that a child develops.

Few if any of late learners will ever get a kick worthy of mention (whatever way up they face), but they will slog away dutifully following some first class, State or National level swimmer, turned coach (I will assume you are at least that) who just doesn't get it they they will never get it. Instead of using that precious time to get them quiet and confident in the water, with a simple relaxed stroke that does not depend on a skill or ability they will never have.

So while all the studs go on about their 1:05 100m on 1:20, scm or lcm (who cares) yada yada yada. I watch the same AG competitors swimming 2:20 100's year in and year out, never getting faster, making as much splash as an outboard motor and the only thing they get out of it is clean feet. Because they are the bulk of swimmers out there and you lot aren't doing them a bit of good.

Thanks for making my race easier. I appreciate it.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [phog] [ In reply to ]
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phog wrote:
What I love about entrenched wisdom is how it becomes necessary for people defending it to infer other things from a few simple sentences.

My little rant had nothing about pull buoys or paddles, which I seldom if ever use and never oversized. No mention of using a band (have never used one in my life, maybe I should?). Although I must admit, I love my Roka Sims (ya missed a shot there) and do half my sets in them, I am old and lazy.

But as I watch the same people (in Triathlon) doing the same things over a period of years and getting the same results, while coaches go on and on about the kick being the most important thing to making your stroke work. Forgive me if I laugh occasionally.

I have swum since being given a free membership in my local swim club at the age of seven, competitively at various ages, with emphasis on Breast stroke and IM. So I am familiar with all the drills (ok not all, just most) and all the strokes (with variations).
Almost no late learning swimmers ever get that level of water comfort that a child develops.

Few if any of late learners will ever get a kick worthy of mention (whatever way up they face), but they will slog away dutifully following some first class, State or National level swimmer, turned coach (I will assume you are at least that) who just doesn't get it they they will never get it. Instead of using that precious time to get them quiet and confident in the water, with a simple relaxed stroke that does not depend on a skill or ability they will never have.

So while all the studs go on about their 1:05 100m on 1:20, scm or lcm (who cares) yada yada yada. I watch the same AG competitors swimming 2:20 100's year in and year out, never getting faster, making as much splash as an outboard motor and the only thing they get out of it is clean feet. Because they are the bulk of swimmers out there and you lot aren't doing them a bit of good.

Thanks for making my race easier. I appreciate it.

Who the hell says that the kick is the most important thing? No one I've ever talked to.

IT is important to develop the kick to the point where you can get out of your own way. After that, it matters at the elite level distance swimmer (elite swimmer, not triathlete) and if you're a middle distance or sprinter at any level.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
phog wrote:
What I love about entrenched wisdom is how it becomes necessary for people defending it to infer other things from a few simple sentences.

My little rant had nothing about pull buoys or paddles, which I seldom if ever use and never oversized. No mention of using a band (have never used one in my life, maybe I should?). Although I must admit, I love my Roka Sims (ya missed a shot there) and do half my sets in them, I am old and lazy.

But as I watch the same people (in Triathlon) doing the same things over a period of years and getting the same results, while coaches go on and on about the kick being the most important thing to making your stroke work. Forgive me if I laugh occasionally.

I have swum since being given a free membership in my local swim club at the age of seven, competitively at various ages, with emphasis on Breast stroke and IM. So I am familiar with all the drills (ok not all, just most) and all the strokes (with variations).
Almost no late learning swimmers ever get that level of water comfort that a child develops.

Few if any of late learners will ever get a kick worthy of mention (whatever way up they face), but they will slog away dutifully following some first class, State or National level swimmer, turned coach (I will assume you are at least that) who just doesn't get it they they will never get it. Instead of using that precious time to get them quiet and confident in the water, with a simple relaxed stroke that does not depend on a skill or ability they will never have.

So while all the studs go on about their 1:05 100m on 1:20, scm or lcm (who cares) yada yada yada. I watch the same AG competitors swimming 2:20 100's year in and year out, never getting faster, making as much splash as an outboard motor and the only thing they get out of it is clean feet. Because they are the bulk of swimmers out there and you lot aren't doing them a bit of good.

Thanks for making my race easier. I appreciate it.


Who the hell says that the kick is the most important thing? No one I've ever talked to.

IT is important to develop the kick to the point where you can get out of your own way. After that, it matters at the elite level distance swimmer (elite swimmer, not triathlete) and if you're a middle distance or sprinter at any level.

Jonnyo pretty well covered everything a triathlete needs to get to....tuck the legs in the back out of the way....the rest is largely not that important. I can barely do 50 min in 1:30 kick and have swam as low as 54:30 in Roth and 56.xx in Penticton, back when my engine was a bit bigger and my neck was not as messed up. Just a bunch of 20,000m weeks, high turnover and solid pull and 2 beat keeping the legs out of the way. That's a few moons ago when I was a lot younger, but still in 30-31 range for many half IM's recently even with really bad neck mobility.

Having said, that I tried what AJ said in the pool today and I was kicking faster. I'll time it next time and get back to you. If that translates into faster open swimming then fine, I'm all for it, but most of us are barely doing 0-3 hours per week of swimming.

Dev
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Re: TRIATHLETE: Use the Kick Board... Use it alot (not really) [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
Billyk24 wrote:
If it takes you 1 minute and 57 seconds to cover 25 yards with a kick board while kicking, should you continue? True case.


In that case you should probably just take up duathlons ;).

But yes, you should. If your kicking is that slow, it's probably pretty indicative of some other major flaws that are translating in to your stroke. Your kick is not isolated from the rest of your body. Maybe try kicking without a board. Arms streamlined in front, chest pressed down, breathe when you need to, then get back into that streamlined position. Focus on pressing your chest down to get streamlined, and see how your kicking feels, while trying to focus on a more hip driven kick, instead of maybe kicking a soccer ball or something.

it's also possible he just has a really poor kick.. I can't kick 25 yards with a kickboard, actually literally cannot kick that far.. but swim FOP at most races, up to Nationals..
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