mauricemaher wrote:
Hey Dev,
Like most I think I have way more questions than solutions, most of my questions surround the economics of testing.
IE what are the costs? Can you stream line testing and collection?
Can you collect a lot but only sample a few? (you could relate that to a speed trap in a school zone, maybe not too many get caught but everyone slows down)
Are the costs fixed, IE 1500$ per test no matter what?
I talked to the media guy from CCES (similar to USADA but in Canada) yesterday and he explained some of the logistics and some of the training of the people who conduct both IC and OOC testing.
Basically there are 500 people across Canada who do this, of that about 100 are DCO's or (doping control officers) they get paid a "certain" amount but are considered casual employees, the other 400 are volunteers or "chaperones". Basically at any one venue you will need at least one DCO and 2-4 "chaperones" It appears in Canada at least they still escort you from the finish (if it is IC) to control. I know at a few road races in the states (Sea Otter) they used to just post a list and it was your responsibility to get there, not sure if it still the same.
So basically with WADA now the only people who are allowed to conduct testing are the accredited bodies in the nation hosting the race (CCES in Canada and USADA in the U.S.) For example WTC couldn't just go train people and do it themselves (say like draft marshals in certain cases) WTC is tied to WADA protocol, in that case the athlete has certain rights (and responsibilities) which are meant to be observed world wide, IE in theory testing should be like Mcdonalds….You get the same service, and transparency and testing efficacy every where….in theory.
So for me the questions were around efficiency with testing, say if you have 2 HIM 70.3 one in Victoria one in Calgary. I was wondering if because there is a high likely hood of having all the trained DCO and chaperone people in both those cities (due to various national training centres), they don't have to pay travel etc….the cost or overhead of setting up the testing likely goes down by a lot say maybe compared to more remote venues.
1) So the question was wether or not the costs were fixed IE 1500$ per test no matter what, or wether the travel, labour and testing costs were calculated and then a bill was handed over to WTC or TRI Can or USAT (or USAC etc)
2) The other question was wether or not you could go through steps 1-4 (notifying the athlete, escorting them to control, sampling, then collection and paper work) but skip step 5 (actual lab testing) Basically is this against WADA?
To question 1, if the costs are separated (flexible cost structure….at the end you get a bill) and based on an accounting of labour, travel, lab work etc then maybe it makes more sense to have mare testing (using our Western Canadian example) at Calgary 70.3 and Victoria 70.3, if they are fixed….say at 1500$ per test…. then maybe you focus resources in Whistler.
To question 2, Is "over" collection a WADA violation, I don't think it is but I could be wrong (IE a high sampling rate vs a lower or targeted testing rate)
In the end the media guy was very nice but chose to defer most of my questions to "the manager of procedures and personnel"… I forwarded an e-mail with a bunch of questions, "the media guy" got back to me right away and indicated the above manager would be away until december 1st, sorry….like I say I have more questions than answers.
Having said that even if the costs are fixed, at say 1500$ per test. All it would take say at Whistler or any other IM would be for them to announce that when you sign the paper work for Kona, you will be immediately required to stay put and report to doping control, I don't think they need to test all 50 people, you could just have a budget for 5 tests (or keep it random 10 test at one race 5 at the next etc) and when all 50 people are present, you announce 5 names (perhaps targeted) and allow the rest to leave. The threat of testing before you take your spot…maybe the people who for some "mysterious reason" don't take take a KQ spot and aren't caught but at least they're out of the game for a bit….and perhaps they re-think their values, I also think that there are more than a few athletes out there who aren't "malicious or dirty" per say but might be taking vitamins, supplements etc which would put them in a "positive" situation…..this would also give those athletes time to reflect a bit.
I would love to see the roll down numbers for Kona if they did that ;-)
Maurice
I think the two most important aspects are the analogy of a speed trap in a school zone and whether you can oversample/over collect.
If you can set up the speed trap in the school zone, first thing that will happen is that you'll immediately deter the not so sophisticated doper from even showing up at your race. For example, let's say you have a not that sophisticated doper sitting in London UK today, and he has the option of racing IM Arizona or IM South Africa. Both are equally far, but he knows he can dope to the gills and race Arizona, but he can't totally go nuts for South Africa, because he's not an expert at what the half life is of these various drugs and what thresholds will still be in his system to trigger the "glow light" on race day. Well that guy will go to Arizona and not South Africa..."just in case". He knows there is a speed trap somewhere in the South African "school zone", but its a no speed limit autobahn in Tempe :-)
The second thing is economics of setting up said "speed trap". It costs some money to put the cops at the speed trap and th they can sit around and have donuts and coffee the entire time and everyone will be on good behaviour. I think oversampling at KQ races, national championships etc and you could literally test only 2 guys and girls all year and you still achieve a lot as the cost of "sending your cops with donuts and coffee" to the school zone. I am pretty sure that not every sample gets tested the way things are set up today anyway.
I guess the next thing from all those collected samples is do what Jordano said and target whose you want to spend the lab money on. While it is not out of competition, at least it is something. If the A and B sample tests positive, then the athlete gets a call, Triathlon Canada gets a call, and WTC gets a call to roll the KQ slot to the next guy...at which point they have to do an email rolldown after that fact, but that should be pretty easy to administer.
Bottom line is that the threat CAN go a long way. Busting a few guys from time to time will make the threat more real (to Jordano's point)....heck when I sign the sheet to go to Kona or 70.3 WC (I signed the latter in Oct), I'm even off poppy seed bagels....don't want a Karen Smyers style "heroine positive".