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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
klehner wrote:
Is nobody paying attention? If you are a member of USATriathlon, you can be tested out-of-competition at any time:

Quote:
The primary focus of the anti-doping program is on elite athletes competing in the Olympic discipline. As a USA Triathlon member you may be subject to testing at an event or even out of competition. While testing of age-group athletes is not common, it can happen and all athletes/members should be aware of their rights and responsibilities as it relates to anti-doping procedures. To learn more about the testing process and your rights and responsibilities as an athlete, please visit www.usada.org/testing.


WTC need not add any threatening letters to Kona qualifiers or anyone else.


This is great on paper, but completely useless in practice, and they even say in the quote "testing of age-group athletes is not common". Talk about waving a white flag! So yes, WTC could be doing more, as could USAT. Targeting a few pointy-end athletes for random OOC testing would be a start, and publicising this testing and the results on their websites and in USAT's magazine would help too. Anything to increase the perception that, as an AG athlete, you might face a random test. Because right now, the perception is that the only way you will be tested is by winning your AG at Kona or the Nationals, and that's not a drug policy, it's just paying lip service.

But again, neither USAT or WTC have a vested interest in busting a bunch of AGers. It could be damaging to the popularity of the sport.

Or, as Dan indicated, out of the fear of a major lawsuit by an accused Wall Street triathlete whose job is threatened by some positive finding.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [gantaliano] [ In reply to ]
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I often giggle when people use the "what's the point?" argument.

I can't understand dopers and doping is abhorent to me. However, I realize that for better or worse, not everyone thinks like me. I have learned through various management courses and life in general, that there are all sorts of people and all sorts of ways of thinking. My personal bugbear is religion. I cannot understand how people can believe in that stuff. I am clever enough to know that it's possible (but unlikely IMHO) that they are right and I am wrong. Therefore, I leave them to their beliefs and I stick to mine.

When it comes to doping of AGers, I can't understand why they'd do it. My only thought is that they are so weak of character, that they can't stand by their own failings, and will do anything to not fail. Society is partly to blame of course. We give so much cred to winners, that winning has become the holy grail and people will do anything just to win. And winning anything is good enough. Next it will be kids cheating to get an extra gold star from their preschool teacher.

Me? I am confortable that I'm not a winner at everything all the time. I am content to do my best and live with the result. Others are not. They are the ones at the T-Clinic. I pity them.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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Good attitude.

So, assume they tested everyone at some race, and found out they had 50 positive test results. Would they make them public to the detriment of the sport? I don't think so. We aren't the NFL. The NFL can do slipshod testing, pop a couple of athletes and survive just fine. If we have a doping scandal like pro cycling the sport might never recover. We might be going to races with 100 guys like we did in the late '70's and early 80's. I oppose doping but we should be careful what we wish for....Unless you want small races.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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I'd love to see the dopers popped and publicly shamed. I'd love to see 100 guys at races like the old days. Then I could finally crack the top 100!

I really don't see why a race with 2000 people (some of who aren't clean) is better than a race with 100 people that are clean.

Just think that the lines at the porta loos would be shorter. The swim start wouldn't be a re-enactment of the D-Day landings. Drafting would all but disappear. You could find your bike in T1. You could park next to transition. You could get a seat at the restaurant after the race. You'd know everyones name at prize giving.


I don't think dopers should be killed (mainly because killing is illegal and suggesting murder would probably have the Secret Service knocking at my door) but medical castration would be a fine alternative.

(some of the above should be pink, but I'm not sure what bits, so I've left it as is :-))

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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Re cycling: I think there is a significant issue with older geezer athletes and T therapy not fessing to it. I see some guys you can't find in earlier competitions now posting times not far from much younger age groups.
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [trekker] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, the whole T supplement thing gets me.

1. What count's as being low T? being less that the low end of the average range for your age? Being less than the max for your age? max for any age? max for WADA?
2. Once you're tested to being 'low' compared to any of the yardsticks above, what level should you be allowed to supplement up to? Up to the low level of 'normal range'? to the middle of the average range for your age? The max of your age range or the WADA max?

Me? I won't ever supplement for Testosterone. If I do, for bedroom performance, then I certainly wouldn't race. And I'd only supplement to slightly above the low side of average.

People who supplement T for a performance improvement are sad, pitiful, miserable losers IMHO.......but none of them care what I think.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
Or, as Dan indicated, out of the fear of a major lawsuit by an accused Wall Street triathlete whose job is threatened by some positive finding.

What if WTC kept all the drug findings private between the athlete and WTC? Because WTC owns the races and these are amateur races they can do whatever they want with regards to banning or preventing people from racing. My thought is that WTC does drug testing when you take a KQ slot and if you fail they refund your entry fee and shadowban you from WTC for X years. WTC is the judge, jury and executioner and it is kept private. This won't be as satisfying for the clean racers who want the cheaters named and shamed. At least it is something.
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Post deleted by eggplantOG [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: eggplantOG: Oct 30, 14 23:36
Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Kevin in MD] [ In reply to ]
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Kevin in MD wrote:
Nyquil contains dextromethorphan and doxylamine succinate - and a healthy amount of ethyl alcohol.

Can you find them on the list?
http://list.wada-ama.org/by-substance/#D-group


It hasn't contained decongestants for a while, maybe since sudafed got put behind the counter.

Lol dawg you'd be straight trippin like can't get anything done like some couch locked drunk trippy off a healthy dose of dxm you'd have to be crazy af to get on a bike and try to ride that thing 10ft let alone 112mi then robo walk your ass 26.2 miles lolol off some dxm 
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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tridork wrote:
I often giggle when people use the "what's the point?" argument.

I can't understand dopers and doping is abhorent to me. However, I realize that for better or worse, not everyone thinks like me. I have learned through various management courses and life in general, that there are all sorts of people and all sorts of ways of thinking. My personal bugbear is religion. I cannot understand how people can believe in that stuff. I am clever enough to know that it's possible (but unlikely IMHO) that they are right and I am wrong. Therefore, I leave them to their beliefs and I stick to mine.

When it comes to doping of AGers, I can't understand why they'd do it. My only thought is that they are so weak of character, that they can't stand by their own failings, and will do anything to not fail. Society is partly to blame of course. We give so much cred to winners, that winning has become the holy grail and people will do anything just to win. And winning anything is good enough. Next it will be kids cheating to get an extra gold star from their preschool teacher.

Me? I am confortable that I'm not a winner at everything all the time. I am content to do my best and live with the result. Others are not. They are the ones at the T-Clinic. I pity them.

I just needed to quote this one and the part in bold. I'll take it further...there is always someone way smarter, way better looking, way faster, fancier job-house, better family, better job, smarter and better looking spouse and kids. I think I am pretty content with the pecking order than I was placed in on all fronts and quite happy in my own relative skin. Or as we tell our kids, "does not matter about the other guys, just get the most out of yourself". So this is my summary, "I am comfortable, that I almost never win anything all the time and someone is always beating me....I'll just try to get as close as I can". It seems in many fronts in life, I'm like the 4-6th place guy (at least locally, be it in my school, city, company etc). Never the top dog, but biting at those guys to keep them sharp.

I either missed the last bit of genetics, or I'm not focused enough. I think it is more the latter than the former which I think is the case for many people (but hey, it is easier to blame our parents for crap genetics than blame ourselves for being lazy/less focused). The top guys just out work and out execute the also rans (so why the f*&K am I here on ST rather than running intervals of crunching an ROI presentatioin for work.....so in that sentence, I would think most of us have the answer on why someone beats us....the guys winning generally have more focus...sure there is the odd doper, but lots of clean guys who just beat us because they want it more)
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
Good attitude.

So, assume they tested everyone at some race, and found out they had 50 positive test results. Would they make them public to the detriment of the sport? I don't think so. We aren't the NFL. The NFL can do slipshod testing, pop a couple of athletes and survive just fine. If we have a doping scandal like pro cycling the sport might never recover. We might be going to races with 100 guys like we did in the late '70's and early 80's. I oppose doping but we should be careful what we wish for....Unless you want small races.

-Robert

There's the plus side to consider. I have spent lots of time and know the Panama City, FL area well, but am not interested in racing there because of the greater incidence of drafting. I would opt for more hilly races, even though I never get that awesome looking total time that a flat course can bring. Add to this, that I'm now 50+, the age where it feels even more tilted by T enhancements (possibly by guys who would have never even considered EPO or other "serious" or "real" doping), and I'm not interested in long course at all. That would change if I felt there was a level playing field, and so you pick up participants as well as losing some (or many).
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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All my life I've been able to pick things up and become average very quickly, with little effort. I've risen to higher level at things I like or things I work at. I was a ski pro for a while, but there are lots of skiers better than me. I doubt there are many people that enjoy skiing more than I do. I'm exactly MOP ironman (hit 50% of finishers at my last IM). I'm a better than average engineer, and a pretty good but not awesome husband and father.

Overall I'm pretty awesome. Others may be better than me at one or two things, but overall I rate myself pretty high, without being arrogant about it, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, back to being a slightly better engineer today......

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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I think this comes around to the exact point of amateur doping.

You said, "Overall I'm pretty awesome. Others may be better than me at one or two things, but overall I rate myself pretty high, without being arrogant about it, if that makes any sense" A person like you sounds fairly decently self actualized, in the sense that where others fit relative to you won't push you do to shady things. Not everyone is so comfortable in their skin and that ends up being the catalyst that pushes them to the wrong side. I bet you as a parent you're instilling the same values into your kids along the lines of,

"What the Jones' do don't matter....what matters is what you get out of yourself, with your effort....where you land in the pecking order is where you land depending on who shows up:"
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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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A friend of mine has a race car. He's just finished a week long tour around the south island of NZ, on closed roads, giving it heaps and having a blast. I used to really want a race car, but now realize I only have so much time and so much money, and a race car just doesn't fit in my life. I'm now relatively contented with that, and just enjoy giving him a hand with his car from time to time, and enjoying life vicariously through him.

Me? I'm just building a tree house at the moment. A couple of LaZboy chairs, small beer fridge, cable TV, slide into my pool and a couple of fold down beds. Great fun. My friend with the race car doesn't have a tree on his property, let alone one with a treehouse in it? I reckon we're about even :-)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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