If it is faster, it's not by enough to matter unless you're literally 5secs away from a podium or a KQ. Where wheels are at now, IMO, bigger factors are braking, rider comfort, and stability in cross winds.

I don't think so...but, what's the point? The "fairing" construction works fairly well and is inexpensive, plus is UCI.

Oh wait...the Zipp 60s (i.e. old 404 clincher) are still in production.

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Ah damn you have to buy something UCI compliant :/ that's no fun. Felt IA, Shiv tri, Plasma 5 in tri dress, and new Slice are out. You can order a UCI compliant cockpit on any of the Speed Concepts. P5-3 is an option if you can find one. New P2 (I think it's UCI compliant) built up as many recommend at the moment is a good option as well.

[pink]Well why didn't you say so?[/pink]

Well the P5-3 has been discontinued.

I think the Plasma 5 is done right since all you have to do is use the standard brake cover instead of the bottle to make it UCI legal.

That alone isn't even enough because some tires will make the RZR look faster than others will Zipp. So... where does all this lead us?

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I think it leads us to the fact that if your position is rubbish, no wheel/tire combo will save you. ;)

That, we can definitely agree on. LOL

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RIght: loose the bento and the front hydration. In that dress I'd imagine it's nearly identical to the P2/P3/P5-3/SC with UCI trim.

Scott say in TT trim the Plasma 5 is 5% faster than the Plasma 3 TT and we all know the Plasma 3 is a fast frame. You could certainly do worse for the price.

I'd second the question on why structural carbon matters for a wheel. HED Jets have been around for years and have proven durability in both triathlon and road races. Not to mention for many many years the old Cosmic Carbones were used in all types of road races and held up fine. This should be the least important attribute of the wheel that someone is looking to buy.

I rode the Cosmic Carbones for a number of years in the late 90's....they weren't good. Didn't corner for schitt and were pretty damn flexy (and I only weigh 150-155). Not particularly fun in a crit....

I know they improved later models, but as a result of my experiences, I prefer a structural carbon construction vs. a fairing.

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I have HED Jets, they are not flexy. Easily as stiff as my full carbon clinchers.

Don't doubt it....nobody ever complains about the performance of HED Jet's. Just saying that, based on my experiences, I'm gonna prefer a full structural carbon wheel over a fairing design.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

It is very possible is more a combination of rim width and spoke count than anything else that is causing the wheel to be flexy.

Oh, I think it was directly related to spoke count / wheel design. They basically took the existing Open Pro rim, reduced the spoke count by ~1/3 and slapped a fairing over the top. Of course the wheel is gonna be flexy!! I know that Cipo had his rear spoke count increased for his rear wheels later.

But, it highlights why I prefer a structural carbon design as a result. In order to address those issues, you need to add weight (either a beefier rim, more spokes or both). And while you may not get any massive performance benefit from it, I prefer a lighter wheel when racing. So if I am gonna drop some $$ on race wheels, I'll go with aero AND light where possible.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Hi Grill

Thanks for the comment. Yes, disc brakes have their place on a road and Tri bike, they are slower in the tunnel but that was using a standard mtn bike calliper. In time, the brake suppliers will work on making more aero designs. But if no bike brand even starts developing road disc or tri disc, then no one has reason to develop the rotors. callipers, etc to improve aerodynamic performance. Someone had to take the leap and Culprit took that leap. Due to manufacturing details partnering with another brand to share a mold for UCI legal and my non uci legal, I was not satisfied with the frame stiffness in riding it. so we have been back to the drawing boards for over a year and are working on bringing it out again next year in a new, revised version. The original legend and the future release Legend was designed with adaptors for rim brakes or disc brake set up. so there are no issues building with existing wheels or the wheels to come with the road disc movement. We hope to get the Legend launched again on kickstarter next year. Keep following us to learn more in time.