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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [Lock_N_Load] [ In reply to ]
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Lock_N_Load wrote:
I have done two Ironmans and I did the second 45 minutes faster than the first. The differences in order of importance were:

1. Fitness on the bike
2. Proper pacing on the bike
3. Proper nutrition on the bike and on the run
4. Proper pacing on the run

If your bike fitness is poor then you will have to be VERY conservative on the bike or your run will be a death march. You are too late for changing much in this area but know that in my mind this is the most important factor for a good IM run.

You also can't go crazy on the bike during your race. You need to find that sweet spot at a low Zone 3 (maybe high Zone 2) FTP or HR where you can diligently maintain through the entire race. This takes a ton of discipline but it pays dividends.

You must fuel properly on the bike and you must maintain electrolytes and hydration throughout the run. If it's hot you must stay hydrated and use ice at the aid stations to stay cool. This is a must if you have a hot day. If you don't cool your body down you are dead. I also found that, at least for me, Coke is magic. I took Coke every other aid station and it helped a ton.

Finally, after you transition out of the bike TAKE IT EASY. Walk for a bit if you have to, then jog, then settle into your race pace. Also, if you have to walk the hills, walk the hills. Do not take risks your your pace and effort early in the run, this is dangerous for your second half. Be conservative on the first half and then if you feel you have it in you push the pace.

I think if you take the above into considerations and if you have put in proper "big days" in your training you should do fine in your IM run. Good luck.

I agree with everything you are saying, but I am not entirely sure about the HR zone suggestions. Won't low zone 3 be much too hard for most people doing an ironman - especially their first one? They will burn up too much glycogen. I would think that mid zone 2 would actually be more reasonable for the bike and start of run, and if doing well on the marathon, kick it up a notch to low zone 3 for the second half if you have it in you.
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
What's a "full"? :)

Steve, A full is the name we should start using so less importance is given to a name brand.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [linhardt] [ In reply to ]
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+1 to linhardt's comment. I think this also helps you mentally by breaking it down into point to point goals.
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [manofbread] [ In reply to ]
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My advice: quit thinking about it so damn much. What you've got in the tank on race day...use that & go with it.

AW
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [AWARE] [ In reply to ]
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AWARE wrote:
My advice: quit thinking about it so damn much. What you've got in the tank on race day...use that & go with it.

I like this! My best run splits have been when I went by feel and had very little plan going into it. You obviously have to use some common sense starting out, but I think your legs and body will tell you what you have that day. 2 70.3's this year.... completely different results. It was clear in the first few steps out of T2 what kind of run I had in me that day. I paced accordingly. I don't see a reason to change that plan.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly THIS! The run "starts" when you enter the water. Your job is to conserve your running legs as much as possible during the swim and the bike.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
Fleck wrote:
What's a "full"? :)


Steve, A full is the name we should start using so less importance is given to a name brand.

I agree with giving "the brand" less importance, but I don't like the term "full" as it suggests doing less than 140.6 is something less than an entire triathlon...
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [ngless] [ In reply to ]
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well, you can call it what you want really. but we are so use to call a half ironman , ''half'' kind of make sence to call it a full!

but i m not attach to any names, i just think a culture change in the mentality of triathlete and population is needed some wtc get to ''own'' less of the sport and be more on there toes in providing quality product, care about athletes and also the development of the sport. I m not saying they are a terrible company...not at all, but it would be a healthier and more floorishing market for all of us if we allow competition between series and races.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [nickwisconsin] [ In reply to ]
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nickwisconsin wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
I have done two Ironmans and I did the second 45 minutes faster than the first. The differences in order of importance were:

1. Fitness on the bike
2. Proper pacing on the bike
3. Proper nutrition on the bike and on the run
4. Proper pacing on the run

If your bike fitness is poor then you will have to be VERY conservative on the bike or your run will be a death march. You are too late for changing much in this area but know that in my mind this is the most important factor for a good IM run.

You also can't go crazy on the bike during your race. You need to find that sweet spot at a low Zone 3 (maybe high Zone 2) FTP or HR where you can diligently maintain through the entire race. This takes a ton of discipline but it pays dividends.

You must fuel properly on the bike and you must maintain electrolytes and hydration throughout the run. If it's hot you must stay hydrated and use ice at the aid stations to stay cool. This is a must if you have a hot day. If you don't cool your body down you are dead. I also found that, at least for me, Coke is magic. I took Coke every other aid station and it helped a ton.

Finally, after you transition out of the bike TAKE IT EASY. Walk for a bit if you have to, then jog, then settle into your race pace. Also, if you have to walk the hills, walk the hills. Do not take risks your your pace and effort early in the run, this is dangerous for your second half. Be conservative on the first half and then if you feel you have it in you push the pace.

I think if you take the above into considerations and if you have put in proper "big days" in your training you should do fine in your IM run. Good luck.


I agree with everything you are saying, but I am not entirely sure about the HR zone suggestions. Won't low zone 3 be much too hard for most people doing an ironman - especially their first one? They will burn up too much glycogen. I would think that mid zone 2 would actually be more reasonable for the bike and start of run, and if doing well on the marathon, kick it up a notch to low zone 3 for the second half if you have it in you.

I agree with you. My bike HR target was mid Zone 2 and my target HR on the run was high Zone 2 to low Zone 3. I shouldn't have said "for the entire race". A low Zone 3 (once you have settled into a long-term pace) would be optimal for the run. One other thing. HR is great to also monitor for early symptoms of bonking. If your perceived exertion starts to climb but your HR starts to decline you must slow down and you must re-fuel. At this point you are most likely in need of an electrolyte boost and/or a shot of caffeine (cola). Do not ignore this situation. Slow down and make sue to regroup. If you don't you'll most likely bonk and then it's a death march.

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
well, you can call it what you want really. but we are so use to call a half ironman , ''half'' kind of make sence to call it a full!

but i m not attach to any names, i just think a culture change in the mentality of triathlete and population is needed some wtc get to ''own'' less of the sport and be more on there toes in providing quality product, care about athletes and also the development of the sport. I m not saying they are a terrible company...not at all, but it would be a healthier and more floorishing market for all of us if we allow competition between series and races.

Agree. I like the term "Full" for a 140.6. I like that better than "Ultra".

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [Lock_N_Load] [ In reply to ]
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Lock_N_Load wrote:
nickwisconsin wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
I have done two Ironmans and I did the second 45 minutes faster than the first. The differences in order of importance were:

1. Fitness on the bike
2. Proper pacing on the bike
3. Proper nutrition on the bike and on the run
4. Proper pacing on the run

If your bike fitness is poor then you will have to be VERY conservative on the bike or your run will be a death march. You are too late for changing much in this area but know that in my mind this is the most important factor for a good IM run.

You also can't go crazy on the bike during your race. You need to find that sweet spot at a low Zone 3 (maybe high Zone 2) FTP or HR where you can diligently maintain through the entire race. This takes a ton of discipline but it pays dividends.

You must fuel properly on the bike and you must maintain electrolytes and hydration throughout the run. If it's hot you must stay hydrated and use ice at the aid stations to stay cool. This is a must if you have a hot day. If you don't cool your body down you are dead. I also found that, at least for me, Coke is magic. I took Coke every other aid station and it helped a ton.

Finally, after you transition out of the bike TAKE IT EASY. Walk for a bit if you have to, then jog, then settle into your race pace. Also, if you have to walk the hills, walk the hills. Do not take risks your your pace and effort early in the run, this is dangerous for your second half. Be conservative on the first half and then if you feel you have it in you push the pace.

I think if you take the above into considerations and if you have put in proper "big days" in your training you should do fine in your IM run. Good luck.


I agree with everything you are saying, but I am not entirely sure about the HR zone suggestions. Won't low zone 3 be much too hard for most people doing an ironman - especially their first one? They will burn up too much glycogen. I would think that mid zone 2 would actually be more reasonable for the bike and start of run, and if doing well on the marathon, kick it up a notch to low zone 3 for the second half if you have it in you.


I agree with you. My bike HR target was mid Zone 2 and my target HR on the run was high Zone 2 to low Zone 3. I shouldn't have said "for the entire race". A low Zone 3 (once you have settled into a long-term pace) would be optimal for the run. One other thing. HR is great to also monitor for early symptoms of bonking. If your perceived exertion starts to climb but your HR starts to decline you must slow down and you must re-fuel. At this point you are most likely in need of an electrolyte boost and/or a shot of caffeine (cola). Do not ignore this situation. Slow down and make sue to regroup. If you don't you'll most likely bonk and then it's a death march.

Thanks for the follow up. Totally agree with you about the zones with your clarification.

The nutrition part on the run is still a bit of a question for me. On the bike it is much easier to monitor how much we are taking in since we carry our nutrition, but I eat at the buffet on the run. My tactic is usually a cup of perform at each aid station and depending on what point in the run or the heat, maybe add a cup of water or cola. I try to take in a gel or something similar nutrition wise every 45-60 minutes on the run. This has worked well for 70.3 but it might not be enough for a 26.2 run. I weight 157 and will be on run course 4 hours plus. Maybe gel ever 30 minutes?
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [manofbread] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know if you have already raced, but some of Bobby McGee's videos and podcasts on Triathlon Research have helped me a lot when it comes to run form, efficiency, and knowing the right things to focus on…
http://goo.gl/Z3smGI
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Re: Advice for the run on my first full [manofbread] [ In reply to ]
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drink and buffet on the bike going easy and start the run at the lower pace according to this chart go faster if you can once you reach mile 19.
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