Calendar
Retailers
Stack & Reach
Custom Geometry Calculator
Online Training Log
MAIN
INDEX
RULES &
LEGEND
LOG
IN
Search
this forum
this category
all forums
for
All words
Any words
Whole Phrase
(
options
)
Newsletter Signup
Slowtwitch Forums
:
Triathlon Forum
:
appeal race penalty thru USAT?
Tri Forum
Classifieds
Lavender Room
Jobs
The Womens
Print Thread
kmowlam
Oct 6, 08 8:58
Post #1 of 16 (683 views)
appeal race penalty thru USAT?
Can't Post
I was given a 4
min
penatly
during a race on saturday.
it was shown as drafting in the results (online results came out late last night), so i questioned it this morning.
then it was changed to riding too far on the left, but it
wasnt
blocking as there was no one around at the incident time.
contemplating appealing it thru USAT?
worth it, or just go on and forget about it?
h2ofun
Oct 6, 08 9:06
Post #2 of 16 (669 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Yep, unless there is a reason to not ride on the right side, it can be a penalty. Forget it, lesson learned.
Dave
MyAthlete.biz GPS
Bringing families into your racing
kmowlam
Oct 6, 08 9:09
Post #3 of 16 (658 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [h2ofun]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
understand, but have been doing this tri thing for few years now, and the only reason would pull out is for road conditions.
but i do partially agree with you, no lesson learned but forget about it.
thanks
h2ofun
Oct 6, 08 9:13
Post #4 of 16 (639 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I know once in a while I can let my mind not keep a good focus and I can drift out away from the right side, even with no riders around. At times like these, I could get hit with a penalty. So, letting it go is the best thing to do. Sorry for the call, none of us like to get a penalty in our hobby.
Dave
MyAthlete.biz GPS
Bringing families into your racing
Old and Haggard
Oct 6, 08 9:21
Post #5 of 16 (618 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I would suggest re-familiarizing yourself with the USAT Rulebook, especially the sections that deal with posting of results and the appeal process, and the definition of "blocking".
-----------------------------------
Ken Lehner
"reread klenher [sic] and pretty much skip the rest." - desert dude 5/25/2008
ianpeace
Oct 6, 08 9:44
Post #6 of 16 (584 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
USAT Rule "5.10 f. Position. Except for reasons of safety and when no advantage is gained, all cyclists shall keep to the right of
the prescribed course unless passing."
And I don't mean to put the chapter and section numbers in there to be an ass - the truth is, I had to look it up and I figured I'd legitimize it or make it easier to find.
More over, you have no choice but to let this one go because of this..."10.5 Time for Filing Protests. All protests must be filed in writing and submitted to the Head Referee within sixty (60) minutes after the person filing the protest has completed the event."
I find this rule a tough one to follow because I've been to many races where the timing folks are deeply challenge and can't get the times of the elites (and some early wave age groupers) up within that hour so there's no way those folks could even see if they have a penalty within the protest window.
Sorry to hear about the ding, sounds like you had a real stickler on the motorcycle.
Ian
Ian Murray
www.triathlontrainingseries.com a must see.
www.coachedrun.com/store/Marathon-1-P22C17.aspx used code.... ST108 for a free trial.
FLA Jill
Oct 6, 08 10:20
Post #7 of 16 (528 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Generally, errors in officials' judgement are not appealable in sporting events. And since this is how that penalty should be classified, it's a no-go.
Generally, the only time an appeal will work is if there was an error in fact, which generally works out to be you receiving a penalty or DQ because of a clerical error. (ie. something like allegedly providing an incorrect USAT id number when you did show card, and a race volunteer wrote it down wrong)
LazyEP
Oct 6, 08 11:43
Post #8 of 16 (421 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
You cannot appeal a judgement call (blocking, drafting).
You can appeal equipment, eligibility (age group), misapplication or misinterpretation of a rule (DQ issued rather than a time penalty).
It's the nature of ALL sport. You can disagree with the referee but reality is what the officials see & not the participants.
So you got pinged. BFD. You're wiser for it. It doesn't make you a bad person.
"It's not the age sweetheart. It's the mileage."
Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.
rdm
Oct 6, 08 11:52
Post #9 of 16 (397 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [FLA Jill]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
Generally, errors in officials' judgement are not appealable in sporting events. And since this is how that penalty should be classified, it's a no-go.
Generally, the only time an appeal will work is if there was an error in fact, which generally works out to be you receiving a penalty or DQ because of a clerical error. (ie. something like allegedly providing an incorrect USAT id number when you did show card, and a race volunteer wrote it down wrong)
Jill makes a good point. Verify with the head ref that it was you. Marshals are to write down things like bike, clothing, male/female etc. Might be a wrong number.
If you are not moving back to the right you should get the penalty. If road was superbad...well, judgement call like others have said. I wouldn't call that but if you moved over right after the bad road - fine.
Ideally, you would have talked to the marshals at the race. They are always available post race to talk about what happened.
Daremo
Oct 6, 08 11:56
Post #10 of 16 (391 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [rdm]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Did you lose out on prize money because of it or in some overall standing for a points series? If not, why worry about it .......
_____________________________________________
Rick, USAC Level 3 coach
'09 registered races - Columbia, Eagleman
Proud member of '08 Team Zoot Gu
rdm
Oct 6, 08 13:34
Post #11 of 16 (296 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [Daremo]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
Did you lose out on prize money because of it or in some overall standing for a points series? If not, why worry about it .......
As a coach, I think you'd understand - I think this person is trying to learn what they did or at least a way to appeal a penalty in USAT which is still learning.
The marshaling business would be a lot easier if coaches took the time to explain the rules to their athletes. A friend recently explained it like teaching a kid to play a game. Coaches teach skills, conditioning and rules. In triathlon right now...I believe coaches teach conditioning and not much on skills and almost zero on rules.
I think a person who worries about it now...won't have to worry about it when prize money is on the line.
kmowlam
Oct 6, 08 13:47
Post #12 of 16 (281 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [rdm]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
thing was i was in the medic tent for hour after race getting IV (that stuff sure is good).
also it never even occured to me to check for penalties as i am very opposing to drafting, etc in races.
it did knock me back one spot to 9th overall, there is no money but for me its principle of it.
dont know about all you out there, it just bothers me to think that someone would portray me as someone who would cheat in a race (whether meaning to or not).
I am at least trying to get the judgement changed from ''drafting' to the correct 'position'. i know that may sound stupid as it still is a 4 min penalty but i would feel better about it.
ianpeace
Oct 6, 08 13:57
Post #13 of 16 (264 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [rdm]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
Did you lose out on prize money because of it or in some overall standing for a points series? If not, why worry about it .......
As a coach, I think you'd understand - I think this person is trying to learn what they did or at least a way to appeal a penalty in USAT which is still learning.
The marshaling business would be a lot easier if coaches took the time to explain the rules to their athletes. A friend recently explained it like teaching a kid to play a game. Coaches teach skills, conditioning and rules. In triathlon right now...I believe coaches teach conditioning and not much on skills and almost zero on rules.
I think a person who worries about it now...won't have to worry about it when prize money is on the line.
RDM - extremely well said.
Ian Murray
www.triathlontrainingseries.com a must see.
www.coachedrun.com/store/Marathon-1-P22C17.aspx used code.... ST108 for a free trial.
alanhawse
Oct 6, 08 14:15
Post #14 of 16 (245 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
it did knock me back one spot to 9th overall, there is no money but for me its principle of it.
I think that you are right. It is the principle. The whole racing side of Triathlon exists only because of volunteers and/or slave labor doing their best to make events work. They are generally doing it because they love the sport. So I think that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were blocking.
Alan
Dead Horse
Oct 6, 08 14:42
Post #15 of 16 (212 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [alanhawse]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
So I think that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were blocking.
Not to be fussy, but one minor clarification - people are using blocking and position violation interchangably. They aren't. Position violation (AG'ers) is riding to the left when conditions would allow one to ride to the right. The marshall has observed you for fifteen seconds or more before the violation is noted. Blocking is an instantaneous violation - it's like a position violation where an athlete comes up behind you to pass and can't because you are riding to the left when you could have been, conditions permitting, riding to the right. But it's instantaneous...you blocked...so no observation of fifteen seconds or more required. Great comment about coaches should teach athletes the rules...it is more than s-b-r, food, and knowing how to change your clothes. ;-)
One cannot enlighten the unconscious.
Stuff that rocks: <fawning links here>
hlefler
Oct 6, 08 16:20
Post #16 of 16 (159 views)
Re: appeal race penalty thru USAT? [kmowlam]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
If the race was officiated by USAT officials, I would suggest contacting Charlie Crawford, the head USAT Official at
charlie@usatriathlon.org
. He gets the head referee's report within 3 days of the race of all USAT sanctioned races. He can request the head referee send him the information from the violation report (athlete identifiers as well as a description of the violation), As noted previously, you can't appeal the judgment call of the marshall but at least you will know why you got penalized and see if they got the right person. If it was self officiated check with the RD.
(This post was
edited
by hlefler on Oct 7, 08 6:14)
Print Thread
Off Season
What will you do in the off season?
Bike focus
MTB or 'cross
No training
Run focus
Swim focus
What offseason?
XC ski or snowshoe
MAIN
RULES &
LOG
